Internal Security Watch

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Sumeet
BRFite
Posts: 1486
Joined: 22 May 2002 11:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sumeet » 23 Mar 2009 06:58

I agree elections are much more important than IPL or for that matter even World Cup. One reason I oppose IPL and Elections coinciding is that many in the youth bracket especially will have an additional reason to not focus on something that is very important.

vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3008
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby vera_k » 23 Mar 2009 07:04

g.kacha wrote:LK Advani was not in the govt (though I hope he wins this time) .. so he could have said anything and it still would amount to nothing


Well, then there's this NDTV report from February 2008 saying the same thing this time quoting Congress sources. Although I don't believe the leader of the Opposition would be exactly clueless about these things.

g.kacha wrote:IPL is a private franchise and Election Commission is in no way obligated to take their dates into account before announcing the election dates ....


That depends on whether you think the government deserves to take priority over everyone else. I don't think it should or else we are back to the license-raj days with people queuing up for favors before the government.

g.kacha wrote:I think the Mumbai attacks were the game changer here .. I think we would not be having this conversation if the Mumbai attacks had not happened ...


And was the government's bumbling there not responsible for letting that attack succeed? Also it would have been possible to prepone the elections even then.

AnimeshP
BRFite
Posts: 514
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 07:39

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby AnimeshP » 23 Mar 2009 07:21

vera_k wrote:
Well, then there's this NDTV report from February 2008 saying the same thing this time quoting Congress sources. Although I don't believe the leader of the Opposition would be exactly clueless about these things.
...
That depends on whether you think the government deserves to take priority over everyone else. I don't think it should or else we are back to the license-raj days with people queuing up for favors before the government.
...
And was the government's bumbling there not responsible for letting that attack succeed?


OK .... I read the NDTV story ... it talked about holding the elections in 2008 and can in no way be attributed to any govt sources ... it is based on "anonymous" and "highly placed" sources ...who for all we know could be no more than figments of the journalist's imagination ... and you are right .. LKA was the leader of opposition ... but in our parliamentary setup, the opinion of the leader of opposition counts for a big fat zero when is comes to deciding when the LS should be dissolved ... unless the govt. loses the confidence of the parliament, it is the govt which decides when to request the President to dissolve the Lok Sabha ... that's the way things are ..

As for your second point ... let me turn it around... should private business take precedence over people of India ... because here IPL is trying to compete with the democracy of India... Not with Congress or BJP government ... they are competing with the process of election of the Govt.of India ... I fail to understand what this has to do with the Licence raj :eek: ...

Nobody here denied the govt screwed-up and is screwing-up the Mumbai attacks and its aftermath ... the answer to that is not to change the election dates but to throw the current bunch of incompetent idiots out ...

vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3008
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby vera_k » 23 Mar 2009 08:02

g.kacha wrote:OK .... I read the NDTV story ... it talked about holding the elections in 2008 and can in no way be attributed to any govt sources


Sure. And then if the government was not sure when it would hold the elections and multiple trial balloons were floating around, how was anyone to know when when they would be held? No one can plan in such an environment.

g.kacha wrote:As for your second point ... let me turn it around... should private business take precedence over people of India ... because here IPL is trying to compete with the democracy of India... Not with Congress or BJP government ... they are competing with the process of election of the Govt.of India ... I fail to understand what this has to do with the Licence raj :eek: ...


There is no need for anyone to take precedence as long as the government is willing to live and let live. At this point the government is dictating precedence just because it says so at the spur of the moment.

nishug
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 27 Mar 2007 01:28

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nishug » 23 Mar 2009 11:15

Acharya wrote:They should not be running IPL during LS election time


This amounts to the admission that security situation in INDIA is so bad that INDIA cannot handle both events at the same time. :oops:

nishug
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 27 Mar 2007 01:28

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nishug » 23 Mar 2009 11:20

Acharya wrote:They should not be running IPL during LS election time


Lets assume some hypothetical situation ... we are hosting this world cup right ? say new govt. loses vote of confidence and elections must be held. And again world cup and this election times coincide ... what should we do ?
Last edited by nishug on 23 Mar 2009 11:27, edited 1 time in total.

