Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

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Rishirishi
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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 28 Apr 2020 14:01

Mort Walker wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:EV is not Hybrid. It is pure Electric. Gasoline is going to be replaced in cars, trucks, buses bikes etc. It will come fast.


Wrong. An EV is one that is powered by electric motors. See the other thread instead of spreading your diarrhea everywhere including this one about oil and natural gas. Gasoline/diesel is going to be used for another decade for surface transportation, not because of any government mandates or subsidies for batteries, but because of the energy to weight ratio.


I suspect you are payed by some oil lobby group. It is evident by the level of knowledge you have and the way you argue. So I am going to refrain from name callings, because you are simply doing a job. I will focus on spreading more facts :)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autoshow-detroit-electric-exclusive/exclusive-vw-china-spearhead-300-billion-global-drive-to-electrify-cars-idUSKCN1P40G6


(Reuters) - Global automakers are planning a $300 billion surge in spending on electric vehicle technology over the next five to 10 years, with nearly half of the money targeted at China, accelerating the industry’s transition from fossil fuels and shifting power to Asian battery and electric vehicle technology suppliers.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Apr 2020 20:20

Rishirishi,

I don't work or get paid by oil lobby. As usual you're reasoning and logic are are far from reality and fill these threads full of garbage and side track any useful discussions. You can't do simple math and look at the numbers. I am going to call you out for your b******t. You have not provided a single valid fact in ANY thread and your own links have debunked you.

$300 billion to electrify cars over 10 years is a small amount of what the auto industry will spend in capital overall. Some 90 million cars and light vehicles are sold each year world wide.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 28 Apr 2020 22:30

Mort Walker wrote:Rishirishi,

I don't work or get paid by oil lobby. As usual you're reasoning and logic are are far from reality and fill these threads full of garbage and side track any useful discussions. You can't do simple math and look at the numbers. I am going to call you out for your b******t. You have not provided a single valid fact in ANY thread and your own links have debunked you.

$300 billion to electrify cars over 10 years is a small amount of what the auto industry will spend in capital overall. Some 90 million cars and light vehicles are sold each year world wide.


I think spending 300 billion dollars on developing EV, is a sign of shift away from the oil based cars.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Apr 2020 22:59

^^^Spending $300 billion in 10 years by the auto industry on new designs is part and parcel of the auto industry. They spend tens of billions a year on CAPEX. $3B/year represents less than 10%. They can easily do it. Gasoline and diesel for transportation will stay with us for more than ten years. Hydrogen, CNG, and NG will be the next generation of fuels for transportation.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 29 Apr 2020 02:35

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Spending $300 billion in 10 years by the auto industry on new designs is part and parcel of the auto industry. They spend tens of billions a year on CAPEX. $3B/year represents less than 10%. They can easily do it. Gasoline and diesel for transportation will stay with us for more than ten years. Hydrogen, CNG, and NG will be the next generation of fuels for transportation.


Couldn't agree more. Pure EVs are a California pipe dream, except the pipe was Musk's crack pipe.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 29 Apr 2020 03:16

Raveen wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:^^^Spending $300 billion in 10 years by the auto industry on new designs is part and parcel of the auto industry. They spend tens of billions a year on CAPEX. $3B/year represents less than 10%. They can easily do it. Gasoline and diesel for transportation will stay with us for more than ten years. Hydrogen, CNG, and NG will be the next generation of fuels for transportation.


Couldn't agree more. Pure EVs are a California pipe dream, except the pipe was Musk's crack pipe.



Elon Musk has touted many things and only a small amount have come to fruition. It would better serve him to keep quiet and not hurt shareholders in Tesla and SpaceX. I suspect Tesla will jump on the PHEV bandwagon in a couple of years and if they don't, then the bigger players like Toyota, VW, Renault-Nissan, GM, and Hyundai will eat Tesla's lunch. On price and luxury.

The 100% battery EVs are for early adopters, RES jihadis (like Rishirishi and Greta Thunberg), and the wealthy. Most people can't afford it in the short run or long run given that oil is so cheap.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 29 Apr 2020 04:00

Mort Walker wrote:
Raveen wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Pure EVs are a California pipe dream, except the pipe was Musk's crack pipe.



