Brahmos Missile - News and Discussion

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jul 2001 23:42

Ashok Mehta ties up the loose ends on the Brahmos and shows how it is the path to MND for the IN. Please note his remarks about how the SCF is shaping up and the payloads dispersed. Appears that the IA and IAF will have the missile forces. IN will have Akulas on lease with Brahmos. <A HREF="http://www.dailypioneer.com/secon2.asp? ... t3&d=Edits" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dailypioneer.com/secon2.asp? ... d=Edits</A>

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 04 Jul 2001 04:26

Thanks Ramana for the link. The following is real news to me:>> As a stop gap, India is negotiating with Russia for the lease of at least two Akula class nuclear powered submarines. Indian crews are ready and trained to take over the submarines. The nuclear reactor of the submarine will be sealed and periodically inspected by Russian scientists. It is expected that the Brahmos, suitably augmented and adapted by BARC, would be fitted on the Akula. .

Nikhil Shah · Post by **Nikhil Shah** » 04 Jul 2001 07:01

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ramana: Ashok Mehta ties up the loose ends on the Brahmos and shows how it is the path to MND for the IN. Please note his remarks about how the SCF is shaping up and the payloads dispersed. Appears that the IA and IAF will have the missile forces. IN will have Akulas on lease with Brahmos. <A HREF="http://www.dailypioneer.com/secon2.asp? ... t3&d=Edits" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dailypioneer.com/secon2.asp? ... d=Edits</A> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Diwali is early this year!!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Jul 2001 07:21

A recent commentry by one Mr. Laskar in India Abroad says that by Russia providing the propulsion system it exposes the inability of DRDO to develop the propulsion of such high performance missiles(Bramos). How close is the capability of DRDO on this propulsion. Was Trishul a project to develop such propulsion? There is an elaborate mechanism being done to avoid all agreement such as MTCR etc in this Akula/Bramos deal. Now technically Bramos is an Indian Missile with a range less than 300 km. Also Akula nuclear propulsion will be sealed and maintained by Russia and will avoid any breach of NSG guidelines. What is the implication of inducting a sea based deterrance within 2004 in the overall geopolitics?

