Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1729 ... 36348?s=20 ---> Acoustics India Private Limited has been selected as the 𝗦𝗲𝗻𝗶𝗼𝗿 𝗗𝗼𝗺𝗮𝗶𝗻 𝗘𝘅𝗽𝗲𝗿𝘁 for providing the technical assistance for Integration of Kaveri Engine in a LCA aircraft. The bid price is: INR 49,39,610 Rupees. Timeline: Time of Contract + 2 Years.

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1729 ... 74854?s=20 ---> They will carried out the following work as well:

* Review and updating Aircraft Requirement Document (ARD), Deriving and coordination of Propulsion System Requirement Document (SRD): Time of Contract + 3 months.

* Preparation of Engine-Airframe integration architecture for AMCA and TEDBF Identification of critical LRUs for Indigenization: Time of Contract + 6 months.

* Prepare technical requirements for indigenization of LRUs. Coordinate with external stake holders for finalization of design configuration, accordingly documentation and release: Time of Contract + 9 months.

* Prepare Interface Control Document for AMCA and TEDBF, Continuous up keeping of this documentation: Time of Contract + 12 Months.

* Prepare Technical Requirements for Propulsion system LRUs towards Indigenization. Identify flight performance requirements, validation documentation, Qualification and Certification requirements: Time of Contract + 15 months.

* Assistance and Guidance during Qualification testing and Acceptance testing of LRU's: Time of Contract + 18 months.

* Coordinate with Certification Agencies towards obtaining flight worthiness clearance for the indigenized LRUS: Time of Contract + 21 months.

[shaun]

Click on the pic below


vna elgin


hyde middle school

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1729 ... 36348?s=20 ---> Acoustics India Private Limited has been selected as the 𝗦𝗲𝗻𝗶𝗼𝗿 𝗗𝗼𝗺𝗮𝗶𝗻 𝗘𝘅𝗽𝗲𝗿𝘁 for providing the technical assistance for Integration of Kaveri Engine in a LCA aircraft. The bid price is: INR 49,39,610 Rupees. Timeline: Time of Contract + 2 Years.

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1729 ... 62716?s=20 ---> 𝗜𝗡𝗥 𝟱𝟱𝟴𝟵!

Rs 5589 was the difference in the price between Acoustics India Pvt Ltd and BaE-HAL Software Ltd bids for the role *Senior Domain Expert*.

This is real competition!

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1729 ... 36348?s=20 ---> Acoustics India Private Limited has been selected as the 𝗦𝗲𝗻𝗶𝗼𝗿 𝗗𝗼𝗺𝗮𝗶𝗻 𝗘𝘅𝗽𝗲𝗿𝘁 for providing the technical assistance for Integration of Kaveri Engine in a LCA aircraft. The bid price is: INR 49,39,610 Rupees. Timeline: Time of Contract + 2 Years.

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1729 ... 62716?s=20 ---> 𝗜𝗡𝗥 𝟱𝟱𝟴𝟵!

Rs 5589 was the difference in the price between Acoustics India Pvt Ltd and BaE-HAL Software Ltd bids for the role *Senior Domain Expert*.

https://x.com/Tej_Intel/status/1729136458542522424?s=20 ---> Imagine a company has to do all this in just 49 Lakhs. That's the pressure of being L1 does to you. How would you grow in this segment? Such is the business scenario.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/172 ... 92033?s=20 ---> Today, DRDO's GTRE issued tenders for the modification of an LCA-specific AMAGB (Aircraft Mounted Accessory Gearbox) for utilization in the Kaveri Dry Engine. Recently GTRE had also issued tenders for the upgrade of one unit of GTSU 110 Mk2 (LCA Tejas' engine starter unit) for use in the 'Flying Test Bed' of the Kaveri Dry Engine. These developments are further indications of GTRE's intent to use an LCA airframe as test bed for the Kaveri Dry Engine.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/172 ... 92033?s=20 ---> Today, DRDO's GTRE issued tenders for the modification of an LCA-specific AMAGB (Aircraft Mounted Accessory Gearbox) for utilization in the Kaveri Dry Engine. Recently GTRE had also issued tenders for the upgrade of one unit of GTSU 110 Mk2 (LCA Tejas' engine starter unit) for use in the 'Flying Test Bed' of the Kaveri Dry Engine. These developments are further indications of GTRE's intent to use an LCA airframe as test bed for the Kaveri Dry Engine.

https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1729443861632786507?s=20 ---> So here it is - the frozen configuration of high speed gear box of the Kaveri engine...

