Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

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RayC
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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RayC » 17 Jul 2009 06:27

This report (accessed by the link given) by Hoodbhoy and Nayyar may help understanding the difference between Islam as practised in Pakistan and the one practised in Turkey and others.

http://www.sacw.net | February 6, 2005

Rewriting the History of Pakistan

by Pervez Amirali Hoodbhoy and Abdul Hameed Nayyar

[Source: Islam, Politics and the State: The Pakistan Experience, Asghar Khan (ed.) Zed Books, London, 1985, pp. 164-177.]

From indoctrination's foul rope
Suspend all reason, all hope
Until with swollen tongue
Morality herself is hung.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby JwalaMukhi » 17 Jul 2009 06:34

http://www.hindu.com/2008/04/03/stories ... 831000.htm
What those urging China to negotiate with the Dalai Lama fail to recognise is the fact that Beijing’s main constituency is not the international community but its own domestic public. For Beijing to appear ‘soft’ on the Dalai Lama would be as politically unpalatable domestically asit would be in the United States were Washington to decide to engage in dialogue with Osama bin Laden.
The majority of Chinese have little awareness that there is a Tibet problem at all. Although a relatively high-profile issue abroad, thanks in part to the efforts of Hollywood, within China Tibet is usually far less prominent in the consciousness of the average Chinese

Well, the She-Einstien has compulsive behaviour of getting her chaddi in knots. The eagerness to wolship the comlades always elicits the baring of cranial capacity. So, chinese are not aware of tibet, but CCP is playing to the domestic constituency. Go figure...
From the link of
By the way, the equation from she-einstien's has been expanded to look from earlier version of
OBL = Dalai Lama to
OBL = Dalailama = Rebiya Kadeer. (upgraded and expanded version), the new She-einstien's ground breaking results.

Beijing seeks, as usual, to blame the riots on so called 'outside instigators' like Rebiya Kadeer. As with the Dalai Lama [ Images ], Kadeer is deemed a separatist and terrorist

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby enqyoob » 17 Jul 2009 06:38

She has been "The Hindu"'s Beijing Correspondent

And predictably, the point of the article is the swift and efficient and FAIR, UNBIASED action of the Commie Xylons, who rushed in AHEAD of the Han mobs.

If you looked carefully at the pictures I posted, of the Xylons standing around while Han mobsters armed with knife-tipped sticks slipped coolly between them and ambled off to find Uighur victims, you will know all about this Fair, Unbiased response.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RayC » 17 Jul 2009 07:02

Image
AP Photo/Ng Han Guan
Han Chinese break through a police line as
they attempt to attack Uighur areas in
Urumqi on July 7, 2009.

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/Asi ... sions.html

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby enqyoob » 17 Jul 2009 07:44

Thanks, RayC that image is so much more dramatic in illustrating the bias. Do those rioters look in the least worried, let alone terrified, by the camo-clad troops? The troops are not even looking at the ones slipping through, and these guy are grinning from ear to ear as they run through the "wall of steel".

Now if those were Uighurs they would have been beaten silly.

The relationship between the Han mobs and the PRC govt troops is the same as that between the Iranian vigilante death squads and the Iranian govt.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RayC » 17 Jul 2009 08:00

Aiyar's fascination with China is obvious in the article.

She claims that "Rioting by Uighurs leads to retaliatory rampages by Han. Han and Uighur neighbours, who have lived for years in peace, suddenly look at each other with suspicion. Friends turn murderers; colleagues become one with faceless blood-baying mobs".

She forget that if there were only 6% Han Chinese population, the Hans did not have the option to do anything otherwise but live peacefully. The gradual increase of the Han Chinese population gave them (Hans) courage to take on the Uighurs. The riots occured in Urumqi and the Han Chinese are in the majority there. Majority of the Uighurs are blue collar worker, while the majority of Hans are white collar workers and bosses. It is obvious that the blue collar workers are more expressive than white collar professionals.

The issue of 'Encouraged by Beijing's [ Images ] 'develop the west' programme, which seeks to duplicate the economic success of the wealthier coastal areas, Xinjiang's Han population has jumped from 6 per cent in 1949 to more than 40 per cent in 2000' is interesting. She attempts to indicate that the Chinese were only being fair to bring parity in 'develop the west' with the eastern coastal area.'

She is parroting the typical Chinese propaganda wherein they cloak the truth with platitudes. If the Chinese were so fair and wanted to bring 'prosperity' to the Western parts of China and be fair, how come Ms Aiyar forgets to mention that such prosperity was not visited by the Chinese in Xihaigu Prefecture in northwest China's Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, one of the eight poorest areas in China, or Guangxi, Guizhou and Yunan? The answer is not so hard to find. One, they do not have such rich resources as Xinjiang and two, they have been assimilated and changed into Hans, which the Tibetans and Uighurs have been resisting historically. Xinjiang was a God given opportunity to the Chinese govt. It ensured that the Han Chinese were attracted by the gains they would make financially (they avoided Xinjiang before) and at the same time change the demography and thus when overwhelmingly Han Chinese, the Uighurs would get assimilated into the Han culture as the Hans have done everywhere else where there were other communities in majority.

She writes, "Unlike what happened in Gujarat in 2002, for example, the State did not stand by idly or actively encourage the Han as they marched through the streets with bricks and iron rods, looking for Uighur victims. Instead, the government flooded the region with troops and clamped down on the mob regardless of ethnicity."