Elon Musk has touted many things and only a small amount have come to fruition. It would better serve him to keep quiet and not hurt shareholders in Tesla and SpaceX. I suspect Tesla will jump on the PHEV bandwagon in a couple of years and if they don't, then the bigger players like Toyota, VW, Renault-Nissan, GM, and Hyundai will eat Tesla's lunch. On price and luxury.

The 100% battery EVs are for early adopters, RES jihadis (like Rishirishi and Greta Thunberg), and the wealthy. Most people can't afford it in the short run or long run given that oil is so cheap.


Plus, Teslas and Leafs are both junk, I would never consider Tesla a luxury car, and have a friend who had to reject 4 model Xs for manufacturing defects - eventually just got his money back.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 29 Apr 2020 05:12

Raveen wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:^^^Spending $300 billion in 10 years by the auto industry on new designs is part and parcel of the auto industry. They spend tens of billions a year on CAPEX. $3B/year represents less than 10%. They can easily do it. Gasoline and diesel for transportation will stay with us for more than ten years. Hydrogen, CNG, and NG will be the next generation of fuels for transportation.


Couldn't agree more. Pure EVs are a California pipe dream, except the pipe was Musk's crack pipe.

EV's are not a pipe dream. It isn't just Tesla. Most big automakers in the world are investing heavily in it, even the American ones. Ford is now advertising an all electric Mustang alongside the largest public charging network in NA according to them.

But that doesn't mean that Petrol/Diesel cars are going away anytime soon. That is most definitely a pipe dream. All-electric vehicles make a lot of sense in NA and western countries where many families have multiple cars and can easily have one EV. Charging infra is widely available and most have their own garages where they can charge their cars as well. But most EV owners even in the yuppy environmentally conscious bay area have at least one other Petrol powered vehicle and that's not going to change soon. EV's also make far less sense in other parts of the world where most people don't even have one car, let alone two, and those who have one or are going to buy one will not hamstring themselves by buying a car they cannot easily refuel or drive long distances.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 29 Apr 2020 06:28

nachiket wrote:
Raveen wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Pure EVs are a California pipe dream, except the pipe was Musk's crack pipe.

EV's are not a pipe dream. It isn't just Tesla. Most big automakers in the world are investing heavily in it, even the American ones. Ford is now advertising an all electric Mustang alongside the largest public charging network in NA according to them.

But that doesn't mean that Petrol/Diesel cars are going away anytime soon. That is most definitely a pipe dream. All-electric vehicles make a lot of sense in NA and western countries where many families have multiple cars and can easily have one EV. Charging infra is widely available and most have their own garages where they can charge their cars as well. But most EV owners even in the yuppy environmentally conscious bay area have at least one other Petrol powered vehicle and that's not going to change soon. EV's also make far less sense in other parts of the world where most people don't even have one car, let alone two, and those who have one or are going to buy one will not hamstring themselves by buying a car they cannot easily refuel or drive long distances.


The Tesla Model 3 starts at $40K, the Ford Mustang Mach E will start at $44K. The median family income in the US is $75K. Any type of vehicle (gasoline or EV) over $25K is simply not palatable. Investment in EVs is not unusual as PHEVs offers significantly improved performance, fuel economy and range. The automakers are not benevolent creatures. They are driven by profit and will pursue that path vigorously.

All different types of EVs are expensive today. They will come down in cost, but it will take 3-5 years. Right now, EVs of all kinds are limited in production and sales. Spending $40K+ on any vehicle is a lot of money for the middle class. Given high unemployment and low economic growth due the Corona virus, it will limit consumer spending. Which will limit the growth of oil and natural gas consumption for this year.

There is also the safety aspect of large lithium ion batteries. Improper assembly will result in catastrophic failure. I would rather set 100 liters of gasoline on fire in my garage before a 100 KWHr Li-Ion battery fire. At least the fire brigade will put out the gasoline fire. With a Tesla and other EVs, the procedure is to let it burn out. The positive side is that my body would not need to be sent for cremation and the fire brigade can just collect my ashes.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 01 May 2020 01:22

All different types of EVs are expensive today. They will come down in cost, but it will take 3-5 years. Right now, EVs of all kinds are limited in production and sales. Spending $40K+ on any vehicle is a lot of money for the middle class. Given high unemployment and low economic growth due the Corona virus, it will limit consumer spending. Which will limit the growth of oil and natural gas consumption for this year.


