Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 11 Jun 2023 14:21

The worst aircraft are assigned by ME airlines to serve Indian routes, I specially remember one leg from Doha to TVM ON Qatar Airlines - the very narrow seats and tiny leg room were the worst I've ever seen in 3 decades of into travel. The seats and equipments on board are broken, dirty and a disgrace. Pure horror.

Hope Air India gets its act together and we have a decent national carrier very soon.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 13 Jun 2023 07:26

Jewar International Airport is moving fast. ATC tower construction has started. There will be 2 runways in Phase 1 and 6 runways at the completion of all phases. Drone shots of the under construction 2 runways and terminal buildings. Once completed this airport will be the largest in Asia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQsDZp4zgMc

Zurich Airports International are the construction managers and Tata Construction are the building contractors.

Runway testing to begin mid 2024, 12 million passengers and 200,000 tonnes of cargo when the airport opens at the end of 2024.
^^^ This what president of Zurich Airports said.
The airport will be connected to the Delhi Mumbai expressway and also by a new road to the existing IGI airport Delhi

https://www.timesnownews.com/delhi/six- ... -100341760

There will be a Metro link with NDLS/ New Delhi station. UP Govt has insisted that there be only 6 stations on the Metro so that it just takes 30 mins to travel to the airport by high speed Metro.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/n ... 18905.html

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

ATC construction has also started at Mumbai International airport which will have only 1 runway in Phase 1. Airport lighting installation has also started at Mumbai as also asphalting of the runway. They need to cut and level the big hill there. They are cutting the hill which is on the approach and the rubble is being used for aggregates.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 13 Jun 2023 09:18

Mollick.R wrote:India failed to soar in global skies — it's correcting that mistake now
Head full article from here//
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 875615.cms

Article is light on detail on how they plan to help add capacity when no Indian airline has the planes to do so. This part makes it look like a quid-pro-quo with the new owners of Air India for driving up air fares -

But Air India is said to be in favour of the freeze as it plans to increase direct connectivity through long-haul flights.

The best thing for passengers will be for the government to stop telling airlines what they can and can not do.

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 20 Jun 2023 05:40

Biggest plane order in history:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/19/airbus- ... ndigo.html

As I mentioned earlier, Airbus production is so backlogged that these planes will start arriving only in 2030 and the order will complete by 2035. As of now, they haven't even finished delivering the previous order from Indigo.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 20 Jun 2023 20:50

KL Dubey wrote:Biggest plane order in history:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/19/airbus- ... ndigo.html

As I mentioned earlier, Airbus production is so backlogged that these planes will start arriving only in 2030 and the order will complete by 2035. As of now, they haven't even finished delivering the previous order from Indigo.

There is zero coverage on the MSM in the UK. One of the largest orders ever, providing 1,000's of jobs for the Airbus factory in North Wales at the Broughton plant and thousands more at the Rolls Royce engine factory in Derbyshire, and nothing on the news. I don't think they can stomach it. That their former colony has that money to spend. Need to cast India as the bad guy for not towing the line over Russia/Ukraine, and also bang the "Aid" drum.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 21 Jun 2023 06:06

That absence is telling.

They’ll get used to the idea.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 22 Jun 2023 04:19

Haresh wrote:
KL Dubey wrote:Biggest plane order in history:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/19/airbus- ... ndigo.html

As I mentioned earlier, Airbus production is so backlogged that these planes will start arriving only in 2030 and the order will complete by 2035. As of now, they haven't even finished delivering the previous order from Indigo.
There is zero coverage on the MSM in the UK. One of the largest orders ever, providing 1,000's of jobs for the Airbus factory in North Wales at the Broughton plant and thousands more at the Rolls Royce engine factory in Derbyshire, and nothing on the news. I don't think they can stomach it. That their former colony has that money to spend. Need to cast India as the bad guy for not towing the line over Russia/Ukraine, and also bang the "Aid" drum.

https://www.flyingmag.com/indigo-places ... bus-order/

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/19/airbus- ... ndigo.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2023/ ... ias-indigo

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/south-as ... ias-indigo

https://www.business-standard.com/marke ... 297_1.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-06-04/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohan ... ane-order/

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/19/business ... index.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... st-airline

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-65952879

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 22 Jun 2023 14:52

Jay wrote:
Haresh wrote:
There is zero coverage on the MSM in the UK. One of the largest orders ever, providing 1,000's of jobs for the Airbus factory in North Wales at the Broughton plant and thousands more at the Rolls Royce engine factory in Derbyshire, and nothing on the news. I don't think they can stomach it. That their former colony has that money to spend. Need to cast India as the bad guy for not towing the line over Russia/Ukraine, and also bang the "Aid" drum.

