Intelligence & National Security Discussion

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 20 Sep 2011 23:07

Ashok Chaturvedi, former Chief of R&AW, has passed away

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 20 Sep 2011 23:19

prithvi wrote:Former Afgan President Burhanuddin Rabbani killed in Kabul

Who stands to benefit if talks between afghan govt and Taliban breaks down? I can think of only one entity.

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 20 Sep 2011 23:40

Ashok Chaturvedi, former Chief of R&AW, has passed away

Source?

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 20 Sep 2011 23:46

Vashishtha wrote:
Ashok Chaturvedi, former Chief of R&AW, has passed away
Source?

why would anyone just post someone's death news.. ? anyway I read it yesterday in one of the blog link posted in BRF .. could not find today..

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 20 Sep 2011 23:48

Vashishtha wrote:
Ashok Chaturvedi, former Chief of R&AW, has passed away
Source?

From Raman's Blog
SHRI ASHOK CHATURVEDI RAS---R.I.P.

Monday, September 19, 2011
B.RAMAN,CAMP NEW DELHI

I grieve over the death of Shri Ashok Chaturvedi, who headed the Research & Analysis Wing ( R&AW), India’s external intelligence agency, in his capacity as Secretary ( R ) during 2007-09, on the night of September 18,2011, in a Delhi hospital due to a multi-organ failure. He was 63----12 years younger than me.
...

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 20 Sep 2011 23:49

I posted it, because he was previous Chief of R&AW, and because this is the Intelligence and National Security discussion thread.

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 20 Sep 2011 23:51

ASPuar wrote:I posted it, because he was previous Chief of R&AW, and because this is the Intelligence and National Security discussion thread.

actually i was supporting you.. never mind .. lost in translation..

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 20 Sep 2011 23:53

prithvi wrote:why would anyone just post someone's death news.. ? anyway I read it yesterday in one of the blog link posted in BRF .. could not find today..

Because this is what this man did for National Security of India. From my link to Raman's blog post.

...
3.Ashok joined the R&AW some years after I did. He twice served under me----- in the 1980s as an Assistant Director in the Division that dealt with Khalistani terrorism and again in the 1990s as a Deputy Director in the same Division. He was posted to a Western country{I think this is a reference to Canada} which was a hotbed of Khalistani activities and developed a wide network of contacts through whom he collected valuable information on the activities of the Khalistani terrorists in the West. I had inspected his Station and recorded my kudos on his very good operational performance.

4.In any objective account on the role of the R&AW in the fight against Khalistani terrorism, the contribution of Ashok’s many successful operations should find prominent mention.
...

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 20 Sep 2011 23:59

BijuShet wrote:
prithvi wrote:why would anyone just post someone's death news.. ? anyway I read it yesterday in one of the blog link posted in BRF .. could not find today..
Because this is what this man did for National Security of India. From my link to Raman's blog post.
...
3.Ashok joined the R&AW some years after I did. He twice served under me----- in the 1980s as an Assistant Director in the Division that dealt with Khalistani terrorism and again in the 1990s as a Deputy Director in the same Division. He was posted to a Western country{I think this is a reference to Canada} which was a hotbed of Khalistani activities and developed a wide network of contacts through whom he collected valuable information on the activities of the Khalistani terrorists in the West. I had inspected his Station and recorded my kudos on his very good operational performance.

4.In any objective account on the role of the R&AW in the fight against Khalistani terrorism, the contribution of Ashok’s many successful operations should find prominent mention.
...

sorry for the misquote.. that I made earlier.. I meant "why would anyone post someone's death unless he has a verified source."

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 21 Sep 2011 00:02

Because this is what this man did for National Security of India. From my link to Raman's blog post

He did more bad for India's security than good in my opinion.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Sep 2011 06:22

Officials at top technical intel agency filmed women colleagues in toilet

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 21 Sep 2011 06:26

abhishek_sharma wrote:Officials at top technical intel agency filmed women colleagues in toilet

brilliant... what a coup... !!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Sep 2011 08:00

i guess they are going Paki way!

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Sep 2011 08:20

Vashishtha wrote:
Because this is what this man did for National Security of India. From my link to Raman's blog post
He did more bad for India's security than good in my opinion.

