Indian Education System
Re: Indian Education System
srikumar avare, there is BA math in India too. or used to be.
Re: Indian Education System
As an arts graduate myself with conviction I can say that the B.A English course which I did; did NOT have any special courses/subject which trained a person to be creative, do research, do analytical reasoning or for that matter even improve communicative skills. The English I learnt (and which benefitted me in my career) was taught at a school which had a different philosophy/methodology when it comes to teaching that language.hgupta wrote:Technical skills can be acquired easily however people skills are not easily acquirable.
In case 'ethical judgement' was a quality acquired by doing B.A courses in India, we might have a very honest and super efficient bureaucracy (at state level). Because most of the staff out there are NOT technical graduates. May be your understanding of Bachelor of Arts course is different from what is taught in India. My major was English literature with two subsidiary courses World History & British History. I can understand English taught for communication purposes, but how much of job value does appreciating English literature (Shelley, Keats et.al) have? Again World History is good to know, but what about British History? Other than of academic interest what value is there in learning about Richard the Lionheart, Cuthberts, Henries, Stewarts etc.?oral communication, critical thinking, ethical judgment, working effectively in teams, written communication, and the real-world application of skills and knowledge
I know B.A graduates who have excelled in life. But we must also consider the areas from where they come from, their school education as well as the class of society they come from. For example B.A graduates from Bangalore, Mumbai or Delhi will have excellent mastery over languages such as English. But a B.A graduate from say Srikrishnapuram, Channapatna etc may not have that calibre. My seven year old child today speaks far better English than what a 10th Std "English Medium" child from a rural area can speak. That is because of the city we currently stay at. Yes, teaching profession is what many of them land up in. But that vacancies are also very limited.Aldonkar wrote:Many BAs become teachers, or go into "Management" of large corporations.
I actually shudder to think what would have happened to me if I did not learn computers (as a hobby) and a gentlemen enterprenuer gave me a first break. It was that time when folks like Wipro, Infosys etc wanted B.Techs for even post of peonsvimal wrote:Maybe a top percentile gets a chance but most of them are pretty unemployable.
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
I agree with you hereSriKumar wrote:Actually, arts and humanities are really important and science/engg students should get some exposure to it.
![Cool 8)](./images/smilies/cool.gif)
A personal observation (mainly observing IT/Vity crowd). Many of the so called 'technical wizards' (and high scorers in exams) do not have any kind of practical 'street smart' knowledge. In my company's internal forum, I have seen posts asking if "Police FIRs can be filed by sending an e-mail"
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Re: Indian Education System
I don't think so such a course now exists. Or it did not exist in late 1990s. My university had lots of courses - including a short lived B.A Acturial Science. But Maths was always B.Sc Maths. Earlier there seems to be some 'Honours' courses, but that also seems to have vanished.Vayutuvan wrote:srikumar avare, there is BA math in India too. or used to be.
Re: Indian Education System
What do you mean unemployable? like in the desired fields or what? Maybe in India they are, but here in the US there is no issue of people with liberal arts degrees finding jobs in any field as long as they follow up with learning technical or business skills along the way. Doesnt have to be engineering degrees but skills needed to do the job and grow.vimal wrote:Hgupta I wanted to stress that the quantity of BA grads far outstrips the demand for them every where. Maybe a top percentile gets a chance but most of them are pretty unemployable.
I am increasingly of the view that college is not the end of all place to learn. College whether it be liberal arts or science/engineering, is not enough to do well in life. I view that a willing to learn new stuff, being able to communicate with others orally & written, getting your viewpoints across effectively and assimilating other viewpoints and incorporating those into your work, networking, collaborative skills, and the ability to adapt in a timely manner are what you need to succeed in any field of any kind. Doesn't matter if you re at the bottom with everyone else ahead of you in terms of technical or math or scientific skills. As long as you have those skills I mentioned and you have the work ethic, you can succeed.
I have a B.S. in computer engineering and JD in law and various certifications in several skill sets and I find the most successful people have those skills I mentioned. They were not at the top of their class or didn't have impressive degrees but they had what it took to succeed in this modern day and age.
Re: Indian Education System
Hgupta Ji,hgupta wrote:You might be surprised that degrees with english literature or liberal arts variety or whatever still have value in the US. In medium sized and large organizations, employers are looking for workers who have people skills, not necessarily technical skills to manage employees and minimize conflicts and achieve teamwork and better efficiency in worker interactions. Technical skills can be acquired easily however people skills are not easily acquirable.vimal wrote:Not just India, even in other countries like USA, degrees like English literature is laughed upon as useless. Eventually these folks tend end up learning some computer skills (STEM skills fwiw) like office or powerpoint and get employed as clerks. In USA a lot of these folks also join a bootcamp (NIIT anyone) and then join a startup to get a toehold in the tech industry. Many of them also rant against the H1Bs stealing their jobs.
Liberal arts degree programs encourage important skills, such as creativity, research, analytical reasoning, innovative problem-solving, and communicative skills. Based on my experience in working with several fortune 500 companies and smaller companies, most employers value oral communication, critical thinking, ethical judgment, working effectively in teams, written communication, and the real-world application of skills and knowledge. Technical skill is a must too but they view those kind of skills as easily acquirable during the course of employment. The other skills mentioned are not that easily acquirable and hard to replace. For instance, I was involved in a university affiliated computer project that relied on grants from several companies to keep going. There was a graduate student from India who had excellent technical skill sets but did not have good communication skills orally or written. Over the year, the professors and even other graduate students (including me) tried to help him out by teaching the communication skills set but in the end it wasn't enough. Even the company realized that he was smart but he couldnt do the required job of documenting and illustrating on paper so the knowledge could be passed on and he was let go. He didn't understand how important communication skills were in a team setting where IP knowledge must be easily translated to other team members in a way that they can hit the ground running in short order. In my experience, I found that people who have excellent communication skills and creativity and have sufficient analytical reasoning and okay technical knowledge tend to be promoted to managers and upper level management all the way to the very top. Some of them had liberal arts degrees.
For a very good example of this, take no further look than Steve Jobs. Yes he dropped out of college but he went to a liberal arts college, Reeds College and he started APPLE with his buddy Wozniak who was a technogeek genius. However due to his own introvert personality and lack of communication skills, Wozniak was not the face of APPLE but Jobs was and he was not even a technogeek genius. He just mastered in communication skills and creativity.