I agree here.

Currently the prices of family type EV's are 10-15K expensiver as compared to petrol ones. But things are changing fast. WV ID 3 will come at arround 35-40K for a 450Km range. It has much better internal space, compared to the Golf (which comes at 25K). If one calculates the Total cost of ownership, EV's probably match the ICE, due to lower propulsion cost and also maintenance. However the price does scare the average family. Also because it is untried.

Once the prices come down in 3-5 years time and match the price of ICE, the game will change radically in favor of the Battery cars.

Some of the benefits of 100% EV
-Silent
-Smooth transmission and very good pickup.
-Hardly requires any maintenance.
-Locally environmental friendly, but it is not proven that it is over all, as battery production case pollution.

One thing is for sure. They will come, as EV's are much much better to drive and own. Once you have driven one, ICE feels like prehistoric tech. The losers will be mechanics and oil industry. In Norway 70% if the car sales are battery (that is due to very favorable tax conditions, that make EV costs equal the ICE car)

Personally i do not think the ICE or PHEV will be in the market beyond 2025.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 01 May 2020 02:21

nachiket wrote:
Raveen wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Pure EVs are a California pipe dream, except the pipe was Musk's crack pipe.

EV's are not a pipe dream. It isn't just Tesla. Most big automakers in the world are investing heavily in it, even the American ones. Ford is now advertising an all electric Mustang alongside the largest public charging network in NA according to them.

But that doesn't mean that Petrol/Diesel cars are going away anytime soon. That is most definitely a pipe dream. All-electric vehicles make a lot of sense in NA and western countries where many families have multiple cars and can easily have one EV. Charging infra is widely available and most have their own garages where they can charge their cars as well. But most EV owners even in the yuppy environmentally conscious bay area have at least one other Petrol powered vehicle and that's not going to change soon. EV's also make far less sense in other parts of the world where most people don't even have one car, let alone two, and those who have one or are going to buy one will not hamstring themselves by buying a car they cannot easily refuel or drive long distances.


Laziness got the better of my statement - so here goes:

Pure EVs taking 50% of the ICE marketshare in the next 4-5 years remains a pipe dream.

Hybrids, sure - Pure EVs are a bridge to another such as fuel cell

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 01 May 2020 02:28

Rishirishi wrote:
All different types of EVs are expensive today. They will come down in cost, but it will take 3-5 years. Right now, EVs of all kinds are limited in production and sales. Spending $40K+ on any vehicle is a lot of money for the middle class. Given high unemployment and low economic growth due the Corona virus, it will limit consumer spending. Which will limit the growth of oil and natural gas consumption for this year.


I agree here.

Currently the prices of family type EV's are 10-15K expensiver as compared to petrol ones. But things are changing fast. WV ID 3 will come at arround 35-40K for a 450Km range. It has much better internal space, compared to the Golf (which comes at 25K). If one calculates the Total cost of ownership, EV's probably match the ICE, due to lower propulsion cost and also maintenance. However the price does scare the average family. Also because it is untried.

Once the prices come down in 3-5 years time and match the price of ICE, the game will change radically in favor of the Battery cars.

Some of the benefits of 100% EV
-Silent
-Smooth transmission and very good pickup.
-Hardly requires any maintenance.
-Locally environmental friendly, but it is not proven that it is over all, as battery production case pollution.

One thing is for sure. They will come, as EV's are much much better to drive and own. Once you have driven one, ICE feels like prehistoric tech. The losers will be mechanics and oil industry. In Norway 70% if the car sales are battery (that is due to very favorable tax conditions, that make EV costs equal the ICE car)

Personally i do not think the ICE or PHEV will be in the market beyond 2025.


Umm, expesiver? Transmission? not sure you understand what you are talking about.

How about resale - do you want a 8 year old Li-Ion battery in your phone let alone your car? How about actual studies (not gut feel) that clearly show that they are cause far more ecological impact to make than a regular ICE vehicle?

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 01 May 2020 03:13

Umm, expesiver? Transmission? not sure you understand what you are talking about.