Avinash R
BRFite
Posts: 1973
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 19:59

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Avinash R » 23 Mar 2009 11:27

There was no need to cancel/postpone or shift IPL out of the country. Since Raj CM ashok gehlot dislikes lalit modi he used his influence to persuade Mah CM and AP CM both congressmen to raise security as an issue and deny permission to hold the matches in their respective states. The present day leaders in the congress seem to use every occasion to play politics and even sports is not spared.

Sumeet
BRFite
Posts: 1486
Joined: 22 May 2002 11:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sumeet » 23 Mar 2009 11:34

guys please be realistic.

attacks in indian hinterland cannot be carried w/o local support. Unfortunately in last decade or so the network of ISI/LeT types in India has seen geometric increase. Their penetration is pretty deep. SIMI, IM are just two examples. You don't know many more modules are there that are waiting for wake up signal from their handlers across or within the border [depending on the hierarchy].

On the other hand our security infrastructure isn't good enough. That is pretty evident. There is little political will at the highest level to pursue after the local elements whoever they may be. If IPL is held and congress has to do another Batla house type then its trouble for them electorally or if something happens w/o them knowing then its a mess for our image.

As such IB has warned that preferred targets will be politician campaigning. Or think what if there is an attack on election booth just like there have been in J&K.

I am aware it will be painful to read this, but at this moment we must be practical and admit to our deficiencies to which we ourselves are the biggest contributors.

Sooner or later whether they like it or not Congress [provided they come back in power] have to run after locals w/o which neither ISI or LeT types can launch attack in the Indian hinterland.

But for now whatever forces & intelligence we have available should be primarily used for LS elections w/o stretching them out by adding more responsibility.

Hope that Congress learns from Mumbai attack and does something about local infrastructure within India.

Avinash R
BRFite
Posts: 1973
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 19:59

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Avinash R » 23 Mar 2009 12:02

^The congress CM's of Raj,AP,Mah have pointed out that they cannot provided security for IPL.

The IPL matches are held at only 1 stadium at a time and they claim that they cant provide security there then how can they provide security to literally thousands of elections booths and voting centres during the LS elections.

By their logic shouldn't the LS elections in these 3 states be cancelled until the security sitaution improves there.

Once Kar CM S.M.Krishna had claimed that "it cant provide security" in one of the petitions filed before the Supreme Court. So the SC said if the state govt cant provide security it should be dismissed. After hearing the SC remarks he changed his tunes. Now should the Raj,AP and Mah govts be dismissed for their failure to provide security and president's rule imposed or will they change their positions.

joshvajohn
BRFite
Posts: 1516
Joined: 09 Nov 2006 03:27

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby joshvajohn » 23 Mar 2009 19:25

Has India developed a information system to respond to the next attack in a similar or dissiminlar manner to Mumbai?If there is one what are the proactive steps? Have they planned for intelligence gathering of terrorist camps and training within pakistan?
Any punishment not on ISI but on the terror training camps with evidence will help.

I hope this strategically plans should be in place sooner than later.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9993
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 23 Mar 2009 19:56

Some Lahori logic on display by our HM:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/guj-riots-a-national-shame-not-ipl-going-abroad-pc/437954/

Guj riots a national shame, not IPL going abroad: PC

The Home Minister replied to the heavy criticism received for IPL's relocation of matches outside India.The Home Minister replied to the heavy criticism received for IPL's relocation of matches outside India.

New Delhi: In a sharp reaction to the criticism of the Central Government over the IPL issue, Union Home Minister P Chidambaram on Monday hit back at the BCCI and the BJP, saying that the Cricket tournament was a "shrewd combination of sport and business" and there was no need to add politics to it.

A day after the BCCI announced that the second edition of the IPL was being shifted to a foreign country because of security issues in India, Chidambaram told a press conference that while he had no comment on that decision, he had read a number of statements which obliquely criticised the Central government. "These statements require an answer. Some unwarranted comments also deserve a rejoinder," he added.


