Please explain why timing is perfect.The timming is perfect -as the 123 agreement is reaching the make or break stage in washington
-Is it going to make the deal?
- Or break??
IMO testing has nothing to do with 123 agreement
Its all related to credibility and POKII tests. Thanks to the US questioning the 1998 yields there is a credibility issue for high yield lightweight payloads with India. Now totalitarian states need more deterrence than democratic states. Hence PRC wont belive that a AIII with a lightweight payload will do the needful. Therefore to convince the PRC India has to field a heavyweight payload capability. It is another matter what they put in it.kmc_chacko wrote:So if A3 will have range around 5000+ then what is the problem in declaring it or DRDO is looking at A4 a new missile to be developed on A3 with much more range & technology. Many experts opinioned that A3 have range excess of 5000+ & because of political reason they are not disclosing it.
will A3s upgraded or modified version will be Sagarika series SLBMs ?
Ramana guru hits nail on the head.ramana wrote:Its all related to credibility and POKII tests. Thanks to the US questioning the 1998 yields there is a credibility issue for high yield lightweight payloads with India. Now totalitarian states need more deterrence than democratic states. Hence PRC wont belive that a AIII with a lightweight payload will do the needful. Therefore to convince the PRC India has to field a heavyweight payload capability. It is another matter what they put in it.kmc_chacko wrote:So if A3 will have range around 5000+ then what is the problem in declaring it or DRDO is looking at A4 a new missile to be developed on A3 with much more range & technology. Many experts opinioned that A3 have range excess of 5000+ & because of political reason they are not disclosing it.
will A3s upgraded or modified version will be Sagarika series SLBMs ?
So it is necessary for credibility of deterrence that if DRDO says the range is so much and they tested it to that then that is accepted. To convince others(PRC) there is a need to show a three stage vehicle with 1.5 t capability to over 5000km.
Shankar,
What you say is very apt for understanding the geopolitical game and pecking order.
Please post in the Foreign Policy thread and will reply there.
Here is some more information:Shankar wrote:.. . . Even if we assume the range of agni 3 is 3500-5000 km (which is very very unlikely from all the technical evidence it is capable of 8000+km with reduced payload) still it is capable of sanitising almost entire indian ocean ,middle east ,central asia,china and far east.
Agni 3 is a flick of indian ICBM capability carefully veiled so as not to alarm all but a message to those who matter
1500 kg -3500 km also translates to 500 kg and so many km without any modifications and world already knows it
look at the flight profile and compare it with that of a minuteman 3 and topol m and the answer is crystal clear
It is too similar to be a co incidence except a 3rd stage . This one is a 8000+ km bird and next one with third stage will surely be what we want it to be
pakistan and china on the nuclear front was countered long back -it is now turn for the others to be weary of indian might -not just economic
While I agree with sentiments of above post, but Chinky knows that 250KT in 3x MIRV package is more devastating compared to a 2 MT potato. All that is required is quickly complete 4 full yield 300KT weapon with IA and IAF personell exercisizing the complete nuke chain from zero to Air-Force One.Multatuli wrote:Both Ramana and Shankar brought up the issue of credibility of the Indian H-bomb : I think the only way the dispel the doubts on the H-bomb is the detonate a 2 to 3 megaton H-bomb, not just once but three or four times. This could be done in one of the islands in the Indian ocean. I personally also doubt that India has mastered H-bomb technology, at most they can design a boosted fission A-bomb.
Jingoism will not deter Chinese or American aggression, nor can you flatten a city like Shanghai or Los Angeles with jingoism. Only a 3 or 4 megaton H-bomb will. Potential aggressors should have no doubts about the yield of the Indian nukes to or the range of Indian delivery systems for them to have deterrence value.
This is again based on the premise that they will measure it accurately or report back accurate figures. That is not the way it works.Multatuli wrote:Well, then detonate three or four 300 kiloton nuke boms, in such a manner that Americans, Europeans and Chinese can measure the yield and quickly demonstrate MIRV technology.
Pls read:joey wrote:What is the payload capacity of M51 missile at 8000 kms range? and the DF 31?
Effect of fabrication technology on weight
For a given range and payload the MTOW (Maximum
Take-Off Weight) of missile is largely dependent on
rocket motor’s MF(Mass Fraction) and number of
motor stages. The fuel’s ISP (Specific Impulse) is also
important, but all modern long range missile use solid
fuel thus they have similar ISP. Indian solid fuel
chemistry choice however has better growth potential
compared to US fuel standardized for Space-Shuttle
SRB (Solid Rocket Booster) 4 . Motor’s fuel mass
fraction is the single most important factor in
determining the weight of missile, especially those
designed for 8,000 to 18,000 Km range. A case to
point is the recently tested French M51 submarine
launched missile5. The 56 tonne M51 has 3 stage and
all three motor cases are made of carbon-carbon fiber
composite material to maximize the fuel mass fraction
so the missile can fit into current launch tube of
French nuclear submarines6 carrying the M41 missile,
yet it carries 50% more payload over 50% more range.