It maybe on their websites, but not on the TV/print media news. Also not on the common mans news, the reason is in my view that they still need to keep the common man ignorant and hating.

Just look at this, this is the Daily Mail, when Britain signed the Al-Yamama arms deal with sowdi arabia many years ago it was frontpage news on that rag. The Daily Mail is the most popular rag in the UK.
As Always the comments are interesting.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... urce=email

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 23 Jun 2023 01:29

Can't India insist that Airbus and Boeing build 50% of these planes in India? Even if it's just assembly, we can still create lots of jobs. I'd like to see a factory come up in the north east, in Assam for ex. If planes can fly anywhere they can be built anywhere. There is enough time to do that by 2030!

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 03 Jul 2023 09:54

As discussed in detail earlier in the thread, increased purchasing power of Indian airlines will ultimately lead to Airbus and Boeing assembling aircraft in India.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 442707.cms

Boeing already sources > $1 bn/yr of manufacturing and services from India. Expanding this high-end manufacturing and services (more value addition) is perhaps more valuable than getting an assembly line (which makes headlines but isn't much value addition). But no one would be complaining if an assembly line also came to India.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 12 Aug 2023 00:04

Anyone else felt the new logo and livery of Air India is very unimaginative and lacking in nativity and Indianess. Trying too hard to fit in forgetting that standing out is what was probably needed.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 13 Aug 2023 01:08

^^Êxactly my reaction saar. The tail looks like folding envelopes. The font lacks dynamism and looks atrociously from Windows95 era. Red/orange under belly is odd , but we may get used to it. Overall, just under cringe level design. Too late however, it seems new Airbus a/c in this livery doing trials runs before delivery have been spotted already.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Sep 2023 19:19

Another view

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Nov 2023 22:29

Airbus boosts ‘Make in India’, signs component making contracts with Mahindra Aerospace, 3 others
https://www.livemint.com/news/airbus-bo ... 53278.html
06 Nov 2023

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Nov 2023 22:30

Airbus and Indian Suppliers Anticipate Significant Job Growth
https://www.defencenews.in/2023/11/airb ... ob-growth/
08 Nov 2023

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 09 Nov 2023 21:18

https://x.com/writetake/status/1722580275111305515?s=20 ---> HAL & Airbus pact inked today for establishing a civil MRO facility for the A320 family of aircraft at Nashik. Airbus will supply the A320 family tool package & offer specialized consulting services to HAL to establish the MRO facility.

https://x.com/writetake/status/1722580626883358936?s=20 ---> The MRO facility for the A320 aircraft family would be established & ready for aircraft induction by November 2024 with required DGCA approval. In future, this Nashik facility will also be available for the entire Asian region after obtaining EASA approval.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Nov 2023 21:58

Safran and PTC Industries sign contract to provide casting parts for the LEAP engine powering single-aisle jet
https://www.safran-group.com/pressroom/ ... 2023-11-13
13 Nov 2023

https://x.com/SafranEngines/status/1724 ... 65186?s=20 ---> Indian-based @Ptcil and Safran Aircraft Engines announced a multi-year contract to develop industrial cooperation for CFMLEAP engines casting parts. This agreement reflects commitment to Indian Government's Make In India policy.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Dec 2023 21:45

https://x.com/6ESinger157593/status/173 ... 50918?s=20 ---> Imagine if @TataCompanies and @airindia had embraced India's vibrant diversity, rich culture and art in their livery designs instead of settling for substandard, mediocre choices. Here's an artist's impression of aircraft tails to showcase the nation's heritage.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Dec 2023 11:42

IndiGo pilot moves Bombay HC seeking permission to carry kirpan at airports and on plane

The IndiGo pilot pointed to the 2022 DGCA notification which stated that Sikhs will be allowed to carry a kirpan.

https://indianexpress.com/article/citie ... e-9065976/

The Nagpur bench of the Bombay High Court on Monday issued notice to the Ministry of Civil Aviation, Director General of the Central Industrial Security Force (CISF), and Bureau of Civil Aviation Security in a plea by a pilot working with IndiGo Airlines seeking directions to permit him to carry a ‘kirpan’ inside airports.

