Indian Military Aviation

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby jamwal » 16 Aug 2008 23:58


The backbone of the IAF's NCW system would be a fibre optic-based network called Air Force Network (AFNET), on which would be riding the Integrated Air Command and Control Systems (IACCS), Naik said. (MORE) PTI Corr NCB VSC SDG 08161641 DEL NNNN


I wish that our defence forces be more careful and selective with their "networks" Whatever little I've seen of their network things, its scary. These people shouldbe given atleast crash courses on "how not to use a computer"

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Malay » 17 Aug 2008 00:42

Guys, correct me if im wrong, but why the hell did we buy Hawks now? I mean we would be one of the last countries in the world to buy subsonic trainers. A LOT of the countries are now developing advanced supersonic trainers for the new generation jets like Typhoon, Rafale, F-35, etc.

Why did we not go for one of those, co-join in some development? As i understand the Hawks were one of the best trainers, but the keyword here is 'were' or 'are', they wont be in the future.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby PaulJI » 17 Aug 2008 03:39

Malay wrote:Guys, correct me if im wrong, but why the hell did we buy Hawks now? I mean we would be one of the last countries in the world to buy subsonic trainers.

The countries building Typhoon haven't shown any interest in new supersonic trainers. Italy has developed a new subsonic trainer (in contention in Greece, Singapore & the UAE right now), the UK a new version of Hawk (bought by the UK, Australia, South Africa & Bahrain as well as India, & currently being considered by Oman & Saudi Arabia), Russia has developed two subsonic trainers.

So far, the number of export customers for new supersonic trainers stands at exactly zero, AFAIK.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Jagan » 17 Aug 2008 04:31

Arun_S wrote:
A correction. For few years starting 1983 the AFA pilots were directly trained on Kirans without flying piston powered trainer ever.


Yes - that too. the timing looks like the period when HT-2 numbers may have been declining and HPT-32s havent yet been inducted in full strength i suppose.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Nayak » 17 Aug 2008 10:56

India to get network centric capability by 2010-11: Naik

NEVADA : Rubbing shoulders with its counterparts from the US and the NATO in one of the most modern war games, the Indian Air Force (IAF) plans to move rapidly towards developing network centric warfare (NCW) capability in the next few years.

Su-30 MKI supersonic fighter jets, IL-76 heavylift transport aircraft and IL-78 air-to-air refuellers of the IAF are pitted against the NATO F-16s and F-15s in the network-centric operations--the toughest test for flying machines and men--over the Nevada desert in their first appearance in the fortnight-long peace-time air exercise, 'Red Flag' currently in progress.

Being the world's most advanced exercise, 'Red Flag' provides participating air forces the best opportunity to test their mettle in a simulated war game that envisages all air battle scenarios in a network-centric environment.

"NCW is vital. You cannot survive today for long against a good adversary without the NCW capability," said IAF vice chief Air Marshal P V Naik, who was here to witness the IAF participation in 'Red Flag'.

He said the Indian armed forces will have this capability by 2010-2011. "At present we do not have it, we are just about network-enabled. But we are in the process of developing this capability."

The backbone of the IAF's NCW system would be a fibre optic-based network called Air Force Network (AFNET), on which would be riding the Integrated Air Command and Control Systems (IACCS), Naik said. (MORE) PTI Corr NCB VSC SDG 08161641 DEL NNNN

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Nayak » 17 Aug 2008 10:57

IAF needs to test its capabilities in foreign lands

Nellis Air Force Base (Nevada), Aug 16: With India's zone of influence now expanding beyond the its mainland, it is important for its Air Force to test its capabilities in far away and varied environments, Vice Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal P V Naik has said.

Speaking at the Nellis Air Force Base, in Nevada, where IAF is participating in the prestigious Red Flag war games , Naik said by participating in this exercise, "We want to check whether we are capable of projecting power over that kind of distances if not more."

