-----------------
shiv wrote:Folks check this out
North and South Waziristan - out of control.
Bajaur and Mohmand agencies - getting out of control
Tank and Dera Ismail Khan in trouble.
shiv wrote:Folks check this out
North and South Waziristan - out of control.
Bajaur and Mohmand agencies - getting out of control
Tank and Dera Ismail Khan in trouble.
----------------anupmisra wrote:Some puki must have upset the BBC to have them write this article.
Pakistan army's tribal quagmire
BBC News, Karachi
The border area consists of large tracts of inhospitable terrain. At 11,000 feet, with the temperature dipping 10 degrees below freezing, an army pilot recalls how he was sweating from head to toe. There was a fault in the engine and he might crash at any moment. And while he could eject to safety, he would then be floating straight into the jaws of a death more dreadful than being charred inside a crashed jet.
"This is a country where soldiers are slaughtered," he told me after his dramatic flight. "Their bodies may be found, but not their heads." The pilot's comments are indicative of the sinking morale of the army.
During the last few months, military personnel have increasingly become targets of ambushes and kidnappings. The headless bodies of several kidnapped soldiers have been found, with messages from the militants warning the army to pull out of the area.
In some of the latest fighting on Monday, the army reported 50 troops missing when a supply convoy to one of the garrisons in the north eastern part of the district was ambushed. Local reports say all 50 were killed and their bodies set on fire. The army says only 25 were killed.
In August, militants in the neighbouring South Waziristan district kidnapped nearly 300 troops, including at least nine officers, who are yet to be released. Significantly, many of these troops are reported to have surrendered without firing a shot. This has landed the government in a tight spot.
One way of restoring the morale of the troops would be to go in with a clearly defined surgical operation, having a set time-frame. This could be followed by a prompt and efficient programme of economic aid and political reform aimed at winning friends and isolating the "enemies". But the government is arguably already past that stage, mainly due to its early policy of protecting the Taleban and their "foreign guests". (reap what you sow)
For months after the country joined the US-led "war on terror" in 2001, North and South Waziristan districts continued to serve as a transit point for Taleban, Arab and other foreign fighters escaping US military operations in Afghanistan. When it came under pressure from Western powers to do something about this, the government decided to send in the army.
That sidelined the tribal administration which had the experience of governing the tribal areas over the years. As a result, the army suffered disastrous losses in 2004. Soon after, it signed a string of peace treaties leaving the militants in virtual control of the region.
However, it did occasionally act on specific US intelligence to destroy the odd target, or claimed to have carried out a strike that was actually conducted by the US inside Pakistani territory.
Two such strikes in the tribal regions of Bajaur and South Waziristan in late 2006 and early 2007 enraged militant leaders who vowed revenge. In July, the army's storming of the radical Red Mosque in the country's capital, Islamabad, added fuel to the fire.
One way of restoring the morale of the troops would be to go in with a clearly defined surgical operation. The government described the occupants of the Red Mosque as militants, but they and their political allies said they were either religious students or innocent civilians.
In any event, the militants unilaterally cancelled their peace agreements with the government and started targeting the army and the police. Following peace deals with the militants, these troops were pulled out of check posts and were either deployed on the border with Afghanistan, or stationed in scores of fortified military posts dating from the British period.
Troops in North Waziristan are supplied from two roads, one coming in from the east and another from the north. Those in South Waziristan only have one supply road, which links Wana with Dera Ismail Khan, a city in the south of the North West Frontier Province. Once inside the tribal region, these supplies are transported via a network of roads and dirt tracks that connect various military posts. It is these roads and tracks that are most vulnerable.
Over the last couple of months, no supply convoy has traversed the region without the escort of a helicopter gunship. But combat troops are reluctant to face the militants on the ground, apparently because their knowledge of the area is limited and the "enemy" is indistinguishable from the civilian population. Isn't this what BRF has been saying for years?
Earlier this year, the army succeeded in evicting foreign fighters from Wana by supporting a Taleban commander, Maulvi Nazir. But in Mir Ali, another major hub of foreign militants linked to al-Qaeda, there is no evidence that such a similar strategy is going to be repeated.