A division bench of Justice Nitin W Sambre and Justice Abhay J Mantri was hearing a plea by Angad Singh, who through advocate S S Dewani, claimed that he has a right to carry a kirpan or a short sword with a curved blade given the fundamental right to profess religion under Article 25 of the Constitution.

Singh argued that restrictions imposed by the Ministry of Civil Aviation are required to be corrected/amended given the subsequent corrigendum to the order it had issued on March 12, 2022.

Singh argued that a notification issued by the DGCA on March 4, 2022, stated that Sikhs will be allowed to carry a kirpan provided the length of its blade does not exceed six inches and the total length is not more than nine inches. The corrigendum issued on March 12, 2022, even allowed Sikhs working at airports to carry kirpans.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 16 Dec 2023 08:34

Very intelligent.

bala · Post by **bala** » 24 Dec 2023 09:18

Jyotiraditya Scindia On The Aviation Dream Run. Jyotiraditya scindia is simply brilliant and a performer with clarity of thought, he has removed all bottlenecks in entry/exit at airports, removed the Delhi VVIP lounge and much more. There were 400 planes in 2014, now there 7000 planes, many small airports are connected, Delhi is primed to get to be #2 airport in the world. There has been phenomenal growth in Civil Aviation sector.

hgupta · Post by **hgupta** » 24 Dec 2023 13:27

7000 planes???? No way. Perhaps you meant 700 planes.

rajkumar · Post by **rajkumar** » 26 Dec 2023 21:00

Why India wants 4 extra seats for every extra seat allowed to Dubai airlines

https://m.timesofindia.com/business/ind ... 283589.cms

bala · Post by **bala** » 26 Dec 2023 22:03

hgupta wrote: ↑24 Dec 2023 13:27 7000 planes???? No way. Perhaps you meant 700 planes.

You are right, should be 700, mantriji mentions at around 23:00 sath sow, here is the breakdown

Indigo 319
Air India 121
Spice Jet 63
Vistara 61
Air Asia 30
Air India Express 26
Akasa 19
Alliance Air 21
Go First 54

Total 714

According to https://www.outlookindia.com/business/i ... ews-262579

Airlines in India have 1100 planes on order

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 26 Dec 2023 22:21

rajkumar wrote: ↑26 Dec 2023 21:00 Why India wants 4 extra seats for every extra seat allowed to Dubai airlines

https://m.timesofindia.com/business/ind ... 283589.cms

The same article also says sarkar is planning to transform Indian airports into transit hubs. That sounds great...but the very first thing they need to do is to install intra-airport shuttle trains between terminals. Whether underground or above, it doesn't matter. How difficult can this be ?

Even in DEL and BOM, if one is flying two different airlines that are not co-located in the same terminal (e.g., T3 at DEL), it is a major pain to go register at some counter, wait to take a bus, get baggage loaded, and then get driven on city roads with unpredictable traffic to go around the airport perimeter. Additionally, in DEL, the only bus that shuttles through all terminals is actually a *DTC bus* that takes on all kinds of local passengers. The airport staff gave me a ticket to present to the conductor.

I hope this has changed now, otherwise I can't understand how DEL and BOM can become transit hubs.

morem · Post by **morem** » 27 Dec 2023 02:23

KL Dubey wrote: ↑26 Dec 2023 22:21
rajkumar wrote: ↑26 Dec 2023 21:00 Why India wants 4 extra seats for every extra seat allowed to Dubai airlines

https://m.timesofindia.com/business/ind ... 283589.cms
The same article also says sarkar is planning to transform Indian airports into transit hubs. That sounds great...but the very first thing they need to do is to install intra-airport shuttle trains between terminals. Whether underground or above, it doesn't matter. How difficult can this be ?

Even in DEL and BOM, if one is flying two different airlines that are not co-located in the same terminal (e.g., T3 at DEL), it is a major pain to go register at some counter, wait to take a bus, get baggage loaded, and then get driven on city roads with unpredictable traffic to go around the airport perimeter. Additionally, in DEL, the only bus that shuttles through all terminals is actually a *DTC bus* that takes on all kinds of local passengers. The airport staff gave me a ticket to present to the conductor. I hope this has changed now, otherwise I can't understand how DEL and BOM can become transit hubs.