Actually the points that you have raised are only half true. People being hired in large organizations with only communication skills will be placed in HR dept and without any knowledge of the technical stuff they are not in a position to resolve anything technical. the best they can do is use standard company phrases "fish-bone process", "8 step", "6 step" ways to resolve and these don't get to the bottom of people or personnel issues.
The candidate that you have given an example of would be an outlier, especially if you are looking to hire a fresh graduate or starter level. If what you said is true, a lot of Chinese or East Asian folks will not get hired in technical fields in the US. It is true that when people are being promoted communication skills are also important as the concerned team lead/manager has to talk to multi-functional teams, but that is not be all end all scenario.
The highlighted and underlined quote from you would look good as a job advertisement/brochure, but in the real world there are very very few who are hired based on all that you have quoted and even fewer who get promoted higher based on that. most of the promotions are on the work that was done recently and how much the guy promoting believes you can do a good job.
My cousin working in IT in hyderabad company had issues with his manager giving extra job at around 9-10 in the night when he was about to call it a day or work during the weekend didn't promote him and promoted somebody else in the group who had less experience and did less work than him and he raised it during the appraisal and all the HR dept guys said was some mumbo jumbo about "being team player" and "being part of a greater machine/good" "help me help you become better" shtick. Things looked up for him as the guy promoted couldn't handle the work from overseas and this was also the work my cousin had to cover for the guy before his promotion. So humanities based HR didn't do jack and its this way in most IT companies in India medium or big.
Steve jobs is a rare person that was quite good at marketing (not communication mind you), communication is about getting your point across and also listening to the others pov to come to an agreed solution. Steve Jobs essentially sold a bunch of stuff telling the other person his life was missing something if he didn't posses apple products or some such. You will hear enough horror stories about his workmanship or getting others to work in Apple. That is essentially a failure to communicate. He ran a tight iron-fisted ship in Apple and got most of the people aligned to his goals and the results are there for everyone to see. His going to liberal arts college has little to do with his work in Apple (might have helped him or shaped his world view at the very maximum), as was his alleged LSD use and spending time in India in his early days.
Re: Indian Education System
Largest single private donation received (Rs 425 crore ~ 60 Million USD) by IISc after its founding. And that too for state-of-art biomedical R&D and healthcare services!
Susmita & Subroto Bagchi and Radha & NS Parthasarathy will donate Rs 425 crore to establish a multi-speciality hospital on campus!
Susmita & Subroto Bagchi and Radha & NS Parthasarathy will donate Rs 425 crore to establish a multi-speciality hospital on campus!
Re: Indian Education System
Sorry for the late reply. Very unlikely as I was trying to make the point that this lad was taking the easy options in life. He dropped out of a Medical degree, took a BS in History (the easiest course in the UK) and then use a back door to get a LLB and a job in the City. I lastsaw him a couple of years ago and he had just left his parents house (aged about 30) and was enjoying a life of luxury.SriKumar wrote: Aldonkar:
Is your friend's son following the footsteps of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi? Gandhi too got his law degree from Univ. College, London.
I was not aware that I shared an alma mater with MK Gandhi as I was not a fan of MKG. I grew up in a very rough part of Kenya and one had to stand up and fight. MKG's pacific ideals did not sit well with my experience. Going off topic now but when I was a student many Asian (in the UK code for from the Indian subcontinent) students in East London were attacked by skinheads; the racist police did nothing and the Indian HC advised following Gandhian forbearance. The students , who were mainly Indians from East Africa, formed a vigilante group and fought the skinheads with hockey sticks. End of problem.
Re: Indian Education System
Extraordinary. Very magnanimous indeed.Amber G. wrote:Largest single private donation received (Rs 425 crore ~ 60 Million USD) by IISc after its founding. And that too for state-of-art biomedical R&D and healthcare services!
Re: Indian Education System
Students going abroad: PM nudges pvt firms to expand medical education
https://www.rediff.com/news/report/stud ... 220226.htm
Why are Indian Students going to Ukraine and Wuhan and studying Medicine there despite the language barrier?
https://www.rediff.com/news/report/stud ... 220226.htm
Why are Indian Students going to Ukraine and Wuhan and studying Medicine there despite the language barrier?
Re: Indian Education System
Folks, please see below a thread of tweets I https://twitter.com/Dumal48726499?t=Oi5 ... NKqOw&s=09 put out regarding the conflict in date that IISc, for their KVPY exam, and CMI for their entrance exam, have picked. Both exams can potentially lead school students to pursue a small number of high quality BSc programs in science/math in India.
Any ideas on how to take this further such that one or the other institution changes their exam date? Please also retweet, if you can, so that this could reach people of influence. I am fairly new to Twitter and hardly know what works and what doesn't.
If no progress is seen in the next week, I plan to reach out to lawyers to file a petition in the court. Any pointers on how to go about this and how this might work?
-------
1/7 KVPY, conducted by @iiscbangalore & funded by @IndiaDST, is not only a rare scholarship program for sci/maths education but is also a mode of entry to BSc programs @ IISc/ IISERs. After delays due to court orders & COVID, it is currently rescheduled to May 22 (pm for SX/SB)
2/7 @PrinSciAdvGoI CMI is one of India's leading institutes for pure and applied mathematics education and research; selects students for BSc and MSc courses through entrance exam, scheduled this year, on May 22 pm
3/7 CMI, which had announced the date on their website since January, claims it infeasible to change it at this stage. (Thank you, CMI, for the prompt email response.) KVPY/IISc, which has claimed the same date since late February, has not responded to tweets or email yet
4/7 This conflict in dates is not about impact to students choosing between less similar courses such as the professional (eng/med/law, etc) courses or humanities. The two exams lead to very same BSc programs that allow students to specialise in mathematics and physics etc.
5/7 If they need only Sundays that fall in the preferred timeframe, wouldn't it have been prudent for the organisers to check with each other and coordinate their plans. Or couldn't they have announced tentative dates before finalizing each. Won't days other than Sundays work?