The Pakistani military is well and truly bogged down.
----------ramana wrote:Maybe this is the defeat of the TSP Army that I have been looking for to return them to the barracks and a return to normality. Its not the one in the "Dash to Indus".
Allah is mericful and acts in mysterious ways.
----------------enqyoob wrote:Wonder how to get the TSPA to commit, say, 700,000 into the NWFP. That would be a real "bogdown".
Then Baluchistan, Sindh and Balwaristan can declare independence, and the Waziris will make sure that what returns from the 700,000 won't even be wearing knickers.
Ramana, I don't see how the TSPA can return to their barracks in Pakjab at this point without total loss of Pakhtoonistan.
The other sweet thought is: What happens if somehow they lost the combat helicopter cover for the convoys? ( I don't yet see how that will happen, but bad weather is one condition...)
The morale does not seem to be at the level where there will be many herrowic stands. Mass panic is more like it, with a swift change in uniforms and elimination of the Pakjabi officer corpses.
Ramana, the mountains there may become known as the Paki Kush. Or the MushiKush. The reported ambushes are larger in scale than those against the Russian forces in A'Stan.
Total Russian losses were reported at some 17000 killed and maybe another 50,000 wounded but evacuated. Paki Fauj losses are heading to that range very fast - some 4000 in 2004, and now it's going at around 250 per week. Some Paki reported a few weeks back that the total was more than the sum of the 1965 and '71 losses (each around 3000 to 4000). That means total is > 7000 already, now past 8000, assuming that the "missing" or "kidnapped" are dead. Otherwise, 7000 dead, maybe 5000 switched sides already.
(Incidentally, that means that Kargil was much worse than either of those - 4000+ dead)
Somehow the British loss of 15000 doesn't seem that massive anymore.
-----------------ramana wrote:We on BRF except for Paul have been remiss in spotting the Pashtun civil war in the FATA area. Most of us were fooled by the TSP-US reports of AlQ and Taliban revivial. Yes they are also involved but the bigger picture is the Pashtuns are rising in revolt and the historical compact between the Pakjabis and Pashtuns is over. And Indian kaccha folks are still uncooked and have not recognised the elephant from the mice.
Where is the outcry in Indian media about the civil war.?
The sad part is just as in 1975-1977, when the Baloch rose in revolt agaisnt Bhutto, India is busy with internal foolery to take advantage of the situation. And uncle ensures that we stay fooled.
We need to have a separate thread on that to minimize noise.
--------------
---------------------vinayak_dangui wrote:The pashtuns need to ally with the Baloch for their common cause of independence from the pakjabis. I hope the stupid, senile morons comprising the Indian govt don't hold RAW back from making use of this god sent opportunity.
Blah...just make sure they get all the stuff to blow each other up. Higher the body count better, whether it is brave Pakistani fauj or Pathan terrorist.Prem wrote:My opinion is that Indians should extend all possible moral and diplomatic suppot to supressed Pashtoons. We owe them a favour in the name of Gaffar Khan.
linkMIRAN SHAH, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistani aircraft bombed a village bazaar packed with shoppers near the Afghan border Tuesday, pushing the death toll to 250 in four days of fighting — the deadliest clashes since Pakistan threw its support behind the U.S.-led war on terror in 2001.
The attack on Epi village in North Waziristan tribal region killed dozens of militants and civilians — deaths that are likely to harden domestic opposition to President Gen. Pervez Musharraf's alliance with Washington.
The bazaar was crowded with people buying food to break their daylong Ramadan fast when it was rocked by a dozen explosions that destroyed shops and nearby homes, residents said. Abdul Sattar, a grocery shop owner, said he counted more than 60 dead and more than 150 wounded, including many civilians. Many of the victims were mutilated.
"Some did not have heads, hands or legs. Some people were searching for their children and women," Sattar told The Associated Press by telephone from Epi.
The Pakistani military has repeatedly understated casualties of troops fighting against the Taliban and al Qaeda in the Northwest Frontier Province. The military claimed about 1,000 troops were killed during the Waziristan campaigns in 2004 through 2006. The real number is thought to be well over 3,000 Pakistani troops killed.
