Indian Response to Terrorism

[Victor]

Stopping terror in India is actually quite simple: it requires a response like America's after 9-11. The Americans blindly killed a million or more Muslims without batting an eyelid and simply froze further terror on US soil--the Islamists now have no illusions about what another attack will bring them.

We don't have to be quite as crude & uncivilized (although there's no reason why we shouldn't be) but we can be equally effective. If we can find a way to stop the flow of water to pakistan and bangladesh for a few weeks at a time with plausible deniability, say "militant" attacks on the dams, we have a chance of succeeding. The sequence is: attack/choke - repair/flush - attack/choke - repair/flush... We are both victims of "militants" onlee.

The plausible deniability is a MUST. Deny and condemn with cluck-clucking sounds till the cows come home.

Water is the fault line in both pakistan and bangladesh and the ruthless (but plausibly deniable) application of water controls will tame both ratholes.

[pran]

What is wrong with our Italian Kangress leadership ? Have they lost their senses.. betraying Indians with every breath they take.

They are muddling the issue of summoning the chief terrorist of ISI as an invitation. As our Dr.Shiv has pointed to me earlier nothing will happen as long as we have these worthless spineless people leading India. All our leadership could muster is barely audible squeak that someone in our neighborhood played foul.

Some Foreign Office Babu should get out to the media and spell out the diktat. Start giving marching orders to the Pakis.

[Prem]

Hi Victor,
Suuni Jihadis are there in valley and its a perfect oppertunity to arrange their reward of 72s. If we dont exploit it now we will keep paying the price for long. One call from GOI will solve the Kore issue in one week by average Indians.

[enqyoob]

Ppl are barking up the wrong tree on this "invitation to ISI" issue. What happened (as Sonia told me yesterday) is that GOI gave a "summons" exactly as the Indian media reported. The Interpol is also coming to Dilli. The ISI chief is concerned that when he lands in Dilli, he may get a swift transfer to an Interpol / CIA "Rendition" aircraft waiting at the corner of the airport. I hear that Poland and Czechoslovakia have great resort facilities that the CIA has been using for visiting Paki terrorists.

Someone told me they were watching on TV when Quereshi was talking on the phone to the Indian Minister (Pranab?) Conversation started with Qureshi his usual cocky self, enquiring after the halat of the desi, but swiftly his expression changed, his jaw dropped, face lengthened, and he ended call to rush off (probably to "Isloomabad") to get his bottle of Pepto Bismol.

The desi Kendra Mantris are also feeling the heat on their musharrafs, so u can be sure they are not feeling kindly towards the Pakis.

[Prem]

Are you talking about "this is not an Invitation " but summons from High command of Internet .

Send ISI Cheif now or i will send another Invitation

[brihaspati]

Friends,
Nothing to expect on the Pakistani front except more harangues. The international situation as well as the fact that it was Pakistan which called the shots and therefore is prepared militarily where it expects Indian possible retaliation - means no immediate military action. Its best to concentrate on the immediate internal tasks - (1) campaign for brutal electoral penalization of any regime in central power in whose term terror attacks take place, and we can also think of extending this to local forces to (2) socio-economic boycott of "enemies of the nation" - those perceived within the media, academics or politics.

[gandharva]

I can't believe this.

On Saturday, the Congress issued a full-page advertisement in its favourite newspaper, listing the various terrorist strikes during the NDA years, casually mentioning the fidayeen attacks in Mumbai, saluting the security personnel killed in these incidents, and then preachily declaring that terrorism is a “national issue, not a political game”.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/137775/‘Sho ... ecord.html

[gandharva]

To see Pakistan as the root of the problem is akin to saying that there is too much evil in this god-forsaken kaliyug. That there are “elements within Pakistan” (Manmohan Singh’s attempt at subtlety) committed to the destruction of India, its civilisation and its way of life is undeniable. But this has been true for more than 60 years and is likely to be true as long as long as the impulses that divided the country persist. It also comes as no surprise to learn that the ISI may well have facilitated the Mumbai attack. But hasn’t this been true for the past 30 years? Presenting a dossier to an ISI representative when he comes to Delhi to face the combined wrath of the Prime Minister and the Home Minister-a prospect that is about as terrifying as being savaged by a dead sheep-is a bit like confronting Dawood Ibrahim with evidence. What will fascinate Lt-Gen Ahmed Shujaa Pasha, who brushed off India’s summons with contempt, is not finding out how much India knows but gauging just how much we don't know.

Making Pakistan the focus of our post-Mumbai recriminations is a juicy distraction which begs the question that Manmohan Singh and Shivraj Patil don't want to answer: What have we as a nation done to protect ourselves against this menace? The answer, regrettably, is: Precious little.