[csaurabh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1729 ... 62716?s=20 ---> 𝗜𝗡𝗥 𝟱𝟱𝟴𝟵!

Rs 5589 was the difference in the price between Acoustics India Pvt Ltd and BaE-HAL Software Ltd bids for the role *Senior Domain Expert*.

https://x.com/Tej_Intel/status/1729136458542522424?s=20 ---> Imagine a company has to do all this in just 49 Lakhs. That's the pressure of being L1 does to you. How would you grow in this segment? Such is the business scenario.

This is the thing, we want companies to do R&D and yet we want them also to be L1 (lowest cost bidder). How is it possible if you can barely make any profit let alone plow back money into R&D ? Answer is - it isn't possible. That is why companies mostly do assemblies of existing products or make the same thing over and over with minimal changes.

[NRao]

In general, when it comes to A/C engines I do not think L1 is a good way to go. I think a nation needs to hedge. IMO, two players are always needed. The cost will be greater, but the risk will be less.

[hgupta]

I agree. We should always get 2 vendors to hedge our bets.

[shaun]

https://x.com/Tej_Intel/status/1729136458542522424?s=20 ---> Imagine a company has to do all this in just 49 Lakhs. That's the pressure of being L1 does to you. How would you grow in this segment? Such is the business scenario.

This is the thing, we want companies to do R&D and yet we want them also to be L1 (lowest cost bidder). How is it possible if you can barely make any profit let alone plow back money into R&D ? Answer is - it isn't possible. That is why companies mostly do assemblies of existing products or make the same thing over and over with minimal changes.

I guess they already have the required facility . The photo above shows the testbed for 414.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1735 ... 06394?s=20 ---> Kalyani Strategic Systems Limited is proposing to acquire a majority (51%) stake in Zorya Mashproekt India Private Limited. It will subscribe to 5,00,000 equity shares of face value Rs.10/- each of ZMI at fair value.

[JTull]

Is this an MRO type venture?

[SidSom]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1735 ... 06394?s=20 ---> Kalyani Strategic Systems Limited is proposing to acquire a majority (51%) stake in Zorya Mashproekt India Private Limited. It will subscribe to 5,00,000 equity shares of face value Rs.10/- each of ZMI at fair value.

Why not acquire the parent company itself? Should be more useful than this.

[drnayar]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1735 ... 06394?s=20 ---> Kalyani Strategic Systems Limited is proposing to acquire a majority (51%) stake in Zorya Mashproekt India Private Limited. It will subscribe to 5,00,000 equity shares of face value Rs.10/- each of ZMI at fair value.

Why not acquire the parent company itself? Should be more useful than this.

Indeed that company is not a direct subsidiary of the Ukranian company

also not sure the original company is still up and running ..

https://nabu.gov.ua/en/news/zavolod-nni ... riuvanikh/

https://www.defencexp.com/zorya-mashpro ... dian-navy/

Due to the heavy bombing of major Ukrainian cities including Mykolaiv, many important industrial complexes have been damaged or destroyed. According to Ukrainian officials, Russia is deliberately targeting the sophisticated defence manufacturing industry. Zorya-Mashproekt is no exception. According to reports[source], the Zorya-Mashproekt factory was bombed and damaged. Photographs reveal the factory to be engulfed in flames. Thus Ukraine’s marine gas turbine manufacturing capacity has been destroyed

Not sure what exactly Kalyani is paying for ?!!

[sajaym]

Not sure what exactly Kalyani is paying for ?!!

Below are the words of Kalyani group founder Baba Kalyani from an old interview...

https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/f ... 2015-04-20

There was a artillery plant available in Switzerland belonging to RUAG. It was considered the Rolls Royce of artillery. They wanted to sell the plant because they were doing work for the American army in Afganistan and Iraq. That work was over because the US Army was heading home. I bought the plant within 24 hours and, in the following month, I moved it to Pune. I put 50 engineers on the project and in around 18 months, we built our first artillery gun. It was a success. Now, we have built four platforms, including an ultra light. Two platforms - the ultra light and the 155mm/52 - have gone for firing tests.

... this is what they're paying for.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1736 ... 21135?s=20 ---> DRDO to indigenise many components of the Mirage 2000's M-53 engine.

[ramana]

Folks can the Shakti Engine be re-purposed with a new gearbox and made into a turboprop?