Taking on Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi, who had described the shifting of the IPL out of India as a "national shame", the Home Minister said that most people in India thought that the Gujarat communal riots of 2002 were a national shame.


"What is a national shame? Most people in India think that the Gujarat communal riots in 2002 were a national shame. That the Supreme Court should have thought it fit to reject the investigations conducted by the Gujarat Police and to constitute an SIT to re-investigate 14 cases is a matter which brought shame to the fair name of Gujarat.

"When the SIT report filed before the Supreme Court is unveiled I have no doubt it will expose the inability of the Gujarat Government in preventing the horrific incidents and its ineptitude in bringing to justice the perpetrators of the crimes," he said.
:-?

The Pakis will be proud of the way Chidu turned the question on its head and went off in another direction...

He deserves a Lahori-logic-e-Nishan.... :roll:

AjayKK
BRFite
Posts: 1520
Joined: 10 Jan 2008 10:27

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby AjayKK » 23 Mar 2009 20:26

So Shivraj Patil of the finance ministry is playing his part.
Reminds one of Arun Shourie's quote iirc:

The Shivraj Patil of the PMO has replaced the Shivraj Patil of the HM with the Shivraj Patil of the Finance Ministry


Meanwhile, from Lt. Gen S.K. Sinha (Retd) book : Guarding India's Integrity --- A Proactive Governor Speaks

Sensational disclosures have been made by Lt. Gen S.K. Sinha (Retd) as the former Governor of Jammu and Kashmir and, earlier, of Assam providing a new insight into the political games being played in the two strategic states. Mufti Mohammad Sayeed, PDP Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir, he says, "was virtually acting as the political wing of the separatists." Mufti, he adds, "wanted joint control over Kashmiri by India and Pakistan

Gen Sinha was totally opposed to these measures, leading to "a state of cold war between the Raj Bhawan and the State Government while the Mufti was the Chief Minister

The book was released by L.K. Advani, BJP's Prime Ministerial candidate at India International Centre on Monday last. Also included in the book at length is the case of Assam and the continuing problem of illegal migration from Bangladesh. Like his illustrious predecessor, B.K. Nehru, Gen Sinha laments that unlike the previous generation of Congressmen, who valued national interest more than party interests, the new generation of Congressmen thinks and works otherwise, jeopardizing national security for the sake of "vote bank politics" (securing support of Muslims and illegal migrants). More than a crore of Bangladeshis have migrated into India, according to Gen Sinha, who, in his time, submitted a 42-page printed report to the President on the problem. This included a 14-point plan to detect and deport illegal Bangladeshi migrants and put an end to the traitorous influx through stern laws and identity cards and protect the integrity of India.

vsudhir
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2173
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 03:44
Location: Dark side of the moon

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby vsudhir » 24 Mar 2009 00:52

UN rights panel wants India to abolish AFSPA

Concerned over reported disappearance of people in Kashmir, the UN on Monday proposed India to repeal the controversial Armed Forces Special Powers Act.

derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 952
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby derkonig » 24 Mar 2009 01:39

vsudhir wrote:UN rights panel wants India to abolish AFSPA

Concerned over reported disappearance of people in Kashmir, the UN on Monday proposed India to repeal the controversial Armed Forces Special Powers Act.


Well, then we must reportedly repeal AFSPA.

Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7814
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Gerard » 24 Mar 2009 02:57

The Pakis will be proud of the way Chidu turned the question on its head and went off in another direction


He is just responding as a politician, to a political attack made by his opponents during an election campaign. Quite normal.

shyam
BRFite
Posts: 1453
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 11:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby shyam » 24 Mar 2009 11:54

nishug wrote:
Acharya wrote:They should not be running IPL during LS election time


This amounts to the admission that security situation in INDIA is so bad that INDIA cannot handle both events at the same time. :oops:

Wasn't that obvious after Mumbai attack?

shyam
BRFite
Posts: 1453
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 11:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby shyam » 24 Mar 2009 11:57

nishug wrote:
Acharya wrote:They should not be running IPL during LS election time


Lets assume some hypothetical situation ... we are hosting this world cup right ? say new govt. loses vote of confidence and elections must be held. And again world cup and this election times coincide ... what should we do ?