How about resale - do you want a 8 year old Li-Ion battery in your phone let alone your car? How about actual studies (not gut feel) that clearly show that they are cause far more ecological impact to make than a regular ICE vehicle?



Transmission. There is no need for gearbox in EV. The torque comes very fast and smooth.

What little history EV resale has, they have fallen a great in price. Not as much because of degradation of battery, but because of technical change. Newer cars has much more range. This may also hit the the ICE in future. People will look at monthly leasing ownership cost. Electricity is far cheaper compared to fuel. So someone can save 2-300 dollars per month in fuel, then it would be better to just junk the ICE car. ICE cars may just become unsalable. It is a bad time to purchase a car now (EV or ICE)

As for green; There are several studies. Independent studies show EV's are more environmental friendly. Industry sponsored studies show a different story. Some of the premises that are often manipulated with; The electricity comes from coal and recycling of battery is not vectored in. Fact is Green energy is replacing coal and EV batteries can be recycled, hence the cost of mining is wrongly calculated.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 01 May 2020 03:27

Rishirishi wrote:
Umm, expesiver? Transmission? not sure you understand what you are talking about.

How about resale - do you want a 8 year old Li-Ion battery in your phone let alone your car? How about actual studies (not gut feel) that clearly show that they are cause far more ecological impact to make than a regular ICE vehicle?



Transmission. There is no need for gearbox in EV. The torque comes very fast and smooth.




Yea, you don't know what you are talking about - a gearbox is essentially the same thing as a transmission, and your beloved Teslas really have none.

Please learn about the subject and indulge in an informed conversation instead of brochureitis. The Li supply chain alone causes significant environmental damage and is held hostage by Chi-chi. Also, if the entirety of the world switches to pure EVs, guess what, electricity becomes more expensive - a commodity is a commodity, oil or electricity. Plus, you think the states are going to let go of fuel based taxes? Naah, they'll tax you on your car to make up for it. Enjoy it while legislation catches up.

Also, you mean factored in, not vectored in, unless these are Li recycling fighter planes.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby sankum » 01 May 2020 09:55

When alto EV for $6000(₹4.5lakh) with minimum 250 km range comes then the era of EV will take over. Maybe by 2030.
And self driving cars maybe by 2035 may reduce the number of personal cars to 10% as personal ownership of cars will become redundant and presently 90 % of cars remain parked in any city at any time.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 01 May 2020 10:31

Raveen wrote:Plus, you think the states are going to let go of fuel based taxes? Naah, they'll tax you on your car to make up for it. Enjoy it while legislation catches up.


Absolutely.

India has lost of Rs. 40,000 crore revenue from gasoline and diesel due to the lockdown.
Coronavirus Impact: India’s oil revenue loss in lockdown seen exceeding Rs 40,000 crore

Ideally gasoline, diesel, kerosene, and cooking gas should have all fallen under the highest slab of GST, but the VAT, cess, and other taxes are much higher where neither the center or states want to give that up. GoI will tax the crap out of 100% battery EVs and PHEVs to make up for the loss.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 01 May 2020 10:50

sankum wrote:When alto EV for $6000(₹4.5lakh) with minimum 250 km range comes then the era of EV will take over. Maybe by 2030.
And self driving cars maybe by 2035 may reduce the number of personal cars to 10% as personal ownership of cars will become redundant and presently 90 % of cars remain parked in any city at any time.


By 2025 the 100% battery EV will be limited in selection as most cars will be parallel PHEVs due to better price, performance and range. By 2030, hydrogen or maybe even propane or CNG fuel cells will start coming on-line. Personal cars represent status and personal freedom everywhere in the world and people are very unlikely to give this up, much like having your mobile instead of going to the ISD/PCO stand.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 01 May 2020 21:38

By 2025 the 100% battery EV will be limited in selection as most cars will be parallel PHEVs due to better price, performance and range. By 2030, hydrogen or maybe even propane or CNG fuel cells will start coming on-line. Personal cars represent status and personal freedom everywhere in the world and people are very unlikely to give this up, much like having your mobile instead of going to the ISD/PCO stand.