member_201 · Post by **member_201** » 06 Sep 2001 20:40

I had to take this thread out of the Mil-Tech archives to post this piece. Really very informative. I have also added this piece in the Indian Missiles News Folder.--------------------------------------------Russian long-range missile developments revealed at MAKS-2001 Aerospace ExhibitMoscow Nezavisimoye Voyennoye Obozreniye in Russian 24 Aug 01 [Article by Sergey Sokut: "A Long Reach for Aviation and the Navy"] One trend in the development of arms, which was vividly displayed at the MAKS-2001 air show, is increased attention to missile weaponry with enhanced ranges. That is wholly explicable. Contemporary surface-to-air systems and missiles in the air-to-air class leave an attack aircraft little chance of remaining whole, so all advanced weapons have to be launched outside the PVO [air defense] zone. This general law was manifested in the local conflicts of the 1990s and during the operation against Yugoslavia in particular, where short-range missiles and laser- and television-guided arms demonstrated relatively low effectiveness.MAKS-2001 showed that work to create a long reach for aircraft and ships is becoming more intensive in Russia. This was confirmed in a discussion with an NVO correspondent by the Air Force Deputy C-in-C for Armaments, Lieutenant General Yuriy Klishin, according to whom weaponry will be the focus of attention in the second phase of modernization of Russian aviation.The New Look of the YakhontMuch information was presented at arms exhibitions in 2001 on systems in development of the Oniks-Yakhont line of anti-ship missiles (PKR), which were developed at the Machine Building NPO [Scientific Production Association] FGUP [Federal State Unitary Enterprise] (Reutov, Moscow Oblast). The former started to be created back in the USSR to arm prospective attack submarines [APLs] (for the Severodvinsk APL that was under construction, for example) and surface vessels. The latter was planned as the export version.The principal merit of missiles in the Yakhont family is their supersonic flight speed, making the missile almost invulnerable to contemporary air defense weapons. The PKR is equipped with an autonomous inertial guidance system with a navigational system and a radar homing head. The three-ton Yakhont is able to hit a modern battle cruiser-class vessel at a range of up to 300 km with a warhead of 200 - 300 kg. A few missiles can destroy an aircraft carrier.Shore-launched Bastion missile systems with the Yakhont missile debuted at the exhibition at Le Bourget. The first of these is mobile. It includes four self-propelled launchers (SPUs) using the MAZ chassis, a combat command and control vehicle, guidance apparatus and, where necessary, a helicopter target designation system. Each SPU carries three Yakhont missiles, and can go from travel to combat status in five minutes. The systems can be on alert duty in field terrain for 30 days (including in mountainous areas), at a distance of up to 50 km away from the shoreline.The fixed version of the bastion presumes the placement of the missiles in silos reminiscent of those in which the ICBMs are placed. Each system can include up to 36 missiles controlled from a protected command post, and is able to monitor areas of up to 280,000 square kilometers of water. The target designation for the silo-launched Bastion comes from a shore-based sea monitoring system. The merit of this version is that it is highly protected against enemy action. The task of defeating missile silos using conventional weapons has not been solved at this point, or it entails unacceptable losses to the attacking side.Information on the air-launched Alfa weapons system with the Yakhont-M missile was made public for the first time at MAKS-2001. It is intended for the defeat of surface ships of various classes that are operating either part of task forces or singly. According to NVO information, roughly 50% of the work on the design engineering of the new missile has been completed. It is assumed that as many as three Yakhont-M missiles will be placed on the Su-30 multi-role fighter, the most likely platform for this weapon. It is important to note that the airborne version of this missile can seek out targets by itself, which markedly expands the list of platforms for the new missile.Moscow Plus BrahmaputraBut not only Moscow is developing the Oniks-Yakhont line today. One of the sensations of MAKS-2001 was the BraMos missile (an abbreviation symbolizing the merging of the Brahmaputra River and Moscow), which was being presented at the show by a joint Russian-Indian venture of the same name. It was created in 1998 in accordance with government decisions in Moscow and New Delhi. Its founders were the Defense Research &Development Organization (DRDO) of the Ministry of Defense of India and the Machine Building NPO. The latter has been given an unprecedentedly long time - seven years - to execute this project, with the right to enter into military-technical collaboration with foreign countries independently.BraMos Executive Director, Dr. A.S. Pillai, told the NVO correspondent that by creating their venture, the two sides were trying to combine the work in progress, technology, and capital of the two nations in development of programs not limited by the missile technologies control regime. The firm has obtained a significant amount of credit for the creation of the new system: $122.5 million from the Russian budget (under the 'International Activity' section for 1999) and $128 million from the budget of India.The shareholdings in BraMos have been distributed in roughly the same proportion. The business plan of the enterprise was largely determined by the fact that the legislation of India makes it possible to utilize the funds being invested much more efficiently. In particular, the enterprise will not pay taxes until the credit has been paid back. In the estimation of Machine Building NPO head Gerbert Yefremov, the intensity of development of the missile has increased approximately ten-fold since the organization of the joint venture.BraMos procured the principal portion of its technologies from the Machine Building NPO. The Indian specialists, according to Dr. Pillai, are refining the control system and software. In the course of series production, which will begin in 2003, BraMos will obtain roughly half of the missile components from the Strela NPO in Orenburg, and the rest of the components (the electronics in particular) from Indian subcontractors. The capacity of the plants will make it possible to put out up to 200 missiles a year.The missile (called the PJ-10 in the Indian press) is in the flight testing stage. Its first launch took place on 12 June 2001 at the Chandipur test range, in the state of Orissa. The principal customer for the missile is the Indian Navy. What is more, BraMos has forwarded to the Indian Air Force (IAF) a proposal to install the PJ-10 on the Su-30MKI multi-role fighters that are being procured from Russia, and they will be put out under license at a plant of the HAL Company.The head of BraMos did not rule out that the new missile will be procured by the Russian Ministry of Defense as well. For those who know the real capabilities of our military agency, this prediction seems a bit optimistic. Something else is more important - BraMos, according to Dr. Pillai, will be selling the PJ-10 to third countries friendly to India and Russia.This, judging by everything, is one of the principal gains for Russia. India enjoys greater influence in Asia, and can promote the new missile in those market where Russia is not yet well received. At the same time, the PJ-10 could become a competitor to the Yakhont in some cases. This situation bothers all the participants in the creation of the new system, the more so as there are evidently no agreements to delimit the market between them. Dr. Pillai assumes that the BraMos, as opposed to the initial version of the Yakhont, will be universal, insofar as it can hit not only ships but also radio-contrasting ground targets such as petroleum tank farms. At the same time, the head of BraMos stated that no serious frictions will arise between the partners.There is every reason to hold this opinion. Of course, the transfer of technologies to a potential competitor in the market would have been a mistake 15 year ago. But the situation has changed fundamentally today. Under conditions of a lack of investments and the imperfections of Russian legislation, it is better to share with a partner than to be left with nothing. The more so as some Western nations, having realized the advantages of supersonic PKRs, have stepped up their programs to create them. Something else is what is important - Russia, based on the example of the BraMos, is mastering the techniques for the advancement of larger international military-technical projects.[Rakesh's Note: I don't know why the press refers to BrahMos as Brahmputra plus Moscow. It is not Moscow AFAIK, it is Moskva - a Russian River! Makes sense to group two rivers together and not one river and one city.]The Sinister 'Raduga'One of the sensations of MAKS-2001 was the new Kh-59MK PKR, developed by the Raduga MKB FGUP (Dubna, Moscow Oblast). It is designed on the basis of the widely known Kh-59M missile, which is the principal weapon of frontal aviation to defeat especially important ground targets. As opposed to its primogenitor, which is equipped with a television command guidance system, the Kh-59MK carries an active radar homing head.The replacement of the booster with a fuel tank made it possible to increase its range from 115 to 285 km. The shortcomings of the missile include its subsonic flight speed, while its merits include the well-tested nature of the base model, the power of the warhead - 320 kg - and the lesser cost than the supersonic systems. In the estimation of Raduga specialists, the likelihood of hitting a cruiser or destroyer is 0.9 to 0.96, and a smaller craft 0.7 to 0.93. One missile is sufficient to destroy the small craft therein, while the nominal average number of hits to destroy a cruiser or destroyer is 1.8 and 1.3 respectively.The Kh-59MK has completed ground testing, and will go into production in the event interest in it appears on the part of foreign customers. The latter is extremely likely, insofar as the initial system - the Kh-59M - is in service with the Su-27 family of fighters that are supplied to China and India. New information on this missile was also presented at MAKS-2001. It was reported in particular that the Ovod-ME set of missile weaponry could include the Kh-59MK missile with an armor-penetrating warhead of 320 kg or a cluster warhead of 280 kg. Both versions of the Kh-59 have a comparatively small mass at 930 kg, which makes it possible to hang as many as five missiles on an Su-27 fighter.Information was also presented at the Raduga exhibit on a new version of the well-known Moskita. The 3M-80Ye1 missile has reduced range (100 km, compared to 120 km for the 3M-80Ye version), but on the other hand it is lighter (3,970 kg versus 4,150). Unfortunately, the developers refused to provide any information on the customer for the lightened Moskita. The ban on divulging information on the airborne version of missile remains in effect as well.Secret News From NovatorA sensation of MAKS that did not take place was also associated with the problem of secrecy. Few of the visitors paid any attention to the presence of the Novator KB [Design Bureau] as part of a combined exhibit with Sukhoy. That is surprising in and of itself, since the KB from Yekaterinburg has never yet displayed any weapons for fighters at air shows.A question from the NVO correspondent, "Why are you participating in the Sukhoi exposition?" clarified the situation, but not entirely. Novator actually intended to show something completely new at Zhukovskiy, but these exhibits were pulled from the exhibition list at the last minute out of security considerations. The representatives of Novator refused to communicate the details of the incident, but it may be assumed that airborne versions of the 3M-54E or 3M-54E1 of the Klub system, which today arms the submarines and new frigates of the Indian Navy, were supposed to be appearing at MAKS.[Rakesh's Note: Div...my Klub comrade-in-arms, are you thinking what I am thinking? Hmm?