It was known that 5 years ago that next election would happen latest by May 2009. It may happen before that, and that is not an issue. IPL organizers should have picked a date after May 2009.

If an Indian has to pick between Election and IPL, a sensible one would pick election. IPL affects you only for few months. But, impacts of election could last several generations.

Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1195
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Nihat » 24 Mar 2009 12:04

Even if there is talk of AFSPA being repealed , Article 370 must go first.

Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6333
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Dilbu » 24 Mar 2009 13:03

If an Indian has to pick between Election and IPL, a sensible one would pick election. IPL affects you only for few months. But, impacts of election could last several generations

However hard I wish I am not convinced about that. In India very few people understand national priorities let alone vote on the basis of that.

AjayKK
BRFite
Posts: 1520
Joined: 10 Jan 2008 10:27

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby AjayKK » 24 Mar 2009 13:04

Unlike what empty headed minister says, here is the real "talibanisation" of India.

Love Jihad in Kerala

Few days back a secular Malayalam Daily, Kerala Kaumudi exposed shocking revelations about a jihadi organisation named ‘Love Jihad’ which has been conveniently ignored by rest of the media.

Literal translation of the news article

“Love Jihad” which aims to convert by marriage in kerala also

Organisation named as “love Jihad” with objective to trap girls in the web of love in order to marry in kerala also. Its learned that this organisation has converted 100’s of girls through this modus operandi.

Special branch of Police started investigation when more than 4000 such marriages within last 6 months was reported through panchayat directory. Highest concentration of such marriages were reported in Malapurram District of kerala. There are reports of such marriage in other districts also.

This organisation is using a group of young boys from a certain religion. They are instructed to lure girls of a certain religion. As per the instructions to recruits of this organisation, they have to love a girl of "certain religion" within the time frame of 2 weeks and brainwash them to get converted and marry within 6 months. Special instructions to breed atleast 4 kids have also been given. If the target won’t get trapped within first 2 weeks, they are instructed to leave them and move on to another girl.

The money required for this coming from foreign organisations. This organisation has started working in kerala for last 1 year. Modern gadgets like Free Mobile Phone, Bikes and Fashionable dresses are given to the recruits as tools for the mission.

Each district have their own zone chairman’s to oversee the mission. Prior to College admission they make a list of girls segregating them along religious lines



Let us recollect the satrt of the timeline from Mangalore incidents. At that time it was posted that a large number of girls are disappearing from Mangalore and ending up in KozhiKode in Kerala. There was even an IB report that coastal Karnataka is the new ground for recruits and paricularly girls are being recruite d by SIMIans in Kerala for Jihad. It was very clear that girls from Dakshin KT were landing in the Jihadis trap. And now comes thuis report of Love Jihad.

Connecting the sequences, it must be urgently probed if the SIMIans are using ''psychological breakdown'' of the converted by repeatedly subjecting them to physical and mental cruelty like the Iraqi woman who was called "Mother of Believers" and who used rape as a weapon to shame and indoctrinate many young women and then used them as suicide bombers.

This folks unfortunately is the real Talibalisation of South of the Vindhyas and should be tackled on immediate basis. If only the Home Minister gets out of the Shivraj mold :roll:

shyam
BRFite
Posts: 1453
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 11:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby shyam » 24 Mar 2009 13:26

Dilbu wrote:
If an Indian has to pick between Election and IPL, a sensible one would pick election. IPL affects you only for few months. But, impacts of election could last several generations

However hard I wish I am not convinced about that. In India very few people understand national priorities let alone vote on the basis of that.

Yes, I agree with you when you refer to aam aadmi. :) But shouldn't you expect a different opinion from "mature" people discussing in this forum?