Car lobby talk, Just pure bullshit. Can you back up your claim.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 01 May 2020 21:43

Deleted
Last edited by Suraj on 04 May 2020 06:05, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Don't post here if the intent it to attack people personally.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 01 May 2020 22:00

Rishirishi,

Anyone who points out the facts, then you claim they are part of the auto or oil lobbies. Facts bear out a different story. Pure EV car sale in India in FY2019 was less than 1500 units, in FY2018 it was 3400. Overall cars sales were low, but EV sales fell further. The reason is they are expensive to purchase and charging infrastructure is also costly.

There are other threads to discuss your EV fantasies. Stay out of this thread where people can post actual news related and relevant stories.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby KL Dubey » 01 May 2020 22:57

Mort Walker wrote:Rishirishi,

Anyone who points out the facts, then you claim they are part of the auto or oil lobbies. Facts bear out a different story. Pure EV car sale in India in FY2019 was less than 1500 units, in FY2018 it was 3400. Overall cars sales were low, but EV sales fell further. The reason is they are expensive to purchase and charging infrastructure is also costly.

There are other threads to discuss your EV fantasies. Stay out of this thread where people can post actual news related and relevant stories.


I tend to agree. It's difficult to make predictions, especially about the future. But my predictions are that the hybrid vehicle segment will continue to grow and capture most of the EV market, and liquid fuels will be increasingly renewable-based (blends as well and pure renewable fuels). Liquid fuels for vehicles will be dominant for the foreseeable future.

BEVs (i.e. pure EVs) have uncertain life cycle sustainability metrics especially with the costs and environmental impacts for lithium, copper, cobalt, etc production and recycling. This is also a key issue, not just the CO2 emissions.

Overall, from a life cycle sustainability standpoint I believe the following:

- Currently HEV (either standalone or plug-in) is the best option over BEVs and ICEs in all size segments. Putting my money where my talk is, I have replaced both my ICEs with Toyota HEVs (fullsize sedans which give me 43-46 MPG).

- Small BEVs are slightly favorable over small ICEs, but when you come to midsize and fullsize vehicles, the sustainability metrics of BEVs (Tesla et al) in relation to ICEs are still unclear. Huge amounts of copper, lithium, cobalt etc.

This is a good recent report:

https://dovetailinc.org/upload/tmp/1579548819.pdf

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 01 May 2020 23:26

Rishirishi you have been warned for repeatedly accusing other posters of being lobbyists. Address their arguments without ad hominem attacks.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 04 May 2020 05:53

Rishirishi wrote:
Yea, you don't know what you are talking about - a gearbox is essentially the same thing as a transmission, and your beloved Teslas really have none.

Please learn about the subject and indulge in an informed conversation instead of brochureitis. The Li supply chain alone causes significant environmental damage and is held hostage by Chi-chi. Also, if the entirety of the world switches to pure EVs, guess what, electricity becomes more expensive - a commodity is a commodity, oil or electricity. Plus, you think the states are going to let go of fuel based taxes? Naah, they'll tax you on your car to make up for it. Enjoy it while legislation catches up.

Also, you mean factored in, not vectored in, unless these are Li recycling fighter planes.


You also seem to represent a lobby of sort. I know this is how you work. The idea is to plant doubt and ridicule the opponent. The ICE lobby together with the oil lobby is working overtime to delay the EV. Please back up your bullshit.


Instructions not clear

What would you like me to backup - the fact that a gearbox is essentially the transmission? That Teslas and most pure EVs don't have transmission as such? that Li mining has adverse ecological impact? That Chi chi corona overlords controls the Li market? That fuel tax income will and is being replaced by other taxes? that demand and supply set pricing for commodities? That this isn't the Truman show and you aren't surrounded by lobbyists/people out to get you? That you are factually incorrect about all of the above?

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby SaraLax » 04 May 2020 08:35

In Covid-19 World - Seems like GoI's idea of selling BPCL may not come out well (either nobody would bid or bids will be very low in value).
The same may apply to selling off Air-India.

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Mollick.R » 04 May 2020 22:13

India uses low crude prices to stockpile 32 million tonnes of oil

NEW DELHI: India has stored as much as 32 million tonnes (mt) of oil in underground storages, tanks, pipelines, and on ships to create a stockpile using low global oil prices to its advantage, petroleum minister Dharmendra Pradhan said on Monday.
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"Taking advantage of low global oil prices, we decided to fill up our strategic reserves," he said.