Now, now is that Paki aircraft bombing or is it NATO bombing with Pakis taking the rap?Singha wrote:LATIMES: wow open bombing of the towns now...
MIRAM SHAH, PAKISTAN -- Pakistani aircraft bombed a village bazaar packed with shoppers near the Afghan border Tuesday, pushing the death toll to 250 in four days of fighting, the deadliest clashes since Pakistan threw its support behind the U.S.-led war on Al Qaeda and the Taliban in 2001.
Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Waheed Arshad said that military aircraft targeting militant hide-outs struck "one or two places" outside Epi and that residents reported about 50 militants were killed.
He said the airstrikes might have killed some civilians living in areas where militant hide-outs were targeted, but he had no numbers.
linkFighting Resumes in Northwest Pakistan
By BASHIRULLAH KHAN – 3 hours ago
MIRAN SHAH, Pakistan (AP) — Shelling resumed early Wednesday in an area of northwest Pakistan where battles between troops and militants have killed up to 250 people and sent thousands more fleeing, witnesses said.
The five days of clashes in the North Waziristan region near the Afghan border are the deadliest since Pakistan threw its support behind the U.S.-led war on terror in 2001.
An Associated Press reporter in Miran Shah, the region's main town, heard a burst of artillery or mortar fire before dawn on Wednesday. Farid Ullah, a resident of nearby Mir Ali, said the shells had hit houses in that town.
"I have not dared to go outside, so I don't know if there anyone was hurt," Ullah said by telephone.
Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Waheed Arshad said that while artillery may have been fired, no major incidents took place overnight.
On Tuesday, residents said Pakistani aircraft bombed the nearby village of Epi, killing dozens of militants and civilians and injuring many more, including shoppers in a packed bazaar.
The army said the planes were targeting militant hideouts near Mir Ali and that local tribesmen reported about 50 militants were killed.
Arshad said Tuesday that the airstrikes might have killed some civilians, but he had no exact numbers.
Well, at least the F-16s are now being used for the very purpose they said they were gifting it to pakjabis - to kill innocent pakis/terrorists.Singha wrote:LATIMES: wow open bombing of the towns now...
MIRAM SHAH, PAKISTAN -- Pakistani aircraft bombed a village bazaar packed with shoppers near the Afghan border Tuesday, pushing the death toll to 250 in four days of fighting, the deadliest clashes since Pakistan threw its support behind the U.S.-led war on Al Qaeda and the Taliban in 2001.
Hats off JEM, hats off!!JE Menon wrote:>>We owe them a favour in the name of Gaffar Khan.
Frontier Gandhi Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan was a man worthy of support. But his replacement today is Frontier Gandu Baitullah Mehsud
linkAbout 200 members of the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, the jihadi group allied to Al Qaeda , and the Pashtun tribal group led by Baitullah Mehsud and about a hundred members of the Pakistani security forces -- mostly para-military personnel -- have been killed in violent clashes around the Mir Ali area of North Waziristan since October 6. The clashes started after the terrorists ambushed a convoy of the security forces in North Waziristan, inflicting an undisclosed number of fatalities and capturing some Pakistani security personnel.
The dead bodies of the some of the security forces personnel were later found abandoned with their throats slit. A jirga of leading North Waziristan clerics led by former member of the National Assembly, Maulana Nek Zaman Haqqani, after daylong negotiations, received 30 bodies of the slain soldiers from the jihadis in Khaisur and handed them over to military officials in Mir Ali.
The News, a well-informed daily newspaper, quoted an unidentified jirga member as claiming on October 8, that the jirga members had recovered 73 bodies of soldiers, majority of which were burnt or badly mutilated, from the Mir Ali villages that they had visited.
Malik Sher Khan, a local tribal elder, said 45 bodies of soldiers had been handed over to military officials in Mir Ali. Quoting a local government official, The News reported as follows: 'Very few of the over 200 soldiers besieged by militants on Sunday (October 7) seem to have survived after the deadliest ever attack on them.'