[Rakesh]

Folks can the Shakti Engine be re-purposed with a new gearbox and made into a turboprop?

Both are paid articles. Will try and look for them elsewhere on the internet.

Safran eyes turboprop variant of Ardiden 3 helicopter engine
https://www.flightglobal.com/helicopter ... 60.article
29 April 2019

Safran and ZF press ahead with new military turboprop engine development
https://www.flightglobal.com/farnboroug ... 07.article
21 July 2020

[Rakesh]

Ramana-ji, here is a free article...which ties into the above two articles...

Safran Helicopter Engines strengthens its European team
https://www.airmedandrescue.com/latest/ ... opean-team
05 Oct 2020

[ramana]

Thanks. So key enablers are FADEC, propeller and gearbox.

[Rakesh]

India's Major Weapons Projects Remain Vulnerable To US Engines And Goodwill
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/the-fat ... s-goodwill
21 Dec 2023

[Prem Kumar]

Just like China did, we should identify key Atmanirbhar Strategic areas and make a 10 year plan to master them & become world leaders

1) Engines/powerpacks of all sizes and power: starting with a jet-engine
2) Chips: CPU, GPU, Memory etc
3) AI, Supercomputing, Internet-core-components (social media on the software side, routers/switches on the hardware side)
4) Sourcing of critical minerals
5) Pharma supply chain

Each one is a national mission that will need investment in Billions of $$ but will generate immense employment & spin-off industries. Will pay for itself 100X

[Brad Goodman]

Can I ask a couple of engine related questions, maybe they might be offtopic to Kaveri so Mods can delete the post. The first question I have from engine design philosophy is what is the difference between P&W Vs GE engines? Why are all new planes coming with P&E ? Is GE becoming like Ford or GM of car world? Is it that P&W came up with better engines with more thrust?

Second question is where is Panda lagging in engine tech? With their kind of money, their science and engineers are definately better quality so if they are struggling what makes us think we can do it in less money and help ?

[Pratyush]

Brad, your question about GE and P&E is too unfocused to give you a correct answer.

Ie. What new planes are coming with P&E engine's? Civilian or military.

2) we don't know who the engine provider would be for both USAF and USN NGAD program. Nor do we know who the engine provider is for the B21.

3) In civil aviation space, both GE and P&W are coming up with extremely high bypass turbo fans.

Second WRT PRC, they have just certified both a high bypass turbo fan for Y 20 in the shape of WS 20. Along with the WS 15 for the J 20.

While it's difficult to comment about the reliability of those engines. The fact that they are now powering major new PRC programs shows a high degree of confidence in those engines.

[ramana]

GE of late is more into civil airliner jets.
P&W is completely military jets.

China don't know.

[pravula]

GE of late is more into civil airliner jets.
P&W is completely military jets.

China don't know.

P&W is still in civilian jet engines. They have been taking a beating recently.

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/inter ... 795791.htm

[Aditya_V]

Is there anyway they can scrap all F16's using PW engines and only continue with ones using GE engines.

[Manish_P]

Did a quick read.

P&W power the older block F16, F15, the F22, F35, B52s
GE power the newer block F16, F15 (including the latest EX), F18, A10, B1, B2

RR power the RQ-4, MQ-4 UAVs

Looking into the future, both P&W and GE are in the race for the NGAD fighter

The two current front-runners for the Loyal Wingman program are Boeing with it's product MQ-28 (with GE engine) & Kratos systems with the XQ-58 (currently Williams engine, final engine unspecified)

P&W will power the B-21 raider

So the US has always taken care to ensure that both the major engine suppliers have enough orders in both the fixed wing fighters and bombers categories. If one falls seriously behind they will probably get it absorbed/merged into the bigger one (like the do for the aircraft developers).

* - UAV/UCAVs have a bit more spread with Honeywell, Williams etc

[Brad Goodman]

Brad, your question about GE and P&E is too unfocused to give you a correct answer.

Ie. What new planes are coming with P&E engine's? Civilian or military.

2) we don't know who the engine provider would be for both USAF and USN NGAD program. Nor do we know who the engine provider is for the B21.


Second WRT PRC, they have just certified both a high bypass turbo fan for Y 20 in the shape of WS 20. Along with the WS 15 for the J 20.