Could you please elaborate how?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Sep 2011 14:39

Related to IS to posting it here

Friend or Foe? Delhi, Mumbai blasts: Riven by corruption, Indian police is unprepared to tackle modern terror

URL rectified

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 26 Sep 2011 15:15

Link doesnt work.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 01 Oct 2011 15:48

The Paradoxes of Ethnographic Intelligence : A Case Study of British India

Upendra · Post by **Upendra** » 01 Oct 2011 15:57

Crackdown on anti-national NGOs
It's a shocking case of anti-national outfits posing as NGOs across the country. TIMES NOW has accessed intelligence documents listing over a hundred NGOs, which are not only violating rules but funding terrorists.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 04 Oct 2011 19:16

Spy games come to New York for UN General Assembly

.............
It's one of the most sophisticated intelligence-gathering operations in the U.S. and involves one of the FBI's most extensive electronic surveillance programs, according to former U.S. intelligence officials speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.

It's hardly a secret to foreign intelligence officers, who are skilled at evading surveillance.

The Iranians, for example, are known to rent multiple rooms in hotels around the city and sometimes cancel and re-book at the last moment to conceal who's staying where. In one instance, a former FBI official recalled, the Iranians crammed perhaps a dozen people into one room, leaving U.S. officials to conclude that at least one Iranian official was sleeping in the bathroom, probably in the bathtub.

It's not just the Iranians in New York. Former intelligence officials said the Israelis operate unilaterally in New York, often creating confusion.

One former CIA official said it's hard to distinguish Israelis because they will often enter the country under another nationality — like they did in Dubai, when Mossad operatives killed a Hamas official. In that case, Mossad agents used forged British, Irish and Australian passports.

Other intelligence agencies like Britain's Secret Intelligence Service, better known as the MI6, work more closely with the U.S. MI6 is allowed to operate in New York but any information its officers collect must be shared with U.S. intelligence, the official said.

...........

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 04 Oct 2011 20:25

Where is the world's best intel org the eye ass eye

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 04 Oct 2011 22:33

It doesn't need to go anywhere. Intelligence just comes to it naturally.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Oct 2011 22:43

UN has just become a den for intelligence agency to spy on almost any body and every body , there have been many complains in the past , it has just made CIA/FBI lives easier to spy on other nations there considering they are on their home turf and other western agency getting the free pass for the game.

sum · Post by **sum** » 06 Oct 2011 12:45

^^ Not really relevant to Indian intel but some trivia on Le Carre and general gup-shup on MI-6 in a column of the WEEK:
Spice up the spies

I went to see Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy last night. It’s the star-studded film of John Le Carré’s classic 1970s novel of Cold War intrigue. Le Carré has given his blessing to the film, even though a BBC version 30 years ago, starring Alec Guinness, was widely thought to be unbeatable. It was wonderful to watch, but Gary Oldman’s portrayal of George Smiley, a retired spook brought back to hunt down a Russian mole at the heart of MI6, didn’t quite have enough warmth. I was also disappointed that they didn’t dramatise Smiley’s only meeting with Karla, his Soviet nemesis, at Tihar Jail in Delhi.

What the film did brilliantly was the all pervading atmosphere of distrust that characterised the spy’s life during the Cold War. The story is Le Carré’s take on the Cambridge Spy Ring and in particular Kim Philby, who spent a lifetime spying for Russia while rising up the ranks of MI6. Le Carré never forgave him, a bitter sentiment that seeps into every pore of the darkly shot film. In the end, the unmasked traitor says that his decision was as much aesthetic as it was ideological. “The West has become so ugly don’t you think?”

Le Carré worked for Britain’s intelligence services (both MI5 and MI6) before becoming a full-time writer. It was impossible to continue the day job after the international success of his third novel, The Spy Who Came in from the Cold, in 1963. Graham Greene described it as the best spy story ever told. The Sunday Times correspondent in Bonn, where Le Carré was working as an MI6 officer, duly unmasked him as David Cornwell, printed a passport photo and his cover was blown.