6/7 With intake at these institutions already slim, letting aspiring students to pick one or the other is a mindless and uncaring way of cutting down their chances/choice. It would befit our leading institutions to be more cooperative in organising critical activities
7/7 They should also be more reponsible and responsive to students, who are ultimately the central purpose for the public funding to these institutions. As recent history suggests, it will be immensely disruptive to all if the judiciary had to remind them of their responsibility
-----
Any ideas on how to take this further such that one or the other institution changes their exam date? Please also retweet, if you can, so that this could reach people of influence. I am fairly new to Twitter and hardly know what works and what doesn't.
If no progress is seen in the next week, I plan to reach out to lawyers to file a petition in the court. Any pointers on how to go about this and how this might work?
-------
1/7 KVPY, conducted by @iiscbangalore & funded by @IndiaDST, is not only a rare scholarship program for sci/maths education but is also a mode of entry to BSc programs @ IISc/ IISERs. After delays due to court orders & COVID, it is currently rescheduled to May 22 (pm for SX/SB)
2/7 @PrinSciAdvGoI CMI is one of India's leading institutes for pure and applied mathematics education and research; selects students for BSc and MSc courses through entrance exam, scheduled this year, on May 22 pm
3/7 CMI, which had announced the date on their website since January, claims it infeasible to change it at this stage. (Thank you, CMI, for the prompt email response.) KVPY/IISc, which has claimed the same date since late February, has not responded to tweets or email yet
4/7 This conflict in dates is not about impact to students choosing between less similar courses such as the professional (eng/med/law, etc) courses or humanities. The two exams lead to very same BSc programs that allow students to specialise in mathematics and physics etc.
5/7 If they need only Sundays that fall in the preferred timeframe, wouldn't it have been prudent for the organisers to check with each other and coordinate their plans. Or couldn't they have announced tentative dates before finalizing each. Won't days other than Sundays work?
6/7 With intake at these institutions already slim, letting aspiring students to pick one or the other is a mindless and uncaring way of cutting down their chances/choice. It would befit our leading institutions to be more cooperative in organising critical activities
7/7 They should also be more reponsible and responsive to students, who are ultimately the central purpose for the public funding to these institutions. As recent history suggests, it will be immensely disruptive to all if the judiciary had to remind them of their responsibility
-----
Re: Indian Education System
Please watch the last few minutes about efforts towards improving Medical education in the country.
Re: Indian Education System
Breaking Big news from IIT Kanpur:
One of IITK alumnus Mr Rakesh Gangwal, Co-Founder of IndiGo airlines has made one of the largest personal donations with a 100 crore contribution focused on supporting the School of Medical Sciences & Technology at IIT Kanpur.
![Image](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPgnf7lVUAAyKe6?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
One of IITK alumnus Mr Rakesh Gangwal, Co-Founder of IndiGo airlines has made one of the largest personal donations with a 100 crore contribution focused on supporting the School of Medical Sciences & Technology at IIT Kanpur.
Re: Indian Education System
Another big contribution by US Based, but IITK alum for the medical school at IIT Kanpur.
(From Anil and Kumud Bansal)
IIT Kanpur gets USD 2.5 million from Alumnus foundation for new medical school
(From Anil and Kumud Bansal)
IIT Kanpur gets USD 2.5 million from Alumnus foundation for new medical school
Re: Indian Education System
India's ancient roots in Math and Science is being revived in Karnataka. This paper has been prepared under the chairmanship of an eminent IIT professor. It has been vetted and accepted by the state government.
Pythagoras’ theorem has Vedic roots: Karnataka panel
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 775392.cms
![Image](https://static.toiimg.com/thumb/imgsize-23456,msid-92775401,width-600,resizemode-4/92775401.jpg)
Pythagoras’ theorem has Vedic roots: Karnataka panel
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 775392.cms
Karnataka has proposed teaching all school children Sanskrit as a third language and introducing Manusmriti and ancient numerical systems like Bhuta-sankhya and katapayadi-sankhya paddhati in the syllabus. Besides, one of its proposals for inclusion in the new NEP school syllabus, says students should be encouraged to question “how fake news such as Pythagoras theorem, apple falling on Newton’s head etc. are being created and propagated. Gravity and Pythagoras have roots in Vedic maths.
Lamenting the current system of education, the paper attributes it to “policies at both the state and the central level which in the garb of secularisation have systematically ushered our impressionable minds into the zone of rootlessness and ignorance of the achievements by their very own ancestors
The paper pointed out that many of the Smrti literature “have been relegated to obscurity or being proscribed due to incomplete and poor understanding of their ethos and content”. It said: “For instance, even though Manusmirti contains lofty ideals of public and societal good, it has become controversial to the extent that its very name solicits unwarranted bemoan from a section of our society.
![Image](https://static.toiimg.com/thumb/imgsize-23456,msid-92775401,width-600,resizemode-4/92775401.jpg)
Re: Indian Education System
When I was in elementary school my teacher used give punishment to wayward kids. Cross your hands, hang on to ears and squat 25 times. That was at that time considered punishment. Now it is called SUPERBRAIN YOGA that will improve your IQ etc. (these are called Gunjillu in telugu) So what did my teacher know that long ago?
Step 1. Standing up straight with your shoulders back. Remove any obstructions, uncomfortable clothes, or jewelry.
Step 2. Connect your tongue to your palate, this connects the electrical circuit of the body together.
Step 3. Clasp your earlobes, using the fingers on your right hand on the left ear. Now use the fingers on your left hand on your right ear, and hold through the duration of the exercise.
Step 4. Stand with feet apart, ready to engage your glutes and core as you squat down.
Step 5. Squat down comfortably, inhaling as you squat down, and exhaling as you stand up
I have a video about this. I will post it later when i figure how to.
Step 1. Standing up straight with your shoulders back. Remove any obstructions, uncomfortable clothes, or jewelry.
Step 2. Connect your tongue to your palate, this connects the electrical circuit of the body together.
Step 3. Clasp your earlobes, using the fingers on your right hand on the left ear. Now use the fingers on your left hand on your right ear, and hold through the duration of the exercise.
Step 4. Stand with feet apart, ready to engage your glutes and core as you squat down.
Step 5. Squat down comfortably, inhaling as you squat down, and exhaling as you stand up
I have a video about this. I will post it later when i figure how to.
Re: Indian Education System
Some news from my alma mater IIT Kanpur... (Similar news items from other IIT's and premier institutes in India)
As the placements season kicks off -
I - Impressive! ₹40,000,00 (~$500,000) starting salary+comp for a fresh graduate from IIT Kanpur.