Thankyou Sir for reply, I was only speaking in Military engines and that only for attack jets, Example F16 was P&W(optional GE) where as F18 was GE 414, I think F15 was P&W too (with GE as an alternate) but F22, F35 both have P&W, since F18, F15 & F16 are winding down looks like GE is exiting that space. So my question was like is P&W engines designed with future tech and hence darlings of both Lockheed and Boeing (mil)? Future attack aircrafts being built is all P&W at the moment

[NRao]

GE of late is more into civil airliner jets.
P&W is completely military jets.

China don't know.

Designed in Bharat.

[VishnuS]

Sir, I don't know whether this is the right place to ask, but am asking anyway.

Recently DRDO has declared to work/replace some of M53 parts...

With over 200 operating aircrafts, I doubt this has something to do with spare parts availability.

I am sure we got approval and probably help from Snecma to tinker M53s.

So how and where can tech developed for Kaveri can help us, can we improve M53s. Is there any remote chance that we can hope for weight reduction/thrust improvement for M53s!? Or will it be our EDE verson of M53.

Also, I am unable to send private messages, can you please help me do that!? Thank you.

[maitya]

Sir, I don't know whether this is the right place to ask, but am asking anyway.

Recently DRDO has declared to work/replace some of M53 parts...

With over 200 operating aircrafts, I doubt this has something to do with spare parts availability.

I am sure we got approval and probably help from Snecma to tinker M53s.

So how and where can tech developed for Kaveri can help us, can we improve M53s. Is there any remote chance that we can hope for weight reduction/thrust improvement for M53s!? Or will it be our EDE verson of M53.

Also, I am unable to send private messages, can you please help me do that!? Thank you.

Yes, saw that news article as well, and no, I don't know much directly about part-replacement etc of the M53-P2s etc.
However, technologically, there's nothing in M52-P2 that can't be manufactured here however, without OEM active participation and sharing of proprietary data etc, it'll not be possible to test and qualify them.
So theoretically, the core components like HPT/LPT blades and discs, NGV, HPC/Fan blades/discs, combustor and shafts all can be produced - if fact, many of them can be a gen ahead as well, but still without design (and validation) data, it'll be herculean task to test and certify them.
Ofcourse if OEM agrees to play ball and agress to part with design and validation data, then nothing like it.

Wrt EDE equiv version etc, yes it can be done, again theoretically - but then again OEM participation/co-operation is required big time. Also, there's a danger of warranty etc being invalidated if any part development etc happens without OEM consent.

Remember for the Adour HPT blades, discs, HPCs etc have been produced in HAL (or was it MIDHANI, can't remember) for almost an decade now - there were reports that these turned out to be actually superior to what was being imported etc - so maybe this is a similar initiative.

Sorry, don't know more about this, to go any more specific aspects regarding this.

[VishnuS]

Sir, I don't know whether this is the right place to ask, but am asking anyway.

Recently DRDO has declared to work/replace some of M53 parts...

With over 200 operating aircrafts, I doubt this has something to do with spare parts availability.

I am sure we got approval and probably help from Snecma to tinker M53s.

So how and where can tech developed for Kaveri can help us, can we improve M53s. Is there any remote chance that we can hope for weight reduction/thrust improvement for M53s!? Or will it be our EDE verson of M53.

Also, I am unable to send private messages, can you please help me do that!? Thank you.

Yes, saw that news article as well, and no, I don't know much directly about part-replacement etc of the M53-P2s etc.
However, technologically, there's nothing in M52-P2 that can't be manufactured here however, without OEM active participation and sharing of proprietary data etc, it'll not be possible to test and qualify them.
So theoretically, the core components like HPT/LPT blades and discs, NGV, HPC/Fan blades/discs, combustor and shafts all can be produced - if fact, many of them can be a gen ahead as well, but still without design (and validation) data, it'll be herculean task to test and certify them.
Ofcourse if OEM agrees to play ball and agress to part with design and validation data, then nothing like it.

Wrt EDE equiv version etc, yes it can be done, again theoretically - but then again OEM participation/co-operation is required big time. Also, there's a danger of warranty etc being invalidated if any part development etc happens without OEM consent.

Remember for the Adour HPT blades, discs, HPCs etc have been produced in HAL (or was it MIDHANI, can't remember) for almost an decade now - there were reports that these turned out to be actually superior to what was being imported etc - so maybe this is a similar initiative.

Sorry, don't know more about this, to go any more specific aspects regarding this.

Regarding M-53, I am sure OEM might have given their blessings! Otherwise DRDO wouldn't have advertised about parts replacement.

I read one your message about how our engine tech is better than F404 in some aspects, so I took an expected guess about EDE version of M53. Hope they put stall about this in the DefExpo24.