"Secondly, we want to test our logistic and administrative abilities to support such a large number of people so far away from home, without much difficulty. In addition, the IAF also wanted to check whether its personnel are capable of operating in varied environments without much loss of effectiveness."

Air Marshal Naik said as far as operations and capability of IAF aircraft is concerned, there are no problems. But with India becoming a global player, it was important to test "how good are we in large force engagements against different types of aircraft other than those we own in India."

He added, it is every fighter pilot's dream to participate in the Red Flag. "It helps you fly in a different environment, fly large force engagements which can be debriefed, picturised in a much better manner here than anywhere else and helps you fly in an environment of different kind of aircrafts than what you are used to."

Bureau Report

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Malay » 17 Aug 2008 17:47

PaulJI wrote:The countries building Typhoon haven't shown any interest in new supersonic trainers. Italy has developed a new subsonic trainer (in contention in Greece, Singapore & the UAE right now), the UK a new version of Hawk (bought by the UK, Australia, South Africa & Bahrain as well as India, & currently being considered by Oman & Saudi Arabia), Russia has developed two subsonic trainers.


UK has developed a new version of Hawk that is only just started being delivered or has just been developed, i am forgetting. Were we not the last ones to buy the previous generation(so to speak) of Hawks, though it maybe the latest of that type, it does not incorporate the technologies of the new Hawk that RAF is acquiring.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby PaulJI » 17 Aug 2008 18:47

No. The IAF Hawks are of the current generation. The first Hawks near this level were the Australian Hawks, ordered in 1997. They had a completely new cockpit, & various aerodynamic & structural refinements. All subsequent Hawks, including Indias, are of this generation, with a glass cockpit. There are incremental changes, but the RAF Hawks do not differ greatly from the S. African Hawks ordered in 1999, & their greatest difference from the Indian model is that they have the Adour 951 engine, while Indian Hawks have the older Adour 871 engine (same as Australias) - and that is the only thing that makes Indias Hawks less modern. I don't know why it was chosen, since the 951 was available if India wanted. It was delivered in S. African & Bahraini Hawks some time before India started receiving its aircraft.

Ah well. Indias decision.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Dhanush » 17 Aug 2008 19:10

PaulJI wrote:No. The IAF Hawks are of the current generation. The first Hawks near this level were the Australian Hawks, ordered in 1997. They had a completely new cockpit, & various aerodynamic & structural refinements. All subsequent Hawks, including Indias, are of this generation, with a glass cockpit. There are incremental changes, but the RAF Hawks do not differ greatly from the S. African Hawks ordered in 1999, & their greatest difference from the Indian model is that they have the Adour 951 engine, while Indian Hawks have the older Adour 871 engine (same as Australias) - and that is the only thing that makes Indias Hawks less modern. I don't know why it was chosen, since the 951 was available if India wanted. It was delivered in S. African & Bahraini Hawks some time before India started receiving its aircraft.

Ah well. Indias decision.


PaulJI Saar,
Just a wild guess. The Adour Mk871 engines shares a high degree of commonality with the Adour Mk811 that powers the IAF Jaguar fleet. That could be one of the reasons.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shetty » 18 Aug 2008 02:04

IAF to add teeth with Israeli missile system

NEW DELHI: The long-delayed IAF plans to plug gaps in its air defence capabilities are finally making some headway now, with the government giving the go-ahead for the procurement of SpyDer low-level quick-reaction missile systems from Israel.

Sources said the deal for the 18 SpyDer systems, at a cost over Rs 1,800 crore, should be "inked within a few weeks" after being approved by the Defence Acquisitions Council. The deal has been hanging fire for quite some time now, with one of the main reasons being the naming of Israeli Aerospace Industries and Rafael in the Rs 1,160 crore Barak-I deal kickbacks case by the CBI.

The government, however, was reluctant to blacklist these Israeli armament firms since it would have proven "counter-productive" with several "crucial" defence projects underway with them. Now, with the Left albatross no longer hanging around its neck, the government seems to be quietly moving ahead with procurements and projects with Israel. These include the projects to develop new-generation 'Barak' surface-to-air (SAM) missile systems.