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7779
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sachin » 25 Mar 2009 21:26

AjayKK wrote:This folks unfortunately is the real Talibalisation of South of the Vindhyas and should be tackled on immediate basis. If only the Home Minister gets out of the Shivraj mold :roll:

The Karnataka Police and the Karnataka Government I feel has got firm understanding of the situation in Mangalore. I am more worried about the attitude shown by the Kerala Government on this regard. There was even a case of a commie MLA using his daughter to meet his political agenda. The chap's daughter was seen in a tricky situation in a bus, by the bus staff (all commies). The chap was a Muslim, and the bus staff man-handled him and asked the girl to leave the place. The shameless MLA tried to use this incident as the act of Hindutwa Activists. He lost his face, because the incident happened in Karnataka Police jurisdiction, the bus staff was arrested and in the court they spilled the beans.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2009 07:57

I have seen a lot of hand-wringing after the IPL series was shifted out.

I have seen comments like "Humiliation" for India and the suggestion that India should have somehow done something to have the IPL and elections over the same period. Hearing these thins is surreal but familiar - the idea that something should be done to "avoid humiliation" and presumably maintain honor and dignity would have sounded funny to me if it had been on a Paki forum.

It only means that too many forum members are totally out of touch with how police are very thin on the ground in India and how, if law and order occurs over large parts of India it is because of the people themselves maintaining a degree of law and order without supervision.

One forum member even had the rhetorical ability to exclaim "A nation of 1 million army men and additional forces!! :(( :(( " This is fine rhetoric but ignorance or even idiocy being displayed on "the best and most informative website and forum" about Indian security issues.

Let me post a link to Police-Population ratios in various countries Check India out

http://nitawriter.wordpress.com/2007/08 ... ice-ratio/
Here are the statistics from nationmaster:
    Hong Kong: 4.79374 per 1,000 people
    Malaysia: 3.43936 per 1,000 people
    Thailand: 3.35665 per 1,000 people
    Germany: 2.91153 per 1,000 people
    Hungary: 2.88528 per 1,000 people
    Spain: 2.86696 per 1,000 people
    South Africa: 2.7668 per 1,000 people
    Poland: 2.61367 per 1,000 people
    Norway: 2.42412 per 1,000 people
    Turkey: 2.38057 per 1,000 people
    Australia: 2.09293 per 1,000 people
    France: 2.049 per 1,000 people
    United Kingdom: 2.04871 per 1,000 people
    Switzerland: 1.93617 per 1,000 people
    Netherlands: 1.92448 per 1,000 people
    Denmark: 1.91716 per 1,000 people
    Korea, South: 1.85461 per 1,000 people
    Japan: 1.81103 per 1,000 people
    Sri Lanka: 1.72484 per 1,000 people
    Canada: 1.70767 per 1,000 people
    Zimbabwe: 1.68859 per 1,000 people
    Finland: 1.56347 per 1,000 people
    Zambia: 1.13674 per 1,000 people
    INDIA: 0.956207 per 1,000 people
    Costa Rica: 0.370767 per 1,000 people


There in an article today about police reforms and how poor policing is in India in Today's Times of India (That Christian owned antinational daily). I was unable to find it online but here is a news item about the same subject from 2007. Note that BJP ruled states are as bad as states ruled by other parties.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... page-1.cms
NEW DELHI: Most states have in varying degrees fallen in line with the fresh deadline set by the Supreme Court for effecting police reforms. But six major states Gujarat, J&K, Maharashtra, Rajasthan, Tamil Nadu and Uttar Pradesh continue to defy the apex court's direction to loosen the executive's grip over the police.

This despite the fact that other states such as Andhra Pradesh, Bihar, Kerala and West Bengal abandoned their defiance after SC had extended the deadline for police reforms from December 31 to March 31.

In a slew of reforms ordered by SC, all states are required to put in place an institutional framework to insulate police officers from carrying out illegal orders as well as to deal with complaints against errant personnel.

Much to their dismay, states have also been directed to provide a minimum tenure of at least two years for DGP, who should be selected from a short-list of officers compiled by UPSC. The big picture that emerges from affidavits filed by states this month before SC to report compliance with the fresh deadline is as follows:

Nine small states, mostly from the north-east, have complied with the deadline by setting up necessary bodies and making necessary amendments in the rules. The compliant states are: Arunachal Pradesh, Meghalaya, Mizoram, Nagaland, Sikkim, Goa, Jharkhand, Manipur and Uttarakhand.

