India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

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member_23694
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby member_23694 » 07 Aug 2014 23:48

Just turn DRDO into a DARPA like agency and let privates slowly start doing most of the heavy lifting.


Always been advocating this. However an additional point. To prevent the private players from becoming another "just assemblers" for foreign JV partners additional safegaurds should be inplace for % of imported contents in the product, availability and sanction proof nature of critical stuff of the product , forex spent as a percentage of total product cost, technology availability of the product with the local JV partner (in case of private parties bidding with foreign JV partners).
Once the minimum quality requirement of the services are met for such products additional points given to bidders who comes up with some serious export plans for such products.
Point is simple- damn care who makes the product , DPSU or private , till the product meets the services timeline, quality and quantity with the right price.
DRDO [ along with other local vendors ]focus only on development of strategic stuff which no one will give us , and once developed the production part goes to the most eligible agency after alignment with government and the services (with certain criteria) [ex. Vikas engine manufactured by Godrej and others.]

NRao
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby NRao » 08 Aug 2014 01:52

Some additional points:

US defence secretary Hagel arrives in India, Javelin missile deal on cards



The US will make India an offer to "co-produce and co-develop" state-of-the-art Javelin infra-red-guided anti-tank missiles during defence secretary Charles 'Chuck' Hagel’s three-day visit. Hagel arrived in New Delhi on Thursday and will be meeting Prime Minister Narendra Modi and defence minister Arun Jaitley on Friday.

The high probability of the US bringing up the Javelin deal springs from US President Barack Obama’s July 7 letter to Modi, in which he sought closer defence and strategic ties and directly made the missile offer to the PM. He also wrote that Hagel would be discussing the Javelin details with his Indian counterparts during his visit.

India is currently looking to buy some 3,600 anti-tank missiles with 900 launchers at a cost of $700 million (Rs 4,284 crore approximately) through the foreign military sales route. The army is in desperate need of an anti-tank missile as the indigenous Nag missile continues to be a work in progress.

Under the Javelin deal, India and US would jointly produce the third-generation FGM-148 missile through transfer of technology (ToT) and jointly develop a fourth-generation missile that can successfully hit a target 2.5km away. The weapon uses fire and forget technology where the launcher locks on to the target via thermal image and guides the missile through infra-red technology without being in the line of sight.

While India is keen on co-production, it wants full transfer of technology and the talks on Friday will be centred on this. “The Javelin makers are willing to do 97% ToT and want to withhold the algorithms related to core infra-red seeker technology,” said a senior defence ministry official.

Hagel is also expected to remind India that the window for purchase of Chinook and Apache helicopters at current rates will close by September. The US, which has kept aside six Boeing C-17 cargo aircraft for possible purchase by India, is extremely concerned about slow decision-making in the Indian defence ministry and Hagel will be looking to find a new equilibrium with Jaitley.

Apart from the Javelin deal, talks with Hagel will centre around a new defence framework agreement for 2015-20, a tri-lateral maritime exercise with Japan, and the regional environment, including the rise of China and the situation in Af-Pak and West Asia.

Maritime security is another top priority for both India and the US in the backdrop of Chinese attempts to acquire long legs in the South China Sea and Indian Ocean. With US capabilities declining in the Asia-Pacific and India unable to cope with Beijing on naval upgradation, both sides need each other to maintain the balance of forces in the region.

Hagel's visit follows a similar stop in the country last week by secretary of state John Kerry and commerce secretary Penny Pritzker aimed at wooing a key ally in Asia.

Vayutuvan
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Vayutuvan » 08 Aug 2014 04:45

>> While India is keen on co-production, it wants full transfer of technology and the talks on Friday will be centred on this. “The Javelin makers are willing to do 97% ToT and want to withhold the algorithms related to core infra-red seeker technology,” said a senior defence ministry official.

Anybody know what kind of algorithms are used? Dynamic control?

Rien
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Rien » 08 Aug 2014 10:19

rohitvats wrote:
Rien wrote: That's very unconvincing. There are already 75 Pilatus here. There are also plenty of imported trainers already, so there is no urgent rush to meet requirements as the IAF states. Rather the issue is of cost. Rather than a Pilatus, what is needed is the much cheaper HAL gear.


What do you mean by 'plenty'?


Victor already answered earlier. We already have 75 Pilatus. There's no need for more. If the IAF wants a faster induction, it must spend more money for concurrent prototypes to speed up development. The IAF, as usual, only wants imports rather than development.

rohitvats wrote:Are you aware of the total requirement of Basic Trainer as against what is the current inventory in IAF of these types? And what do you think is being used for Stage II training at present for which IJT was planned as a replacement? How long can they be sustained in the IAF service?


I don't see any relevance for Stage II training. We're talking about Stage 1, the HTT-40. You've gone off on a tangent. Pilatus is stage 1. And the IAF claimed that the HTT was more expensive than the Pilatus.

But an actual lifecyle analysis shows the HTT is far cheaper than the expensive videshi maal.

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 059_1.html

rohitvats wrote:Are you out of your mind here? Fire Air Marshals because HAL has screwed up on a program which is running 7-8 years late? And for which IAF has placed orders for 73 aircraft? Think before you spout such nonsense.


Firing people for incompetent decisions is the way everyone handles things. There is no reason the IAF is exempt from this rule.

vic
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby vic » 08 Aug 2014 10:37

Israeli apart from lip service are also not giving us any major technology as shown by deals of LRSAM and FSAPDS rounds.

abhik
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby abhik » 08 Aug 2014 13:25

NRao wrote:Some additional points:

US defence secretary Hagel arrives in India, Javelin missile deal on cards

India is currently looking to buy some 3,600 anti-tank missiles with 900 launchers at a cost of $700 million (Rs 4,284 crore approximately) through the foreign military sales route. The army is in desperate need of an anti-tank missile as the indigenous Nag missile continues to be a work in progress.

Generous sprinkling of BS.


rohitvats
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby rohitvats » 09 Aug 2014 09:08

Rien wrote: Victor already answered earlier. We already have 75 Pilatus. There's no need for more. If the IAF wants a faster induction, it must spend more money for concurrent prototypes to speed up development. The IAF, as usual, only wants imports rather than development.


First - the 75 trainers have not arrived yet.

Secondly, on what basis have you decided that 'there is no need for more'? Are you aware of the training requirement based on number of rookie pilots inducted in each batch, flying hours required per student for Stage 1, availability of aircraft and associated variables to make this bombastic statement? Or, is this typical of making inane statements without any basis in reality?

IAF wants a trainer aircraft. Period. And given the track record of HAL with IJT, I would be very wary of giving them any more order(s) for a new aircraft unless they get their own house in order. Coming to spending of money by IAF, it wants to spend that money on Pilatus rather than give HAL to blow it all away. As it is, HAL is one hell of a profitable organization. Let them put their money where their mouth is and for once, compete against established products and players.

After all, considering that many here believe that developing a BTT is no big-shake, HAL should be able to come up with a prototype in no time. They've promised one prototype will fly in 2015 - lets wait and watch.

Firing people for incompetent decisions is the way everyone handles things. There is no reason the IAF is exempt from this rule.


Just because you think so based on unfounded assumptions, does not mean anything of this sort is going to happen.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Rahul M » 09 Aug 2014 09:26

please start a new thread with a link to this page in its first post.


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