She conveniently forgets that the police fired more than 4,000 rounds in the first three days alone. As many as 98 people were shot dead by the police, majority of whom are Hindus. For the complete period of rioting, despite the presence of the Army, the police fired as many 15,000 tear gas shells, and a total of 10,500 rounds and 200 policemen laid their lives trying to quell the violence during the riots. Therefore, to state that the Gujarat police just stood idle is not correct.

The indignation that the western media showed towards Gujarat and is comparitively silent over Xinjiang is because, unlike China, India does not have the financial and political clout, nor has India's million been financing the US.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RayC » 17 Jul 2009 16:56

A tale of two Kashmirs


S Gurumurthy
First Published : 15 Jul 2009 11:55:00 PM IST
Last Updated : 15 Jul 2009 12:55:27 AM IST

That China too has its Kashmir and problems with Islamist separatists identical to India’s Kashmir is not widely known. ‘Xinjiang’, actually pronounced as ‘Sinkiang’ for postal purposes, is China’s Kashmir. Xinjiang actually shares borders with Ladakh in India’s Kashmir. But unlike Kashmir it is not a small area. Its size is 1.8 million sq km; almost one-sixth of China; half as much as India. India’s Kashmir measures some 2,65,000 sq km. Of which some 86,000 sq km is under Pakistan; some 37,500 sq km under China; the balance, 1,41,000 sq km, is with India. The disputed part of India’s Kashmir, some 1,45,000 sq km, is less than one hundredth of Xinjiang. So China’s Kashmir is physically 100 times bigger than India’s and therefore its problem too is bigger. Yet many do not know about it.

The reason is that China prevented Xinjiang, its Kashmir, from becoming an international issue like India’s Kashmir. Xinjiang, which had a majority of Turkish Muslims (Uighurs) in 1949, had a short-lived state of East Turkestan. China invaded it, crushed it, and won back its territory. The name Xinjiang literally means ‘old frontier returns to China’. See the contrast. A year earlier, in 1948, India almost won back most of Kashmir from Pakistan which had invaded it, but voluntarily offered and turned it into an international issue. It was India, not Pakistan, which went to the United Nations; made it an international issue. It is struggling to say it is a bilateral one. Now, on to how China handled Xinjiang, its Kashmir, and integrated it with mainland China.

Xinjiang has a population of 20 million plus. The Uighur Muslims constitute 45 per cent, other Muslims 12 per cent and the Han Chinese 41 per cent. What was the Han population in Xinjiang in 1949? Just six per cent. In six decades it has risen by seven times. This change did not occur by itself. China did not just trust army or administrative control of its territory in Xinjiang. It trusted only its people. It ensured that the Han Chinese slowly began populating Xinjiang. The result is self-evident. But the 41 per cent Han Chinese population does not include defence personnel and families, and unregistered migrant Chinese workers.

Xinjiang was once known for a variety of agricultural products, but now, for more. Its GDP rose from $28 billion in 2004 to $60 billion in 2008. Its per capita GDP (2008) is $2,864, almost the same as the national average. It has large deposits of minerals and oil. The oil and gas extraction industry in Xinjiang is booming; it has a pipeline to Shanghai. This sector accounts for 60 per cent of Xinjiang’s economy. With a vast area, huge resources, and sparse population, Xinjiang benefits China more than the other way round. In contrast the economic cost of India’s Kashmir is very high. It receives a per capita Central grant of Rs 8,092, while for other Indian states it is Rs 1,137. If the grant were given directly by money order each Kashmir family of five would receive Rs 40,460 every year.

<snip>There is violence and terror in Xinjiang like in Kashmir but not on that scale thanks to Pakistan’s ISI being friendly to China as common cause against India. The Uighurs are therefore not getting any support from Pakistan.

<snip>

President Hu Jintao, who was to attend the G8 meeting, flew back in a tacit admission of the depth of the crisis. His government declared war on ‘three forces’, namely — ‘separatism, extremism and terrorism’. It banned Friday prayers in Urumqi mosques and told the Muslims to pray from their homes, something no other country would or could do. China has also pointed to al-Qaeda as inspiration for the trouble.

Yes, China does have problems with Islamist separatists, extremists and terrorists. But it has, by diplomacy and action, ensured that it remains an internal problem, unlike India, which has on its own made Kashmir an international issue. China has also changed the religious and political demography of Xinjiang by ensuring that 41 per cent of the province’s population is non-Muslim.

Instead of working to change the demography in favour of India as China has done, the Indian government could not even prevent the expulsion of Hindus from the Valley. While Xinjiang is half filled by Han Chinese, Kashmir has been cleansed of Hindus. The result is that India has to defend Kashmir with the army instead of the people.

Had India followed the policy the Chinese adopted in Xinjiang, conquering Kashmir back instead of contracting under Article 370, which prevents Indians in other places from migrating to the Valley, today Kashmir would have demographically integrated with India. We would be dealing with internal riots occasionally like China does; but we would not face or fight wars with Pakistan and with terrorists every day.

The lesson for India is: demography — religious demographic balance that is in tune with the national mainstream — is the guarantee for the nation, more so at the borders. China gradually brought Xinjiang, its Kashmir, into the national mainstream through the Han Chinese. But India constitutionally contracted to keep its Kashmir out of the mainstream; it even cleansed it of the mainstream by making the Hindus refugees in their own nation. What a contrast!