And sir, I am unable to send private messages, can you please help me or guide me to someone else who can sort this issue for me.

[hgupta]

Maitya pls PM on how our engine tech is better than F404 in some aspects in plain english. Thanks.

[drnayar]

Seems like the SoKo has jumped into the bandwagon to manufacture fighter jet engines.. by 2030 !!

[maitya]

Maitya pls PM on how our engine tech is better than F404 in some aspects in plain english. Thanks.

hgupta-ji, never a big fan of doing a "generic comparo" between various TFs as,
1) Most TFs are designed for their intended-application, so a lot of design decisions (read compromises) were made wrt these intended applications
2) Without knowing all the details (especially, design-compromises made to meet certain exact requirements), it's pointless to take a hand-full of performance parameters, compare them, and then pass a ill-informed judgement wrt one being better/superior to the other etc.

However, IMVHO it's a perfectly legitimate ask, both F404-402s and Kaveri being of the same gen and being contemporaries (in fact Kaveri requirements were more or less based on F404 shiny brochures of the late 80s vintage).

So, since you've asked for, here's once such post, from a couple of years back - you may want to go thru it once, and then we can have a follow-up discussion on various nuances of such an comparo.

Anyway, coming back to the topic, wrt the points above, especially wrt point 2, a good example of the comparo of the BPR between F404 and Kaveri:

Now BPR of Kaveri (0.16) is decidedly less than that of F404(0.36) - placing Kaveri firmly in the genre of "leaky turbofan", as opposed to an "aspiring turbofan" (my term), like a F404.
A higher BPR will ensure more % of mass-flow to be bypassed, so the thrust component (of the dry thrust) from the Fan/LPC will be higher. What it also essentially means, from a future "growth potential" etc, with smaller/incremental improvements to the Fan/LPC alone (and maybe also to the LPT and then to the Fan/LPC), dry thrust increments can be delivered.
I can be wrong, but I think the thrust increment to the IN20 versions are a direct result of this pursuing this path (though there are some reports of some slight improvements to the Gas generator aspects as well).

Now it's a perfectly legitimate ask, as to why the BPR for Kaveri was kept lower than F404-402 in the first place.

But closer look at the requirements would reveal, why Kaveri's BPR was deliberately kept low - well, as is always the case of pure-brochirities-cum-field-experience mish-mash that gets routinely passed on PSQRs etc (another example is 4-crew platform but 45T weight requirement a la Arjun), an ask of flat-rating was included in the requirement set.

I'll not go into more details on this aspect (there are multiple posts from me and few other posters as well on this in BRF over the last decade), but trying to "extract" the shiny-brochure-advertised dry-thrust from a F404 (and also similar TFs like Adours, M53s etc) is impossible in May-Aug timeframe in vast swaths of western, central and even northern India. So, to even take-off with a decent payload, would require reliance on A/B etc (and there goes the combat-range).

A flat-rated TF would, on the other hand, always meet the specified dry-thrust values irrespective of the ambient atmospheric condition.

Now since there's no djinn magic etc involved, one (some say it's crude) way of getting there is to have higher volume of mass-flow thru the core - and the BPR would thus need to be kept low.
A higher mass-flow-thru-core vol would mean, even with less-denser air-inflow in summers, the resultant mass-flow remains sufficiently higher to sustain the peak dry-thrust. Yes, it requires higher TeT levels as well (and also sufficient "leeway" to the thermal efficiency levels etc, directly impacting the SFC levels in those regimes), but atleast this key operational constraint (from purely Indian PoV) is mitigated.

Kaveri design is exactly that - low BPR to ensure adequate mass-flow-volumes are always available thru Core.

Now for a F404, designed for cooler climatic conditions, there are no such requirements - allowing higher BPR to be able to advertise a higher dry-thrust value (even, and arguably, with a slightly inferior gas-generator core) than it can actually guarantee in all sorts of operating environments.

Do note some of the implications of such an arrangement (willy-nilly increasing the higher mass-flow vol thru core):
1) Your TeT levels needs to be relatively higher to allow for similar level of work-extraction at the HPT (pls refer to the Work Extraction vs PR vs TeT in the Kaveri Gyan thread), for the same PR levels

2) which would mean, you need a superior thermal efficiency by design if you are not going to compromise the SFC levels too much (some is inevitable).