This actually happened to me. Landed at T3 was to go to Nagpur from T1. The bus broke down in between. Driver flagged another DTC bus and loaded all of us into it

S_Madhukar · Post by **S_Madhukar** » 27 Dec 2023 23:12

The current newish BOM airport I have no clue if it’s going down or no improvement is forthcoming… the taxi rank etc is practically non existent except for some marking near the lifts.. still don’t understand why hand baggage has to be scanned by customs at the exit… there are more food stalls and no sims on offer at arrivals… may be DEL Jewar linking is possible due to metro and hence transit hub possible but BOM and Navi Mumbai links are non existent… to add insult to injury just came back from Changi and ooofff just simple and practical and BIG for an island whereas ours is a reflection of small minds … tells me that babus only visit free duty for whisky and conveniently forget everything else or don’t take a round of the settings

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 27 Dec 2023 23:38

morem wrote: ↑27 Dec 2023 02:23
KL Dubey wrote: ↑26 Dec 2023 22:21

The same article also says sarkar is planning to transform Indian airports into transit hubs. That sounds great...but the very first thing they need to do is to install intra-airport shuttle trains between terminals. Whether underground or above, it doesn't matter. How difficult can this be ?

Even in DEL and BOM, if one is flying two different airlines that are not co-located in the same terminal (e.g., T3 at DEL), it is a major pain to go register at some counter, wait to take a bus, get baggage loaded, and then get driven on city roads with unpredictable traffic to go around the airport perimeter. Additionally, in DEL, the only bus that shuttles through all terminals is actually a *DTC bus* that takes on all kinds of local passengers. The airport staff gave me a ticket to present to the conductor. I hope this has changed now, otherwise I can't understand how DEL and BOM can become transit hubs.
This actually happened to me. Landed at T3 was to go to Nagpur from T1. The bus broke down in between. Driver flagged another DTC bus and loaded all of us into it

T1 and T3 are being connected by an air train
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 054701.cms

bala · Post by **bala** » 27 Dec 2023 23:44

Bhai sahaabs no point putting down Indian airports. I was used to cowsheds like HAL airport terminal growing up, but today Kempegowda International Airport Bengaluru is up there with the most modern airports in the world. UNESCO declared that the terminal 2 Kempegowda international airport is the most beautiful and the best airport in the world. { now for making Bengaluru city more beautiful... sigh}

After private participation airports in India are transformed beyond all the old decrepit buildings. Even small airports are great. This is one area, India has leapfrogged, can't say the same with railway stations, though the changes are happening slowly, incrementally.

Take a look at Bengaluru Terminal 2 building.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHdOce28BYA
Added later..
A good look on the inside
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ8VrU-2Q2U

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 28 Dec 2023 05:26

bala wrote: ↑27 Dec 2023 23:44 Bhai sahaabs no point putting down Indian airports.

Not putting them down at all. I fly regularly in and out of these airports, and very much appreciate the sea change in the terminal facilities. The terminals are beautiful and functional. My post was more specific. I agree much work is being done, but for transit hub effectiveness the inter-terminal connectivity also needs huge improvements. I am sure it will happen.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 28 Dec 2023 12:06

Traveled out of Mumbai airport this week. Great facilities, however found a couple of oddities -

1. The WIFI at the airport, although technically free requires an OTP sent to an active mobile number to sign in. This is not feasible if you're trying to use a laptop or don't have a working mobile number because you just landed in the country.

2. The airlines don't offer ticketing services inside the terminal. I was looking to change my flight from a Europe routing to an Air India direct flight since they had seats available and it would save me time. But was told that this requires exiting the terminal, getting a ticket at a counter outside the terminals, and then coming back in.

Luckily managed to borrow a phone and make changes via Expedia from inside the terminal, but not a world class experience IMO.

Added later:
Maybe the ownership changing from GVK to Adani has caused a few dropped balls somewhere.

Reading comment above, having ticketing inside the terminal is essential for a transit hub unlike a hub and spoke airport model.

And more:

Should mention that the Mumbai terminal building has such high ceilings that I noticed flocks of birds flying around.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 28 Dec 2023 21:50

PM Modi to inaugurate Ayodhya airport reflecting 'cultural ethos'

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 28 Dec 2023 23:54

vera_k wrote: ↑28 Dec 2023 12:06 Traveled out of Mumbai airport this week. Great facilities, however found a couple of oddities -

1. The WIFI at the airport, although technically free requires an OTP sent to an active mobile number to sign in. This is not feasible if you're trying to use a laptop or don't have a working mobile number because you just landed in the country.