QED: Augustus Comte, the 19th century French philosopher, said, “demography is destiny”.

Two Kashmirs



S Gurumurthy is a well-known commentator on political and economic issues

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby enqyoob » 17 Jul 2009 17:04

S. Gurumoorthy is also an Einstein.

That China too has its Kashmir and problems with Islamist separatists identical to India’s Kashmir is not widely known. ‘Xinjiang’, actually pronounced as ‘Sinkiang’ for postal purposes, is China’s Kashmir.


Frigging (Einstein)!

1. China INVADED Xinjiang. They did not send their army there to protect Xinjiang residents from being raped and thrown into sawmills, unlike what happened in Kashmir.

2. India has Article 370, and has NOT changed the demographics of J&K. The Pakis did that, by driving all Hindus and most Christians and Buddhists out of Kashmir.

If this is the quality of Mainstream News Analysis in India (and Gurumoorthy is considered the ultimate Hindoo Media Champion South of Daily Pioneer!!!) , it proves again why

BENIS Saranam Gatchaami :roll: :roll:

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RajeshA » 17 Jul 2009 17:17

The comment I posted on Mr. Gurumurthy's article:

Raj wrote:What a stupid post. Why the hell is Mr Gurumurthy comparing the two. 1. Kashmir has been an integral part of the Indian Civilization, and was incorporated into India post Independence as per norm and rules. Xinjiang or East Turkestan has been taken over by PRC by force. The people living there have no ethnic relationship to the Han Chinese. 2. Kashmir has had years of democratic local governments, while there is no such thing as democracy in whole of China. 3. Kashmir has hardly seen any migration from outside, whereas in Xinjiang the Han Chinese would soon become a majority. So let us not compare the two


Got the first comment slot for my post :mrgreen: and then came the brickbats from the subsequent posters!

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RayC » 17 Jul 2009 17:36

So it was you?

:D

I like the gentleman's logic i.e. Gurumurthy - way out!

I take it that he has a one point issue - revoke 370 and all will be well! ;)

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby shravan » 17 Jul 2009 17:40

RajeshA wrote:Got the first comment slot for my post :mrgreen: and then came the brickbats from the subsequent posters!


:rotfl: Good Job... :rotfl:

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby enqyoob » 18 Jul 2009 01:43

Why Indians admire the PRC Xylons

I too would have liked to see pictures of Kolkotta streets filled with columns of armor-clad Indian police, beating the pakistan out of both the CPI(M) and the Congress-I goons for destroying public property, then shipping them to NEFA to break rocks and build roads in a chain gang for the next 8 years, then be shipped to the Andamans to build some good tourist resort facilities there.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby ramana » 18 Jul 2009 02:45

I thought it was the British colonials who did that to our people. :eek:

Getting Independence was to ensure that stuff doesnt happen again. For the uninformed please see the Jewel in the Crown. made by BBC.


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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Hiten » 18 Jul 2009 15:09


Washington is Playing a Deeper Game with China

No wonder this article is being re-posted by so many pakistani bloggers - gives their silence that much needed semblance of justification, however poor it might be :D

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby enqyoob » 18 Jul 2009 17:29

Awesome site. Example:
Western Media Fabrications regarding the Tibet Riots
- by Michel Chossudovsky - 2008-04-16
CNN's report focussed on the Tibet protests in Gansu province and in the Tibetan capital Lhasa. What was shown, however, was a videotape of the Tibet protest movement in India.
:mrgreen:

We need one like this for BENIS.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RayC » 18 Jul 2009 18:34

narayanan wrote:Why Indians admire the PRC Xylons

I too would have liked to see pictures of Kolkotta streets filled with columns of armor-clad Indian police, beating the pakistan out of both the CPI(M) and the Congress-I goons for destroying public property, then shipping them to NEFA to break rocks and build roads in a chain gang for the next 8 years, then be shipped to the Andamans to build some good tourist resort facilities there.


When are you starting the show.


Count me on!

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby svinayak » 18 Jul 2009 22:35

Image

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RamaY » 20 Jul 2009 21:33

Any idea what is happening in this area?

Can't find any news updates on this issue, except for some retrospective commentaries. Does it mean PRC addressed this issue for the time being?

Would be interesting to track the reactions of Turkey, Ummah, and Al-keeda on this in the coming months and years.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Gerard » 22 Jul 2009 01:08

http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellan ... ip0709.pdf

"And, we tell the Chinese people: however much you increase your injustice, oppression, and murder of our Muslim brothers, and develop your methods of torture, and become creative in torturing our brothers, do not [ever] believe you will enslave them, and the proud people of Turkistan will have men and women rise, and will [be] in all of their country and will make you [Chinese] taste [the] bitterness, as the spare-time for the bomb that has been engineered against
you, has finished."

"O Mujahideen heroes; O young men of East Turkistan, rise in the name of Allah to protect your Muslim people, and kill the Communist Chinese people wherever you find them, and take them into account, and attack them from every single angle. As, Allah, raised and glorified, said: 'and, Allah will support those [who] support His cause.'"

"And, I call upon our Turkistani brothers to come back to their religion and hold the [Holy] Book of Allah and the Sunna of His prophet, Allah's peace and prayer upon him, and to repent from the deviational beliefs, confusing thoughts, and every word and deed that goes against our Haneef faith. And, come seek the mercy of Allah, do not seek help except from Him, and get closer to Him by carrying out the obligations you could, and leave-back the prohibitions however much Satan artistically beautifies them, and make all your effort to glorify the religion of Allah."

"Remember the words of Allah: 'Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: 'We believe,' and will not be tested.'"

"We ask Allah to torture all of our enemies, and especially the Chinese people, with a slaying of His, or with our hands, and to keep us steadfast on what he loves and graces in Jihad for His cause, and to take revenge from His enemies, Amen."

"And lastly I say, the Prophet [Muhammad], Allah's prayer and peace upon him; [as] he is the most honest and believed, said that there is no wall between Allah and the prayer of an unjustly treated person, so may we all direct [ourselves] to Allah the [glorious] Listener and Watcher and may we pray for Him, and may we press Him [in Prayer] night and day to give us relief from the narrowness we are in, and to be kind on us with solidity in our land so we can establish the Sharia of Allah in His land, and release His [obedient] servants from the injustice and oppression of [the] Kuffar."

"In conclusion, we ask Allah to forgive our brothers and sisters who were killed in this massacre, and to have them in the widest of His heavens, He is the Most capable."

Peace be upon you
Military Commander: Saif-Allah

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby enqyoob » 22 Jul 2009 01:59

to have them in the widest of His heavens

Hmmm!! This no doubt calls for deep (and narrow) analysis in BENIS. There have been few papers dealing with the topology of Houristan so far in the LMU library.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RayC » 23 Jul 2009 19:57

Nothing from the GOI?

What is the latest?

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Lalmohan » 24 Jul 2009 02:33

am begining to suspect that the flareup in east turkestan is a vehicle to get china to get off the fence and take sides in the war on terror

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby R Vaidya » 24 Jul 2009 13:32

China’s migraine is India’s K -Valley balm--New Indian express

R Vaidyanathan
First Published : 18 Jul 2009 04:01:00 AM IST

FORMER US Secretary of State Madeline Albright correctly called Pakistan as the international migraine. But she did that recently much after her official tenure. She was not wrong in calling Pakistan by that name, except she was very late. These are the ‘war’ veterans, namely ‘wise after retirement’.
Now China is having its migraine in the form of its Xinjiang (Uyghur) autonomous province where over 150 deaths have been reported in violence.
The issue is the conflict between Uyghurs who are followers of some sort of Sufi Islam _ but getting radicalised _ and the Hun Chinese. The area in the western part of China is rich in minerals and oil and China is setting up large factories there. The original population proportion in the fifties _ of 70 to 30 in favor of Uyghur _ has changed to 30 to 70 recently due to the encouragement given by the Chinese politburo to Hun Chinese to move in to this province.
There are very many smaller ethnic groupings in that province but there is resentment against Hun Chinese as they are perceived to be dominating.
The Uyghur was originally with the East Turkistan province and it was merged with China after the revolution.
Actually, there was supposed to have been a meeting of East Turkistan leaders and Mao but the plane they travelled to Beijing met with an accident and the leaders perished. Anyhow China integrated the province after some local Uyghur leaders warmly welcomed it. Of course, China was happy to consider it as a autonomous province as long as it was as per the Chinese idea of autonomy. During the last few years, the resentment among the Uyghurs was coming into the open and, of course, encouraged by the US _ as part of its China Containment policy _ they have also started to talk about East Turkistan. Chinese have been dealing with any dissidence in its provinces like Tibet by hitting them hard, hitting them longer and hitting them stronger.
China is not sophisticated in dealing with its restive provinces. Just send the Army and hit the splitters or terrorists as they are called. Uyghur issue is variously described as ethnic and also as radical Islam in conflict with Communist China. Pakistan, which prides itself as the beacon light of global Islam, has been very prompt in handing over Uyghur leaders to China which has promptly executed them. The same Pakistan is so reluctant to deal with terrorists who ravaged Mumbai from its soil! Now the jeans-clad jihadis in Kashmir Valley _ also originally talked about ethnic upraising encompassing all communities but very soon it has become the hot bed of radical Islam. Uyghur could become radicalised and then it will be war between radical Islam and Communist china. History repeats. When Hitler invaded Russia, Fascism met with Stalinism.
West got saved. Let it be noted that the future of India as a civilisation is dependent on the war between radical Islam and Mao’s China.
This will be encouraged by the US similar to jihadis trained and funded by the US against Russia. The local left in India (which is currently only active in JNU canteen) will suddenly find lots of problems with radical Islam _ the same way the imperialist war became people’s war after Hitler attacked Russia.
Pakistan Army will be caught between “eternal friend” and “loyalty to Ummah”. The result of the Uyghur upraising is going to be drastic on China’s views on Kashmir Valley.
It will also have drastic impact on our local red. India should play a double game. It should encourage Uygurs and also resettle large number of peasants from UP and Bihar in to Kashmir Valley, following the illustrious example of China. India should form a grouping with Turkey and all the Central Asian countries _ ending with -stan _ and encourage East Turkistan and its Sufi Islam. In the north of China India should try to foment problems through Mongolia. So China will have splitters in the South (Tibet) and West (Uyghurs) and the North (Mongols).
The graver the situation in Xingkiang the better for India unless the US tries to bring all Taliban together and hand over Pakistan to them to contain China. It is important to note that the US adopts a use-and-throw attitude to other countries.
Not like condoms more like toilet papers since the former is treated well before use but the latter is treated badly both before and after use. It is not going to be worried if Taliban rules Pakistan or Afghanistan as long as the US is not having any terror attacks.
In any case, Pakistan as we know today will not be there in the next few years since it is going to a ‘mridangam’ situation of getting hit on both sides by China and the US-supported good Taliban (or bad Taliban). When Pakistan disappears as it exists today, then the jean-clad jihadis in K-Valley will suddenly find that keeping jeans is more important than szadi. The only negative possibility for India is a deal by which the US tries to hand over Pakistan along with K-Valley to good Taliban.
But in such a situation we can always join with China to hit hard hit long and hit strong the splitters. Any which way the Chinese migraine is balm to our Valley.
The author is Professor of Finance, Indian Institute of Management- Bangalore, and can be contacted at vaidya@iimb.ernet.in <mailto:vaidya@iimb.ernet.in>. The views are personal and do not reflect that of his organisation.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby ramana » 24 Jul 2009 23:10

R. Vaidya, thanks for thie article. Its the first articulation of Indian interests in the Uigher uprising and its potential fallout that I have seen. Thanks once again.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Gerard » 27 Jul 2009 00:07

Delhi shuts out Uighur matriarch
India has denied a visa to Rebiya Kadeer, the Uighur matriarch exiled by China, on the advice of Beijing which accuses the 62-year-old of inciting the recent violence in Xinjiang.
Government sources said Beijing was worried that she might meet the Dalai Lama in India. “We have an understanding with the Chinese government that we will not allow Indian soil to be used for political activities against China,” a senior official said.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Raj Malhotra » 27 Jul 2009 10:48

R Vaidya wrote:China’s migraine is India’s K -Valley balm--New Indian express

R Vaidyanathan
First Published : 18 Jul 2009 04:01:00 AM IST

FORMER US Secretary of State Madeline Albright correctly called Pakistan as the international migraine. But she did that recently much after her official tenure. She was not wrong in calling Pakistan by that name, except she was very late. These are the ‘war’ veterans, namely ‘wise after retirement’.
Now China is having its migraine in the form of its Xinjiang (Uyghur) autonomous province where over 150 deaths have been reported in violence.
The issue is the conflict between Uyghurs who are followers of some sort of Sufi Islam _ but getting radicalised _ and the Hun Chinese. The area in the western part of China is rich in minerals and oil and China is setting up large factories there. The original population proportion in the fifties _ of 70 to 30 in favor of Uyghur _ has changed to 30 to 70 recently due to the encouragement given by the Chinese politburo to Hun Chinese to move in to this province.
There are very many smaller ethnic groupings in that province but there is resentment against Hun Chinese as they are perceived to be dominating.
The Uyghur was originally with the East Turkistan province and it was merged with China after the revolution.
Actually, there was supposed to have been a meeting of East Turkistan leaders and Mao but the plane they travelled to Beijing met with an accident and the leaders perished. Anyhow China integrated the province after some local Uyghur leaders warmly welcomed it. Of course, China was happy to consider it as a autonomous province as long as it was as per the Chinese idea of autonomy. During the last few years, the resentment among the Uyghurs was coming into the open and, of course, encouraged by the US _ as part of its China Containment policy _ they have also started to talk about East Turkistan. Chinese have been dealing with any dissidence in its provinces like Tibet by hitting them hard, hitting them longer and hitting them stronger.
China is not sophisticated in dealing with its restive provinces. Just send the Army and hit the splitters or terrorists as they are called. Uyghur issue is variously described as ethnic and also as radical Islam in conflict with Communist China. Pakistan, which prides itself as the beacon light of global Islam, has been very prompt in handing over Uyghur leaders to China which has promptly executed them. The same Pakistan is so reluctant to deal with terrorists who ravaged Mumbai from its soil! Now the jeans-clad jihadis in Kashmir Valley _ also originally talked about ethnic upraising encompassing all communities but very soon it has become the hot bed of radical Islam. Uyghur could become radicalised and then it will be war between radical Islam and Communist china. History repeats. When Hitler invaded Russia, Fascism met with Stalinism.
West got saved. Let it be noted that the future of India as a civilisation is dependent on the war between radical Islam and Mao’s China.
This will be encouraged by the US similar to jihadis trained and funded by the US against Russia. The local left in India (which is currently only active in JNU canteen) will suddenly find lots of problems with radical Islam _ the same way the imperialist war became people’s war after Hitler attacked Russia.
Pakistan Army will be caught between “eternal friend” and “loyalty to Ummah”. The result of the Uyghur upraising is going to be drastic on China’s views on Kashmir Valley.
It will also have drastic impact on our local red. India should play a double game. It should encourage Uygurs and also resettle large number of peasants from UP and Bihar in to Kashmir Valley, following the illustrious example of China. India should form a grouping with Turkey and all the Central Asian countries _ ending with -stan _ and encourage East Turkistan and its Sufi Islam. In the north of China India should try to foment problems through Mongolia. So China will have splitters in the South (Tibet) and West (Uyghurs) and the North (Mongols).
The graver the situation in Xingkiang the better for India unless the US tries to bring all Taliban together and hand over Pakistan to them to contain China. It is important to note that the US adopts a use-and-throw attitude to other countries.
Not like condoms more like toilet papers since the former is treated well before use but the latter is treated badly both before and after use. It is not going to be worried if Taliban rules Pakistan or Afghanistan as long as the US is not having any terror attacks.
In any case, Pakistan as we know today will not be there in the next few years since it is going to a ‘mridangam’ situation of getting hit on both sides by China and the US-supported good Taliban (or bad Taliban). When Pakistan disappears as it exists today, then the jean-clad jihadis in K-Valley will suddenly find that keeping jeans is more important than szadi. The only negative possibility for India is a deal by which the US tries to hand over Pakistan along with K-Valley to good Taliban.
But in such a situation we can always join with China to hit hard hit long and hit strong the splitters. Any which way the Chinese migraine is balm to our Valley.
The author is Professor of Finance, Indian Institute of Management- Bangalore, and can be contacted at vaidya@iimb.ernet.in <mailto:vaidya@iimb.ernet.in>. The views are personal and do not reflect that of his organisation.


While all this happening, wonder what China will be doing to India's north east, J&K and Naxalite affected areas.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RajeshA » 27 Jul 2009 12:15

Gerard wrote:Delhi shuts out Uighur matriarch
India has denied a visa to Rebiya Kadeer, the Uighur matriarch exiled by China, on the advice of Beijing which accuses the 62-year-old of inciting the recent violence in Xinjiang.
Government sources said Beijing was worried that she might meet the Dalai Lama in India. “We have an understanding with the Chinese government that we will not allow Indian soil to be used for political activities against China,” a senior official said.


On the one hand it is an interesting development, on the other India should be very careful.

Some known justified assumptions are that Rebiya Kadeer is an American supported color-revolutionist. Let's thank n³ for highlighting this point. She has been granted visa to come to Turkey. There are already many Uyghurs in Turkey, and many possibly see Turkey as the strongest pillar of the Pan-Türkic 'Civilization'. From the reactions of Turks, it became quite clear that they also see East Turkestan as belonging 'in its sphere of civilizational influence', and is ready to assume the role of its guardian. If Rebiya Kadeer builds up her resistance to PRC's occupation of East Turkestan in Turkey, Turkey could indeed become the mainstay of Uyghur Resistance.

There are similarities to India. India is the main pillar of the Indic Civilization, and Tibet is part and parcel of it. Even though India has not opted to become antagonistic to PRC, it cannot be denied that Tibetans have found a home in India, and many of those who favor independence from PRC live in India. At the moment all Tibetans consider Dalai Lama to be their head.

East Turkestan and Tibet together constitute about a third of PRC landmass. If the Uyghurs and the Tibetans join forces, then West China can indeed become a very big headache for PRC indeed.

So it becomes all the more important that these two nations join forces. Turkey, the home-in-exile of the Uyghurs and India, the home-in-exile of the Tibetans, share similar responsibilities, however there are differences. The Uyghur movement is only now gaining some prominence. The Tibetan movement is long acknowledged. Whereas Turkey can afford to antagonize PRC, as it is far away from PRC's reach, India cannot - we are neighbors. As such India and Turkey will have to go differently about their responsibilities.

It is in India's interest that Uyghurs and Tibetans wage a joint struggle for independence. Such cooperation would allow the Tibetans to source their weapons from the Uyghurs, who again would be sourcing them from the AfPak region or former Soviet Union region. Such an arrangement would allow India to keep a safe distance from the secessionist activities in PRC, but still allow support to the Tibetans in other forms in the future.

Both the movements still have to capture the imagination of the world. Until that time, or until India can ensure that it has more than a credible deterrence against PRC, it would be wise to keep a safe distance from PRC and to keep it in good humor. After that the dynamics can change.

It is okay if Rebiya Kadeer and Dalai Lama have their first meeting somewhere else. It was okay for India to reject Rebiya Kadeer's visa application.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Avinash R » 27 Jul 2009 13:14

Raj Malhotra wrote:While all this happening, wonder what China will be doing to India's north east, J&K and Naxalite affected areas.

Well chinese currently supports maoists atleast ideologically, terror groups like LeT from international sanctions and in the past groups like NSCN. They are already at their max of "hurt india" campaign and there is no possiblity of further increase in this.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Omar » 28 Aug 2009 09:15

China's Western Front

The creation of SARs in Xinjiang and Tibet would not just be in the interest of local populations; the Communist Party leadership would also benefit. Beijing would retain control over foreign affairs and defense and keep the right to station military forces in the regions. Even more important, the law establishing the SARs dictates that the "land and natural resources within the [SAR] shall be state property." This ensures that the rich supply of resources in the western regions would remain under Beijing's authority.

To further assuage Beijing's doubts, the SARs in Xinjiang and Tibet would not need to be as autonomous as those in Hong Kong and Macau, which have separate political systems with their own partially direct elections. Such a concession would not be required in Xinjiang, where the population has never experienced elections, nor in Tibet, where the population would simply like to replace an unpopular unelected official with a popular one: the Dalai Lama.

Such an arrangement would remove another thorn in Beijing's side -- the international attention and opprobrium created by the Dalai Lama's ongoing exile. The Dalai Lama would likely accept such a solution; the SAR closely resembles his own "middle way" negotiating position, which cedes the claim to full Tibetan independence and instead calls for "genuine autonomy." In any future Tibetan SAR, the Dalai Lama would likely be less of a problem for Beijing in the region than outside of it.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby sanjaykumar » 28 Aug 2009 09:38

East Turkestan and Tibet together constitute about a third of PRC landmass. If the Uyghurs and the Tibetans join forces, then West China can indeed become a very big headache for PRC indeed.



Don't go by China's autonomous regions on its maps. Mongolia, Turkestan and Tibet constitute 2/3 of its land mass.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby SSridhar » 05 Sep 2009 18:41

Five more die in renewed unrest in Xinjiang
Officials said late on Friday five people were killed in Friday's protests, but they did not say how the deaths occurred. Urumqi's vice mayor Zhang Hong said two of those killed were "innocent" and 14 others were injured, but did not reveal any further information.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Airavat » 08 Mar 2010 14:39

Uighur refugees deported back to China

A few days before Christmas, Cambodia hastily deported 20 ethnic Uighur asylum-seekers back to China over the strong objections of Western nations. Two days later, Beijing followed through on a planned $1.2 billion infrastructure investment in Cambodia, one of Southeast Asia's most impoverished nations.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Airavat » 30 Oct 2010 10:14

Turkish FM in East Turkestan
Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu met on Thursday Nur Bekri, China appointed-chairman of the Uyghur Autonomous Region which Uighurs call "East Turkestan", within the scope of his visit to China. The communist China changed name of East Turkestan and named it Xinjiang in 1955.

Turkish foreign minister said, "we attach importance to improvement of relations with China and 'Xinjiang' region in cultural means," and proposed Bursa and Urumqi to be sister cities and Konya and Kasghar to be sister cities. East Turkestan, that has 8 million Uighurs, borders Russia, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, has abundant oil reserves and is largest natural gas-producing region controlled by China.

Turkish FM hopes to pacify Uighur separatism
“We are starting the China trip with Kashgar, which is one of the most important cultural centers of the Turkic world,” Davutoğlu told a group of journalists. “The growing Turkish-Chinese relationship will put our Uighur Turk kinsmen at ease.”

The tomb of Mahmud Kashgari was one of Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu’s first stops in a region that experienced ethnic unrest in 2009. Uighur Turks make up the majority of Kashgar’s population of approximately 350,000 people.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Raja Ram » 30 Oct 2010 10:43

Years ago, in Hong Kong, Central Library, I chanced upon two small books - The Chinese Dragon & China Strikes (IIRC). It was written by a remarkable Indian Satyanarayan Sinha, one of the first Indian MPs to raise the alarm in Indian parliament. A revolutionary, who was drawn to communism, and went to Italy at the age of 14 or so, to join the communists and partisans there, later went to Moscow, came to know the communist plans for India and became a life long adversary to communism.

He travelled over land through Sinkiang and entered India, and was familiar with the early uprisings and the brutal repression unleashed by Mao there. He knew the Uyghurs well. Made friends with them and promised to tell their story to the world.

Post independence, he was a member of parliament. He protested against the government's lack of preparedness and then resigned. The two small books published by Oxford University Press if I remember correctly, details his travels, and talks of the Chinese perfidy and his account of the war. It clearly traced the completely different ethnicity of the Uyghurs and also talked of how the Uyghurs reached out to India for help at the same tibet was getting over run.

The issue is not just based on Islamic identity, it may well have become the case now, but the earlier uprisings were based on the sense of nationality and ethnic differences to china and a fierce determination to be assert and be free from any foreign occupation. The 1950s were different, they were in between two communist empires that had not yet fully fallen out. They resisted as much as they could. But no one heard them. They did not lack leaders, all of them were captured and killed in public.

The latest uprising may be based on the call of the religion or the present population is clutching at whatever is coming up as a resistance point to keep their hopes of being free one day. It appears to me that there is more to just the call of Islam to the quest of the Uyghurs. It is as much about their ethnicity, their culture and their nation. Like Tibetans.

More recently, Jaswant Singh's book called Journey through Trans Oxania, I believe, briefly touches upon the Uyghurs, I have not read that book.

I have never been able to find those books again in any shop. Maybe it is not in print anymore. If anyone is there in Hong Kong, they can check for these books in the Central Library.

Just thought I would share this perspective here. FWIW

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RajeshA » 30 Oct 2010 12:17

Airavat wrote:Turkish FM in East Turkestan
Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu met on Thursday Nur Bekri, China appointed-chairman of the Uyghur Autonomous Region which Uighurs call "East Turkestan", within the scope of his visit to China. The communist China changed name of East Turkestan and named it Xinjiang in 1955.

Turkish foreign minister said, "we attach importance to improvement of relations with China and 'Xinjiang' region in cultural means," and proposed Bursa and Urumqi to be sister cities and Konya and Kasghar to be sister cities. East Turkestan, that has 8 million Uighurs, borders Russia, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, has abundant oil reserves and is largest natural gas-producing region controlled by China.

Turkish FM hopes to pacify Uighur separatism
“We are starting the China trip with Kashgar, which is one of the most important cultural centers of the Turkic world,” Davutoğlu told a group of journalists. “The growing Turkish-Chinese relationship will put our Uighur Turk kinsmen at ease.”

The tomb of Mahmud Kashgari was one of Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu’s first stops in a region that experienced ethnic unrest in 2009. Uighur Turks make up the majority of Kashgar’s population of approximately 350,000 people.


That is a potential opening for the Kemalists.

By sending a Turkish flotilla to Gaza to break the Gaza embargo, the Islamists (AKP) in Turkey provoked a rift between secular Turkish military and Israel. The deaths of the Turks in the flotilla raid generated a huge amount of sympathy and support amongst the Turks for the Islamists bolstering their standing.

The Turkish secularists can hit back, by going on the attack on the AKP for selling out the Uyghurs, a Turkish ethnicity, to the Chinese dictators. They can win back support from the Turkish masses. USA too might not mind that.

If the AKP play the Islam card, the Kemalists can play with Turk Ethnic Pride card!

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Airavat » 31 Oct 2010 08:12

Han ignorance about Uighurs
Xinjiang, long forgotten by the Chinese empire, is firmly in the clutches of Beijing, which took control of the region in 1949. Its trade routes once again teem with caravans, this time carrying crude oil, jade, soldiers and, increasingly, tourists. In the towns and villages along this ancient trade route few people speak Mandarin, and the traditions of their ancestors -- whose kingdoms have been swallowed by the sands -- live on in faith and food.

After two years living amid the neon-lighted smog of Beijing, I knew almost nothing about Xinjiang and its main ethnic group, a Turkic race of Sunni Muslims known as Uighurs. Nor do many Chinese, whose ignorance about the people of Xinjiang -- a Mandarin word meaning "new frontier" -- has fostered suspicion. This mistrust has only deepened since July 2009, when ethnic riots tore through the provincial capital, Urumqi, leaving nearly 200 people dead, most of them Han Chinese migrants killed by their Uighur neighbors.


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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RajeshA » 19 Jul 2011 21:37

Beijing, July 19, 2011
4 killed in violence in China's Xinjiang province: PTI
Violence erupted in China's Muslim Uygur dominated restive Xinjiang province on Tuesday as security forces "gunned down several rioters" after they attacked a police station in Hotan, official media reports said. Rioters rushed into the police station, took hostages and set fire to the station, the ministry of public security was quoted as saying by the government-run Xinhua news agency.

A member of the armed police, a security official and two hostages were killed during the ordeal, the ministry added.

The police quickly converged on the scene and "gunned down several rioters" while freeing six hostages, the ministry said, adding that the injured are currently hospitalised.

The national counter-terrorism office of China has dispatched a working team to Xinjiang.

This is the first time the province witnessed such a large-scale violence after the 2009 riots in its provincial capital Urmuqi which left scores dead and over 400 injured.

China blames Xinjiang conflicts on violent separatists working with groups outside China. It accused the separatist East Turkistan Movement, (ETM) as well as Rebiya Kadeer, the US-based dissident Uygur leader for the violence.

The 2009 riots broke out between Uygurs, Suni Muslims of Turkish origin protesting the growing settlement of mainland Hans.

China subsequently contained the violence in the province bordering Pakistan occupied Kashmir (POK) by deploying large number troops.

China also sought the assistance of the Pakistan military to smash ETM network across the border.

Besides changing the local ruling Communist Party leadership to relax some of the hardline policies like permitting the local Uygur language, China also launched billions of dollars of infrastructure projects to modernise the natural resources rich province.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RajeshA » 01 Aug 2011 17:16

X-Posted from Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2011 Thread

Originally posted by sum
14 killed as attacks, blasts rock Xinjiang region
At least 10 people were killed and dozens injured following knife-attacks and blasts in China's far-western Silk Road city of Kashgar on Saturday and Sunday, in the latest incidence of violence to hit the frontier Xinjiang region.

The official Xinhua news agency reported four people were also shot dead by police, after an eruption of violence in downtown Kashgar on Sunday afternoon saw “rioters” attack pedestrians and police officers, leaving at least three killed and 10 injured.

Sunday's violence followed a knife attack on Saturday night, which left seven people killed and 28 others injured, according to Xinhua.

Xinhua also reported that a series of explosions, two on Saturday night and another on Sunday, had rocked the city, but left unclear whether there were any casualties. The violence follows a July 21 attack on a police station in Hotan, which left at least 18 people killed. The attack was first blamed by the government on rioters, but later described as “a severely violent terrorism case”.

The government has blamed the unrest on separatist and terrorist groups. Xinjiang has also seen intermittent ethnic unrest between the native Uighur Muslim population and increasing number of migrants of China's majority Han Chinese ethnic group.

Xinhua said Saturday attack had been caused by two “rioters” who had hijacked a truck, stabbing its driver and then “ramming into pedestrians”. The two suspects then “jumped out of the truck and hacked the passers-by”, leaving six people killed and 28 injured. One of the attackers was also killed.

A later report said “two blasts” were heard before the incident at the same location where the truck was hijacked, without saying whether there were further casualties. Xinhua reported another blast was heard on Sunday in downtown Kashgar, with three people, including one police officer, killed.
Kashgar, which lies a few hours' away from border with Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) along the Karakoram Highway, was also the scene of an attack on a police station in August 2008, which left 16 police officers dead.

Beijing has blamed separatist groups, such as the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, of stirring unrest in the city. It has recently announced plans to boost development in Kashgar and other cities in southern Xinjiang, which have lagged the rest of the region.
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