It's distressing to face the truth. But whether we like it or not the LeT's successful fidayeen attack on Mumbai is the best recruitment messages for hordes of impressionable Muslim youth. You can almost hear the lunatic from the pulpit boasting that if 10 mujahjdeen could keep the Indian State at bay for 60 hours, imagine what a thousand could do. After Mumbai, jihadis will not recoil in horror at the devastation their colleagues have done; they will intensify their campaign and engage in competitive bravado. The prospects for the future are horrifying. The ineptitude of our internal security apparatus has been exposed before the whole world. We can either act or decide that we are incapable of performing any better. In which case sheer self-preservation demands we outsource the job of R&AW and IB to Mossad or MI6 or CIA-depending on our preferences. It is preferable to being mowed down by bullets the next time we go to a mall or an Italian restaurant. Our soldiers are good, very good, but fighting terrorists in Mumbai is not their core competence.

All politicians, the English language TV channels tell us whenever the Congress is slightly beleaguered, are the real problem. Since we can't and shouldn't be governed by either the military or the police, this is a problem we have to fix. Cynicism is healthy but an overdose is counter-productive. Manmohan Singh and his Government have bungled and bungled grievously. The Congress and particularly the haughty woman who inflicted Shivraj Patil on India, must be punished. Yet we will need an alternative that is committed to India winning the war on two fronts-against terror and against economic mismanagement. It can be a meaningful alternative if its sheds the cupboard full of crazy home remedies and expired medicine that it has accumulated over the years. Mumbai has rung out the Manmohan Government; it is in all our interest to ring in a new but effective dispensation. The friends of India are watching but so are the enemies of India.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/137939/Mumb ... -Govt.html

[Dhiman]

There is a time to act and there is a time to give lectures and listen to lectures about "resiliency."

If we haven't started a war after so many terrorist actions by Pakistan, why are we so scared to think that Pakistan will start a war if we take punitive measures.

The cost of not taking any punitive action is too high right now. It will send out the message that India will keep on analyzing and philosophizing and getting paralyzed as a result while ISI counties to inflict loss without any worry of retaliation.

We are the biggest bull's eye on earth. Politicians will keep on chattering, terrorists will keep on attacking, and we will keep on sitting doing nothing.

Act first and then send the summons.

[pran]

Sheriff-e-Mahdi,
DDM is reporting about "We must do something" meeting with the desi kendra mantris.



and all we are waiting for the next sheriff to be elected in the next elections.

[ramana]

The first step is to setup unity govt right now. That shows the closing of ranks between the divisions in Indian polity. If this cant happen then the current govt has to go. They have failed the Constituional oath they took when they were sworn into office.

[ramana]

Need to raise more special ops groups and station them in several locations.

Need to upgrade the beat cops with cell phones.

Need to remove heirarchial constraints for response to terrorist attacks.

Need to have a media/ information cooridinator at state and national level for such emergencies.
- During Kargil the Airfoce briefing led by Air Cdre. D Ganesh was superb in providing status.

Need real BPJs that are effective and lightweight and issued to all police units regardless. Folks should take them off for any reason.

Need to redevelop urban police networks in trouble prone areas.

Intelligence has to be in concurrent list.

Need to develop a reduced charge warhead for the Carl Gustav weapon. Say 1/2 kg splintering war head for Close quarter battle(CQB) in urban terrorist atmosphere. Some thing that takes out a room occupants without bringing down the walls.

More as they come to mind.

[samuel.chandra]

Nesoj,

I couldnt agree with you more. Very practical solutions.

Additional long term solutions:
- National ID scheme proposed by Dr Kalam (helps tracking everything every individual does and then patterns could be analyzed). I think the current govt has already started with the UID scheme.
- IT fication of every govt function. So people dont have to pay bribes for every little application to get approved. The bribes eventually get to the politicians and goons who act as the go between OR collect hafta from the hafta-collectors.

LET'S CLEAN OUR OWN BACKYARD

While lot is being bandied about regarding logistics provided by Dawood Inc sitting in Pukistan, why is it still in existance in India ?

Apparently he, sitting in a rathole in Karachi controls Mumbai's
- Satta gambling
- Diesel Smuggling
- Land rackets
- Drug & Gold smuggling
- Prostitution etc etc
- Film Industry (few)

He is not controlling this by remote control alone. All his henchmen, apparatus, infrastructure is HERE IN MUMBAI, all know it is there, what what has happened all these years to control it - NOTHING (except to crib - that Dawood is in Pukistan)
In case we just ignore Dawood for once, and concentrate on dismanteling his entire network and capturing his henchmen here in India- he becomes irrelevent. What prevents India from this - JUST LACK OF WILL & POLITICAL PATRONAGE. The day India starts 'bottom up' rather than sitting on their a$$e$ waiting to control this 'top down', this problem can be eliminated.