IIT-K student hits record ₹4 crore placement jackpot.
https://www.livemint.com/industry/human-resource/iitkanpur-student-gets-record-salary-offer-in-placement-season-11669919505272.html
- The placement season 2022-23 offers have broken all the previous records. Till now,145 companies (100+ companies offering Core/Engineering & Software domains) have participated.
- At the end of day 3 of phase 1, 808 students have secured the jobs. The highest domestic package is a record-breaking Rs. 1.9 Crores. 74 students have received international offers and 33 offers are above Rs 1 crore.
I find it very encouraging that compared to earlier days *most* graduates are getting domestic offers. (When I graduated (in late 1960's) - a huge percentage -- nearly all top students -- will choose to go to USA)
As the placements season kicks off -
I - Impressive! ₹40,000,00 (~$500,000) starting salary+comp for a fresh graduate from IIT Kanpur.
IIT-K student hits record ₹4 crore placement jackpot.
https://www.livemint.com/industry/human-resource/iitkanpur-student-gets-record-salary-offer-in-placement-season-11669919505272.html
From the IITK sources:[Even though ]The number of global offers has gone down as many firms are on a hiring freeze and
many bluechip companies have stayed away, scalded by the ongoing economic slowdown. [still]
High-frequency and quantitative trading firms snapped up top talent from the Indian Institutes of Technology (IIT) on Thursday, offering salaries as high as ₹4 crore, as the placements season kicked off at the country’s premier engineering schools.
- The placement season 2022-23 offers have broken all the previous records. Till now,145 companies (100+ companies offering Core/Engineering & Software domains) have participated.
- At the end of day 3 of phase 1, 808 students have secured the jobs. The highest domestic package is a record-breaking Rs. 1.9 Crores. 74 students have received international offers and 33 offers are above Rs 1 crore.
I find it very encouraging that compared to earlier days *most* graduates are getting domestic offers. (When I graduated (in late 1960's) - a huge percentage -- nearly all top students -- will choose to go to USA)
Re: Indian Education System
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/edu ... 822191.cms
How do guru log here view this development? One on hand we should wish our premier Indian institutes to set up more campuses abroad, on the other hand premier foreign univs are setting up centres in India...
While more intense bidirectional exchange will be ultimately always good, I'm curious to know the pros and cons and how India can maximise its benefits.
How do guru log here view this development? One on hand we should wish our premier Indian institutes to set up more campuses abroad, on the other hand premier foreign univs are setting up centres in India...
While more intense bidirectional exchange will be ultimately always good, I'm curious to know the pros and cons and how India can maximise its benefits.
Re: Indian Education System
If we are making it a free market, then more competition is good. The existing pvt universities have to improve their delivery or perish. It may put more pressure on govt premier institutes to retain their talent.Cyrano wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/edu ... 822191.cms
How do guru log here view this development? One on hand we should wish our premier Indian institutes to set up more campuses abroad, on the other hand premier foreign univs are setting up centres in India...
While more intense bidirectional exchange will be ultimately always good, I'm curious to know the pros and cons and how India can maximise its benefits.
It may also give India an option of getting students from rest of the world who would prefer somewhat lower costs of living during the stay.
If Indians can study in China and Ukraine why not in India itself.
Re: Indian Education System
Good move. Will lift general educational standards. Hopefully there will be no reservation.
Re: Indian Education System
From: IIT --- newsflash about GATE2023..
Also noticed that some IIT's (IIT Kanpur for example) are now offering MBA.GATE 2023 examination is being organized by IIT Kanpur. The first phase of the examination was successfully completed this weekend. The overall attendance of the candidates was approximately 76%.
Congratulations to the entire GATE 2023 team of Indian Institute of Technology Kanpur and all zonal GATE teams at different IITs.
Re: Indian Education System
These so called high job packages have completely poisoned the atmosphere at IIT Kanpur (and related places) and completely sucked away the talent from on-campus research programmes and startups etc.Amber G. wrote:Some news from my alma mater IIT Kanpur... (Similar news items from other IIT's and premier institutes in India)
As the placements season kicks off -
I - Impressive! ₹40,000,00 (~$500,000) starting salary+comp for a fresh graduate from IIT Kanpur.
IIT-K student hits record ₹4 crore placement jackpot.
https://www.livemint.com/industry/human-resource/iitkanpur-student-gets-record-salary-offer-in-placement-season-11669919505272.htmlFrom the IITK sources:[Even though ]The number of global offers has gone down as many firms are on a hiring freeze and
many bluechip companies have stayed away, scalded by the ongoing economic slowdown. [still]
High-frequency and quantitative trading firms snapped up top talent from the Indian Institutes of Technology (IIT) on Thursday, offering salaries as high as ₹4 crore, as the placements season kicked off at the country’s premier engineering schools.
- The placement season 2022-23 offers have broken all the previous records. Till now,145 companies (100+ companies offering Core/Engineering & Software domains) have participated.
- At the end of day 3 of phase 1, 808 students have secured the jobs. The highest domestic package is a record-breaking Rs. 1.9 Crores. 74 students have received international offers and 33 offers are above Rs 1 crore.
I find it very encouraging that compared to earlier days *most* graduates are getting domestic offers. (When I graduated (in late 1960's) - a huge percentage -- nearly all top students -- will choose to go to USA)
All B-Tech students are crazy about the high job packages and target solely that. They don't give a flying f*ck about any domestic R&D or innovative startups in Aerospace, drones, robotics and the like . In fact although IIT Kanpur now boasts some impressive RnD and products being done on the campus, the entire show there is run by Masters students and talented people from ordinary colleges. Students interest in course-work is at an all time low. Rampant cheating/copying is the norm.. They are not going to work in those fields anyway so why bother learning ? Job package is the sole importance. Believe me, I have even met some students who think research/startups are some sort of scam to lure them away from their well deserved 'high package jobs'.
P.S. I am a graduate of IIT Kanpur.
Re: Indian Education System
FWIW - some comments..
I too am a graduate of IIT Kanpur - perhaps entirely different circle but even in my very small sample - among my friends/colleagues/students/professors/ I can count CEO's (Like IBM, Infosys), world renowned professors/university presidents, honored citizens (including a *bahrat-ratna*).. in summary NOT *ALL* "bad"
There IS world famous - Tandon School of Engineering - NYU (https://engineering.nyu.edu/) or Gangwal School of Medical Sciences ( https://www.iitk.ac.in/new/gangwal-scho ... technology ) - not to mention many programs/professorships etc in world's top most institutions.