Seven larger states have partially complied with the SC deadline. They are Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Chhattisgarh, Orissa, Madhya Pradesh, Punjab and West Bengal. None of them has set up the required state security commission and police complaints authority. But they took other measures such as the provision of a fixed tenure to DGP and field officers.

Four states seem to have passed laws not so much to comply with the SC order as to circumvent it. They are Bihar, Haryana, Karnataka and Kerala.


What do people expect? Magic? :roll:

By blaming the current government it is being implied that the BJP or even the commies might be better. That is only playing into the hands of he equally corrupt BJP and commies who will take any support they get to bash their opponents.

India has a long way to go before we get anywhere near reasonably good internal security. Anyone who understands that will be thankful that IPL has been booted out. Exactly what was all the crying about? I thought everyone understands the state of affairs in India. I was obviously wrong.

pgbhat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4081
Joined: 16 Dec 2008 21:47
Location: Hayden's Ferry

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby pgbhat » 26 Mar 2009 08:02

Zimbabwe: 1.68859 per 1,000 people :eek:
Finland: 1.56347 per 1,000 people
Zambia: 1.13674 per 1,000 people :eek:
INDIA: 0.956207 per 1,000 people

looks like desh is third world onlee. :roll:

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54005
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 26 Mar 2009 09:11

On the contrary shows that Indians are mostly law abiding and require minimal policing. And the police are needed for the minuscule scofflaws.

pgbhat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4081
Joined: 16 Dec 2008 21:47
Location: Hayden's Ferry

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby pgbhat » 26 Mar 2009 09:21

ramana wrote:On the contrary shows that Indians are mostly law abiding and require minimal policing. And the police are needed for the minuscule scofflaws.

Hmm....... then why do we crib about shortage of officers when it comes to intel gathering/analysis ? :(

Tilak
BRFite
Posts: 733
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 20:19
Location: Old Lal Masjid @BRFATA (*Renovation*)

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Tilak » 26 Mar 2009 10:05

shiv wrote:I have seen a lot of hand-wringing after the IPL series was shifted out.

I have seen comments like "Humiliation" for India and the suggestion that India should have somehow done something to have the IPL and elections over the same period. Hearing these thins is surreal but familiar - the idea that something should be done to "avoid humiliation" and presumably maintain honor and dignity would have sounded funny to me if it had been on a Paki forum.

It only means that too many forum members are totally out of touch with how police are very thin on the ground in India and how, if law and order occurs over large parts of India it is because of the people themselves maintaining a degree of law and order without supervision.

One forum member even had the rhetorical ability to exclaim "A nation of 1 million army men and additional forces!! :(( :(( " This is fine rhetoric but ignorance or even idiocy being displayed on "the best and most informative website and forum" about Indian security issues.

Let me post a link to Police-Population ratios in various countries Check India out

http://nitawriter.wordpress.com/2007/08 ... ice-ratio/
Here are the statistics from nationmaster:
    Hong Kong: 4.79374 per 1,000 people
    Malaysia: 3.43936 per 1,000 people
    Thailand: 3.35665 per 1,000 people
    Germany: 2.91153 per 1,000 people
    Hungary: 2.88528 per 1,000 people
    Spain: 2.86696 per 1,000 people
    South Africa: 2.7668 per 1,000 people
    Poland: 2.61367 per 1,000 people
    Norway: 2.42412 per 1,000 people
    Turkey: 2.38057 per 1,000 people
    Australia: 2.09293 per 1,000 people
    France: 2.049 per 1,000 people
    United Kingdom: 2.04871 per 1,000 people
    Switzerland: 1.93617 per 1,000 people
    Netherlands: 1.92448 per 1,000 people
    Denmark: 1.91716 per 1,000 people
    Korea, South: 1.85461 per 1,000 people
    Japan: 1.81103 per 1,000 people
    Sri Lanka: 1.72484 per 1,000 people
    Canada: 1.70767 per 1,000 people
    Zimbabwe: 1.68859 per 1,000 people
    Finland: 1.56347 per 1,000 people
    Zambia: 1.13674 per 1,000 people
    INDIA: 0.956207 per 1,000 people
    Costa Rica: 0.370767 per 1,000 people