Secondly Pukistan claims that Dawood is not there. Further he is an Indian citizen (traitor that he is) -- what prevents GOI offering a bounty of say $10M on Dawood (dead or alive) - Pukistan should have no problem in case someone shoots him in Karachi as he was not there in the first place. I'm sure $10M is quite big a sum to interest a few unsavoury types to turn sides.

[RajeshA]

One response to this attack, is to attack Pakistan in the European Press, in places like Germany, France, Sweden, all the places from where Pakistan buys its defense hardware. US would go ahead and supply to Pakistan, but in some European countries, the governments are sensible to their image.

At the moment, the Mumbai attacks are front page news in Europe. Now is the time, to flood the News Portals with comments, as well as the press media if possible.

It is possible to stop Germany selling any submarines to Pakistan Navy, as well as other items on their shopping lists.

BRF members can start criticizing such sales of these countries, all over Europe.

[Neshant]

One response to this attack, is to attack Pakistan in the European Press

To which Neshant responds:
"a pathetic idea."

{A pathetic excuse for a comment. Rajesh above posted something PRACTICAL, that BRF members could do. He gave his reasoning. Your response, starting with a moronic one-line sneer, is to propose what GOI "should" do. IOW, emulate Paki terrorism. Wow! What a BRILLIANT idea! WHY hasn't anyone thought of that, I wonder? }

instead of trying to convince foreigners (its not in their interest that India be free from terrorism anyway as they lose leverage), how about some proactive policies from GOI.

Setup a covert squad to kill high profile targets across the border. Pay a large dollar value per kill of a target. People like LET head sallaudin or whatever his name is should be easy to find and assasinate.

if the govt had a bounty of a million dollars on his head, hell even I would give it a shot.

[sanjaykumar]

Victor wrote:

Stopping terror in India is actually quite simple: it requires a response like America's after 9-11. The Americans blindly killed a million or more Muslims without batting an eyelid and simply froze further terror on US soil--the Islamists now have no illusions about what another attack will bring them.

We don't have to be quite as crude & uncivilized (although there's no reason why we shouldn't be) but we can be equally effective.


Of course that is the truth that no one dare utter. The palefaces may tut-tut the level of violence in India but the violence inflicted by white, civilised Christian nations on Islamic lands in the last 15 years (since Gulf War-1 ) has been both unbelievable and effectively censored. Not that Bubba in his alehouse would cry into his beer for 1 million Muslims killed.

I find violence abhorent but I find Hindu pedantry and selfpity perhaps worse. They have learnt nothing from a thousand years of licking the boot. The next 20 years should only have Sikhs and Jews elected to top office in India; I have no hope from Hindus.

[shyamd]

I have said it once before, will say it again. It needs to be covert ops. Beirut style raid needed in Karachi, take care of this LeT commander and bring him to justice or deliver justice.

But once again... All can be done. Are the politico's ready? or sadly are our intel agencies ready?

If it is going to happen, I don't think it will be done without Israeli/western intelligence and help (reflecting the state of Yindian intel).

[Rahul M]

I have said it once before, will say it again. It needs to be covert ops. Beirut style raid needed in Karachi, take care of this LeT commander and bring him to justice or deliver justice.

shyamd, pakistan is not lebanon. in spite of appearances to the contrary, israel has things easier than India ever will.

[A_Gupta]

Prof. Balagangadhara (Balu), U. Ghent, wrote this, it may be of interest here:

Following the horrific events in Mumbai, many suggestions and ideas are floating around about the identity of the terrorists, their motives, their nationalities and the cause(s) of the attack. In some senses, these ideas and explanations fall within the limits of predictable parameters: the Hindu-Muslim conflict in India, the issue of Kashmir, links with international terrorist units, the resentment among the Indian Muslims, and so on. While some such speculations could be true, there is something else that needs to be taken into account.

Let me begin with the fact that no known group has claimed responsibility for the multiple attacks in Mumbai. In fact, one of the suspect groups, Lashkar-e-Taiba has explicitly denied authorship even though some e-mails have been received from Deccan Mujahedeen, a hitherto unknown entity. As a result of this, the `aim' of these attacks is also unknown. Specifically focussed acts, like the Mumbai attacks, do not have the propagation of general issues like the `plight of the Kashmiri Muslims', `the support of India for the US foreign policy' or anything analogous as their aim. Of course, both commonsense and newspaper pundits will sooner or later bring such issues and link them to the goal of these attacks, but I think they are wrong: the Mumbai attacks were far too focussed to be commensurate with a vague and general goal.