The M51 missile’s range is 9,000 km for 6 MIRV
payload (1,400 kg including penetration aid). Yet the
same missile delivers full ICBM range (20,000 km) for
configuration with fewer (2) MIRVs providing flexibility
to France.
Cut the crap about boosted fission device psyop unless you can substantiate it with something more tangible than gut feel.Multatuli wrote:As matters stand now, there is doubt about the yield of the boosted fission device India tested,
As you have saidMultatuli wrote:Vinayak and Disha, it's entirely possible that even after India tests a round of
300 kiloton bombs, the US will still deny in public the yield given bu Indian scientists and the yield measured by the Americans themself. However, the point is that their defense analysts, intelligence, military and key politicians will privately know better. They may and probably will, indulge in propaganda but that's not important because you ( India ) will know that the Americans and Chinese know better. As matters stand now, there is doubt about the yield of the boosted fission device India tested, there is also doubt about the ability of India to field 300 kt nuclear weapons. These doubts have to be dispelled comprehensively. Furthermore the most important thing is that the Indian military, defense scientist and analysts will know for certain that the boms actually work.
And since we already know better and also know that they know and also that they know that we know that they know, there is no point in "dispelling comprehensively" anything.Multatuli wrote:You ( India ) will know that the Americans and Chinese know better
I am having nothing personal against him. He is talking like a person dealing in vegetable market where the fresh ones are favoured. I appreciate if he could develop better sense for defence matters as it is better for general public becoz they are ones who read his article with interest caused by act of sensationalism.Ajai Shukla wrote:Now on to Tejas. Let’s get one thing clear: as a weapon system for the fighting forces in the field, the Tejas is a dud. Why do I say that when (contrary to some uncharitable comments!!) I know that some of its technologies are cutting-edge world class. It’s the most simple military logic: because if it comes to war today, the Tejas is not available to fight, and regardless of what many would like to believe, it will not be available to fight effectively even three years from now. What is needed to be delivered to the IAF is not the comforting knowledge that Tejas has the highest percentage of composites in the world. What they need is a functional weapons platform at the promised time. If the IAF chief has to write to the Defence Minister that by 2017, the IAF and the PAF will have the same squadron strengths, it is because the Tejas is far behind schedule in delivery.
Absolutely stunning photos.. Now after looking at these high resolution photos, I am inclined to believe that the cloud around the base of the RV during lift off is due to the venting of those maneuvering motors.. Well.. well.. the pics tell everyone whom they want to tell , that Agni III has a maneuvering Re-entry Vehicle!!
You add the wt of 3rd stage and you have a trident clone in indian navy inventoryTrident II (D5) UGM-133A
The second variant of the Trident is more sophisticated and can carry a heavier payload. It is accurate enough to be a first strike weapon. All three stages of the Trident II are made of graphite epoxy, making the missile much lighter. The Trident II was the original missile on the British Vanguard and later Ohio SSBNs.
Characteristics
* Purpose: strategic nuclear deterrence
* Contractor: Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Sunnyvale, California
* Unit Cost: $30.9 million
* Propulsion: three stage solid propellant
* Length: 44 ft (13.41 m)
* Weight: 130,000 lb (58,500 kg)
* Diameter: 83 in (2.11 m)
* Range: 12000 km (7,500 statute miles)
* Maximum speed: 29,030 km/h (18,000 mph)
* Guidance system: inertial, with stellar sensor update
* CEP: 300 ft (90 m)
* Warhead (in USA usage only): nuclear MIRV. Up to eight W88 (475 kt) warheads (Mark 5) or eight W76 (100 kt) warheads (Mark 4). Non nuclear MIRV. 4 Kinetic reentry warheads
* Date deployed: 1990
I would rather see you promise the weight equivalent to the yield of the warhead, and then hope DRDO places a city buster on the missile.Singha wrote:Rudra promises the day we see a indian sub launch a SLBM I will distribute kaju barfi of weight equal to that of payload of the missile.
what a magnificent sight it will be !
All you guys who make such promises, PLEASE make sure that there are some sugar free sweets too............ promises the day we see a indian sub launch a SLBM I will distribute kaju barfi of weight equal to that of payload of the missile.
what a magnificent sight it will be !
Insha Allha.see a indian sub launch a SLBM
I have also purchased the 2 PTI photos (including the one being referenced above, and the one huffing on launch ) , awaiting it receipt in a week or so.vina wrote:Absolutely stunning photos.. Now after looking at these high resolution photos, I am inclined to believe that the cloud around the base of the RV during lift off is due to the venting of those maneuvering motors.. Well.. well.. the pics tell everyone whom they want to tell , that Agni III has a maneuvering Re-entry Vehicle!!