I remember (and posted in Brf) about IITK graduation - *blessed* by Indian PM Modi and UP Chief Minister Yogiji - telling us all how treasured talented students from good universities are. (Please do check out my post(s))...
As they say .. it is much easy to get fame by throwing stones on Vande Bharat's or mock this institute or that institute.. but IMO it is not helpful.
PS " high job packages" for good students is NOT that unusual, is a good thing , and they do not "completely poisoned the atmosphere"
Wow! why such negativity?..csaurabh wrote:Amber G. wrote:Some news from my alma mater IIT Kanpur... (Similar news items from other IIT's and premier institutes in India)
As the placements season kicks off -
I - Impressive! ₹40,000,00 (~$500,000) starting salary+comp for a fresh graduate from IIT Kanpur.
IIT-K student hits record ₹4 crore placement jackpot.
<snip>
....
I find it very encouraging that compared to earlier days *most* graduates are getting domestic offers. (When I graduated (in late 1960's) - a huge percentage -- nearly all top students -- will choose to go to USA)
These so called high job packages have completely poisoned the atmosphere at IIT Kanpur (and related places) and completely sucked away the talent from on-campus research programmes and startups etc.
All B-Tech students are crazy about the high job packages and target solely that. They don't give a flying f*ck about any domestic R&D or innovative startups in Aerospace, drones, robotics and the like . In fact although IIT Kanpur now boasts some impressive RnD and products being done on the campus, the entire show there is run by Masters students and talented people from ordinary colleges. Students interest in course-work is at an all time low. Rampant cheating/copying is the norm.. They are not going to work in those fields anyway so why bother learning ? Job package is the sole importance. Believe me, I have even met some students who think research/startups are some sort of scam to lure them away from their well deserved 'high package jobs'.
P.S. I am a graduate of IIT Kanpur.
I too am a graduate of IIT Kanpur - perhaps entirely different circle but even in my very small sample - among my friends/colleagues/students/professors/ I can count CEO's (Like IBM, Infosys), world renowned professors/university presidents, honored citizens (including a *bahrat-ratna*).. in summary NOT *ALL* "bad"
There IS world famous - Tandon School of Engineering - NYU (https://engineering.nyu.edu/) or Gangwal School of Medical Sciences ( https://www.iitk.ac.in/new/gangwal-scho ... technology ) - not to mention many programs/professorships etc in world's top most institutions.
I remember (and posted in Brf) about IITK graduation - *blessed* by Indian PM Modi and UP Chief Minister Yogiji - telling us all how treasured talented students from good universities are. (Please do check out my post(s))...
As they say .. it is much easy to get fame by throwing stones on Vande Bharat's or mock this institute or that institute.. but IMO it is not helpful.
PS " high job packages" for good students is NOT that unusual, is a good thing , and they do not "completely poisoned the atmosphere"
Re: Indian Education System
Amber G., you measure the institution's success by the success of its students/graduates. In other words, the student/graduate is the 'product'. By that measure, I am also a successful 'product' of IITK. Also I am a successful 'product' of my school and coaching institution. It could be argued that the school and coaching institute played a more important role because they have to take all kinds of people and produce successful 'products', whereas for institutes like IITK the input product is already good, so no surprise that the output product is good.
I measure the success of an institute like IITK in terms of the actual 'products' being developed and researched on the campus- through research projects and startups - which actually are useful for the country (ie not counting ivory tower theoretical research ). This begs to mind how many such useful products are being developed in IITK (not many) and how many B.Tech students are involved in such activities (close to none). Why? Because they are all after high job packages. That's it.
As per my understanding you are an NRI with not much knowledge of ground realities. I am just telling it how it is based on my own experience.
I measure the success of an institute like IITK in terms of the actual 'products' being developed and researched on the campus- through research projects and startups - which actually are useful for the country (ie not counting ivory tower theoretical research ). This begs to mind how many such useful products are being developed in IITK (not many) and how many B.Tech students are involved in such activities (close to none). Why? Because they are all after high job packages. That's it.
As per my understanding you are an NRI with not much knowledge of ground realities. I am just telling it how it is based on my own experience.
Re: Indian Education System
@csaurabh ji, we’ll said. How I hate that word - product.
Re: Indian Education System
ukraine medical degrees are accepted for medical practice in the EU countries. Easiest way to get a doctor's job or set up a medical practicesumsumne wrote:Students going abroad: PM nudges pvt firms to expand medical education
https://www.rediff.com/news/report/stud ... 220226.htm
Why are Indian Students going to Ukraine and Wuhan and studying Medicine there despite the language barrier?
most of these guys are looking to settle there.
Re: Indian Education System
Does anyone know of any YouTube or other Indian science channels in Indian languages, preferably Punjabi or Hindi?
I have found Science Safari
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf9TOuFGbFU
Anyone know of any others ?
I have found Science Safari
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf9TOuFGbFU
Anyone know of any others ?
Re: Indian Education System
https://swarajyamag.com/world/with-iits ... r-concerns
Wait - so they're dumbing things down to appease our IITs?The Times Higher Education (THE) World University Rankings reportedly reached out to the Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs) last month after a three-year boycott stemming from "transparency" issues.
THE informed the premier institutions of performance parameter changes for this year in hopes of allaying past concerns and regaining their participation.
According to source cited by the Indian Express, THE representatives on 7 March made a presentation to IT-Delhi, IIT-Bombay, and IIT-Madras, and listed changes to the ranking criteria modifications, including citation metric changes previously criticised by IITs.The rankings are annually published by the UK-based Times Higher Education magazine.The citation metric, a measure of the average number of times a university's published work is cited by scholars globally, previously carried a weightage of 30 per cent.The Citation metric's weightage has now been decreased to 15 per cent,
Re: Indian Education System
Look at the Swiss approach -- would that be good for India?