The IAF had pushed for the SpyDer systems, which have Python-5 and Derby missiles to take on hostile aircraft, helicopters, drones and PGMs (precision-guided munitions), due to persistent delays in the indigenous Akash and Trishul SAM systems. Interestingly, DRDO earlier this year declared that the Akash air defence system, with an interception range of 25-km, was now ready. It promised to deliver an initial two Akash squadrons to IAF, at a cost of Rs 1,081 crore, within three years.

The IAF, of course, is in desperate need of advanced air defence systems to replace its ageing fleet of Russian-origin Pechora, IGLA and OSA-AK missile systems. The gigantic Rs 10,000 crore project with Israel to develop an advanced new-generation SAM system, capable of detecting and destroying hostile aircraft, missiles and spy drones at a range of 120-km, will go a long way in boosting IAF's air defence capabilities to protect "vital and strategic assets".

This project, cleared by the Cabinet Committee on Security in July 2007, will provide IAF with an initial nine air defence squadrons. It's actually an extension of the ongoing DRDO-IAI project, cleared in January 2006 at a cost of Rs 2,606 crore, to develop a supersonic 70-km-range Barak-2 missile defence system for the Navy. This naval long-range SAM (LR-SAM) system basically has four components: the multi-function surveillance and threat alert radars, with a 350-km range; the weapon control system with data links; the vertical launch units; and the actual two-stage interceptor missiles.

"With most of the design work now over, this LR-SAM project should be completed by 2011. The three Kolkata-class guided-missile destroyers being built at Mazagon Docks will be the first to be equipped with them," said a source. These projects, one again, underline the emergence of Israel as India's second largest defence partner since the 1999 Kargil conflict, with New Delhi sourcing armaments worth a staggering $8 billion from Tel Aviv.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 18 Aug 2008 02:09

The government, however, was reluctant to blacklist these Israeli armament firms since it would have proven "counter-productive" with several "crucial" defence projects underway with them.

if only they had the same sense during the denel affair !! :x
"With most of the design work now over, this LR-SAM project should be completed by 2011. The three Kolkata-class guided-missile destroyers being built at Mazagon Docks will be the first to be equipped with them," said a source.


and speaking of denel, something I had missed.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 397272.cms

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Dhanush » 18 Aug 2008 17:06

New HAL unit in Kasaragod

http://www.hindu.com/2008/08/18/stories ... 970100.htm

In the first phase, the facility would assemble, test and manufacture six types of air-borne mission computers. Thereafter, the facility would shift to production of other systems and sub-systems for various aircraft, such as the Medium Lift Helicopter and the fifth generation aircraft, he said.


There is some silent work going on wrt FGFA. Any information about this medium lift helicopter? Is that going to be built by HAL?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby krish » 19 Aug 2008 05:46

well there is some news about the pak fa which is complete different from the f22 or the jsf/ f35's............... it is going to b a swept wing (based on su 47 berkut) which will give it maneuverability more than anyother air craft in production just because of swept wing it will be more agile and with the stealth tech its going to be catch me if u can for jsf/f35 lightning II and f22 raptor


thank you for the information but there is no need to use fire engine red
to highlight your comments.people will read them anyway. secondly, please mention
a source when you provide some information, preferably a link.
lastly, please go thru' the forum guidelines given at the top of the page.
welcome to the forum,
Rahul.
Last edited by Rahul M on 19 Aug 2008 05:52, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Edited to make post more readable.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Nitesh » 19 Aug 2008 11:08

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... trParentID

Defence Minister A.K. Antony is likely to ink three pacts during his maiden US visit Sept 7-10, an official said in New Delhi on Monday.

Under one of these pacts, the Indian and US militaries can refuel ships and aircraft in cashless transactions that are balanced at the end of the year.

Apart from the Logistics Support Agreement (LSA), the other pacts are the Communication Inter-operability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) that will enable the two militaries communicate on a common platform, and an end-user agreement governing the sale of US military hardware to India.

These pacts have been on the backburner for long due to the objections of the Left parties over the warming India-US military ties. With the communists having withdrawn their outside support to the government, which subsequently won a trust vote in parliament, the way is now clear for inking the agreements, a defence ministry official said.

"The LSA would require both countries to provide their bases, fuel and other kind of logistics support to each others' fighter jets and naval warships," the official told IANS, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Explaining the advantages of the agreement, the official said: "India is spending close to Rs.100 crore (Rs.1 billion) for participating in the ongoing Red Flag exercise with the US Air Force."

"Had an LSA been in place, India would not have had to physically pay the money but would have provided reciprocal facilities in this country whenever the US defence forces required them," the official added.

India's ambassador to the US Ronen Sen had met Antony here July 24 to discuss the three India-US pacts.

The US has agreements similar to the LSA in place with some 65 countries.

In most cases, it is called the Acquisition and Cross Servicing Agreement (ACSA) that was formerly known as the NATO Mutual Support Act. It was enacted to simplify exchanges of logistic support, supplies, and services between the US and NATO forces. It was amended in 1986, 1992 and 1994 to permit ACSAs with non-NATO countries.

With the Indian and US militaries increasing their engagement in war games on land, in the air and at sea, CISMOA has become a necessity to ensure there are no communication glitches.

"With the increasing number of military exercises between the countries, the pact is set to be given the green signal soon," the official said.

As for the end-user agreement, India has so far refused to sign it in its present form and has asked for modifications.

"It's like this: we purchase, say, night vision goggles from the US and deploy these on the LoC (Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir). Obviously, we cannot allow US inspectors to physically verify this," the official said.

"Therefore, we'll work out a system where we will certify where the equipment is located and the US will take our word for it," the official added.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby PaulJI » 19 Aug 2008 16:36

Dhanush wrote:
PaulJI wrote:No. The IAF Hawks are of the current generation. The first Hawks near this level were the Australian Hawks, ordered in 1997. They had a completely new cockpit, & various aerodynamic & structural refinements. All subsequent Hawks, including Indias, are of this generation, with a glass cockpit. There are incremental changes, but the RAF Hawks do not differ greatly from the S. African Hawks ordered in 1999, & their greatest difference from the Indian model is that they have the Adour 951 engine, while Indian Hawks have the older Adour 871 engine (same as Australias) - and that is the only thing that makes Indias Hawks less modern. I don't know why it was chosen, since the 951 was available if India wanted. It was delivered in S. African & Bahraini Hawks some time before India started receiving its aircraft.

Ah well. Indias decision.


PaulJI Saar,
Just a wild guess. The Adour Mk871 engines shares a high degree of commonality with the Adour Mk811 that powers the IAF Jaguar fleet. That could be one of the reasons.

I think you could be right. Im that case, if the performance of the 871 is adequate (& the Australians seem content with theirs), the logistical advantages would weigh heavily in the decision.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sunilUpa » 20 Aug 2008 01:26

X posting..

In aircraft engine development, you cannot set a timeline :shock:

Bangalore: Nearly 20 years after it promised an indigenous engine to power India’s light combat aircraft Tejas, the Gas Turbine Research Establishment, or GTRE, the country’s sole aero engine design house, is now seeking outside help.
It has chosen French aircraft engine maker Snecma SA to jointly build an engine to replace Kaveri, a project named after the river in southern India. T. Mohana Rao, director of GTRE, a unit of the Defence Research and Development Organisation, explains why it had to choose a partner and talks about the future of the Kaveri programme. Edited Excerpts:
What is the status of the Kaveri engine development project?
We have a functional engine, but there is a slight shortfall in performance. It has achieved dry thrust of 4,600kg and reheat thrust of 7,000kg in Bangalore, which is around 3,000ft above sea level. So, it would be around 5,000kg dry thrust and 7,500kg reheat thrust at sea level. The engine is short of thrust by 400kg and overweight by around 150kg. Also, we still have to perform long- endurance tests of the engine to run for many hours.
Does this mean the engine for the light combat aircraft would be further delayed?
In aircraft engine development, particularly when you are doing it for the first time, you cannot set a timeline. We could take five or six years. The Indian Air Force (IAF) cannot wait for an engine for that long, and the government said if there is any engine house that we can partner, we could go ahead and do a joint venture on risk-sharing basis.
Only NPO Saturn and Snecma responded of the five. General Electric Co., Rolls-Royce Plc. and Pratt and Whitney declined. Nearly two-and-a-half years after we started the process, we have identified Snecma. The government told us to consult IAF and decide on the air staff requirements before we sign a contract.
Has Snecma given a timeline for the new engine?
Snecma will bring its (engine) core that is named Eco. A core, which comprise a compressor, combustor and high-pressure turbine, is the heart of any jet engine. The engine will have less weight and more reheat thrust along with certain other changes to meet the original design intent. They will have a workshare of 45%, and ours would be 55%. Nearly 85% of the manufacturing would be within the country. The engine would be certified for fitting in the aircraft in around four years. Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd will produce the engine and all future aircraft engines in India would be from the joint venture.
But why so late? Couldn’t you have gone for a global partner much earlier and avoided delays?
It was a decision by the government. When Kaveri was conceived, India did not have a design base for aero engines, except for some work we had done earlier. Globally, they first pick an engine and then build the aircraft. Here, we decided that by the time the light combat aircraft was ready, we should have our own engine. The engine (supplied by General Electric) currently powering the aircraft is inferior to Kaveri’s specifications.
IAF wanted us to build a highly stable engine with a digital computer to control it, and a two-lane manual reversion (a backup for the first time in the world). Rolls-Royce and GE validated our design. Now we have a design base, huge infrastructure and talent pool in engines. We could not have built this if we had not taken up this project.
What will happen to Kaveri and the work you have done?
The core of Kaveri is performing well. Because of the lower thrust, it cannot be used on combat aircraft. It can be used to power unmanned combat aerial vehicles. We have already demonstrated a marine version of Kaveri using diesel as fuel for the Indian navy. It can also be used as a large 12MW industrial genset for power generation.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Gerard » 21 Aug 2008 02:51


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sum » 21 Aug 2008 09:23

At the Bakshi-Ka-Talab Air Base near Bareilly, observers have spotted nine Su-30K fighter aircraft. Under normal circumstances, three or more MiG-25R aircraft are stationed here, for use by the No. 102 Reconnaissance Squadron in operations along India’s western border with China.

Who are these observers? are they magazine spotters or does the magazine use Intel operatives to piece their reports?

Also, werent the MiG-25s retired last year?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Jagan » 21 Aug 2008 09:29

sum wrote:
At the Bakshi-Ka-Talab Air Base near Bareilly, observers have spotted nine Su-30K fighter aircraft. Under normal circumstances, three or more MiG-25R aircraft are stationed here, for use by the No. 102 Reconnaissance Squadron in operations along India’s western border with China.

Who are these observers? are they magazine spotters or does the magazine use Intel operatives to piece their reports?


Sounds like Google Earth Users :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby andy B » 21 Aug 2008 10:01

Jagan wrote:
sum wrote:
At the Bakshi-Ka-Talab Air Base near Bareilly, observers have spotted nine Su-30K fighter aircraft. Under normal circumstances, three or more MiG-25R aircraft are stationed here, for use by the No. 102 Reconnaissance Squadron in operations along India’s western border with China.

Who are these observers? are they magazine spotters or does the magazine use Intel operatives to piece their reports?


Sounds like Google Earth Users :rotfl:


You guys have already pointed out my concerns but I would also like to know who is this Andrei Chang guy? :evil: In the article it says that the company is registered in Canada but is it based in Canada? (Andrei Chang is editor-in-chief of Kanwa Defense Review Monthly, registered in Toronto, Canada.) I tried to go on the home page and look around but could not find anything substantial about where they are based.

Also that article reads like regular chicom bullcrap with outdated information (Su30K, Mig25, etc)..... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Philip » 21 Aug 2008 16:28

The Deccan Chronicle quotes the COAS as saying that the IAF has a shortage of 400,yes 400 pilots,which it is hoped will be filled up within 5 years! Before taking any bleedin' decision on the MMRCA,we should fill in this acute shortage as a time may come when we have more aircraft than pilots.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Venkarl » 21 Aug 2008 23:23

Friends,

I am just wondering why we don't have an Indian name of the Sukhois like

Jaguar--Shamsher
MiG 21--Vikram, Trishul and Bison
MiG 23--Vijay, Rakshak
MiG 27--Bahadur
MiG 29--Baaz
Mirage--Vajra
LCA --Tejas
IL 78 --Gajraj
ALH --Dhruv

Although we BRFites call it Rambha....do we have an official Indian name of it?

Also, when Pak-Fa materializes...what could be the Indian name of it?? Trishul for its resemblance to Trident??
Sorry for diverting the topic :D

Venky

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 21 Aug 2008 23:32

the practice of giving Indian names to foreign designed birds has been discontinued, starting from the su, IIRC.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Venkarl » 21 Aug 2008 23:33

sum wrote:Also, werent the MiG-25s retired last year?


"As per the media"--->Yes
In reality....I have no clue...there must be something we don't know...who knows??

How many MiG 25s were in service??
After retiring them, where do we have them for display??
Are the numbers tallying??
Were there any news about Mig 25s modernization 2 to 3 yrs ago in media??

Venky

----
Rahul M--Thanks for the clarification w.r.t Indian names to foreign birds..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby srai » 22 Aug 2008 02:26

Malay wrote:Guys, correct me if im wrong, but why the hell did we buy Hawks now? I mean we would be one of the last countries in the world to buy subsonic trainers. A LOT of the countries are now developing advanced supersonic trainers for the new generation jets like Typhoon, Rafale, F-35, etc.

Why did we not go for one of those, co-join in some development? As i understand the Hawks were one of the best trainers, but the keyword here is 'were' or 'are', they wont be in the future.


If you look at the history of the AJT purchase program, you'll begin to understand. The original tender was like in 1988 or so and it took pretty much 20 years for the IAF to finally land the Hawks. This is a vast improvement to what it has had prior and was urgently needed. If you wanted to do co-develop one now, IAF would have still been waiting (and losing young pilots) for many more years.

As far as supersonic trainers go, ADA has the LCA LIFT concept under design.

So it looks as though the worldwide trend in training of future pilots to man 5th gen aircrafts will require 4-stages from the current 3-stage: Stage 1 - Turbo-Prop; Stage 2 - IJT; Stage 3 - AJT; and Stage 4 - LIFT.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby A Sharma » 22 Aug 2008 06:42

Pak Air Force modernisation not a threat, but worrisome: Major

The Indian Air Force does not see the reported modernisation and upgrading of neighbouring Pakistan's Air Force as a threat, but it is "worrisome", India's Air Chief Marshal F H Major said here today.

"India does not see it as a threat, but it is worrisome, especially with the situation there now," Major said adding, India was the only "stable country" in that part of world.

The IAF Chief was here to visit Malaysian bases where Indian Air Force personnel are training their Malaysian counterparts to handle SU-30 MKM aircraft.

The Royal Malaysian Air Force is in the process of inducting the aircraft. A few SU-30 MKM have been inducted and the rest would join within another year.

Asked about the IAF's preparedness, Major told PTI that the "operational preparedness of the Indian Armed Forces today is capability-based and not threat-based". The entire Armed Force is operationally ready to fight all spectrum of warfare "at all times", he added.

Referring to the ageing fleet of MiGs, Major said "all MiG-21s would be phased out by 2011 except the 120 MiGs which have been upgraded and are called Bison".

The Bisons would be used till 2025, which means that they would be in service for almost 60 years.

The Bisons were upgraded with Russian help but the systems onboard are India, French and Israeli. "We have expertise in India to do it," the Air Chief said adding, the SU-30 MKI used by India had most of their onboard systems done indigenously.

"It speaks a lot about the technology in India today," Major said.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Malay » 22 Aug 2008 14:04

What do we currently use for Stage 1 training? And what is planned as a replacement for that plane?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Jagan » 22 Aug 2008 16:28

Malay wrote:What do we currently use for Stage 1 training? And what is planned as a replacement for that plane?


Malay, currently the HPT-32 Deepak.

You can follow the discussion from viewtopic.php?p=525175#p525175 for the replacement plans

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby PaulJI » 22 Aug 2008 16:37

A Sharma wrote:Referring to the ageing fleet of MiGs, Major said "all MiG-21s would be phased out by 2011 except the 120 MiGs which have been upgraded and are called Bison".

The Bisons would be used till 2025, which means that they would be in service for almost 60 years.

The MiG-21 as a type may reach almost 60 years service in India, but the oldest airframe will probably not exceed 45. The Bison upgrade was applied, of course, to the newest & best of Indianlate production, & India built the Mig-21 until 1984.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 22 Aug 2008 23:30

India is seeking 22 apaches to replace mi-35s [check economic stimulus link in mrca thread.]

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby srai » 22 Aug 2008 23:40

PaulJI wrote:No. The IAF Hawks are of the current generation. The first Hawks near this level were the Australian Hawks, ordered in 1997. They had a completely new cockpit, & various aerodynamic & structural refinements. All subsequent Hawks, including Indias, are of this generation, with a glass cockpit. There are incremental changes, but the RAF Hawks do not differ greatly from the S. African Hawks ordered in 1999, & their greatest difference from the Indian model is that they have the Adour 951 engine, while Indian Hawks have the older Adour 871 engine (same as Australias) - and that is the only thing that makes Indias Hawks less modern. I don't know why it was chosen, since the 951 was available if India wanted. It was delivered in S. African & Bahraini Hawks some time before India started receiving its aircraft.

Ah well. Indias decision.


It could be that the Adour-951 had major American components that couldn't be replaced by non-US parts. From what I remember, IAF/MoD specifically wanted all the American components replaced because of possible sanctions on those parts which was still fresh on their minds post 1998 sanctions. It was one of the reasons that added to additional delays and cost increases to the Hawk AJT deal.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Venkarl » 23 Aug 2008 02:39

PaulJI wrote:
A Sharma wrote:Referring to the ageing fleet of MiGs, Major said "all MiG-21s would be phased out by 2011 except the 120 MiGs which have been upgraded and are called Bison".

The Bisons would be used till 2025, which means that they would be in service for almost 60 years.

The MiG-21 as a type may reach almost 60 years service in India, but the oldest airframe will probably not exceed 45. The Bison upgrade was applied, of course, to the newest & best of Indianlate production, & India built the Mig-21 until 1984.


I guess IAF will keep Su-30MKIs in service till 2060......no pun intended.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Malay » 24 Aug 2008 20:22

Mate, could you please point me to the discussion that was there about the technical capabilities of the Phalcon( i searched the AEW&C thread-it wasnt there) as well as Erieye.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby namit k » 25 Aug 2008 22:10

SaiK wrote:India is seeking 22 apaches to replace mi-35s [check economic stimulus link in mrca thread.]

please provide a link

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby namit k » 25 Aug 2008 22:12

Malay wrote:Mate, could you please point me to the discussion that was there about the technical capabilities of the Phalcon( i searched the AEW&C thread-it wasnt there) as well as Erieye.

erieye is not as good as phalcon(eg range,tracking etc differences)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 25 Aug 2008 22:16

Malay, I believe it is in the pak acquisition thread.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby namit k » 25 Aug 2008 22:19

A Sharma wrote:Pak Air Force modernisation not a threat, but worrisome: Major

The Indian Air Force does not see the reported modernisation and upgrading of neighbouring Pakistan's Air Force as a threat, but it is "worrisome", India's Air Chief Marshal F H Major said here today.

"India does not see it as a threat, but it is worrisome, especially with the situation there now," Major said adding, India was the only "stable country" in that part of world.

The IAF Chief was here to visit Malaysian bases where Indian Air Force personnel are training their Malaysian counterparts to handle SU-30 MKM aircraft.

The Royal Malaysian Air Force is in the process of inducting the aircraft. A few SU-30 MKM have been inducted and the rest would join within another year.

Asked about the IAF's preparedness, Major told PTI that the "operational preparedness of the Indian Armed Forces today is capability-based and not threat-based". The entire Armed Force is operationally ready to fight all spectrum of warfare "at all times", he added.

Referring to the ageing fleet of MiGs, Major said "all MiG-21s would be phased out by 2011 except the 120 MiGs which have been upgraded and are called Bison".

The Bisons would be used till 2025, which means that they would be in service for almost 60 years.

The Bisons were upgraded with Russian help but the systems onboard are India, French and Israeli. "We have expertise in India to do it," the Air Chief said adding, the SU-30 MKI used by India had most of their onboard systems done indigenously.

"It speaks a lot about the technology in India today," Major said.

gone are the days when there were fears, now we have to prepare against two very similar kinda airforces chn-pak(10-15yr from now they would be alike) if there is a situation. only exception will be unkil who will not cool its furnance and keep providing 1-2 different platforms to paki baby :evil: :evil:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby putnanja » 26 Aug 2008 01:04

Air Force to acquire ATC simulator

Air Force to acquire ATC simulator

Ravi Sharma

BANGALORE: Having to take on a much larger and busier role in monitoring and controlling air traffic at a number of its airports where civilian flights operate cheek-by-jowl with military airplanes, the Air Force is acquiring a state-of-the-art integrated radar and air traffic control (ATC) simulator.

The 360 degree seamless visual system is expected to be operational by 2010.

Senior officers told The Hindu that the simulator will not only help the Air Force train its air controllers at a fast pace (and not on the job as is being done now), but will also allow officers and airmen who undertake ATC duties go through periodic refresher courses. It will facilitate training without blocking equipment that is being used for ATC duties. To be located at the Air Force Academy at Dundigal (Andhra Pradesh), the simulator and the building it is to be housed in is expected to cost around Rs. 30 crore.

Ministry of Defence sources told The Hindu that the products of six companies have been listed for technical evaluation. The competing vendors being CMC, Tata Power, Jupiter Aviation, Alpha Design Technologies, Varisis Advanced Engineering and Software Technologies and Pet Aviation Systems. All of them have tied up with foreign partners.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Venkarl » 26 Aug 2008 02:11

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Army ... 404852.cms

"IAF says it does not have enough assets at present. Instead, it itself maintains some 'dual tasked' fighters, jury-rigged to deliver nuclear weapons. The SFC should ideally have at least half a squadron of dedicated bombers," said a source.


In future, if we have a dedicated bomber squadrons for farting the nukes on p*kes, will it be under SF command or AF command?? If so, which bomber would fit the role??

Also, don't you guys think that top rank military officer from Missile formations/regiments should lead this SF command than an Infantry officer as we have Prithvis and Agnis in SFC as of now?

Will this also trigger separate school for training SFC folks like IMA, Naval School, AF college for Army, Navy and Air Force respectively?
I understand that present SFC folks are drawn from 3 forces of Indian defense but I vote for a separate school as it would not be Army/Airforce/ Navy dominated force which might again cause coordination problems??

My 2 cents
Venky

P.S: I could not locate any thread dedicated for SFC, please move this post to appropriate thread if this is not.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby viveks » 26 Aug 2008 04:54

any news of the phalcon...much anticipated arrival next month?


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