3) now that would mean, in turn, the HPC RPM levels needs to be higher to account for this higher mass-flow volume - so that the stagnation pressure levels are maintained at the combustor inlet (otherwise combustion efficiency will be hit, Kaveri's combustion efficiency is > 99%).

4) but higher HPC RPM means pushing the surge margin (Kaveri's at a very good level 21.6%) - a very dangerous ploy as, if not very carefully controlled, this can lead to compressor stall situations (a catastrophic condition)

5) the OPR levels (21.5 in Kaveri vs 28 in F404) looks bad on various technicolour brochures. OPR can be increased by increasing the Fan/LPC SPR values (3.4 for Kaveri vs 4.1 in F404) via better design, but in case of Kaveri with lesser volume of bypass mass-flow, not much dry thrust augmentation etc would accrue anyway (yes will look better in brochures though).
However, if the LPT (which drives the Fan/LPC) can be improved, then it's a different ball game alltogether ... pls refer to this one of my earlier post for details.

I'll stop here ... but you may also want to refer to my older four part series posts:
1) Part 1
2) Part 2
3) Part 3
4) Part 4

[hgupta]

What is BPR and OPR? Not familiar with the acronyms.

[fanne]

Bypass ratio and overall pressure ratio

[maitya]

Yes, saw that news article as well, and no, I don't know much directly about part-replacement etc of the M53-P2s etc.
However, technologically, there's nothing in M52-P2 that can't be manufactured here however, without OEM active participation and sharing of proprietary data etc, it'll not be possible to test and qualify them.
So theoretically, the core components like HPT/LPT blades and discs, NGV, HPC/Fan blades/discs, combustor and shafts all can be produced - if fact, many of them can be a gen ahead as well, but still without design (and validation) data, it'll be herculean task to test and certify them.
Ofcourse if OEM agrees to play ball and agress to part with design and validation data, then nothing like it.

Wrt EDE equiv version etc, yes it can be done, again theoretically - but then again OEM participation/co-operation is required big time. Also, there's a danger of warranty etc being invalidated if any part development etc happens without OEM consent.

Remember for the Adour HPT blades, discs, HPCs etc have been produced in HAL (or was it MIDHANI, can't remember) for almost an decade now - there were reports that these turned out to be actually superior to what was being imported etc - so maybe this is a similar initiative.

Sorry, don't know more about this, to go any more specific aspects regarding this.

Regarding M-53, I am sure OEM might have given their blessings! Otherwise DRDO wouldn't have advertised about parts replacement.

I read one your message about how our engine tech is better than F404 in some aspects, so I took an expected guess about EDE version of M53. Hope they put stall about this in the DefExpo24.

And sir, I am unable to send private messages, can you please help me or guide me to someone else who can sort this issue for me.

VishnuS ji, you may want to refer to this decade+ old post of mine, from 2013 wrt M53 vis-a-vis Kaveri. There are quite a few details in it, which are quite relevant to understanding your ask.
Pls go thru it and we can have a further discussion on it.

[chetak]

Nostalgia: A bit of LCA history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtD7UfbE2hY

Aug 13, 2014
The roundtable moved on to discuss the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) program, the DRDO development of a new fighter to be produced by HAL, and raised serious concerns on the impact of it's possible failure.



3:00
the choice of the program you see you started off with hf 24 and countries if you see them you need
3:07
to follow just like what the chinese are following the block approach is what we should have done we should have continued with hf24
3:13
in different blocks that's how we built the national capability we close shop there and then we jump to
3:20
a forum of generation aspiration on the lca much has been achieved which is very creditable
3:26
but it will take 30 years if you jump like that and the time frames that have been projected are all been you know
3:32
absolutely unrealistic and this is where the government needs to be brought in what were they doing
3:37
how do they analyze or they just take their words for it cost and time frames were absolutely
3:42
unrealistic an example in the covered engine 89 you get the cc cc approval project is approved for
3:51
450 crores saying that a fourth generation engine no such
3:56
engine ever existed anywhere in the world and mind you we haven't made a single aero engine that flies before
4:02
that nor even today no engine has been made and designed and made and you want to jump to a fourth
4:08
generation engine the original proposal was for a five-stage engine which people said
4:13
come on have some sense look into it again so they made it six stage even that was not existing anywhere in the world
4:18
and what do they say we will do the complete development in seven years by seventh year the serious production
4:24
would be ready and you know it will be inducted into the air force in 1996.
4:29
even for an established majors like general electric or pratt whitney to start an engine from scratch
4:35
design is a 20-year program okay so here professionalism is in question so these