In those days, the intelligence services attracted more colourful characters than it does now. Philby and other members of the Cambridge Spy Ring, including Guy Burgess and Donald Maclean, were larger than life, social butterflies, fiercely intelligent, hard drinkers and duplicitous to the core. Le Carré could draw on this well of flawed humanity for inspiration. Smiley, his greatest creation, was partly based on his boss at MI5, John Bingham, the 7th Baron Clanmorris.

Those of us who write espionage thrillers set in the 21st century have more of a problem. To be a spymaster today, you have to be a political operator, know your way around Whitehall and even be prepared to appear in public. The current chief of MI6, or ‘C’, as he is known, is Sir John Sawers, a former diplomat at the United Nations. Hardly a man of the shadows.

Assuming similar thing applies to RAW where you have to have the right political connections to make it up the ladder!

Part of the problem is the intelligence services’ new accountability. Ever since MI6 was put on a statutory basis in 1994, it has been morphing into another grey Whitehall department. Before 1994, its employees had considerably more freedom. These days, the job of a field officer involves a huge amount of paperwork, working within tight legal and political parameters. And that’s the challenge for spy writers: the modern business of spying is becoming boring.

Is this a flip side of too much accountability of the secret services?

I can still remember when I met my first spy. It was at a cocktail party at the British High Commissioner’s official residence in New Delhi and the old Cinni pedestal fans on the lawn were doing little to quell the evening heat. Waiters wearing white gloves and pagri turbans served gin and tonics on silver trays and the trees had been strung with pea lights and paper lanterns. I was new to the job of being a foreign correspondent, but even I had heard that Jamie, number two in the High Commission’s political unit, was a spook.

A group of British hacks gathered around him as he held court, puffing on his Cuban cigar in a white linen suit. He had walked straight out of the pages of a Graham Greene novel and we were mesmerised. It was only later that I discovered Jamie wasn’t, in fact, a spy. He liked people to think he was and did nothing to suppress the rumours. The person I talked to at the end of the evening, a soft-spoken, intelligent woman with plain features and straight hair, was the only member of MI6 at the party that night.

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 14 Oct 2011 15:23

why this thread is moving so slow ?

wig · Post by **wig** » 20 Oct 2011 08:16

an article from PTI published in daily excelsior of J&K: "IAF ‘leaks’ Army posts in J&K, NE" excerpts:

The IAF may have compromised the security of scores of sensitive Army posts in Jammu and Kashmir and North-East by disclosing their specific locations.

The IAF has given away the sensitive details about exact locations of Army forward bases, including their altitude along the border with China and Pakistan in a commercial open tender on its website.

The tender was issued earlier this month by the IAF to hire private and public sector helicopters for ferrying Army troops and cargo to forward bases in J&K and Arunachal Pradesh.

In the 30-page Request for Proposal (RFP), the IAF has given the exact latitude and longitude of helipads and the requirements for the loads to be carried to those bases. It also gives out the details of the heights at which the helipads are located.

When asked, senior Army officers said "such details were classified in nature and should not have been given out in an open tender."

However, IAF officials were not forthcoming with a reaction on how this information about the Army locations was put out in public domain.

The 84 helipads, whose details have been given out, are located in places including Kishtwar, Kupwara, Tangdhar, Kanzalwan, Parkian Gali in Jammu and Kashmir and Tawang, Daporjo, Bhawani Drop Zone, Yangtze, Forward Post Tapukhar and Taksing in Arunachal Pradesh near the Chinese boundary.

The RFP also gives out the dimensions of the helipads located in the sensitive areas in these two areas.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Oct 2011 08:45

Its a data spill. And someone should be taken to task. Most likely they need more training.

wig · Post by **wig** » 21 Oct 2011 11:01

follow up news article in the tribune datelined jammu : Army divided on IAF ‘leak’

After the IAF disclosed “sensitive” details about the exact locations of the forward bases of the Army, including their altitude along the border with China and Pakistan, the Army in Jammu and Kashmir itself has two views about the issue.

If one section of the Army thinks the IAF has done no wrong in circulating the information in a tender notice on its website, the other feels the “classified” information should not have been put in public domain.