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/sci-tech/t ... d/48148948
![Image](https://www.swissinfo.ch/resource/blob/48131556/e680e5dac96126baa2b6b0f7df7994d9/swiss_education_system-eng-data.jpg)
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/sci-tech/t ... d/48148948
![Image](https://www.swissinfo.ch/resource/blob/48131556/e680e5dac96126baa2b6b0f7df7994d9/swiss_education_system-eng-data.jpg)
Re: Indian Education System
Sound like our system is reasonable. We have BA, BSc, MA, MSc, and BEd, MEd if you want to pursue becoming a teacher, but can go for MPhil, Phd if you want to pursue research. Then BE/B Tech, ME/M Tech. Plus polytechnic diploma, ITI certificate, and other vocational training are available after your 10 grade. You have MBA, MCA, etc if you want to go that route. IMHO the problem is really the quality of education infrastructure and teachers.sanman wrote:Look at the Swiss approach -- would that be good for India?
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/sci-tech/t ... d/48148948
Re: Indian Education System
Is the difference that the Swiss degrees result in 16 years of education compared to 15 years for many of the Indian programs?
Re: Indian Education System
That is true, but Australia, the UK, France, etc too offer 3-year programs. In the US the 4-year programs have a lot of humanity courses, perhaps that could make a difference, especially for STEM programs. I would still contend, consistent quality education standard across India is the biggest challenge.vera_k wrote:Is the difference that the Swiss degrees result in 16 years of education compared to 15 years for many of the Indian programs?
Re: Indian Education System
It is politically untenable to stream young students into vocational streams before they are done with 12th std, at least 10th std. European countries
(Germany especially) don't hesitate to divert students right at the 8th std into vocational and regular streams. Only a fraction makes it to the "Gymnasium" which is the top tier. That is acceptable in their society because the vocational options also result in good, well paying jobs (due to strength of German industry) and all the protections of a welfare state.
Rajaji tried introducing vocational studies at the school level in Tamil Nadu and it bombed badly - it was not well thought through and came across as casteist & elitist - which it was to some extent. The same reaction will happen if kids in 8th grade are separated into different streams. Everyone aspires them or their kids to be an IAS officer, engineer or doctor even if it means they will go to a shady university in Ukraine to study. There is also a stigma attached to blue collar jobs even when some pay very well.
So the only realistic way out of this mess is to let students limp till they finish 10th or 12th grade, and then dawn reality on them and move them to vocational streams. In many cases they even go to some college before switching to vocational training. It is wasted time for sure, but keeps the dream alive for students and their parents. Indian reality.
BTW, I have met a brilliant IFS officer who previously worked as a blue collar worker on a shop floor. The two-tiered system wouldn't have let him write the services exam if he didn't have a degree.
(Germany especially) don't hesitate to divert students right at the 8th std into vocational and regular streams. Only a fraction makes it to the "Gymnasium" which is the top tier. That is acceptable in their society because the vocational options also result in good, well paying jobs (due to strength of German industry) and all the protections of a welfare state.
Rajaji tried introducing vocational studies at the school level in Tamil Nadu and it bombed badly - it was not well thought through and came across as casteist & elitist - which it was to some extent. The same reaction will happen if kids in 8th grade are separated into different streams. Everyone aspires them or their kids to be an IAS officer, engineer or doctor even if it means they will go to a shady university in Ukraine to study. There is also a stigma attached to blue collar jobs even when some pay very well.
So the only realistic way out of this mess is to let students limp till they finish 10th or 12th grade, and then dawn reality on them and move them to vocational streams. In many cases they even go to some college before switching to vocational training. It is wasted time for sure, but keeps the dream alive for students and their parents. Indian reality.
BTW, I have met a brilliant IFS officer who previously worked as a blue collar worker on a shop floor. The two-tiered system wouldn't have let him write the services exam if he didn't have a degree.
Re: Indian Education System
Check Gareeb Scientist. I came across that recently while trying to dig info on ISRO's electric thruster.Haresh wrote:Does anyone know of any YouTube or other Indian science channels in Indian languages, preferably Punjabi or Hindi?
I have found Science Safari
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf9TOuFGbFU
Anyone know of any others ?
Re: Indian Education System
Decided to put a few frank comments from my perspective..
You have *no* clue about me yet ready to judge me! [That t I have "not much knowledge"]
This is nothing but your own prejudices and hate for NRI's/eduction/ etc. Frankly you have no clue about what is meant by *real* education and success.
As said, there is a HUGE difference between our perspective.
- Unlike you I NEVER went to a coaching school - or as you put it " successful 'product' of my school and coaching institution")
- Enjoyed learning new things and not thinking like a mere "product" as you do.
- Education in IITK enabled me to go to *any* top school I wished (or applied) to go, and further continue my study and learn.
- *your" experience that "not many useful products are being developed in IITK" is close to nonsense. So is " they are all after high job packages" .This may be your very narrow point of view - seeing what you see among your own silo.
- As I said, I see renowned professors, CEO's and even administrators like Ashwini Vaishnaw as a minister in GoI. Sure *not* all of the product is the best .. doesn't mean all of the product is lousy.
Really hoped that not that much negativity existed ...
Wow!!csaurabh wrote: <snip>
As per my understanding you are an NRI with not much knowledge of ground realities. I am just telling it how it is based on my own experience.
You have *no* clue about me yet ready to judge me! [That t I have "not much knowledge"]
This is nothing but your own prejudices and hate for NRI's/eduction/ etc. Frankly you have no clue about what is meant by *real* education and success.
As said, there is a HUGE difference between our perspective.
- Unlike you I NEVER went to a coaching school - or as you put it " successful 'product' of my school and coaching institution")
- Enjoyed learning new things and not thinking like a mere "product" as you do.
- Education in IITK enabled me to go to *any* top school I wished (or applied) to go, and further continue my study and learn.
- *your" experience that "not many useful products are being developed in IITK" is close to nonsense. So is " they are all after high job packages" .This may be your very narrow point of view - seeing what you see among your own silo.
- As I said, I see renowned professors, CEO's and even administrators like Ashwini Vaishnaw as a minister in GoI. Sure *not* all of the product is the best .. doesn't mean all of the product is lousy.
Really hoped that not that much negativity existed ...