The second striking thing, I find, is the apparent irrationality of these attacks, even when looked at from within the framework of the terrorist rationality. Sending well-trained people armed only with AK-47 and grenades, knowing that none will make it back (with a chance of capture as well), while they could have created even more damage with armed bombs placed at strategic places suggests that this event was planned to take place exactly the way it unfurled. That is to say, mayhem was a secondary focus of this whole exercise: there is something else to the Mumbai attacks than highlighting a `social issue' or killing people at random or dying for a certain `cause'.

1. I think that the attacks in Mumbai were a response to the rather inept and amateurish bombings that took place earlier this year in multiple sites in India: Bangalore, Delhi, Surat, Jaipur and Hyderabad. Mumbai is a demonstration lesson for the would-be terrorists in India and abroad: how to make use of the local resources, exploit the local conditions and work with local elements in order to achieve the maximum result. This lesson is being taught to the potential recruits in India and abroad by an influential section of the international terrorists.

2. Why the need for a lesson, and who is doing the teaching? To answer this question, we need to understand how the face of terrorism has changed in the course of the last decades. In the latter part of the twentieth century, terrorism remained both local and provincial. It was local in the sense that some or another cell (or an organization with a pseudo-military structure) undertook (mostly) small scale attacks against locally known figures. It was provincial in the sense that the attacks had very little ripple effects outside the locality (or the nation) where such events took place.

The basic "business model" (it will very soon become clear why I use an economic metaphor in this case) was also provincial: some or another country was the place for the would-be terrorists to go to, get trained in some aspects of warfare, and rely on that country for supplies and guidelines.

The terrorists were also locally organized: they functioned mostly in the form of cells that were relatively isolated from each other, and they were dependent on well-wishers and sympathizers to keep them active and alive. As a consequence, at the maximum, they were mostly annexes and appendices to the foreign policy of some or another nation and were also used in this fashion.

Given this, the association of terrorists, both nationally and internationally, took the form of networks: loosely connected at the outer rims of their organizations, these networks were something like fraternity clubs that meet on big occasions or at celebrations. They were either uncoordinated or only very loosely coordinated by the sponsoring nation.

3. Beginning with the attacks of 9/11, I believe we see a metamorphosis in the nature and structure of these terrorist `networks': they are now being transformed into a multinational enterprise. Through mergers, takeovers, and the establishing of new branches, the terrorist networks of yesteryears are transforming themselves into a true multinational firm. They are `thinking globally while acting locally': bombs, suicide bombers and rockets in Iraq and Israel, aeroplanes in the US, grenades and AK-47s in India. They do not have a single signature or a modus operandi: they are adapting, changing and transforming their ways of working to suit the conditions they find themselves in. They effortlessly undertake purely criminal activities (just think of the drug money in Afghanistan), mix easily with the local criminal population but yet manage to retain their identities as `elites'. These are their equivalents of joint-partnerships with local firms.

4. The war in Afghanistan sounds the death knell of the old business model of going to a particular place for training, living with other `comrades' in tents, and learning to make a bomb or blow up an armoured vehicle. Today, one has to make use of local conditions and develop strategies for dealing with different places in different ways. This, I believe, is the biggest lesson of Mumbai: instead of ineptly trying to copy Iraq and Afghanistan, the terrorists are being taught the lesson of how to be maximally effective in exploiting local conditions. This lesson was needed because the Indian terrorists created no waves despite simultaneous bombings in multiple sites in India; the international leadership stepped in to teach them how to act so that the maximum could be achieved. I believe that this is how the leadership demonstrated how things have to be done, perhaps at the behest of the terrorists in India, aimed at a very broad group of would-be terrorists across the globe.

5. This has very important implications for policy makers. One cannot treat the terrorists anymore in terms of loosely coordinated networks. Today, we confront a multinational firm with a clear `business model'. Much the same way the national governments are helpless in controlling multinational firms, national intelligence agencies will not be able to do much about this emerging phenomenon. Exchanging `intelligence' among each other, or coordinating activities on an ad hoc basis are not sufficient anymore to contain and neutralize this threat. Neither the removal of a CEO (say, an Osama Bin Laden) nor the destruction of a training camp (say, in the tribal areas in Afghanistan) will damage this `business model'. At the very least, we need a multinational intelligence agency with a clear mandate and the required legal powers to successfully take on the transformed nature of crime in the era of globalization, namely, terrorism.

6. If we forget to look at this crucial dimension but instead focus only on the `Hindu-Muslim' conflict or the possible role of Pakistan or the religious identities of the terrorists, then, I think, we fail to learn from Mumbai while most would-be terrorists would have learnt their lesson.