Following the discovery of over a dozen mutilated dead bodies, either beheaded or with their throats slit, of paramilitary personnel captured earlier by Baitullah Mehsud's men, the paramilitary forces ran amok. Some surrendered to the terrorists, others discarded their uniforms and took shelter in the homes of the residents of the area and some others went on a killing spree, indiscriminately killing the local villagers and the Uzbeks, Chechens and Uighurs living in Mir Ali.
The Pakistani security forces retaliated initially with ground troops and helicopter gunships. Subsequently, unable to prevail over the jihadi forces, they called for an air strike. Major General Waheed Arshad, an army spokesman, claimed in a TV interview that Pakistan Air Force planes targeted militant hideouts and struck 'one or two places' near Mir Ali. Local villagers said PAF aircraft also bombed a village near Mir Ali called Hader Khel. There was a large number of fatalities of civilians on October 9, when some bombs fell on a crowded village market.
Till March, Mir Ali used to be the headquarters of the Islamic Jihad Group, a break-away group of the IMU. It is also known as the Islamic Jihad Union. It ran a number of training camps there where jihadis from many countries, including Germany , China's Xinjiang, and Pakistan itself were trained by Uzbek and Chechen instructors. The IMU's headquarters used to be in the Azam Warsak area of South Waziristan.
This area became the scene of violent attacks by sections of the local tribals on the Uzbeks living in the area following the alleged murder of a local tribal personality by an Uzbek resident of the area in the third week of March. In the ensuing clashes, nearly 100 persons were killed -- about 70 Uzbeks and the remaining locals mainly belonging to the Darikhel and the Tojikhel sub-tribes of the Pashtuns. The Yargulkhel sub-tribe led by Noor Islam and his brother Haji Omar, two important pro-Taliban military commanders who had once fought in Afghanistan, supported the Uzbeks in their fight against the Darikhels and the Tojkhels. Some Yargulkhels were also killed. Ultimately, the IMU was forced to evacuate South Waziristan and shift to Mir Ali.
Following this, I had reported, 'According to well-informed sources in the police of the North-West Frontier Province, the Mir Ali area of North Waziristan in the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan is under the effective control of the IMU headed by Qari Tahir Yaldeshev. Small groups of Chechens and Uighurs are also present in the area. They work under the overall command of Qari Tahir. They were being helped by Maulana Sadiq Noor, a local tribal leader close to the Neo Taliban.
'The IMU, with the help of Chechen instructors, has set up training camps in the area for training the recruits of the Neo Taliban, the jihadi terrorist organisations of Pakistan and individual jihadis from abroad -- particularly from the Pakistani Diaspora abroad. In a report on the ground situation in the North Waziristan area, the Dawn of Karachi stated as follows on July 29: 'The problem now is that the situation in Miranshah has worsened to an unusual extent. In a letter to the government, that sounded more like a lamentation, a political agent stated that the khasadars (tribal police) had abandoned their duty without seeking his permission. All those appointed for 599 posts of the levies force had renounced their responsibilities and officers of the line departments had left their offices at the mercy of watchmen. Little wonder then that a line department office and a check-post are blown up every day. Junior tribal officers and moharrirs (clerks) have not reported for work and tribal elders remain too scared to meet the political administration for fear of reprisal attacks from militants.'
Independent sources say that there is a total administrative collapse in the area, with very little governance. This chaos and anarchy have been spreading to the adjoining Bannu and other areas of the NWFP. The Pakistan Army, despite the claims of General Pervez Musharraf , is not in a position to restore its authority in the area. At the same time, it is reluctant to let the US forces in nearby Afghan territory mount covert actions against these elements lest it further aggravate the jihadi anger against Musharraf in the tribal and non-tribal areas.
Instead of making too many statements on the options available to the US, which are proving counter-productive, the US should authorise its commanders on the ground in the Afghan territory to mount any covert action in Pakistani territory in the North Waziristan area within a certain depth, if such action is warranted by intelligence of terrorist operations under preparation.
After the Pakistani commando raid in Islamabad's Lal Masjid between July 10 and 13, the Mehsuds of Baitullah joined hands with the IMU and the Islamic Jihad Group and started instigating suicide terrorist attacks not only in FATA areas and the NWFP, but also outside the tribal belt -- even in places like Islamabad and Rawalpindi.