Re: Indian Education System
Meanwhile, Purdue is in news again signs a landmark deal in presence of India's honorable Minister Ashwini Vaishnaw
Purdue and India establish milestone semiconductor alliance; sign partnership in the presence of Minister Ashwini Vaishnaw
Agreement provides foundation to advance workforce development, joint research and innovation, and global industry collaborations
Purdue and India establish milestone semiconductor alliance; sign partnership in the presence of Minister Ashwini Vaishnaw
Agreement provides foundation to advance workforce development, joint research and innovation, and global industry collaborations
![Image](https://www.purdue.edu/research/features/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Purdue-India-Featured.jpg)
Purdue was one of the University in GIAP (Along with MIT, Caltech, Princeton etc) which provided enormous help in the formation of IIT Kanpur in late 60's. For every book they bought for their university, they bought one copy for IIT Library, also provided subscription to all the research journals.Purdue has entered into another landmark international agreement, this one with the government of India, to advance workforce development, research and development, and industry partnerships in semiconductors. At a signing ceremony on Tuesday (May 9) are, from left, T.V. Nagendra Prasad, Consul General of the Indian Consulate in San Francisco; Honorable Ashwini Vaishnaw, India’s Union Minister for Railways, Communications, Electronics and IT; Purdue President Mung Chiang; and Vijay Raghunathan, Purdue professor and Associate Head of Electrical and Computer Engineering and Director of Semiconductor Education for Purdue. (Purdue University photo)
Re: Indian Education System
The first Indian Institute of Technology to be set up in Africa will come up in October in Tanzania.
IITMadras will set up its first International campus in Zanzibar, Tanzania, with plans to to start the classes by October 2023.
![Image](https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1661919468425969665/FRQcBkaL?format=jpg&name=medium)
IITMadras will set up its first International campus in Zanzibar, Tanzania, with plans to to start the classes by October 2023.
Re: Indian Education System
Apparently NCERT has removed below listed topics. Not really sure what is going on, but from a pure optics perspective it looks like a huge "dumbing down" of these grades is happening
Class X
1062 MATHEMATICS
Chapter 1: Real Number 2–7 15–18 1.2 Euclid’s division lemma 1.5 Revisiting rational numbers and their decimal expansions
Chapter 2: Polynomials 33–37 2.4 Division algorithm for polynomials
Chapter 3: Pair of Linear Equations in Two Variables 39–46 57–69 3.2 Pair of linear equations in two variables 3.3 Graphical method of solution of a pair of linear equations 3.4.3 Cross-multiplication method 3.5 equation reducible to a pair of linear equations in two variables
Chapter 4: Quadratic Equations 76–88 91–92 4.4 Solution of a quadratic equation by completing the squares
Chapter 6: Triangles 141–144 144–154 6.5 Areas of similar triangles 6.6 Pythagoras theorem
Chapter 7: Coordinate Geometry 168–172 7.4 Area of a triangle
Chapter 8: Introduction to Trigonometry 187–190 193–194 8.4 Trigonometric ratios of complementary angles
Chapter 9: Some Applications of Trigonometry 195–196 205 9.1 Introduction
Chapter 11: Construction 216–222 11.1Introduction 11.2 Division of a line segment 11.3 Construction of tangents to a circle 11.4 Summary
Chapter 12: Areas Related to Circles 223 224–226 231–238 12.1 Introduction 12.2 Perimeter and area of a circle — A review 12.4 Areas of combinations of plane figures
Chapter 13: Surface Areas and Volumes 248–252 252–259 13.4 Conversion of solid from one shape to another 13.5 Frustum of a cone
Chapter 14: Statistics 289–294 14.5 Graphical representation of cumulative frequency distribution
Chapter 15: Probability 295–296 311–312 15.1 Introduction Exercise 15.2 (Optional)
1064 – Science
Chapter 5: Periodic Classification of Elements 79–92 Full chapter
Chapter: 9 Heredity and Evolution (Chapter name replaced with: Heredity) 147–158 Box item: Charles Robert Darwin Box item: Origin of life on earth Box item: How do fossils form layer by layer Box item: Molecular phylogeny 9.3 Evolution 9.3.1 An Illustration 9.3.2 Acquired and Inherited Traits 9.4 Speciation 9.5 Evolution and Classification 9.5.1 Tracing Evolutionary Relationships 9.5.2 Fossils 9.5.3 Evolution by Stages 9.6 Evolution Should Not Be Equated With ‘Progress’ 9.6.1 Human Evolution
Chapter: 11 The Human Eye and the Colourful World 188, 189, 196 and 197 Two box items: • Damage to or malfunction of any part of the visual system... • Why do we have two eyes for vision and not just one? 11.6.3 Colour of the Sun at Sunrise and Sunset
Chapter: 12 Electricity 201 Box item: ‘Flow’ of charges inside a wire
Chapter: 13 Magnetic Effects of Electric Current 232–237 Box item: Michael Faraday 3.4 Electric Motor 3.5 Electromagnetic Induction 3.6 Electric Generator
Chapter: 14 Sources of Energy 242–255 Full chapter
Chapter: 16 Sustainable Management of Natural Resources 266–280 Full chapter
1068 — Contemporary India-II
Chapter 1: Resources and Development 2–3 11–12 Types of Resources, Box information
Chapter 2: Forest and Wildlife Resources 14–18 From second paragraph of ‘Flora and Fauna in India’ to ‘The Himalayan Yew in Trouble’, box information, Figs 2.1 and 2.2
Chapter 4: Agriculture 43–46 Contribution of agriculture to the national economy, employment and output, Impact of globalisation on agriculture
Chapter 6: Manufacturing Industries 64–66 68–69 71–73 Contribution of industry to national economy, paragraphs from cotton textiles (India exports... fibre industry), Jute textiles (Challenges... products), Sugar industry (Major... baggase), Iron Steel industry (In 2019... consumer of steel; Though... and discuss), Cement industry (Improvement... industry) and Activity (pg. 72), Table 6.1, Figs 6.1, 6.2 and 6.5
1072 – Democratic Politics-II
Chapter 3: Democracy and Diversity 29–38 Full chapter
Chapter 4: Gender, Religion and Caste 46–48 49 Images on page 46, 48 and 49
Chapter 5: Popular Struggles and Movements 57–70 Full chapter
Chapter 6: Political Parties 76 Full page
Chapter 8: Challenges to Democracy 101–112 Full chapter
https://preview.redd.it/3n4ihn1z4g3b1.j ... 167ee232cc
Class X
1062 MATHEMATICS