(from TheHeathenInHisBlindness yahoo egroup. Originally posted on RISA-L)

[sunilUpa]

Are there any official Indian statement after the operation is completed? i.e apart from RRpatils words of wisdom.

[enqyoob]

OT post:

Are RISA_L posts visible on the web? I thought they went underground because they couldn't stand heathen peasants reading their gems and using them against their self-proclaimed "Scholars"? One of moi's less advertised successes - driving them underground. Of course I am not referring to Prof. BG - he was barely ALLOWED to post there in those days by the "scholars"

[brihaspati]

Lebanese targets are not very far from Israeli bases, and the last war with the Hezbollah was won by the Hezbollah and not Israel. Covert ops are not entirely impossible though, as commonalities in language, physical features, along the northern borders of India can help. There are two big problems though (1) there will be no local community support for the Indian side which Muslim terrorists from Pakistan get in India (2) whereas no Muslim will betray his religious brethren there will be plenty of "Hindu"s available to leak out info to the Pakistani side. The covert ops will take off one or more individual leaders - but Islamic Jihad will replace them immediately. The entire Pakistani society and state machinery will protect these terrorists with no support being available anywhere within Pakistan for the covert operatives from India. Why are we again and again failing to understand the nature of Islamic society ? - in India no Muslim has come forward with information on the terrorists in proper time to prevent major attacks, even though everything points to substantial community support towards the preparatory stages of terrorism. This tendency will be even more strong within the limits of Pakistan. There is nothing that India can offer to buy out Pakistani Muslims to double cross on behalf of India - they gain much much more by actually destroying non-Muslim India - all its land, wealth and women - the declared goal of Jihad. Pakistani Muslims dream of and openly claim, supported with much shedding of tears from the Western academics and media, that power should have been restored to the Muslims when the British left - for it was Islam and Muslims that rules this subcontinent before - and that in the future, Allah willing, this will be done again. They really do stand to gain a lot by carrying out Jihad - and they dont gain much by what India can offer them. Indians will restrict themselves and hide behind their lofty philosophical excuses not to use the tactics of Jihad successfully used by Muslims back on them - and so Muslims know that they simply have to continue in their Jihad, for they themselves will never face retaliatory Jihad style culling of all males sporting pubic hair, enslavement and rape of all women, and children, and complete destruction of all their cultural icons, the mosques and the dargahs, and they can simply survive and multiply until the day comes when non-Muslims are simply tired to the death.

Frankly speaking, all this talk of civilized restraint is what one day will lead to the formation of and extreme violence from a "Right" in India - and its activities will be bloodier than what Islam could have ever imagined. It is better to realize the proper source of the danger and try and eliminate it from within India itself first - if we want to prevent that extreme bloodshed.

[vera_k]

Frankly speaking, all this talk of civilized restraint is what one day will lead to the formation of and extreme violence from a "Right" in India - and its activities will be bloodier than what Islam could have ever imagined. It is better to realize the proper source of the danger and try and eliminate it from within India itself first - if we want to prevent that extreme bloodshed.

Why would we want to prevent it? As long as most of this violence is directed outside Indian borders, it serves our purposes. For now, civilized restraint it is!

[A_Gupta]

narayanan - as he is a full fledged academic in the field of religion in south asia, RISA-L can hardly keep Balu out No, RISA-L is not available to us regular folks, but Balu cross-posted it to a yahoo egroup.

I have a fearful feeling that Balu is right, that this may have been a proof-of-concept and we'll see dozens of copycats in the days ahead. India cannot create NSGs fast enough.

[brihaspati]

well I would personally welcome it - but there seems to be a lot of concern at the moment that "extreme Right" should not develop! If people do not want such a thing to happen they should become a little "Right" now and start dealing with the ideology of terror. Such extreme Right may not also just look across the border but could look at also "enemies within" with the same perception.

[Rudradev]

Moderators, begging your indulgence here.

All fellow BR-ites, I haven't once spammed BR with a link to my "Photochor" movie (since the time I first released it in 2005).

However, I think it's important to dramatically boost the view rating of that movie on Youtube right at this moment. A lot of Indians who wouldn't ordinarily be interested, might watch it if it comes to their attention at a time like this... boosting the view rating will likely bring it to their attention as "most discussed", etc.

It would also make its strongest impression on a wide spectrum of Indian viewers at this time. Remember, it ends by depicting a JDAM Scenario (Paki nuke smuggled into an Indian city by a jihadi terrorist)... a threat that many Indians beyond our nationalistic and military-enthusiast circles need to be made aware of. I don't know what deity we can thank, that the 11 LeT pigs who attacked Mumbai did not have one of those. If we learned nothing else from this attack, it is vital to recognize that the next fedayeen mission could very easily be nuclear-armed.

So,a general request to ALL of you. Please click on this link and watch the movie. Rate it highly. Post your comments, especially, on the comments section... which is also important for other Indians to see. Maybe we will shake up a significant number of Dil-Chahta-Hai desis from the stupor of Indo-Paki-bhai-bhai naivete with which the MSM relentlessly smothers them. That's really what I made the movie for, after all. Please click away:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wciSG_3-x28

Thanks! And if you haven't seen it before, enjoy.

[Sanjay]

Ramana, may I add one very important recommendation - arm the cops !

Why does the average cop not carry a sidearm - even 0.32 pistols would have offered some chance of a response.

In addition all weapons currently in police service need to be checked for serviceability. Remember when Ribero took charge of the Punjab police, 20% of the 0.303s were incapable of firing a single shot. The story of RPF constable M.L. Chaudhary is poignant - he returns fire but his rifle refuses to work after 2 shots.

This is unacceptable. Even if he has a 0.303, if it works properly, the constable has some means to respond.

[Rahul M]

Moderators, begging your indulgence here.

All fellow BR-ites, I haven't once spammed BR with a link to my "Photochor" movie (since the time I first released it in 2005)..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wciSG_3-x28

Thanks! And if you haven't seen it before, enjoy.

Rudradev, this one is already a part of BR-lore and yes we could do with popularising it even more.

if it is not too much of an ask, could you manage another on the elites like rahul bose who think their cup of coffee is more important than the life of the man on the street.

Rahul bose on CNN-IBN :
"if we have to forego some freedom in order for the state to be secure it would be better not to have a state at all" or something to that effect.

thanks.

[komal]

Comparisons to the Israeli and US responses to terror attacks are misguided. First, the US response, while psychologically fulfilling, was quite muted. The US attacked what it thought were easy targets -- Afghanistan and Iraq. The US pointedly chose to exonerate Pakistan as they feared a tougher fight and didn't want to antagonize PRC nor KSA.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have essentially bankrupted the nation. So dependent is the US on KSA and PRC funds, at times, the US acts as colony of KSA or the PRC. Three times this year, the US Treasury intervened to protect the interests of KSA/PRC investors (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and most recently Citibank)

Israel has not been able to deal with Hezbollah and the last war was at best a stalemate or even defeat for the IDF. That war has also caused great financial stress on Israel -- stress only alleivated by the US.

Launching cruise missles at Karachi (as the US would do) or blowing up houses in Islamabad (as the Israelis would do) is not going to end the terror attacks on India. KSA/PRC aren't going to come to our economic aid.

India needs to respond on the basis of all out war to remove the current Pakistani government, disarm the military, dismemeber the nation and install puppet governments in the remaining 'provinces'. We are talking of tens of thousands of military casualites on our side and possible hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties. In addition, we will face international opposition and possible trade boycotts and economic embargos. There is alway the threat of fifth columnists too.

The Indian leadership perhaps thought this too high a price to pay. However, they probably realize that they have no longer have any choice.

[RajeshA]

The funny reporting going on right now in the media about 'hindu terrorism', "homegrown terror', 'disaffected Indian Muslims', 'usual Indo-Pak blame game', 'no concrete evidence as yet', 'nuclear neighbors', etc. is simply spurred by the State Dept. and its cronies, to intimidate India into not starting something adventurous.

However once India does go to war with Pakistan, the World will go into the 'mixed mode' of caution, criticism on the one hand, but there will also be understanding.

Once the war reaches a stage, where everybody knows that it is going to be decisive, every body would fall behind India, pass a UN Resolution on denuking an unstable State, and managing the aftermath.

So all those in power in India, who are losing their sleep over 'arrey, log kya kahenge' should know, nobody will try actively to really stop us. There may be a few diplomatic voices criticizing an escalation. Not even China is going come to Pakistan's help.

Anyway how much is the world going to react in a 2-3 Week War! The point is at this juncture, we do not need to care about others opinions.

[komal]

I think most nations would support a 4-8 week war with the end result being the dismemberment of Pakistan. The PRC would actually welcome this as it they would have a chance to control some of the remaining entities.

India cannot afford to be an occupying army with the responsibility of feeding Pakistanis. That is probaby a major conumdrum preplexing Indian military planners. Perpahs that can be handed over the Afghans and Persians.

KSA will probably remain mute for 8 weeks. After that, they will probably flex their petrodollar muscle and ask the US to intervene.

Again, I think total war is in the only solution. Surgical strikes, killing ISI officers, etc. will have little long term impact.