Coinciding with the raid, the government sent reinforcements of security forces to North Waziristan. This was interpreted by sections of the local tribals as a violation of the peace agreement signed with them by the Pakistan Army in September 2006, and as a prelude to attacks on the headquarters of the IMU and the Islamic Jihad Group.
They kidnapped nearly 300 members of the paramilitary forces and threatened to kill them at the rate of three a day if their followers in government custody were not released and the reinforcements were not withdrawn.
Following the arrest in Germany in September of three German Muslims trained in the camps of the Islamic Jihad Group in the Mir Ali area, who were allegedly planning to attack a US military base in Germany, the Musharraf government came under increased pressure from the US to act against the pro-Al Qaeda jihadis in the Mir Ali area.
There was similar pressure from the Chinese, who were concerned over the attacks on Chinese nationals working in Pakistan after the Lal Masjid raid. Even apart from these pressures, the worsening security situation in the tribal belt forced the Pakistani security forces to act against the Uzbeks, Chechens and Uighurs and their local tribal supporters.
Reports from the NATO forces in Afghanistan of the presence of increasing numbers of Uzbeks, Chechens and Uighurs with the Neo Taliban forces operating in Afghan territory added to the pressure for action. Responding to these pressures, the Pakistani government started sending further reinforcements to the area. It was a jihadi attack on one of the convoys carrying these reinforcements which triggered off the latest round of deadly clashes.
Thats a BIG enemy .... and it is just one of manyLike the Taliban, Baitullah's 20,000-strong private army -- which according to experts has hundreds of foreigners, mostly Uzbeks -- has a task force that prevents 'vice' and promotes 'virtue.'
parsuram wrote:Surinder, Ramana:
There is no need to have any pity for those pushtuns. Ranjit Singh (and later, the British) had very good, sound reasons to annex parts of Afghanistan now called "NWFP". For over 2100 years death and destruction had rained down on India from the Khyber (and Bolan) passes. It was imperitive to control these two entry points into India (particularly since the Brits had secured the oceans). Arguably, India was entirely secured from external threats from 1919-1947. In todays nuclear age all that is of little importance. That does not take away the fact that much of Afghanistan was traditionally Indian land. And given the PRCees claiming every slip of land that was ever, even in passing, under Chinese control, we should not be promoting afghan annexation of NWFP. All that, and eastern afghanistan was Indian land, and not just in passing. Its another matter that the inhabitants of that land have been living a miserable existance for thousands of years - perhaps on account of Krishna's curse on Shakuni & Gandhar after the Mahabharat war
Afghanistan being part of ancient India sould be part of Indian Strategic Width and strategic Dea..th of Bakistan .JCage wrote:Hats off JEM, hats off!!JE Menon wrote:>>We owe them a favour in the name of Gaffar Khan.
Frontier Gandhi Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan was a man worthy of support. But his replacement today is Frontier Gandu Baitullah Mehsud
Prem,
We indeed owe the Pashtuns. We owe them for 1948. We owe them for all the marauding raids into current India and being the rentier mercenaries of every tinpot Islamic tyrant.
We also owe the Pakjabis.
We should repay our debts by providing support to both sides, and as typical evil indoo banias, supporting both sides. Thats what we are supposed to do right according to their propoganda? Time to live up to the rep.
The british thought of all Indians as useless garbage. They supported the weaker one to counter the stronger one. Uncle, also does the same---it probably likes neither India nor TSP, but supports TSP to keep India down. That is the game called divide-and-rule. It does not come naturally to us. Despite what the Pashtuns did in 1948 and all other times, our interest lies in increasing their strength. So using uncle's strategy: demonize TSP Army, eulogize Baituallah and highlight his suffering. If and when Baitullah supersedes TSP army in strength, do the reverse (but that will happen not with Baitullah, but wth n-th avatar of Baitullah. But that is not our problem.)Prem wrote:Baitullu may be Gandu but we have to make sure that onlee Bakis are the recipient of his Gandugiri.