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I thought the good RM had said that it will not allow a SINGLE case of corruption in the Armed forces! Is it that the Defence deals are out of the purview of the Armed Forces and in the purview of his Ministry and bureaucrats so beyond scrutiny? I don't understand and so as a taxpayer I sure would like to know the difference between the Armed Forces and the 'other'.
Reported in the front page of Telegraph 01 Feb 2010.
I thought the good RM had said that it will not allow a SINGLE case of corruption in the Armed forces! Is it that the Defence deals are out of the purview of the Armed Forces and in the purview of his Ministry and bureaucrats so beyond scrutiny? I don't understand and so as a taxpayer I sure would like to know the difference between the Armed Forces and the 'other'.
Reported in the front page of Telegraph 01 Feb 2010.
Very interesting of so called Mr Clean!
Very simple, National intrest is paramount and National security is unparalled. These two cannot be compared with other factors such as corruption in the armed forces. Having said that, defence Ministry/CVC/Law Ministry combined have given permission to proceed with trials SUBJECT to CBI inquiry clears the firms of wrong doing which they seem to claim. In the event they are found guilty then orders cannot be placed with them and the Ban on them becomes conclusive until revoked. I do not see any contradiction in this line of actions which is not giving a clean chit on one hand but keeping the NEED of the guns in the armed forces being critical permitting the trials to minimize the time lag.
We can't have loop holes in the system for the sake of defence and national security. What national security would be a setup, when one can sell lower quality stuffs and beats the cr@p out through corruption.
What I am saying, we can't say, for the sake of security.. but, chase after the loopholes and fix them. Remove the bad elements from the procurement process. Streamline and make the process transparent, with RTI laws.
In fact, by purchasing equipments and mil components on corruption will only lead to failed Guns perhaps. There are exceptions like Bofors that performed extremely well @ Kargil.
Hence, we have to take this case by case basis. We can't ignore the corruption totally.
I thought the good RM had said that it will not allow a SINGLE case of corruption in the Armed forces! Is it that the Defence deals are out of the purview of the Armed Forces and in the purview of his Ministry and bureaucrats so beyond scrutiny? I don't understand and so as a taxpayer I sure would like to know the difference between the Armed Forces and the 'other'.
Reported in the front page of Telegraph 01 Feb 2010.
Very interesting of so called Mr Clean!
The artillery situation in the army is well past desperate. The MoD doesn't have the luxury of going after corruption when the defence of the country is at stake. I for one am really happy with this move. After as a taxpayer it is better to be cheated out of some of your money by corrupt bureaucrats and ministers, rather than have some of your land stolen by the chinese because the army didn't get the guns it has been asking for, for 20 years.
I can't imagine what would have happened during the kargil war had Bofors been blacklisted before the 400 guns had been supplied to the army. Its better for the army to get the weapons after babus and netas line their pockets rather than not getting anything at all.
Boeing, in an effort to sell to India, plans to put a radar on the aft section of its Boeing P-8 multi-mission maritime aircraft and rope in Raytheon to give the aircraft's radar air-to-air capability.
What are the Indian strategic needs and what does the US have to offer?
India wants to replace its Soviet era hardware which is in use for the last 30 year--70 percent of equipment that is in service is of Russian origin. They have reached collective obsolescence and need to be replaced. The Indian military has embarked on a huge modernization drive. In just the next three to four years India will spend $30 billion upgrading its military hardware. By 2022, India is poised to spend another $50 billion; $80 billion is a huge amount of money. Lots of supplies will continue to be Russian because they are an old and reliable partner. For logistical reasons it's easy to replace Russian equipment with new Russian equipment. But India's advance warning capability, radar, reconnaissance and strategic capability hardware are likely be American because the US has the latest technology. Also, an implicit provision of the nuclear deal was the payback factor.
When there is a recession in US the arms industry is also affected. In view of it such Indian purchases do matter to the US. US-India military procurement ties will grow over the next 10 years. The Indian Army is quite keen to do away with the Russians because of lack of prompt after-sales service. But, due to a variety of logistic reasons, they can't. Lots of equipment in service is Russian. But India wants to diversify, and the US is a major supplier. Europe is not happy the way India is likely to court the US to get high-tech weapons. Recently, India cancelled the Spanish mid-air refuel aircraft tender.
In India we don't have enough expertise to calculate lifecycle cost. Russian equipment is cheaper to buy initially but the operating cost over the next 20 to 30 years is enormous. European and US equipment are costly when we buy, but the lifecycle cost is economical. Russian aircraft engines needs service after few hundred hours [of flight time] but many Western aircraft need service after a few thousand hours. The fact is everyone has opened the shop in India because nobody buys as India does. India is in the process of buying 197 helicopters. In 10 years time, India will need 600 helicopters. India is looking for 3,600 artillery guns worth about $12 to 14 billion.
New Delhi. In a first of sorts, an Indian company has started supplying fuselage parts for the formidable Boeing F/A 18 E/F Super Hornet fighter jet.
The state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd has already sent five sets of the Super Hornet’s Gun Bay Doors (GBDs) to Boeing, and 13 more are under manufacture as part of an initial contract.
HAL Chairman and Managing Director Ashok Nayak told India Strategic that HAL, which had plans to invest USD 6 billion to modernize its factories in the coming years, was looking for bigger business in the worldwide military and civil aviation market as leading aircraft manufacturers increase their share of the Indian market due to the country’s requirement of modern, fuel-efficient military and civil aircraft.
HAL has supplied parts for the British Jaguar aircraft that the Indian Air Force acquired in the 1970s, including the over-wing pylon for French Matra missiles that it carries. It has supplied aircraft doors to both Boeing and EADS Airbus in the past, but this is the first time that parts for a US fighter jet are being sourced from India.
HAL also makes Soviet/ Russian aircraft in India, including the SU 30 MKI.
Dr Vivek Lall, Vice President and country head for Boeing Defense, Space and Security (Boeing DSS) in New Delhi, told India Strategic that the current order to HAL was not tied to India buying the F-18 Super Hornet, but was part of a Boeing initiative to source USD one billion worth of parts and services from HAL.
A second order for GBDs is in the offing, he confirmed adding, "I believe HAL and Boeing share a great working together partnership for many years now that will continue to grow very significantly in support of the national industrial policy of the country."
The value of the contract was not available.
But Dr Lall said that Boeing was sourcing some other equipment from HAL, including Wire Harnesses for the Super Hornet and that their first set had also been received at the F 18 manufacturing facility at St Louis in the US.
Notably, Boeing has already tied with four indian companies -HAL, BEL, ECIL and Avantel - for some electronics as part of the offset agreement for its eight P8-I Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft (MMA) for the Indian Navy. It is also sourcing flaperons for Boeing 777 commercial airliners it has sold to Air India under another offset obligation.
The F/A 18 E/F is among the six contestents for the India Air Force's Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (M-MRCA) requirement.
Discussions with HAL were continuing on gradually increasing the orders.
The Gun Bay Door covers the Super Hornet’s six-barrel 20mm, Externally Powered M61A2 Gatling Gun System, which can fire 4000-6000 shots/ minute. Made by the US military systems giant General Dynamics, the gun carries only about 600 rounds though.
The gun can be used in a dogfight if it erupts, although the aircraft is loaded with long-range precision strike weapons and missiles as the emphasis now is on Beyond the Visual Range (BVR) engagement.
So far, Boeing has been sourcing GBDs from Czechoslovakia’s AERO Vodochody, which has supplied more than 300 GBDs already.
Mr Nayak pointed out that last year, HAL had also supplied the rear fuselage for Gulfstream 150 business jet as part of its globalization strategy and increase its annual turnover three times from around USD one billion at present.
Gulfstream is also owned by General Dynamics, which had developed the F 16 fighter but later sold it to Lockheed Martin.
Great news looks like the Indian defence industry is slowly but surely going global!!!
livefist - sounds like pantsyr / tunguska .... I dont know of any israeli or european/usa system in that combo.
I dont think the euros/usa have any tracked AA guns at all! instead using humraams, stinger, vl-mica, roland, crotale, rbs70 etc...and depending on tactical fighters to sweep the skies clear over army columns.
30 JAN 2010 // Indian Army issues RFI for Self-Propelled Air Defence Gun/Missile Sys with range >=2.5/5km for targets flying 350/500 m/sec
I dont think the euros/usa have any tracked AA guns at all! instead using humraams, stinger, vl-mica, roland, crotale, rbs70 etc...and depending on tactical fighters to sweep the skies clear over army columns.
The Gepard is still in service. The Poles have the Loara.
New Delhi. In a first of sorts, an Indian company has started supplying fuselage parts for the formidable Boeing F/A 18 E/F Super Hornet fighter jet.
Great news looks like the Indian defence industry is slowly but surely going global!!!
not a big deal IMHO. looks like a part of offsets for C-17 and P-8.
Dr Vivek Lall, Vice President and country head for Boeing Defense, Space and Security (Boeing DSS) in New Delhi, told India Strategic that the current order to HAL was not tied to India buying the F-18 Super Hornet, but was part of a Boeing initiative to source USD one billion worth of parts and services from HAL.
New Delhi. In a first of sorts, an Indian company has started supplying fuselage parts for the formidable Boeing F/A 18 E/F Super Hornet fighter jet.
The state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd has already sent five sets of the Super Hornet’s Gun Bay Doors (GBDs) to Boeing, and 13 more are under manufacture as part of an initial contract.
I think that is nothing to go out on the town with, nothing major being given out to HAL out of the thousands of parts needed for the aircraft.
The offsets need to have minimum technological level clause in the contracts not just make a nut here n bolt there!!!
We need some desi Shylock's to extract the technological pound of flesh from these phoren companies.
China is making entire aircraft for Airbus and now is signing agreements with Embraer for the 190 series. Though this is a start, ee need more than just GBDs.
On Feb. 11, Boeing announced that it has formally signed a contract with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), for the India-based manufacturer to provide weapons bay doors for eight P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft, which will be delivered to the Indian navy. Under the terms of the $4.7 million contract, HAL will deliver the first set of doors to Boeing in Seattle by the end of the year.
“Although HAL provides other equipment for P-8I through its avionics division in Hyderabad, this is the first P-8I offset package that Boeing has directly executed with India’s largest aerospace company,” said Vivek Lall, Vice President and Country Head of Boeing Defense, Space & Security in India. “We welcome HAL’s technical expertise and capabilities as well as the opportunity to increase our partnership on P-8I.”
“HAL’s consistent performance in quality, cost and delivery in manufacturing aero-structures and composite assemblies is the key to securing further orders from Boeing, with whom we share a strong relationship,” said Soundara Rajan, HAL Director, Corporate Planning and Marketing.
A press release issued by Boeing said the P-8I is a variant of the P-8A Poseidon that Boeing is developing for the U.S. Navy; India is the first international customer for the P-8. Boeing will deliver the first P-8I to India within 48 months of the original contract signing, which took place in January 2009.
The P-8I will provide India with speed, reliability, persistence and room for growth to satisfy the country’s requirements now and well into the future. “The aircraft features open system architecture, advanced sensor and display technologies, and a worldwide base of suppliers, parts and support equipment”, added the Boeing press release.
In addition to its work on the P-8I program, HAL also supplies Boeing with gun bay doors and wire harnesses for the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and uplock boxes for the 777 commercial airplanes.
Here comes the offsets contract of P-8I for HAL!!! I agree that these may be of little value (both monetary and technology wise) but i think we at least made a begining. Even Microsoft used to be a small supplier to IBM and today its as big as IBM. Hopefully our Tata's, L&T can also become Boeings and LM of India only if the Indian goverment reduces restrictions on private sector. About China rolling out Airbus lets not forget that Airbus holds 51% stake in the JV with the Chinese government. Our government does not allow more than 26% stake. So no company will be willing to part with such high end technology. If we too liberalise FDI in defence to say 49% i am sure we too would not be left behind in technology catch up by way of technology transfers. Even Lockheed Martin has offered to set up new assembly line for C-130J in India if we were to order 40+ aircraft.
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NCW solutions on display at the BEL stall are: tactical communication system, battle field management system, networked battled field surveillance radar - short range and coastal surveillance system.
BEL is also arranging a technology demonstrations -- multi sensor data fusion for Army application, and the correlator and coastal surveillance security for CSS.
Among other products on display would be the multi-function HHTI HandDeld Thermal Imager (HHTI).
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11 Feb 2010 8ak: BAE Systems announced that it will form a new relationship with Anjani Technoplast and submit a bid for personnel and vehicle armour based on Tensylon™— a versatile, high performance polyethylene ballistic material exclusively developed by BAE Systems. Earlier this month, Anjani submitted bullet resistant jacket samples — using Tensylon ballistic material consolidated into vest inserts — to India’s Central Reserve Police Force for its current bid of 59,000 protective jackets. If Anjani is awarded the contract, the bullet resistant jackets will be made using BAE Systems’ Tensylon material at Anjani’s Greater Noida facility in India. Download the Tensylon datasheet here.
Boeing today announced that is has formally signed a contract with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to provide weapons bay doors for eight P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft that will be delivered to the Indian navy. Under the terms of the $4.7 million contract, HAL will deliver the first set of doors to Boeing in Seattle by the end of the year.In addition to its work on the P-8I program, HAL also supplies Boeing with gun bay doors and wire harnesses for the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and uplock boxes for the 777 commercial airplane.
Meanwhile BEL has subdivided its Naval Systems Division in to two separate units - one for the manufacture of radars/sonars and the other for fire control systems. More on this from Defexpo.
Uncertainty hangs over one of India’s most strategically vital Electronic Warfare (EW) programmes after the Ministry of Defence violated its own procurement rules by handing it over on a plate to Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL).
In doing BEL this favour, the MoD overlooked the claims of companies like L&T, Axis, and Tata Power Strategic Electronics Division (SED), the firm that Dr APJ Abdul Kalam, called up IN the late 1990s to help develop the Samyukta, India’s first major EW system. So vital was Tata Power SED to the Samyukta that, at a time when the private sector was not allowed into defence production, a special gazette notification designated the company a “Gazetted Work Centre” for the Samyukta.
For obvious reasons of security, serious militaries all demand indigenous EW systems. In the Samyukta project, Tata Power SED produced an entirely Indian Control Centre, the heart of the system. Rahul Chaudhry, CEO, Tata Power SED, elaborates, “Our engineers wrote a million lines of code for the Samyukta. We also produced the ruggedised control workstations, entirely renouncing any support from foreign entities.”
In contrast to Tata Power SED’s indigenous effort, Business Standard has learned that BEL’s share of the Samyukta, including the crucial radio sub-systems, imported the bulk of its components from vendors that included Thales (France); Rhode & Shwartz (Germany); and Elisra (Israel).
J. Cage used to always sing the praises of BEL and mentioned it as a shining example of a defense PSU. And he was right, which is exactly the problem. The fact that BEL is a stellar PSU just shows how pathetic India's socialist MIC really is. After more than 50 years in existence, the majority of BEL's products are built under license. Despite its near monoply status in its product line, its turnover is less than a tenth of comparable western companies.
Why doesn't the GOI start up a PSU to compete with INFOSYS? The reasons such an entity would flounder are the same reasons that all the defense PSUs flounder in India today. Take a look at the OFB website and the antiquated products (other than small arms) they produce it is down right embarassing.
What other major power in the world imports as much as India does? Now we will be importing a turboprop trainer? AK Antony has been a big fat zero as defense RM. First order of business close the job factory cesspools aka OFBs. Wow HAL gets to make bomb bay doors for the P8I. Maybe in 10 years it can license build toilet seats for the C-17.
The MDL scorpene fiasco shows that the so called indigenous component of PSUs are also imported. This is well known fact except that jingos would hate to acknowledge it. The same can be said for almost all JVs like Brahmos, Shakti engine, SRSAM etc but no data will be released to publically
Well, this is not the first time BEL has screwed up things. Check out this old article from Col. Ajai Shukla. Most of us here might already know about this.
Sources within the army, navy and air force cite several examples of how BEL’s influence works. A growing scandal is the unexplained violation of the MoD’s own norms in the procurement of some 30,000 night vision devices (NVDs) for an army that must scan the borders around the clock for militants sneaking in under cover of darkness. Instead of publishing a global tender for a contract that involves cutting-edge technology, the MoD gifted the contract to BEL, astonishingly asking the company to float the tenders for the contract. Instead of being one of the runners in an international race, BEL has been awarded the winners prize.
In the late 1990s, BEL went through the same process, buying NVD technology from Dutch firm, Delft, and making handsome profits by supplying the products to the army. A few years later, that earlier technology has evidently not been absorbed by BEL; the next generation of night vision technology is being bought afresh, and BEL is making profits all over again.
A case in point is the Artillery Command Control Communication Systems (ACCCS), which is a high-tech computerised system for bringing down quick and accurate fire onto a target from artillery weapons like the Bofors gun. The ACCCS project cannot even claim to be going well, having already overshot its budget by Rs 300 crores. Running years behind schedule, and under pressure to deliver, BEL-DRDO threw indigenisation overboard and bought 900 tactical computers (the centre-piece of the ACCCS) from Israeli company, ELBIT, for Rs 110 crores. These computers are based on the outdated Pentium-3 processor. This is a design so outdated that it is no longer available in the market, but it will underpin one of the army’s key systems for the next 25 years.
It is no secret that BEL import things and later suppy them to forces with a label change.
It does the same with encryptors.They imported them from china and installed onboard naval ships.
What makes me feel sad and bad is the Samyukta deal. TATA`s developed with thier inhouse R&D while BEL imported......In the end.....contract went to BEL in the name of INDIGENISATION.
what we all have know is,the parley of MODs
we and MOD seems to differ all ways in the sense of Indigenous.Clearly looks like MODs dictionary had a different meaning for the word INDIGENOUS.
Zingos dictionary,
Indigenous=Local content and locally developed and produced.
MOD Dictionary,
Indigenous= Imported through DPSUs and changing label to cut time overruns.
IMHO, the issue in question is not 'Samyukta'. This is with reference to follow-up requirement for army's front line troops, where-in selected EW equipment (developed as part of Samyukta) were to be installed on highly mobile tracked or wheeled vehicles. There was an RFP that went out couple of years ago for the tracked/wheeled versions.
Original Samyukta entities require multiple trucks, IIRC, to secure/monitor a 10kmx10km area. I think, Samyukta is a done deal with DLRL as principal developer, BEL as system integrator(?) and duly supported, in no small measure, by private entities like TATA.
jaladipc wrote:...
What makes me feel sad and bad is the Samyukta deal. TATA`s developed with thier inhouse R&D while BEL imported......In the end.....contract went to BEL in the name of INDIGENISATION.
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Near verbatim X-POSTED / / please don't. respect copyright. it's also a good idea to use the quote option to prevent confusion between what is the news report and which is your contribution.
thanks,
Rahul.
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CAE's Bell 412 helicopter simulator being shipped to India
12 Feb 2010 8ak/CAE PR: CAE and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) announced on the eve of the Rotary Wing Society of India's Heli-Power conference, that their joint venture company - the Helicopter Academy to Train by Simulation of Flying (HATSOFF) - was progressing on-schedule for the opening in mid-2010 of India's first Level D helicopter simulator training facility.r simulator for HATSOFF is currently en route to India following the completion of manufac
The Company holds leading market positions in thermal imaging devices, combat display workstations, electronic sensor systems, power systems, rugged computer systems, air combat training systems, mission recorders, deployable flight incident recorders, environmental and telecommunication systems, aircraft loaders, military trailers and shelters, and integrated logistics support services. DRS's products are deployed on a wide range of high-profile military platforms, such as DDG-51 Aegis destroyers, M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tanks, M2A3 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, OH-58D Kiowa Warrior helicopters, AH-64 Apache helicopters, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and F-16 Fighting Falcon jet fighters, F-15 Eagle tactical fighters, C-17 Globemaster II and C-130 Hercules cargo aircraft, Ohio, Los Angeles and Virginia class submarines, and on several other platforms for military and non-military applications. We have contracts that support future military platforms, such as the DDG-1000 destroyer, CVN-78 next-generation aircraft carrier, Littoral Combat Ship and Future Combat Systems. We provide sustainment products that support military forces, such as environmental control systems, power generators, water and fuel distribution systems, chemical/biological decontamination systems and heavy equipment transport systems. We also provide support services to the military, including security and asset protection system services, telecommunication and information technology services, training and logistics support services for all branches of the U.S. armed forces and certain foreign militaries, homeland security forces, and selected government and intelligence agencies.
Defence minister A.K. Antony today said the finance ministry had rejected an Indian Air Force proposal to buy mid-air refuellers for its fighter aircraft but had approved the move to buy sophisticated helicopters for VVIPs.
^^^Was going to x-post the Indian Express version of the same story but refrained from doing so as the headline of the Telegraph article you posted is much better.
So there we have it. The VVIP’s of our country, the definition of which will no doubt on grounds of “security” be stretched to include members of the Nehru-Gandhi family, getting to wallow in the lap of luxury in their AW-101 helicopters while the defence needs of the country are overlooked .
arun wrote:^^^Was going to x-post the Indian Express version of the same story but refrained from doing so as the headline of the Telegraph article you posted is much better.
So there we have it. The VVIP’s of our country, the definition of which will no doubt on grounds of “security” be stretched to include members of the Nehru-Gandhi family, getting to wallow in the lap of luxury in their AW-101 helicopters while the defence needs of the country are overlooked .
True.
But that would allow a lot of visit to Pakistan by our venerated leaders to jaw jaw just because our Armed Forces, to quote FM Maneckshaw - lie naked!
I am not of the bloodthirsty variety, but then.........
RayC wrote:
Defence minister A.K. Antony today said the finance ministry had rejected an Indian Air Force proposal to buy mid-air refuellers for its fighter aircraft but had approved the move to buy sophisticated helicopters for VVIPs.
This kind of thing is common place in African Republics and dictatorships in banana republics. The foot soldier is expected to go barefoot and fight tooth and nails to kill the enemy but the man who signs the checks always travels first class. Fake stature!
I doubt if the paper pushers in New Delhi actually spent a month with a BSF unit at the border with rockets exploding around him or with the RR freezing in the J6K snow would be so eager to sign the checks that allow such obscene purchases.
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