Crime Statistics >Police (per capita) (most recent) by country

INDIA: 0.956207 per 1,000 people
South Africa: 2.7668 per 1,000 people
United Kingdom: 2.04871 per 1,000 people



Crime Statistics > Total crimes (per capita) (most recent) by country
#6 United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people
#22 South Africa: 2.7668 per 1,000 people
#59 India: 1.63352 per 1,000 people


Military Statistics > Military Capabilities > Active Troops (most recent) by country
#1 China: 2,255,000
#2 United States: 1,415,289
#3 India: 1,325,000


:mrgreen: :((
Last edited by Tilak on 26 Mar 2009 10:08, edited 1 time in total.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54005
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 26 Mar 2009 10:06

Thanks Tilak.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9993
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 26 Mar 2009 10:17

The after effects of the IPL fiasco start showing. Expect it to gather momentum very soon:
Link
Hyderabad: Three days after the IPL was shifted overseas, foreign athletes have begun to cite the movement as evidence that India is unsafe for international sport. Badminton England has pulled out its players from the ongoing Indian Open championship here, following a travel advisory issued by the British and Commonwealth Foreign Office.

“The IPL has been moved out of India, so nobody can deny that there are concerns (about security),” William Kings, Press Officer, Badminton England, told The Indian Express.

Kings said the two players in the English contingent — Carl Baxter and Rajiv Ouseph — took their own decisions to not travel to India, but they were “guided” by badminton’s governing body in England


Link

In a communication with TOI, the ITF’s communications officer Nick Imison confirmed that Tennis Australia had indeed written to the ITF asking for the Asia-Oceania Group I third round tie to be moved. The ITF on its part had sent out a questionnaire to the All India Tennis Association last week. The AITA answered the questionnaire and returned it to the ITF late on Monday.

"I’m quite sure everything will be OK and we can hold the tie in India," Col Chauhan, executive director of the AITA, said. "I personally went to Chennai to oversee everything. In January we had the Chennai ATP event there. It was held after 26/11 and it was very successful. We’ll be using the same stadium, the same hotel, and the same security agency for the Davis Cup tie too. We’ve also got government support. That’s the reason we chose Chennai over the other venues. It’s absolutely safe."

The ITF confirmed the receipt of the Indian federation’s reply.

"Irrespective of whether a security issue is raised or not, our security advisors look into security aspects of every single Davis Cup tie. We will proceed on those lines. Security is of utmost importance. Our security advisors will look into the issue and get back to us in a week’s time," Imison said.

Stan_Savljevic
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3522
Joined: 21 Apr 2006 15:40

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 26 Mar 2009 10:19

Sum saar, please check sports thread for response.

Stan_Savljevic
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3522
Joined: 21 Apr 2006 15:40

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 26 Mar 2009 15:16

The decline of the ‘encounter death’ --- Praveen Swami
Media accounts since have elevated the charge that India’s police officers are trigger-happy bigots to the level of received truth. Little effort has been made, though, to see if the allegations rest on sound empirical foundations. They don’t. In fact, the police are reducing their reliance on lethal force, and shedding communal partisanship. The reason why they do not rely on force helps to explain just why India’s democracy, often reviled by metropolitan elites, is so important to hundreds of millions of voters.
....
Put simply, there is no evidence to support the claim that there is an increased incidence of extra-judicial executions of Muslims — or, for that matter, Hindus. Even though police forces across India have intensified intelligence-led operations targeting Islamist groups, the NCRB data for 2007 show a sharp decline in the use of lethal force.
....
Rather than religion or caste, Mr. Rizvi concluded, class constituted an accurate marker of which sections of the population were over-represented in prisons. More than 84 per cent of the prison population, he found, was made up of the poor — more than twice their share of the general population, as determined by the National Council for Applied Economic Research. It wasn’t, Mr. Rizvi noted, that the poor were more likely to steal: “the fact is that the poor criminal is promptly sent to jail for stealing 5 pieces of iron from the rail yard, one bicycle or pick-pocketing Rs. 50. He goes to jail for these crimes and stays there — unable to afford a lawyer, sureties or patronage.”
....
By global standards, the use of lethal force by the police in India is relatively low. Figures published in 1987 show that the police in Dallas, Texas, killed 1.03 people per 1,00,000 population the previous year. San Diego was next, with 0.83 people killed per 100,000, followed by Los Angeles with 0.71 deaths. Far from being trigger-happy, these figures suggest, India’s police forces are extremely cautious in resorting to lethal force.
....
Police forces everywhere in the world reflect the biases of the societies which give birth to them. It ought to surprise no one that some police officers in India have communal prejudices. The good news for India is that democracy appears to be making it ever more difficult for bigots in uniform to act on their beliefs.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/03/26/stories ... 540800.htm

