Indian Army Discussion

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 May 2009 23:00

I dont know why NDTV is playing this up;

India is increasing the number of troops on the border with China in Arunachal Pradesh. NDTV has learnt that two mountain divisions, that is, 40,000 troops will be recruited over the next two years.

It's a huge step that New Delhi has taken and reflects the military's view that China is India's greatest threat.

Deploying more troops is being seen as an assertion by India that Arunachal Pradesh is not a part of China as Beijing claims.

So, why has this been done?

India wants to match China's forces. Sources say there's an urgency to match China's massive military presence across the border estimated at 3 lakh troops. After this, in Arunachal alone India will have about 1 lakh soldiers. This plan implementation will cost the government Rs 5,000 crore.

All this will take atleast two more years by the NDTV report and even after that the troops strength will be 3:1 in PRC favor. They should have raised those two divsions in 2004 itself.

And wasn't George Fernandes castigated by this self same UPA constituents when he called PRC India's greatest threat in 1998?

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 26 May 2009 23:23

Ramanaji
Nothing could happen after NDA was gone in 2004. Congress was so dependent on Commies they held this nation to ransom. These last 5 years of incompetence are gonna bite us some day. At least we are moving now,that is great news. By the time these two divisions are mountain combat ready, our infrastructure will be in place too. UPA gov't last year did make a budgetary allocation to develop black top road to border.
Their advantage is negated by terrain. Only limited number of troops can move through narrow ridges, nullahs, mountain passes etc. Terrain provides number of choke points.
JMT

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 27 May 2009 00:54

Why is old news being recycled now by NDTV? Something fishy ...

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/jun/13war.htm

India plans to strengthen mountain warfare machinery

N C Bipindra in New Delhi | June 13, 2008 13:52 IST

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 May 2009 00:58

it could be one of the proposals in the 100 day plan of MMS to be an Indian FDR. So do nothing and now move it forward as being pro-active.

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 27 May 2009 01:49

Looking at Shiv's videos posted by Baljeet, I saw the name Khokrapar and was reminded of the stack of tickets from that railway station that my Father had bought back in '71, of which I still hold one.

It is our duty to ensure that we pass on these stories of valor, grit, determination and courage to the next generation. Somehow it is quite saddening that we in India with our huge film industry have not interviewed all those brave soldiers that have fought in the major battles and stored those moments for the future generation.

In this the Americans are past masters. Driving back home on the Memorial Day weekend, I saw a Black Flag hanging next to the American flag. The flag was at half mast. On closer inspection, I saw the bowed image of a person and the wording we shall never forget our MIA and KIA. My in-laws who are both retired from IA were impressed and hoped that one day we in India would do the same.

Cheers,
Sanju

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 27 May 2009 08:32

sunilUpa wrote: thats the thing sunil, we have been hearing ...

JMT, I will try to dig older reports.

... maybe, let sleeping dogs lie ...

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 May 2009 19:50

India ups vigil on China border

India increases troops

Two new divisions (40,000 troops)
Artillery brigade, 9 airstrips
Military's assessment: China is India's greatest threat
India wants to match China's forces
Cost: Rs 5,000 crores

Of course expect China to call it an unfriendly act.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 May 2009 19:55

China is undoubtedly a much bigger threat. However I wonder if this is being raised now as means to show pakistan that troops are being thinned and therefore they need to shift their troops to the afghan border...? Unkil's hand in the glovepuppet so as to speak...

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 May 2009 20:02

Wasn't this announcement made a year and half back?

IIRC, its just ToI(let) rehashing a old report....

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 27 May 2009 21:59

Well some jurno at NDTV must have come accross a unnnamed source who must have updated him so they are rehashing the old news. It has nothing to do with govt/election or 100 day plan. No govt offical or minster has been quoted so it's all NDTV and no govt.

The article says after these two divisions India will have 1lakh soldiers in Arunachal pradesh alone. Total strength in north east may be totally different/more.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 May 2009 07:49

The US Centcom is nothing but an updated version of the old British Middle East Command (MEC) prior to WWII. The theater and scope are the same except the forces and the logistics train is different.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 01 Jun 2009 02:42

SBI launches defence salary package for Indian army

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 04 Jun 2009 02:17

Political party bribed army officers: Election Commissioner

http://www.newkerala.com/nkfullnews-1-49508.html

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 08 Jun 2009 05:39

Defence forces agree to free spectrum within three years

New Delhi: The ministry of defence and the department of telecommunications (DoT) have signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) to free radio spectrum by the defence forces over the next three years.

Radio spectrum, an increasingly scarce resource, is the carrier of voice signals between wireless devices such as cellphones. An MoU is an expression of intent of the signatories and not a binding document to execute.

The MoU, signed on 22 May, follows at least two years of negotiations. It entails vacation of spectrum by the defence forces once DoT builds an alternative optical fibre cable (OFC) network for them.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 08 Jun 2009 06:15

Arjun Tanks Future

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 08 Jun 2009 08:54

JaiS wrote:Defence forces agree to free spectrum within three years

The MoU, signed on 22 May, follows at least two years of negotiations. It entails vacation of spectrum by the defence forces once DoT builds an alternative optical fibre cable (OFC) network for them.

OFC is definitely very good in terms of interference, bandwidth and security (hard to snoop). However, we cannot rely only on one backbone to transmit data so there has to some sort of wireless spectrum that needs to be used.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 10 Jun 2009 04:32

Chinese incursions into Indian territory rose sharply in 2008

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 11 Jun 2009 06:02

Israeli firm’s blacklisting impacts Indian armed forces’ modernisation

Army to induct first network-centric artillery system

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 14 Jun 2009 11:26

*Passage from the pages 110 & 111 of the book* *`Toward Resurgent India *'
written by *Lt. Gen. (Retd.) M. M. Lakhera,* PVSM,AVSM,VSM, *one time Lt.Gov. of Pondicherry and now the Governor of Mizoram.

***************
"I had gone to UK in 1995 as Deputy Leader of the Indian Delegation to take part in the 50th Anniversary celebrations of the victory in Europe during the Second World War. I along with four other Army officers, had just stepped out after attending the inaugural session and were waiting on the roadside for the traffic to ease so as to walk across the road to the
vehicle park. Among those with me was Honorary Captain Umrao Singh, a Victorian Cross winner (unfortunately, I have received the sad news of his expiry just two days back). All of a sudden a car moving on the road came to a halt in front of us and a well dressed gentleman stepped out. He approached Umrao Singh and said, "Sir, may I have the privilege of shaking hand with the Victoria Cross?" He shook hands with him.

Evidently he had spotted Umrao Singh's medal from his car and had stopped his car to pay his respect to a winner of the highest gallantry medal of his country. Then he looked at me and said, "General, you are from Indian Army." When I replied in affirmative, he gave out his name, saying that he was Michael Hesseltine.

I was absolutely astounded as the recognition dawned on me that he was the Deputy Prime Minister of UK .

I was totally overawed by such courtesy shown by a dignitary of the second highest status in the British Government and humbly thanked him for having invited our delegation for the VE Day function. Again his reply was typical of his sagacity, "General, it is we the British, who should be grateful to your country and your Armed Forces, who had helped us win both the first and the second World wars. How can we be ever so ungrateful to forget your country's great contribution. "

Suddenly I became conscious that all the traffic behind his car had come to stand still. I hurried to thank him and politely requested him to move along to relieve the traffic hold-up. He stated, "Sir, how dare I drive off when Victoria Cross has to cross the road." Realizing his genuine feeling I and my colleagues quickly crossed the road. Reaching the other side I looked back and saw that Mr. Hasseltine was still standing waiting for the Victoria Cross to be safely across.

Ladies & Gentlemen, that is the type of regards they have for their
decorated soldiers. I have always aspired that similar respect could be shown at least to a Param Vir Chakra or Ashok Chakra winner by the leaders and prominent figures in our country."

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 14 Jun 2009 11:36

In the US, the memorial day is apparantly a big event. It is very widely reported, the news channels began reporting on it over a week before the event. Saw pictures of small kids at their grandpa's grave in Arlington cemetery with the whole family, like spending time with the grave.
The armed forces are held in much higher esteem in the west. A very sharp contrast in India.
The only time the netas and oridinary folks feel for the ordinary soldier is when a war breaks out or something like mumbai happens. Then all hell breaks loose, and everyone seems to want to donate blood, even the netas. Oh the pangs of 'deshbhakti' they have!

The netas and bureaucrats think that by donating one bottle of blood they will somehow repay the thousands of liters of blood they have sucked out of the ordinary soldier's life all these years by blocking / slowing important defense purchases.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 14 Jun 2009 13:24

Major Ramani fought 5 militants took 12 bullets

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 14 Jun 2009 18:22

511 cadets pass out of Indian Military Academy

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 14 Jun 2009 21:16

Gaurav_S wrote:Major Ramani fought 5 militants took 12 bullets

Wonderful and heartfelt writeup about the gallant warrior. But the ending part of the writeup left a sour taste.

The East Zone Youth Organisation has launched a signature campaign, asking the government to bestow Ashok Chakra on Major Rushikesh Ramani. They plan to gather more than 40,000 signatures within 10 days..........

Major Rushikesh Ramani is an example of selfless service to the nation. Nobody deserves the Ashok Chakra more than this hero, who laid down his life so that we all can sleep in peace.

This is a glaring example of what happens when the highest gallantry award is bestowed at the whims and fancies of the government of the day without any distinguishing criterea as to who fought to earn it and who just happened to be in the path of a bullet at the time of the incident.

Nothing to belittle the supreme sacrifice of Major Ramani, but this is a situation that saddens me. I am sure the fauj has its own checks and balances and procedures that will ensure that the officer gets his due recognition. It is this politicisation of such noble awards that is totally uncalled for.

caesar · Post by **caesar** » 15 Jun 2009 12:34

I WAS SURFING THE NET WHERE I CAME ACROSS AN INTERESTING ARTICLE.

Indian special forces world’s toughest --UNI
The Deccan Herald

http://www.meadev.nic.in/news/clippings/20020622/dh.htm

''Hard work pays,'' quipped Captain Krishnadas after his team secured the first position at the 'Exercise Airborne Africa - 2002' at Botswana, beating 28 teams from 12 countries. In the simulated real-war situation at Botswana, the Indian team emerged 'overall winners' at the June 8-11 'Endurance, Navigation and Evacuation' event in which participants from Botswana, France, Malawi, Malaysia, Senegal, South Africa, Swaziland, Tanzania, UK, USA and Zimbabwe took part. The Indian team also won most of the 'individual medals'. Four others — Ghana, Lisotho, Namibia and Zambia — participated as 'Observers'.

While the Botswana Defence Force (BDF) came second and the South African Defence Forces (SANDF) third in the overall ranking, the second India team lead by Major Ranade came 15th in the event. The three-day annual event hosted by Botswana, and initiated by the South African Defence Forces (SANDF) in 2001, had India participating for the first time after General L M Fisher, Commander, Botswana Defence Force (BDF) invited it during his February visit to this country.

Led by Major Animish Ranade and Captain T R Krishnadas, the two Indian teams consisted of four officers and eight other ranks drawn from the Indian Parachute Regiment (Special Forces). The 'competition' comprised of a 35-km 'Endurance March', a 10-km Navigation Exercise, a 10-km Speed March, Casualty Evacuation of 10 kilometres and Combat Shooting of Rifle/Pistol, along with Observation and Surveillance and two Parachute Jumps, based on a point system that was matched with time taken by a team.

Attributing his team's success to ''real life experience got through fighting insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir and the North-East'', Captain Krishnadas said this helped them more than the 'practice' others teams went through before participating in the 'challenge'.

On what the team learnt from the 'participation', Major Ranade said: ''It was an eye-opener for us. The 'Westerners' whom we perceived as 'real toughies', in spite of being physically and equipment-wise pretty superior, proved 'lacking in mettle' when it came to 'mental challenge' in real-life conditions.'' “Our spirit of sacrifice, mental toughness and experience paid off,'' he added. The event organised to test the 'physical fitness, mental robustness and the will to endure under adverse conditions' was mainly to foster goodwill and improve relations between the airborne units of the participating nations.
Headlines

http://mod.nic.in/samachar/feb15-06/h8.htm

WELL IT SEEMS THAT THE INDIAN SF ARE THE BEST.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 15 Jun 2009 12:48

Thank you Ray Sir, that report gives me goose bumps.

There are very few leaders, people who would devote any time to think of Services for keeping us secure. Yesterday was flag day, I had a stars and stripes on my lawn. Which ever nation we are in we need to show respect for those who serve with questioning.

Thanks again do post such good stories from you memory and nostalgia, we will atleast remember those who served when reminded if not on our own.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Jun 2009 18:07

Rather off-topic I guess, but here goes ..................

The German Leopard II tank.

1) Did India ever have an interest in this tank?
2) Was it ever offered to India?

Praveen · Post by **Praveen** » 15 Jun 2009 21:35

Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) has been awarded multiple orders of 34 units by India of its advanced Multi-Mission Radar (MMR) type EL/M 2084. ELTA Systems Ltd., a group and wholly owned subsidiary of IAI, is the prime contractor and developer of the EL/M 2084. ELTA's MMR addresses an emerging requirement to include all land-based radar functions in one operational unit. MMR combines a Weapon Locator Radar and an Air Defense Radar. The radar detects Surface-to-Surface medium- and short-range missiles, rockets and mortars, calculates the anticipated impact and launching points, and provides target data to air defense weapons systems. MMR is based on Active Electronically Steering Array (AESA) architecture and provides outstanding performance that was combat proven in the recent fighting in the Gaza Strip. The radar is mobile and scalable in order to meet different performance requirements. Scaling is performed by means of an antenna of varying physical size and the amount of transmit-receive (TR) module content. The current orders include 3 different versions of the radar.

Weapons locating radar related info from Trishul blog @ http://**************/2009/06/india-specific-assorted-news-briefs.html

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 15 Jun 2009 21:37

NRao wrote:Rather off-topic I guess, but here goes ..................

The German Leopard II tank.

1) Did India ever have an interest in this tank?
2) Was it ever offered to India?

Sir,
Arjun have many genes from Leopard.
DRDO received Major design assistance from Krauss Maffei, the developer of the German Leopard 2 tank, and other German firms. Arjun's design is very similar to that of Leopard 2A4 tank.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Jun 2009 22:56

Malik,

Can you stop using bold.

Please.

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 15 Jun 2009 23:30

NRao wrote:Malik,

Can you stop using bold.

Please.

Sir,
My cooperation is here.
Sorry for that.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 16 Jun 2009 00:00

India wants to match China's forces. Sources say there's an urgency to match China's massive military presence across the border estimated at 3 lakh troops. After this, in Arunachal alone India will have about 1 lakh soldiers. This plan implementation will cost the government Rs 5,000 crore.

Adding ITBP,CRPF,other army units it reaches 150,000 , still less. How much is actually required to match the chinese, is their any equation?

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 16 Jun 2009 13:08

Samay wrote:
India wants to match China's forces. Sources say there's an urgency to match China's massive military presence across the border estimated at 3 lakh troops. After this, in Arunachal alone India will have about 1 lakh soldiers. This plan implementation will cost the government Rs 5,000 crore.
Adding ITBP,CRPF,other army units it reaches 150,000 , still less. How much is actually required to match the chinese, is their any equation?

For a purely defensive posture, 100,000 soldiers is sufficient. As it is, the terrain being mountainous, it is easier to defend than capture.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Jun 2009 13:29

Wars are not won by numbers.

It is won through tactics.

One does not match with numbers. One organises it Aim, the Terms of Reference, the Ground, Relative Strengths and then deduces the Course Open and come to the Plan!

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Jun 2009 13:32

Thank you, John Snow and BRF members.

It is folks like you that makes the Armed Forces personnels' day.

You are all our motivation to never let you down!

Indian Politicians will be Indian politicians. Their bacon is more important than.......

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 16 Jun 2009 16:26

One thing - China has 300,000 troops across the border - not just in Arunachal. Right now it is possible that India has more troops facing China than China has facing India. The threat is what is going to happen in the future with China's improved means of reinforcing the area and its build up of air and missile power.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 16 Jun 2009 17:18

Army asks personnel not to put service info on Orkut, Facebook

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 16 Jun 2009 17:40

Avinash R wrote:Army asks personnel not to put service info on Orkut, Facebook

It is a good development.Several time,I saw the sevice personnels/IPS officers have account in orkut with info.of their jobs.Perhaps to show off,which may compromise the deptt.

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 16 Jun 2009 21:20

Avinash R wrote:Army asks personnel not to put service info on Orkut, Facebook

The circular, issued from time to time to all units, has been re-issued recently to create awareness on information security among net-savvy personnel, they said.

Very worrying indeed if such things need to be told again and again. Such aspects should ideally be ingrained into the officers (assuming that they are the majority among the net users) during the training stage itself. A quick glance on any of the numerous 'communities' on orkut will reveal the extent to which many young officers reveal information that should not otherwise be available to the general public. Photographs in uniform also abound on orkut / facebook.

About time something were done to curb such leakage of info.

wig · Post by **wig** » 16 Jun 2009 21:29

Ray C Sir, i cannot say much about the powers that be and the respect they have or not for our defence personnel. but in the cities, towns and vast hinterland that really comprises india and where i stay i have always observed that servicemen and now women have commanded tremendous respect, love and affection. i am sure this situation will continue with the common indian citizen. commenting on the political class requires considerably more talents than nature has felt it fit to endow me with.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Jun 2009 22:07

wig wrote:Ray C Sir, i cannot say much about the powers that be and the respect they have or not for our defence personnel. but in the cities, towns and vast hinterland that really comprises india and where i stay i have always observed that servicemen and now women have commanded tremendous respect, love and affection. i am sure this situation will continue with the common indian citizen. commenting on the political class requires considerably more talents than nature has felt it fit to endow me with.

You are the source of our motivation and you are the spine of this country!!

God Bless You all!