[Neshant]

Your response, starting with a moronic one-line sneer, is to propose what GOI "should" do. IOW, emulate Paki terrorism.

Commandos sent out to kill terrorist = terrorism ?

Please make some sense.

Begging/pleading foreign media to accept your case is not going to change anything. Another attack will come and you will be still be convincing away.

I have offered a simple solution (send bounty hunters to wipe out terror mongers and pay them per hit). What is your solution?

{Dear Neshant: I am going to make an appeal to you. I have known your posts on this forum since about 2000? When you were of course much younger, and an enthusiastic participant. Sadly, with growth, instead of maturing you have deteriorated very much in behavior. Please go back and re-read the post where you sneered at another postor who suggested something practical that BRF postors could do with their time, and I slammed your unacceptable behavior. Don't try making the ludicrous excuses you have tried above to slither out of that folly, and don't you dare make statements like "Please make some sense" at me in attempted "smart comebacks" - they just drag you further down and paint you as an incorrigible brat.

Your post above is what I call an "in-ur-face" response. Twenty-five years of experience of having educated over 2000 people of your age group, tells me that there is only one way to deal with that.

"My solution" above should have been to delete your post and issue a formal warning for your gratuitous rudeness to the other postor. Instead I merely pointed out what was wrong. Now I AM issuing that warning. I am flat out of patience with brat behavior on this forum, and don't see the point in making an exception in your case - you are not capable of appreciating that. Straighten out now. It may help you in the future, or it may not, though I do seriously doubt that you are in your present attitude, capable of taking straight advice any more. Thanks - narayanan}

[A_Gupta]

Hit the RAPE class. Make them start paying.

[Nayak]

Bring back POTA/TADA, increase the conviction rate. Let the ROP followers know what will happen if they co-operate with Pakistanis. Lets clean our house first.

For external solutions, set up a sophisticated IED Mfg/training college in Balochistan. Open an unlimited expense account for the consulates in Afghanistan.

Keep the Paki western border simmering.

Sensible solutions, wont cost much.

[Prem]

Army, PAF put on high alert after Indian threats
By HAQ NAWAZ submitted 6 hours 3 minutes ago
ISLAMABAD - Pakistani troops and Air Force have been put on high alert in the face of “escalation” by India on eastern border and the forces deployed on western frontier could also be pulled back, said the top security officials here on Saturday.

In a briefing to media, senior Pakistani officials revealed that the United States and NATO had also been informed about the possible decision by Pakistan to withdraw its troops from western border as India was involved in troops buildup on the eastern border in the wake of Mumbai terrorist attacks.

“The situation is very critical, tension is mounting and next 24 hours are very crucial,” said a senior official desiring not to be named because of the sensitivity of the situation.

He said, “We’re very vigilant. If there is any threat we are ready for that. We are watching the situation and next 24-48 hours are very crucial. The situation will be cleared.”
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... an-threats

[RamaY]

After 100+ pages of postings (Yes. I read each one of them) I could understand this much:

(1) There were more 20+ terrorists at the beginning of this attack but it got reduced to 10 (as per Fox report this evening). Soon it will come down to one terrorist who was caught and it explains the calculus; 1 pakistani > 187 indians.

(2) No one appears to think the local support the terrorists received to be from Muslims of Mumbai. We were told that it is Dawood’s gang, as if they are not Indians or muslims. We were reminded about chota rajans incase if we forget the divine equal-equal theory.

(3) The media found the satellite phones, boats and trawlers the terrorist used and even the pre-marked GPS navigation from Karachi to Mumbai along with the bodies of two (or it five?) coast guard officers. But our lahenga (this is the only word I could found to describe our beloved leader) PM is yet to share with our Pakistani brothers. I really do not understand what is stopping him from sending this evidence to Pakistan when the same is available in Pakistani news channel NDTV.

(4) All the Indian news anal-ysts could see in this attack is the killing of 10-11 non-Indians as if their lives are somehow more precious than remaining 170+ Indian lives.

(5) All the panelists participated in the news analysis past 72 hours were unanimous in demanding more government action but for some reason afraid of naming the names. Perhaps they did not want to give the opposition any reason to drag this politics into this event…

(6) All our home minister could offer in these testing times is the statistics on terror attacks during NDA rule. Perhaps he didn’t think it is his responsibility to count the attacks during his tenure… he left it to a NDA home minister.

(7) We are informed that Yuvaraj is as patriotic and blood thirsty as other BRites are are. And Rajamata as patriotic as any other Indian mother is. It is the home minister and prime minister who were lehangaas, we were told. But Rajamata and yuvaraj have trust in their leadership so no need for the HM or PM to resign.