The IAF issued the tender early this month to hire private and public sector helicopters to ferry Army troops and cargo to the forward bases in Jammu and Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh. “Once you agree upon outsourcing certain works to the private and public sectors, one has to share such information in the tenders,” said a senior Army officer.

“We see no harm done to the Army as in the present day scenario the battlefields have become virtually transparent with the invasion of technology,” he added.

In the 30-page request for proposal (RFP), the IAF had given the exact latitude and longitude of the helipads and the requirements of the loads to be carried to those bases. It also gave away the details of the heights at which the helipads were located in Jammu and Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh. After tendering the work, the private parties, in any case, would have come to know about the exact locations of the forward posts along the border, he added.

Furthermore, the IAF could not have gone ahead with the information without seeking the prior consent of the Army, a pre-requisite at the Ministry of Defence level, said the officer. “In today’s world when Google provides satellite imagery to a common man and when battlefields have become transparent with the invasion of technology, I see no harm in it,” he said.

However, another Army officer felt that the “classified” information regarding the forward posts, including the locations of the helipads, should not have been put in public domain. “By mentioning the latitudes and the longitudes you have disclosed the exact locations of the forward posts, which is simply not ethical when it comes to classified information,” he said. “I feel the IAF should have done it in better way without sharing the classified information,” he added.

The 84 helipads are located in places, including Kishtwar, Kupwara, Tangdhar, Kanzalwan, Parkian Gali in Jammu and Kashmir, and Tawang, Daporjo, Bhawani drop zone, Yangtze, Tapukhar and Taksing in Arunachal Pradesh, near the China border

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20111021/j&k.htm#5

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Oct 2011 19:33

See there is no clear understanding of issues here. Information is classified or its not. If its classified then it has to be protected. One can't have an opinion about whether its classified or not after its spilled.

Its not matter of opinon. Its a criminal matter once its spilled. OAS and all that.

Sorry for that senior officer who is divided in his mind for its not his job to be divided in his mind about the need to protect classified informatioin. Just because its in public domain doesn't make it unclassified. Its still classified. Why did the tender have to have that info in the open? Why couldn't the contractors be already cleared for that information and then bid for it?

I think someone goofed up very big here in treating classified information in a routine unclassifed manner and created a data spill.

Most likely the IAF procurement chaps didnt get trained in recognising classifed material and treated it as a routine matter.

Instead of making amends/corrective action that senior officer is justifying it. Wonder how senior he is?

The net efffect of that data spill is the Indian Army logistics support infrastructure in the high mountains has been revealed and confirmed by an IAF procurement tender.

Before this the challengers had to search google and specualte if they found a flat strip. Now the IAF gave guidance coordinated lat, long, and altitude/elevation of all those 84 locations (essentially targetting information) and the senior officer thinks it all ok!

Its not the IAF guys but this one who needs to get canned first.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 22 Oct 2011 02:51

Increasing Chinese Footprint in India's North West: What should India do?

:
:
:
India needs to increase its footprints in Afghanistan. Towards this end the recent agreements signed during the visit of President Karzai are insufficient to leave lasting imprints post 2014. India needs to increase its stakes in Afghanistan in the energy, minerals and power sectors, which have a longer presence and resultantly require construction of ancillaries like transportation, railways and housing besides the need to guard assets. Further, India must build on the training of the Afghan National Army and Police by enlarging the scope to include the provision and supply of arms and munitions, vehicles and stores as also training the Afghan Air Force. All these must be guaranteed by the US through trilateral agreements before its withdrawal from Afghanistan.
The presence of Chinese troops in PoK needs to be raised at the international level as it has serious ramifications on the future of the settlement of the J&K issue. Internally, the people of J&K need to be taken on board about the long term implications of China`s permanent presence in PoK.
The Indian military needs to factor the `collusivity` of China-Pakistan in its strategic and operational plans.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Oct 2011 00:53

IB chief heads to US for anti-terror skills

Shishir Gupta, Hindustan Times
New Delhi, October 18, 2011
Email to Author

With Pakistan-based pro-Khalistan separatists now threatening to open a second front in India after pan-Islamic jihadist groups, India is looking towards US for upgradation of its counter-terror capabilities with an aim to pre-empt future strikes through shared terrorist data-banks and advanced
technologies. Indian aims to pre-empt strikes through shared terrorist data banks and advanced technologies.