]The main "selling point" of the 3M-54E is its great flight range (220 km) at subsonic speeds, while switching to supersonic for the last 20 km to the target. The 3M-54E1 version does not possess that property, but on the other hand it has a range of up to 300 km and a more powerful (300 versus 220 kg) warhead. Missiles were being created within the Klub systems to fire against ground targets, and there is a keenly felt scarcity of such missiles for contemporary Russian aircraft.Another version of the exhibit not permitted into the exhibition is no less odd. Information leaked to the press at the beginning of the 1990s regarding the KS-172 missile (the AAM-L according to American classification) developed by the Novator SMKB. The experts estimate its range at 300 - 400 km. By way of comparison, the longest-range existing missile in the air-to-air class is the American AIM-54 Phoenix, which can be fired from 185 km. The exhibits at the MAKS-2001 air show as a whole show that the Russian weapons makers are leaders in the area of creating anti-ship cruise missiles. Transferring the experience and technologies of anti-ship warfare to the sphere of weapons for the destruction of ground targets is becoming a topical task.[ 06-09-2001: Message edited by: Rakesh Koshy ]

member_201 · Post by **member_201** » 06 Sep 2001 21:17

Has this been posted before?India's supersonic cruise missile <A HREF="http://www.flonnet.com/fl1813/18131300.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.flonnet.com/fl1813/18131300.htm</A>[ 06-09-2001: Message edited by: Rakesh Koshy ]

member_3244 · Post by **member_3244** » 07 Sep 2001 02:26

Question? How different is the guidence system developed by India for BrahMos from other missiles like Akash or anyother that can be compared. If they are'nt way off, or can be modified for other similar missiles, then why is that Trishul is tending towards failure!!

member_3244 · Post by **member_3244** » 07 Sep 2001 02:46

<A HREF="http://www.flonnet.com/fl1813/18131300.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.flonnet.com/fl1813/18131300. ... BR>missile travels in a parabolic arc: takes off in the atmosphere, flies into space and re-enters the atmosphere to hit the target. ... If it flies into space, why is the range restriction of only 300?

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 07 Sep 2001 03:08

Q: why is the range restriction of only 300? A: MTCR

member_2950 · Post by **member_2950** » 07 Sep 2001 04:02

Read it again dude..."BrahMos is called a cruise missile because it cruises horizontally and travels only in the atmosphere. A ballistic missile travels in a parabolic arc: takes off in the atmosphere, flies into space and re-enters the atmosphere to hit the target. "BrahMos is a cruise missile while a ballistic missile like Prithvi flies into space and re-enters to hit the target.

member_3244 · Post by **member_3244** » 07 Sep 2001 05:07

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nishant: Read it again dude..."BrahMos is called a cruise missile because it cruises horizontally and travels only in the atmosphere. A ballistic missile travels in a parabolic arc: takes off in the atmosphere, flies into space and re-enters the atmosphere to hit the target. "BrahMos is a cruise missile while a ballistic missile like Prithvi flies into space and re-enters to hit the target.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>-you bet. I did. thanks

davidn · Post by **davidn** » 07 Sep 2001 13:35

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sai R Krishna: Question? How different is the guidence system developed by India for BrahMos from other missiles like Akash or anyother that can be compared. If they are'nt way off, or can be modified for other similar missiles, then why is that Trishul is tending towards failure!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>two systems are totally different. Simply put, one is an offensive system the other a defensive. Its much easier to make the guidance for the Agni and Privthi because their targets dont move. They are also not as accurate as cruise missiles, since its taken for granted that even if its slightly off the mark, the nuke warhead will do the rest. But the Akash and trishul is more complicated as they have to have precise algorithms etc. which enable them to hit a relatively tiny object moving at thousands of kilometres an hour. Obviously it will be harder to hit a small, high speed object than a set of non-moving coordinates. picture trying to hit a tree with a rock, and trying to hit a flying sparrow with a pebble. Its about the same ratio of difficulty as the missile situation. Trishul must be extremely accurate since its a short range quick reaction system.[ 07-09-2001: Message edited by: davidn ]

Bharat Rakshak

Brahmos Missile - News and Discussion

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