(8) Let us not blame our honest and intellectual PM. He never claimed to be a political or national leader who is interested in solving India’s problems. He is an economic PM and successfully fgked up Indian economy.

As for some posts here ( I know I am going to ruffle many feathers… but I am not worried because India is a peace loving country and Indians move on from one national crises to another)

(9) ATS’s boss is a martyr after his daring and ultimate sacrifice for this nation and the Mumbai he loves and serves. However, I would like to remind that these same leaders allowed ATS to be misused by the political entities until few days ago. No matter how great and honorable his sacrifice today is, he will be answerable to his failed leadership in Malegaon case. He allocated 90% of his resources on a witch-hunt that cost today’s mayhem. Yes, as the Anti Terrorist Squad head, he is responsible for predicting, identifying and preventing terrorist attacks in Maharashtra.

(10) The wise on BRF remind us to be calm and rationale in these testing times. But we can advocate intellectual and moral genocide against fellow Indians as long as we do not advocate genocide against other Indians (?) in the name of religions. But asking to nuke Pakistan an outside province of Akhand Bharat (because we do not agree with TNT) doesn’t amount to be a genocide, I wonder how….

(11) Some ask us about whereabouts of Bal and Raj Thakares. And the shiv sainiks they lead in Mumbai. I do not understand what these posters want. Are they asking for revenge in Mumbai? I do not know. We should thank Bal and Raj for keeping quite and controlling Shiv Sainiks at this point. Remember, this is “response to terrorism” thread….

That brings me to the billion people question – what should we do now?

A. Send all the Muslims from India to a country they choose to live: But do we want to say that and do that? No – because we also want to be called the most secular nation in the world. We love our Hyderabadi biryani. We cannot live without our khans. Oh my god what will we do without Abdul Kalam and Irphan phatan… So this is not an option.

B. Lets declare war on Pakistan and destroy it: Wait a minute. What do we do after destroying it? Whom should we make the next leader? Musharraf again? What will USA think? What will Britain think – they gave us independence. How can we not take Britain’s permission before we go to war? Do we have enough fighters, tanks, submarines? Lets check with Russians…

C. Let us vote BJP to power in the coming elections: Wait a minute. Are we resigning to the fact that we would elect Modi, who is allegedly behind the Gujarat pogrom? Will he get American Visa? How can we have a PM who cannot to go to America? More over NDA govt allowed Kandhar to happen. So they too are not much different from UPA.

So I recommend we archive all the threads on this topic and move on with our favorite topics on analyzing

Strategy section - Hindu psyche, failure of hindu’s in solving their problems, disunity of hindus etc.

Military section – which fighter is better for India – Grippen/mirage/FA-18 or J-11. Vivek Ahuja and Shankar-ji can keep feeding us on much needed victories against Pakistan and china in their military scenarios.

Economy and Technology sections – we are doing very well there with analysis on how bad our IT people are, and interesting (sadistic) analysis on real estate meltdown.

[enqyoob]

Accurate summary, RamaY, but u forgot one news item. Re:

(7) We are informed that Yuvaraj is as patriotic and blood thirsty as other BRites are are. And Rajamata as patriotic as any other Indian mother is. It is the home minister and prime minister who were lehangaas, we were told. But Rajamata and yuvaraj have trust in their leadership so no need for the HM or PM to resign.

The The Nation is Saved. The Rajkumari has spoken.

[Nayak]

(9) ATS’s boss is a martyr after his daring and ultimate sacrifice for this nation and the Mumbai he loves and serves. However, I would like to remind that these same leaders allowed ATS to be misused by the political entities until few days ago. No matter how great and honorable his sacrifice today is, he will be answerable to his failed leadership in Malegaon case. He allocated 90% of his resources on a witch-hunt that cost today’s mayhem. Yes, as the Anti Terrorist Squad head, he is responsible for predicting, identifying and preventing terrorist attacks in Maharashtra.

Exacto-mundo. I was never a big fan of all the brouhaha raised on the killing of ATS boss.

Most of the cops are corrupt and are ever-ready to rent themselves to the highest bidder.

[Prem]

Accurate summary, RamaY, but u forgot one news item. Re:

(7) We are informed that Yuvaraj is as patriotic and blood thirsty as other BRites are are. And Rajamata as patriotic as any other Indian mother is. It is the home minister and prime minister who were lehangaas, we were told. But Rajamata and yuvaraj have trust in their leadership so no need for the HM or PM to resign.

The The Nation is Saved. The Rajkumari has spoken.

Call her correctly Princess or Pumpkin or Shahjadi .Rajkumari tradition is Dharmic and Indian and against the Secualrism.

[enqyoob]

OK, my terminological inexcusability there. Pumpkin it is.