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9993
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 26 Mar 2009 16:17

I dont agree with this straight forward analysis of just checking % of certain class/religion filling a jail being compared witht he % that class makes of the entire population....

Swami himself says:
Muslim prisoners accounted for 39 per cent of the jail population, marginally lower than their demographic representation. While Dalits made up 21 per cent of the district population, they constituted just 19 per cent of the prisoners; Brahmins, in a twist, were somewhat over-represented in jail.

Does it mean brahmins are being victimised?

Wouldn't hell have broken loose if by chance, the muslim % in jails was higher than their % in population (~14%) with all our "seculars" jumping up and down??

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2009 18:09

ramana wrote:On the contrary shows that Indians are mostly law abiding and require minimal policing. And the police are needed for the minuscule scofflaws.


But when extra police are needed for special occasions they are just not available. The police are thinly spread out and the facilities poor Frankly it is a sense of justice /dharma that keeps India going without policing.

Naturally the intel and policing required to keep a tab on terrorism is absent. Recall also that the 0.9 per thousand figure in India is an average. With Mulayam and Rahul Gandhi getting 100 policemen or more - you can expect that 5000 netas hog up about 5 lakh policemen. So the ratio for the rest of India is likely to be even less than 0.9 per thousand.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54005
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 30 Mar 2009 23:52

We used to have a thread on Terrorism indicators. Too bad its lost now

A pdf of a paper on terror networks in India. I recall in that old thread there was ref to a software prgram developed for network analysis in India. This paper refers to it.

Terror networks in India

Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1195
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Nihat » 31 Mar 2009 18:05

CNN-IBN reporting a blast in Jyoti Kuchi in Guwahati. Anyone have more details on this.

Atri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4152
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 21:07

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Atri » 31 Mar 2009 18:17

ToI is reporting blasts in Guwahati... 1 killed and 5 injured, so far.... :( :evil:

Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1195
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Nihat » 31 Mar 2009 18:36

Guwahati: A bomb blast has been reported from a place in Guwahati where Union Minister Pranab Mukherjee was to hold a rally on Tuesday.

At least one person died and 10 were injured in the blast at Jyoti Kuchi on Tuesday evening, intelligence officials told CNN-IBN.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/blast-in-guw ... 150-3.html

Yogi_G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2400
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 04:10
Location: Punya Bhoomi -- Jambu Dweepam

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Yogi_G » 31 Mar 2009 19:55

Hindu centre page article on sighting of boat carrying about 10+ men off the Kerala coast. Men had sacks similar to the Mumbai attackers. Boat sighted by UAV, choppers dispatched to interecept boat, too late boat merged with local boats and so did the men with the local population, security forces in area on high vigil

vsudhir
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2173
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 03:44
Location: Dark side of the moon

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby vsudhir » 31 Mar 2009 20:47


Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7779
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sachin » 31 Mar 2009 21:59

Yogi_G wrote:Hindu centre page article on sighting of boat carrying about 10+ men off the Kerala coast. Men had sacks similar to the Mumbai attackers. Boat sighted by UAV

Is this a new incident or one which was reported nearly 48 hours back? Because the incident seems to be a false alarm. Navy, Coast Guard and the state police went on high alert. Finally it was found to be fishermen transferring some stuff from one boat to another.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests