CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

[Shameek]

Army pays tribute to heroes.

Youtube-Link

- The 2 vehicles were going to back up an already ongoing operation. So this was planned to ambush the responders.
- The gap in forces created by moving a chunk of Uniform and Romeo force to the China border is being exploited.

[Deans]

Can't help but admire the strategic brilliance of the Pakistani Establishment. With a few M4s and steel core bullets they can bring the Indian armed forces to its knees at a time and place of their choosing .

See the sheer magic - every time such an attack happens... for every indian soldier that is killed NO PAKISTANI SOLDIER is killed. Every time such an attack happens...hundreds of our troops have to be deployed burning 1000s of litres of diesel, aviation fuel and other supplies, consuming millions of rupees. Every time such an attack happens...the Pakistanis can chop off the head of our soldier and all our high priced toys Sukhois, Rafales, Vikrant will sit quietly without firing a single shot towards Pakistan and the ordinary Pakistani soldier will relax in his barracks sipping chai and shagging at some Bollywood actress on TV. Absolutely brilliant!

Each loss is tragic. But:
One can see, even in the heavily censored Pak media, how many people their army is losing to militants.

In J&K the loss ratio has moved sharply in our favor ( 8 terrorists killed or captured for each of ours KIA). By `Ours' I include J&K cops and
para military, including unarmed police. It's not a sustainable ratio for terrorists, or their ISI handlers.

Kashmir is at its most peaceful in decades. Try getting a hotel room anywhere in Kashmir even in the middle of winter. This tourist inflow will
increase 5X once the railway is fully functional.

On the LOC, it is Pak that has got the worst of the exchanges. Why do you think they wanted a ceasefire (which did hold for over 2 years),
when they could have taken advantage of Chinese pressure in Ladakh, to ramp up infiltration ?

The terrorist leaders are being killed systematically by `unknown gunmen'. They beheaded one of ours - One of the culprits was kidnapped from his village in POK and beheaded near the LOC. They kidnapped and killed a soldier called Aurangzeb. We shot a Jaish leader with the same name. This sends unmistakable signs to militant groups and their handlers. The kidnapper of Khurbushan Jadhav was also traced and shot. (to name 3 of the
19 terrorists in Pak shot by unknown gunmen in the past year).

My blogposts (Blog - DeansMusings) elaborate on these points.

[Deans]

A point about lack of armored vehicles for our troops:

We will lose the insurgency the day we travel only in armored vehicles and do not walk around to interact with the locals. We will give the impression that we are too scared to be around our own people. That is when we will be called occupiers. We are winning this war and the hearts and minds of the people, because the army spends most of its time (distance patrolled) on foot, interacting with the locals, playing cricket, doing medical camps (with unarmed lady doctors), attending iftar dinners, treating sick animals, running schools etc (the army built and runs 43 of them in Kashmir - I've seen a long queue of Kashmiri villagers in freezing weather, to get admission forms). That's apart from guarding the LOC and counter insurgency.
We have the lowest ratio of civilians killed - in any modern insurgency.

Bit of trivia: During the Iraq insurgency, Gen Mattis (later Sec Def under Trump) who took command of a Marine division, improved interaction of his men with local Iraqis - and sharply reduced attacks, by making his men remove sunglasses (one is supposed to look an Arab in the eye), not have women talk to tribal elders (Iraqi men felt insulted being questioned by a woman) learn basic Arabic and above all get off their asses and armored vehicles and walk among the locals. This was supposed to be revolutionary, but we had been doing that in Kashmir.

If we want armor plating on vehicles, the terrorists will use a RPG. If we provide more armor, they will use a AGTM or IED and the video of the explosion will go viral (like Hamas videos of exploding IDF Merkava tanks).
If the army is too difficult to target, they will go after soft targets (like retired police officers). Where does it end ? Do we transport army kids to school in a BMP-2 ? The solution is to kill the terrorists and kill/arrest the OGW's as we have started doing.

[Kanoji]

My blogposts (Blog - DeansMusings) elaborate on these points.

Dean ji,

Read your blog post "Is RAW the new Mossad?" just now. Wonderful and informative.

Thank you

[Shameek]

Indian Army recovers arms, arrest three in Pulwama.

Based on specific intelligence inputs, a Joint Cordon & Search Operation (CASO) was launched by the Indian Army and Jammu and Kashmir police at Panzu & Gamiraj in Pulwama on 25 Dec 23. Three suspected individuals have been apprehended with a recovery of 2 Pistols and other war-like stores. Joint interrogation with Jammu and Kashmir Police in progress.

Earlier on Sunday, the J-K police recovered a large cache of arms and ammunition from a package that was dropped from a drone near the LOC in the Akhnoor sector of Jammu district.

Link

[sanjayc]

A point about lack of armored vehicles for our troops:
We will lose the insurgency the day we travel only in armored vehicles and do not walk around to interact with the locals. We will give the impression that we are too scared to be around our own people.

Not armored vehicles, but will it to be too much to ask to have bullet proof glass in army vehicles, since terrorists tend to shoot the driver first? We need the driver alive to escape the ambush site (even one minute drive would be enough to put good distance between the ambush site and the soldiers). Hopefully, having bullet proof glass in trucks and Gypsies and steel plates on the sides won't turn the army into "occupiers"

[sajaym]

I went jogging today morning on a new stretch of road with lush trees. As I was passing through the stretch I could hear the birds stirring & screeching. On the road I saw markings of bird poop, to be in the safe side I diverted my path wherever the marks of the bird poop were thicker and more spread out -- meaning the spots where they were more likely to poop.

So...my point is... whenever an ambush happens, a full investigation needs to happen about the site and general topography, route taken by the attackers for infil / exfil to the ambush site, siting of the ambush party based on bullet trajectory, type & caliber of weapons used, which part of the convoy got hit first, which part of the vehicle got how many hits, how our own troops responded. All this data needs to be fed into an AI-based database instead of some file in HQ. And then this data needs to be used to run prediction models which can be relayed in real-time to troops which are in transit / in ops near the ambush sites in future, so that they have a better effing chance against a similar attack.

I use chatgpt daily to write code into spreadsheets (even though I myself don't know how to write a single line of code! ), so I feel that AI can definitely make such type of predictions. Will it be foolproof? Definitely not, but it'll be slightly better than having men repeatedly run into the same situation and face the same disastrous consequences. Right now it seems the same ghisa pita record is playing each time....ghane jungle the, unche pahaad the, veergati, om shanti, gher liya hai, hum badla lenge...

[Manish_P]

...

So...my point is... whenever an ambush happens, a full investigation needs to happen about the site and general topography, route taken by the attackers for infil / exfil to the ambush site, siting of the ambush party based on bullet trajectory, type & caliber of weapons used, which part of the convoy got hit first, which part of the vehicle got how many hits, how our own troops responded...

...

Do they not do it till now?

[suryag]

It happens and in many cases the lessons learnt are fed into training modules, no one feels more pain than the army

[Manish_P]

It happens and in many cases the lessons learnt are fed into training modules, no one feels more pain than the army

I know, sir. Which is why I asked the other gentleman if he had information to the contrary.

I am sorry but to me it felt quiet flippant to talk of comparing city morning walks avoiding bird poop to the god awful terrain the forces have to traverse knowing fully well that the paki jihadis, with their indian cousins, could have well set an ambush down any of the multiple choke points on the route - which unlike city walks might not always have the luxury of side-lanes or alternate routes.

If armchair warriors like us can analyse and learn from the incidents over the years then what makes us think that the forces, who have to literally put their lives on the line, are stupid enough not to do so?

Added- on reflection I understand that the poster has put his remarks out of a sense of justified anger/frustration. I share that sentiment too. And I await news of retribution. May it be swift in coming and may it be disproportionate.

[Deans]

A point about lack of armored vehicles for our troops:
We will lose the insurgency the day we travel only in armored vehicles and do not walk around to interact with the locals. We will give the impression that we are too scared to be around our own people.

Not armored vehicles, but will it to be too much to ask to have bullet proof glass in army vehicles, since terrorists tend to shoot the driver first? We need the driver alive to escape the ambush site (even one minute drive would be enough to put good distance between the ambush site and the soldiers). Hopefully, having bullet proof glass in trucks and Gypsies and steel plates on the sides won't turn the army into "occupiers"

On this I agree - just as I think better body armor is a must. I understand some of these vehicles have now been inducted in vulnerable areas.

[Deans]

If armchair warriors like us can analyse and learn from the incidents over the years then what makes us think that the forces, who have to literally put their lives on the line, are stupid enough not to do so?

Added- on reflection I understand that the poster has put his remarks out of a sense of justified anger/frustration. I share that sentiment too. And I await news of retribution. May it be swift in coming and may it be disproportionate.

IA operates under more constraints than other armies conducting counter insurgency - and have a better human rights record than Western countries that lecture to us.

In Iraq/Afghanistan or Gaza/West Bank, NATO or IDF can fire at a perceived threat. An IA patrol has to typically react after being fired upon.
In winter, a Kashmiri could easily have a AK47 under his pheran, instead of warm coal. An army patrol can't find out, until they are fired upon.
In Afghanistan a civilian can be shot if he can't understand instructions from 100m away, to remove his outer tunic when approaching an army unit.

We respond to gunfire with gunfire - not using any firepower heavier than a grenade. The US can (and has) wipe out half a village in an air strike,
if someone fires a AK-47 to celebrate a wedding.
No one has been prosecuted for the hundreds of people deliberately killed by US in what later turned out to be mistaken identity (incl. drone strikes vetted by the CIA and cleared by the President. In India there will (rightly) be a furore, if the same thing happens.

It is not the army's job to provide education, healthcare and jobs to the locals. They have to do it since the civil administration has failed, but doing so increases the risk to them exponentially.
This is not a response to anyone in particular, just my thoughts when armchair critics comment.

[vikassh]

Two days back, I came across this amazing interview where Maj Gen. Yash Mor is interviewing retd. Brig. Sanjay Thakur (ex. 9 Para)

Badass Brigadier says:

9 Para suffered casualties because of their strong commitment to each men that no one will be left behind. If some one falls, others make it a point to bring back that person, anyhow. And that is why they suffered casualties.

The first person is always at risk as pigs are watching and IA soldier is exposed. Here the pigs have initiative and they know when they have to open the fire. The IA guy knows that he has very high chance of taking hit but still they go happily. Salute to their courage.

The geography of the place is not very helpful. Flat grass land with boulders. Some times there are cracks in rocks and pigs hide in them. At times, you are standing on top of them and if they won’t open fire, no one can find them.

Because of lull in Af, some really battle hardened ones have sneaked in. They are hardy and resilient and do not panic easily.

Lastly, he said ‘Thokenge to hai hi’ it may take time but pigs won’t survive for long.

Here is the link : [youtube]https://youtu.be/8nXdkp5Pgt4?si=NuZ6WPbbuxxDGYr-[/youtube]

[S_Madhukar]

Not sure about the actual date but the video purportedly shows some Kuki boyz threatening IA with rocket launchers and AKs.... Thankfully IA is in Armoured cars but the bravado of the yahoos is nothing to be proud of. Situation is resolved peacefully with IA being stern and resolute but if they are in open jeeps not sure if they would have been safe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvNuW6GXf3M

[S_Madhukar]

Same Yash Mor is saying about Farmers protest - "Every soldier is a farmer in uniform. Insulting protesters will hurt those at borders too" - what does he want us to do let them create havoc in Delhi to keep borders safe? - The guy seems a double dhol !

https://twitter.com/YashMor5/status/1757663141201379593
https://theprint.in/opinion/every-soldi ... oo/603356/

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/Silent_Forces0/status/177 ... 89870?s=20 --->

आतंकवादी को जन्नत दिलाने के बाद की खुशी

Happiness after sending terrorist to heaven

[Manish_P]

^ hope the bodies are buried in undisclosed locations (would have liked them to be burnt)

[sajaym]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 843365.cms

The vehicles were moving towards nearby Sanai Top in the district's Surankote area, they said, suspecting the involvement of the same group of terrorists who carried out an ambush on the troops in adjoining Bufliaz on December 21 last year, that left four soldiers dead and three others injured.
The Army truck bore the major brunt of the firing by the terrorists who were armed with AK assault rifles and are believed to have fled into the nearby forests, the officials said.

My full support and sympathies with the soldier on the ground, but it quite clear that the morons in-charge are totally clueless and are more interested in saving their asses and giving 'feel good' statements to the media. It is very evident now that there is a well trained group conducting 'surgical strikes' at 'a time and place of their choosing', and we are just allowing the problem to snow ball. These are not any 'militants' or 'terrorists' , but a full blown squad of Paki SF-types operating behind our lines. It is shocking how they are being allowed to operate with such impunity.

Also, again it's a bloody stallion truck which has been attacked. A force which spends hundreds of crores of rupees on one single Rafale fighter jet can't even afford to spend a few crores on an armoured truck IN AN AREA THAT WAS / IS / WILL BE CLEARLY A DANGER ZONE?! I am also ABSOLUTELY certain that 'our brave warriors' who fired back at the attackers also had only iron sights on their rifles instead of reflex / thermal sights, so they must have been literally shooting into the air! The apathy of the people in command is shameful. SHAMEFUL!!

[S_Madhukar]

I really hate these phrases automatic weapons, AKs etc. are they going to bring danda to JK? why are we bringing a knife to the fight ? Or are we so stretched at LAC that we have no decent weapons for the rear … ah we must be still doing moon trials for the Sigs and AK203s

[Manish_P]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 843365.cms
...

My full support and sympathies with the soldier on the ground, but it quite clear that the morons in-charge are totally clueless and are more interested in saving their asses and giving 'feel good' statements to the media....

Our civilian overlords don't even want to be seen to allow the military to have a free hand in dealing with the civilian collaborators..

[Shameek]

Is it not possible to have the driver cab and windshield be armored so in an ambush the driver is not hit and able to drive away from the site? They seem to target the driver first to immobilize the truck and then it's a stationary target in the middle of the road.

[VinodTK]

All convoys should be provided drone coverage, it will not prevent attacks; however it might alert the IA observers if they see any suspicious activities on the route, and in case of an attack will be be able to keep an eye on the attackers and the direction/place of their escape.

[AkshaySG]

^^^
All understandable ideas but imo it paints a pretty poor picture of our CT/COIN success when convoys within our own country need to be in fully armored trucks with drone oversight.

These are all addressing the symptoms and not the cause and that too only partially and with extreme costs

There are thousands of internal troop movements each day/week/month and not all of them can be monitored or secured completely. Americans in Iraq/AFG had only armored carriers and we're always under drone surveillance and yet lost hundreds to amhushes because the terrorists modified their approach with IEDs, suicide bombers etc etc

That is not to say that the symptoms shouldn't be treated, Our troops should definitely get the better quality protection in terms of bullet proof glass, better jackets, rifles etc and overall infantry improvements. It is especially more jarring when all these things combined would probably cost less than 1 gold plated apache

However the main improvement will only come when we start hitting back at the ringleaders and terrorist camps regularly be it in Kashmir, in POK or cross border strikes. "Surgical Strikes" or precision strikes cannot be just a once in blue moon thing but be a recognized escalation metric. We have a general idea of where these pigs are operating from and the only way is to hit them hard at the source.

[mody]

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/op ... 3618&ei=46

Strong action required from IA and govt. of India. Good analysis.

[Manish_P]

^ as can be seen from the photo, the first volleys are targeted on the drivers cabin, to make the vehicle stop or crash.

At the bare minimum we need to make the drivers cabin bullet resistant