This is the case at a couple of other desi international airports I've been in. Airports within international flights will by definition have passengers who have just landed, or are transiting to another airport, either inside or outside the country. In either case, having local connectivity is quite important as one lands. One is forced to conclude there isn't a solution for this conundrum that requires an OTP as an intermediate step to getting free wifi (not seen the need for this at a couple of airports outside India). Or perhaps, it affects so few people that it does not register on their radar as an issue.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 29 Dec 2023 06:10

I've traveled through Mumbai before Covid-19 without facing the need for an OTP for free wi-fi. For that matter, the premium paid-for wi-fi requires an OTP too, since I thought I would try that instead.

Coupled with the lack of ticketing services, my take is that overall services are being ignored in favor of the physical infrastructure. And trying to submit feedback to the airport leads to a page that is inaccessible - https://csmia.adaniairports.com/contact-us.aspx.

bala · Post by **bala** » 29 Dec 2023 22:03

Maryada Purushottam Ram Ayodhya airport discussions with Civil Aviation minister, Jyothiraditya Scindia

20 months construction time line for phase 1. Phase 1: 6.5 K sq m, 15 aprons; Phase 2 is adding 50 k sq m.

Ayodha Ram temple will become one of India's star destination for many years to come and its significance for Sanatani Dharma will reach an acme point. There is enormous international interest from many nations on Lord Ram. Thailand names its kings after Lord Ram.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 29 Dec 2023 22:44

OTP is not a big deal if you enable international roaming before your trip, if you have a non-Indian line. MFA is a security requirement in India for nearly everything. So a sensitive and high value area like airports will have some form of the same. Anonymous connections are still traceable after an incident but it adds minutes to the process and is not considered acceptable during a crisis

Transit between terminals or automated parking management is still an alien concept in India. Let alone long term parking for business travelers who need to travel back and forth over a day using their own vehicle.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 30 Dec 2023 00:17

In that case, what about laptops which do not have a cellular connection? MFA can also be achieved using passenger data such as names, passport numbers and airline confirmation number. Or vouchers can be sold via net banking or credit card payment for premium wifi to capture identity information and associate with the connection at that time. The OTP seems like a lazy solution that's mostly unworkable.

LonelyTraveler · Post by **LonelyTraveler** » 30 Dec 2023 03:03

vera_k wrote: ↑30 Dec 2023 00:17 In that case, what about laptops which do not have a cellular connection? MFA can also be achieved using passenger data such as names, passport numbers and airline confirmation number. Or vouchers can be sold via net banking or credit card payment for premium wifi to capture identity information and associate with the connection at that time. The OTP seems like a lazy solution that's mostly unworkable.

In BOM airport at least, if you do not have a way to get an OTP, you can go to the helpdesk/info desk and they will set you up with Wifi Access. But in all honesty, I do not see the need to push for OTP - it is not a secure network and it is not MFA thats being enforced. The intent seems to be to limit access to one device per traveler.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 30 Dec 2023 03:43

rajkumar wrote: ↑26 Dec 2023 21:00 Why India wants 4 extra seats for every extra seat allowed to Dubai airlines

https://m.timesofindia.com/business/ind ... 283589.cms

About time, the khangressi governments of yester years were more focussed on creating favourable space for themselves. resulting in a huge loss to Indian carriers while the west Asian carriers became bigger and their transit hubs [ abu dhabi and dubai] one of the biggest in the world mainly because of passenger inflows to the Indian sub continent.. we never used our market power in our favour

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 30 Dec 2023 03:48

bala wrote: ↑29 Dec 2023 22:03 Maryada Purushottam Ram Ayodhya airport discussions with Civil Aviation minister, Jyothiraditya Scindia

20 months construction time line for phase 1. Phase 1: 6.5 K sq m, 15 aprons; Phase 2 is adding 50 k sq m.

[youtube]eaIlQmwE-vk[/youtube

Ayodha Ram temple will become one of India's star destinations for many years to come and its significance for Sanatani Dharma will reach an acme point. There is enormous international interest from many nations on Lord Ram. Thailand names its kings after Lord Ram.

reports say the Ram temple will be taller than the Egyptian pyramids and use only rock for construction, no cement or steel! ..but so un advertised in the media