The purchases from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Iraq helped fill up the 5.33 million tonnes underground strategic reserves that India had built as insurance against supply and price disruptions.

Besides, 7 million tonnes of low priced oil has been stored on floating ships, he said.

"Similarly, 25 million tonnes of oil has been kept at inland depots and tanks, refinery pipelines and product tanks," he said. "The oil stored is equivalent to 20 per cent of India's demand."

He said the slump in oil prices would lead to a reduction in the country's oil import bill while the evaporating consumption due to coronavirus lockdown will impact central and state government revenues.

While the 5.33 million tonnes of emergency storage -- enough to meet India's oil needs for 9.5 days -- was built in underground rock caverns in Mangalore and Padur in Karnataka and Visakhapatnam in Andhra Pradesh by the government, state-owned oil firms have crude oil and product tanks at refineries and other locations. Also, pipelines have some storage capacity.

Before the oil prices crashed to a low of $20 a barrel, the storages at Mangalore and Padur were half-empty and have now been filled by buying oil from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Iraq.

"Thanks to the initiative of the government of India we have successfully filled Padur SPR at very low crude oil prices as per schedule," the Strategic Petroleum Reserve Ltd (ISPRL) - the entity that manages the country's strategic petroleum reserves (SPR), said in a tweet.

Mangalore storage has a total capacity of 1.5 million tonnes. Of this, half had previously been hired by Abu Dhabi National Oil Co (ADNOC) to store its crude oil. The remaining half has now been filled by oil brought by state-owned oil firms.

Padur, the biggest of the three storages, has a total capacity of 2.5 million tonnes (about 17 million barrels). ADNOC had in November 2018 signed up to hire half of this capacity but never actually stored oil in it. :!: It was half full and now 1.25 million tonnes of crude oil sourced from Saudi Arabia have filled it up.

The 1.33 million tonne Visakhapatnam storage had a small amount of unfilled space that has been filled with Iraq crude oil.

Pradhan said 2 million tonnes of oil was bought and filled in SPR in the last three days.

While the oil to be stored in the three caverns will belong to the government, it isn't paying for it. State-owned Indian Oil Corp (IOC), Bharat Petroleum Corp Ltd (BPCL) and Hindustan Petroleum Corp Ltd (HPCL) as well as Mangalore Refinery and Petrochemicals Ltd (MRPL) have been asked to source oil from the Middle-East countries for storing the caverns, sources said, adding the government will reimburse them of this cost at a later date. :?:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/india-uses-low-crude-prices-to-stockpile-32-million-tonnes-of-oil/articleshow/75537730.cms

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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Vayutuvan » 06 May 2020 04:31

Mort Walker wrote:Gasoline and diesel for transportation will stay with us for more than ten years. Hydrogen, CNG, and NG and BioGas 8) will be the next generation of fuels for transportation.

a_bharat
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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby a_bharat » 06 May 2020 11:37

A few months back there was some discussion (probably on EV thread) about Aluminum-Air batteries and Indian Oil Corporation's collaboration with Israel's Phinergy on this technology.

Here is an update on this: IOC-Phinergy to begin metal-air battery field trials; in talks with auto companies

Metal-air batteries have great potential in electric mobility and stationary applications, aluminium is naturally available in the country with good extraction and recycling technologies.

"If the field trials are successful and if our talks with EV makers fructify, the metal-air batteries can complement the lithium-ion batteries to provide a hybrid solution for large-scale adoption of electric vehicles. In terms of range, it can easily offer over 600 km," the chairman said.

It can be noted that one of the biggest impediments facing EV adoption in the country is the lower battery range, coupled with public charging stations.

The best available range is under 150 km per charge now, even though Tata Motors had last month said it would offer up to 300 km for the electric version of its compact SUV Nexon but commercial supply is yet to begin.

The al-air batteries offer many an advantage like higher range, energy density, safety, longer life-cycle among others.


Al-Air batteries have 4-8 times the energy density of Li-ion, but can't be electrically recharged; need to be recycled. Since the smaller Li-ion battery can take care of day to day usage, the Al-Air battery serves the purpose of backup, solving the problem of range-anxiety.

Looks like a PHEV with a small Li-ion battery (10 kwh for 60 km) and an Al-Air battery for range extension is a great solution (no need for an internal combustion engine). Wish Indian auto companies show some innovation and realize this PHEV at the same cost as an ICE vehicle.

Rishirishi
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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 07 May 2020 02:36

nachiket wrote:Rishirishi you have been warned for repeatedly accusing other posters of being lobbyists. Address their arguments without ad hominem attacks.


My posts were backed with facts. Please feel free to check. But some people here claim that i cant count and started with derogatory language. And their arguments are the same as the car lobby has been presenting. There has been few facts. Fell free to check the links.

My claims are.

-EV (100% battery) will make ICE tech absolute. I could take 3 years or 6-7 years. let us see. It entirely depends how fast the cost of battery comes down.
-PHEV's are not going to be successful.
-EV's are much better to drive in every way. Noise, speed, ride quality, less breakdown (but range may be an issue)

Below are some additional links.

Seven Reasons Why The Internal Combustion Engine Is A Dead Man Walking

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2018/09/06/seven-reasons-why-the-internal-combustion-engine-is-a-dead-man-walking-updated/#4dac7d4b603f

Another interesting article.
https://archive.thinkprogress.org/electric-vehicles-gas-cars-cost-31a68bcdcee1/

Rishirishi
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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 07 May 2020 02:39

Raveen wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:
You also seem to represent a lobby of sort. I know this is how you work. The idea is to plant doubt and ridicule the opponent. The ICE lobby together with the oil lobby is working overtime to delay the EV. Please back up your bullshit.


Instructions not clear

What would you like me to backup - the fact that a gearbox is essentially the transmission? That Teslas and most pure EVs don't have transmission as such? that Li mining has adverse ecological impact? That Chi chi corona overlords controls the Li market? That fuel tax income will and is being replaced by other taxes? that demand and supply set pricing for commodities? That this isn't the Truman show and you aren't surrounded by lobbyists/people out to get you? That you are factually incorrect about all of the above?


Start with baking up the claim that EV's are adverse to the environment (in totality). I expect a proper answer, not some sarcasm or sidetracking.

Rishirishi
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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 07 May 2020 03:17

Mort Walker wrote:Rishirishi,

Anyone who points out the facts, then you claim they are part of the auto or oil lobbies. Facts bear out a different story. Pure EV car sale in India in FY2019 was less than 1500 units, in FY2018 it was 3400. Overall cars sales were low, but EV sales fell further. The reason is they are expensive to purchase and charging infrastructure is also costly.

There are other threads to discuss your EV fantasies. Stay out of this thread where people can post actual news related and relevant stories.


As this is an Oil and Gas thread, i post an article of how the EV's will impact the oil industry.


The giant French bank BNP Paris seems to disagree with you. Please take time to educate your self. In this report for professional investors.

Oil needs long-term break-evens of $10-$20/bbl to remain competitive in mobility. In this report we
introduce the concept of the Energy Return on Capital Invested (EROCI), focusing on the energy return
on a $100bn outlay on oil and renewables where the energy is being used specifically to power cars
and other light-duty vehicles (LDVs). For a given capital outlay on oil and renewables, how much useful
energy at the wheels do we get? Our analysis indicates that for the same capital outlay today, new
wind and solar-energy projects in tandem with battery electric vehicles (EVs)* will produce 6x-7x more
useful energy at the wheels than will oil at $60/bbl for gasoline-powered LDVs, and 3x-4x more than
will oil at $60/bbl for LDVs running on diesel. Accordingly, we calculate that the long-term break-even
oil price for gasoline to remain competitive as a source of mobility is $9-$10/bbl, and for diesel $17-19/
bbl.


https://docfinder.bnpparibas-am.com/api/files/1094E5B9-2FAA-47A3-805D-EF65EAD09A7F

Suraj
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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 07 May 2020 03:31

Rishirishi wrote:
nachiket wrote:Rishirishi you have been warned for repeatedly accusing other posters of being lobbyists. Address their arguments without ad hominem attacks.

My posts were backed with facts. Please feel free to check. But some people here claim that i cant count and started with derogatory language. And their arguments are the same as the car lobby has been presenting.

You were warned for responding to posters by accusing them of being members of lobbies. Doesn't matter if they actually are. You have no business making it so personal, so please stick to the topic at hand, regardless of how enthusiastic your response.

Further, please remember that there's a separate EV thread. You're derailing this one with talk about EVs.

Vips
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Re: Oil & Natural Gas: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 18 Jul 2020 09:33

MoU signed for India to develop strategic petroleum reserve in US.

India and the US have signed an MoU to develop a strategic petroleum reserve and the two countries are in advanced stage of discussion to store crude oil in America to increase India's stockpile, Union Minister of Petroleum and Natural Gas Dharmendra Pradhan said on Friday.

Pradhan co-chaired with his American counterpart Energy Secretary Dan Brouillette a virtual US-India Strategic Energy Partnership Ministerial.

"We have signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) to begin co-operation on strategic petroleum reserve. We are also in advanced phase of discussing of storing crude oil in US strategic reserve to increase India's strategic oil stockpile," Pradhan told reporters in a joint telephonic press conference. Responding to a question, the minister said the memorandum on cooperation in the field of strategic petroleum reserve was based on a proposal from the US after the recent historic drop in oil prices during coronavirus pandemic.

Following the historic drop in global crude oil process, the Indian government actively considered increasing its oil stockpile both inside the country and also overseas in countries like the US, he said. Very soon the government will be coming out with a concrete road map and proposal on how it can be unfolded, Pradhan said, adding that this would also include that New Delhi can invest in an American storage facility for India's requirement.

Co-operation in Strategic Petroleum Reserves Programme will further strengthen India's energy security and pave the way for greater US investments and collaborations in India's future SPR programmes, the minister said.

Brouillette said the MoU signed Friday will establish the process of moving forward. "What we would like to do is to begin the process of sharing with India, the establishment of a strategic reserve. And then accordingly, how does our SPR or Strategic Petroleum Reserve work here?" he said.

"It could ultimately look similar to what we've done with Australia, but there's no predetermined outcome as to where this conversation is going to grow into. We're excited to begin the conversation with India. We do think it's important for both of our nations" said the US Energy Secretary in response to a question.

The State Department said that the MoU on Strategic Petroleum Reserve will ensure a consistent energy supply, protects national security, and promote regional and global stability.

"The US-India Strategic Energy Partnership works to support sustainable energy development, in the 21st century and beyond. We collaborate on renewable energy, smart grids, and unconventional & clean energy sources research for the benefit of our people, now and in the future," South and Central Asia Bureau of the State Department said in a tweet.

Substantive wide-ranging conversation on the different pillars of India-US energy partnership took place during the India US Strategic Energy Partnership Ministerial, said India's Ambassador to the US Taranjit Singh Sandhu.

Minister Pradhan said that during the meeting, he expressed his keenness to work closely with the US government to realise the "full potential of our Strategic Energy Partnership and also invited the US Government and companies to join our initiatives under the Atmanirbhar Mission to further strengthen the strategic energy partnership".

Asserting that India-US relationship has witnessed significant growth and expansion in the last few years, especially through the energy component, the minister said that the Strategic Energy Partnership, was now recognised as a key constituent of this bilateral engagement.

"Our meeting today reflects both our Govt's commitment in further invigorating this partnership. It is, indeed, welcome that despite the challenges of the COVID-19 situation, we are committed to strengthen our energy linkages and work together on mutually-aligned priorities," he said.

India and the United States have made rapid strides in increasing bilateral hydrocarbon trade during the last three years, he said."Our bilateral hydrocarbons trade has touched USD 9.2 billion during 2019-20, a 93 per cent increase when compared to 2017-18 figures," Pradhan said.

The Indian government is committed to transform India into a gas-based economy and universalise power supply to all households, he said."Teams from both our countries are working to develop high-efficiency technologies with low to zero emissions through carbon capture, utilisation and storage," he said.

Established in April 2018 at the direction of President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Narendra Modi, recognising the strategic importance of energy to the US-India bilateral relationship, the SEP builds upon the two countries longstanding energy partnership and sets the stage for meaningful engagements through robust government-to-government cooperation and industry engagement


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