Intelligence Bureau (IB) director Nehchal Sandhu is leaving for a week-long trip to the US on Friday to attend the annual conference of International Association of Chiefs of Police at Chicago.

Sandhu will meet FBI director Robert Mueller and director of National Intelligence James R Clapper with specific focus on counter-terrorism.

Sandhu will also visit Washington and Baltimore as New Delhi is interested in three areas of anti-terror operations.

Firstly, under Clapper, the National Counter Terrorism Centre (NCTC) analyses intelligence with experts from FBI and CIA to pre-empt strikes within and outside the US. Home minister P Chidambaram visited NCTC in Virginia in 2009 and proposed an Indian version on similar lines. The Indian NCTC proposal is hanging fire since April 2010 in the CCS.

Secondly, the Terrorist Screening Centre set up in 2003 under the FBI houses an updated data bank of terrorists or a single consolidated watchlist of terrorists. Thirdly, Fusion Centres in the US — Sandhu will visit one such facility in Baltimore — is where intelligence agencies interact with state and local units.

Although Sandhu and his US counterparts will discuss activities of pan-Islamic jihadist groups like Lashkar-e-Toiba and Al Qaeda, the revival of Sikh terrorism is also an area of focus with FBI collaborating with IB.

However, Sandhu will not meet FBI lawyers and officials concerned with the David Headley and Tahawwur Rana case, as the two are being focused by the NIA as part of 26/11 probe.

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 27 Oct 2011 12:52

Musharaf's spin on Afgan_indo relations.

ISI may act if Afghanistan gets too close to India: Musharraf

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 28 Oct 2011 01:29

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/USPa ... elations17

Please see this video where Musharraf says ISI will go after India.

Former Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf spoke about U.S.-Pakistan relations. In his remarks he stated that American actions prior to September 11, 2011, were a "period of disaster" for his country, claiming the U.S. "abandoned" Pakistan and Afghanistan, which led to the rise of al-Qaida and the Taliban in the region. He responded to questions from the audience.
1 hour, 17 minutes | 31 Views

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 28 Oct 2011 19:47

Advani escapes bomb attack in Madurai

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 28 Oct 2011 23:01

--deleted, unrelated.--

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 28 Oct 2011 23:44

what has an incident that occurred on October 11 got to do with an incident one day ago ? What are you trying to say here ?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 31 Oct 2011 15:08

RAW discovered that PRC operates a chinese version of the guantanamo for terror suspects. Intel came via tibetan exiles escaping to desh.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 31 Oct 2011 15:15

Acharya wrote:Musharraf says ISI will go after India.

As if all these while ISI was treating India with a Kids glove and we should be grateful to the ISI on that , the threat from ISI will always be the same and they will always go after India ,Afghanistan or no

Musharraf is any way a crook and he just made that statement from his Musharaf

sum · Post by **sum** » 31 Oct 2011 15:22

^^ India should just throw in a sentence that "RAW will now go after Pak" and watch the fun unfold as multiple chaddis will get twisted all over Pakland ( even without anything being done by SDREs, the TSPians shiver at the mention of RAW!!)

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 31 Oct 2011 19:09

China could do Kargil on India, warns IDSA

In my opinion, this may hold true ;
1) The assumption is China is already encircling India. They have come very close to Tamilnadu via Srilanka.
2) They have come to POK already in the name of build up of infrastructure etc
3) They will not wait till 2012 to 2015 by the time India will improve its FIRE power(New fighter jets/MMRCA/TEJA's), sub power (Scorpenes), Aircraft carrier's, ICBM, Guns(ultra light howoitzers from uncle), development of roads & infrastructre in border araes (Ladakh, Central Sector, Sikkim and Arunachal)

If this happens, what are our defences, at this point of time ?

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Nov 2011 11:10

^^ Gen V.P.Malik was on TV yesterday on a panel discussion on this very report and he mentioned that our infra in the NE is currently pitiable and raising of strike mountain corps and 2 divisions etc has no meaning till we get basic infra and launchpads for the existing units in place which is currently in a bad shape.