Chapter 1: Real Number 2–7 15–18 1.2 Euclid’s division lemma 1.5 Revisiting rational numbers and their decimal expansions
Chapter 2: Polynomials 33–37 2.4 Division algorithm for polynomials
Chapter 3: Pair of Linear Equations in Two Variables 39–46 57–69 3.2 Pair of linear equations in two variables 3.3 Graphical method of solution of a pair of linear equations 3.4.3 Cross-multiplication method 3.5 equation reducible to a pair of linear equations in two variables
Chapter 4: Quadratic Equations 76–88 91–92 4.4 Solution of a quadratic equation by completing the squares
Chapter 6: Triangles 141–144 144–154 6.5 Areas of similar triangles 6.6 Pythagoras theorem
Chapter 7: Coordinate Geometry 168–172 7.4 Area of a triangle
Chapter 8: Introduction to Trigonometry 187–190 193–194 8.4 Trigonometric ratios of complementary angles
Chapter 9: Some Applications of Trigonometry 195–196 205 9.1 Introduction
Chapter 11: Construction 216–222 11.1Introduction 11.2 Division of a line segment 11.3 Construction of tangents to a circle 11.4 Summary
Chapter 12: Areas Related to Circles 223 224–226 231–238 12.1 Introduction 12.2 Perimeter and area of a circle — A review 12.4 Areas of combinations of plane figures
Chapter 13: Surface Areas and Volumes 248–252 252–259 13.4 Conversion of solid from one shape to another 13.5 Frustum of a cone
Chapter 14: Statistics 289–294 14.5 Graphical representation of cumulative frequency distribution
Chapter 15: Probability 295–296 311–312 15.1 Introduction Exercise 15.2 (Optional)
1064 – Science
Chapter 5: Periodic Classification of Elements 79–92 Full chapter
Chapter: 9 Heredity and Evolution (Chapter name replaced with: Heredity) 147–158 Box item: Charles Robert Darwin Box item: Origin of life on earth Box item: How do fossils form layer by layer Box item: Molecular phylogeny 9.3 Evolution 9.3.1 An Illustration 9.3.2 Acquired and Inherited Traits 9.4 Speciation 9.5 Evolution and Classification 9.5.1 Tracing Evolutionary Relationships 9.5.2 Fossils 9.5.3 Evolution by Stages 9.6 Evolution Should Not Be Equated With ‘Progress’ 9.6.1 Human Evolution
Chapter: 11 The Human Eye and the Colourful World 188, 189, 196 and 197 Two box items: • Damage to or malfunction of any part of the visual system... • Why do we have two eyes for vision and not just one? 11.6.3 Colour of the Sun at Sunrise and Sunset
Chapter: 12 Electricity 201 Box item: ‘Flow’ of charges inside a wire
Chapter: 13 Magnetic Effects of Electric Current 232–237 Box item: Michael Faraday 3.4 Electric Motor 3.5 Electromagnetic Induction 3.6 Electric Generator
Chapter: 14 Sources of Energy 242–255 Full chapter
Chapter: 16 Sustainable Management of Natural Resources 266–280 Full chapter
1068 — Contemporary India-II
Chapter 1: Resources and Development 2–3 11–12 Types of Resources, Box information
Chapter 2: Forest and Wildlife Resources 14–18 From second paragraph of ‘Flora and Fauna in India’ to ‘The Himalayan Yew in Trouble’, box information, Figs 2.1 and 2.2
Chapter 4: Agriculture 43–46 Contribution of agriculture to the national economy, employment and output, Impact of globalisation on agriculture
Chapter 6: Manufacturing Industries 64–66 68–69 71–73 Contribution of industry to national economy, paragraphs from cotton textiles (India exports... fibre industry), Jute textiles (Challenges... products), Sugar industry (Major... baggase), Iron Steel industry (In 2019... consumer of steel; Though... and discuss), Cement industry (Improvement... industry) and Activity (pg. 72), Table 6.1, Figs 6.1, 6.2 and 6.5
1072 – Democratic Politics-II
Chapter 3: Democracy and Diversity 29–38 Full chapter
Chapter 4: Gender, Religion and Caste 46–48 49 Images on page 46, 48 and 49
Chapter 5: Popular Struggles and Movements 57–70 Full chapter
Chapter 6: Political Parties 76 Full page
Chapter 8: Challenges to Democracy 101–112 Full chapter
https://preview.redd.it/3n4ihn1z4g3b1.j ... 167ee232cc
Re: Indian Education System
Does the government have any real influence over NCERT and other such councils or is it still full of the DU professor crowd.
Either way the kind of news that's been coming out is deeply problematic and a powerful weapon for BIF forces who then have it blasted all over social media and western news
"India's right wing government removes periodic table from syllabus" etc etc which is an easy way to link us to some regressive "anti-science and tech" regime.
One of the biggest problems with the current govt and Indian babudom in general is the inability to announce something in a few simple sentences that allows for easy understanding
They will release these long winding official gazette notices from which twisted headlines can be easily made and then struggle to contain the fake narratives.
Either way the kind of news that's been coming out is deeply problematic and a powerful weapon for BIF forces who then have it blasted all over social media and western news
"India's right wing government removes periodic table from syllabus" etc etc which is an easy way to link us to some regressive "anti-science and tech" regime.
One of the biggest problems with the current govt and Indian babudom in general is the inability to announce something in a few simple sentences that allows for easy understanding
They will release these long winding official gazette notices from which twisted headlines can be easily made and then struggle to contain the fake narratives.
Re: Indian Education System
Allow me to shed some light: The source of all this is cabal like Dawkins, Nature (amplified by ddm. BBC... etc) who as one IIT Distinguished Professor, FRS, and Emmons Terman Award winner (given by American Society for Engineering Education.. called this Dawkins (on his own face) .. not kidding, What a dumb effing idiot! I agree with him 100%.Jay wrote:Apparently NCERT has removed below listed topics. Not really sure what is going on,
Why? Of course, "Nature" embarrassed it self by propagating a complete lie without checking the most elementary fact. (Hint: They did NOT cut the periodic table -- They simply moved it from Class X to Class IX)..
Here is what some of us letting Nature magazine know - :
("Their anti-India news sources are pranking the supposedly prestigious journal by feeding really stupid, easy-to-disprove rumors. Eg. It took me less than an hour to check from a few different sources - including checking the textbook) secondary. Hope the next time, they may want to do some basic research.)
Eg: easy to check out: