Telangana Monitor

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 10 Dec 2009 14:38

A million mutinies now in AP (TOI)

Some salient excerpts:

. "I am in shock and awe. What was the need for blinking. Soniaji's birthday gift to Telangana on her birthday will destroy the party in Andhra Pradesh. It’s like shooting yourself on the foot," said a Congress MP on conditions of anonymity. "I don’t think a resolution for creation of Telangana state can be passed in the AP assembly. MLAs will resign rather than be a party to this decision," he asserted.

A revolt in the Congress party has already broken out with the MP from Vijayawada, Lagdapati Rajagopal who has always been anti-Telangana having submitted his resignation from the Lok Sabha. Later in the day two more Congress MPs from coastal Andhra and two more from Rayalaseema are expected to quit their Lok Sabha seat in protest. About 50 Congress MLAs - nearly one third of the Congress's strength in the assembly will also quit the assembly later in the day and one minister has already done so in the morning. Analysts say that they would have no choice, their constituents will lynch them if they do not oppose Telangana tooth and nail. Even TDP MLAs are expected to follow suit.

"This is one state speaking one language. States in India were formed on linguistic basis so why does anybody want to break up a Telugu speaking state? Why don't they break up a Marathi speaking state or a Kannada speaking state. This is a conspiracy against the prosperous and rapidly developing state of Andhra Pradesh," asked Harish D, an incensed student from Vishakapatnam?" Reports indicate that large scale protest rallies are being planned in the coastal Andhra region.

Political analysts point out that the sudden reaction of the Congress high command was to prempt the possibility of large scale violence breaking out in the streets of Hyderabad during the course of the Chalo Assembly rally that was slated for Thursday. Though there was massive police bandabost, intelligence reports had suggested that extreme left ultras and goondas from the badlands of Rayalaseema had infiltrated the ranks of agitators and that they could create disturbances. "This would force the police to open fire in which lives would be lost. Ultimately this was the perception that made the high command agree to Telangana. But Andhra Pradesh chief minister K Rosaiah who is more in touch with the realities on the ground opposed the move tooth and nail But he was over ridden," an inside Congress source told TOI.

Major trouble is expected to ensue about the future of Hyderabad, the capital of Andhra Pradesh, which is technically in the Telangana region. "In the past Bihar, Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh have also been divided. But never was the fate of Patna, Bhopal or Lucknow in contention. Here the state capital will be part of the breakaway state. This is a totally new situation," a political analyst said. What is going to further complicate the matter now is the fact that people from rest of Andhra have made huge investments in Hyderabad and made their city their home. They will be apprehensive about their well being in the new state. Yet they would not be able to go back because they have moved lock stock and barrel to Hyderabad. "Yet you cannot deny Hyderabad to Telangana because Telangana will be nothing without Hyderabad. It will be like offering mutton biryani to a hungry man and telling him that you can eat the rice but not the mutton," an analyst pointed out.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » 10 Dec 2009 14:58

I come from the heart of Telangana. I can tell you that it is as backward state almost similar to a Muslim state without Jihadi streak.

Some of the reasons for Telangana agitation are

1) In all the Telangana Dists. almost 75 to 80% of the jobs are occupied by the Andhrites. I have nothing against Andhrites. They simply have huge clout. Even for newly created govt. jobs Andhrites are brought on deputation instead of hiring locals.

2) Though Godavari and Krishna pass through Telangana, irrigation system and canal system is non existent here.

I come from a backward part of Telangana(there is not even a moderately developed dist here). Centuries long Nizam rule has taken its toll on the culture of local population. All of my grand father generation are educated in Urdu medium. The desperation to get education and earn a good life for themselves like it exists in other parts of India is simply not there in large parts of Telangana. Its slowly changing now but Telangana is some 30 years behind Andhra region.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 10 Dec 2009 15:10

Some people were robbing the wealth of the state. Some others did not get a chance. Now they create two states. So 2 CMs, more ministers, secrataries and more elites. The people will go through the same daily struggles. It is all a big joke.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Dec 2009 15:43

ShyamSP wrote:-xpost-
ShyamSP wrote:Great day for AP if all elected people resigned for united AP.

About 50 MLAs are resigning. More to go.

All elected people (MLAs, MLCs, MPs, Municiple Corporators) in Krishna and Guntur districts are resigning.

I posted my last post at 12.30 eastern and expected a mayhyem by the time I get up. It is all there to see

We are seeing a turmoil of uprecedented nature. INC played with fire again. Their decision of aligning with TRS is now backfiring.

How will the resolution pass?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Dec 2009 15:49

ShyamSP wrote: What about Rayalaseema which is impoverised than Telengana? Rayalaseema sacrificed a lot for united AP. After 50 years you think they should get big shaft? Same case with Uttara Andhra. What about them?

100+ resigned. Go AP!!!!!

This fact needs to be highlighted in a big way. Everytime someone talks about Andhra they forget Rayalaseema is another backward region. The backwardness sympathy goes to only Telangana.

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 10 Dec 2009 15:51

No option, Telangana was needed: Chidambaram

"What I said (Wednesday night) is a restatement of the earlier stand of the government which is well known. It was necessary to persuade (Telangana Rashtra Samiti chief) K. Chandrasekhar Rao to call off his fast and to restore normalcy in the state. I am glad to report that normalcy has been by and large restored.

"Shri Chandrasekhar Rao has spoken to me and thanked the House for its concern (over his deteriorating condition on the 11th day of his fast unto death Wednesday to demand a separate Telangana)," the Home Minister added.

Sonia convenes meeting of party MPs from Andhra

New Delhi, Dec 10 (PTI) With the announcement of creation of a separate Telangana having its backlash in the rest of Andhra Pradesh, Congress President Sonia Gandhi has convened a meeting of party MPs from the state this evening. The meeting comes close on the heels of Congress MP from Vijayawada Lagadapati Rajagopal resigning from his seat in protest against the Centre's decision to bifurcate the state and carve out a separate Telangana.

Rajagopal met Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar and handed over his resignation, sources said. Talk in Congress circles is that some more MPs are unhappy and may follow the footsteps of Rajagopal. Reports from Hyderabad spoke of a number of Congress and TDP MLAs from coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema regions threatening to resign to protest against the division of the state.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Dec 2009 15:53

Venkarl wrote: Shyam Sir, Coastal people have no guts....very soft,polite people "methaka manushulu".... no noise making capacity like Telanganites or Rayalaseema folks. 1 or 2 try to whine and make some noise like talasani.....but Andhras in general think "if I am well, then all is well"..no unity...no integrity...I don't know why the power of Guntur Mirchi is not working on Andhras
No hard feelings Sire. I too come from Guntur..Tenali to be specific.

You will be the only one who will say about coastal folks. I guess you ain't know anything.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 10 Dec 2009 15:58

After Telangana, GJM wants Gorakhaland

After the approval of a separate state Telangana by the Centre, Gorkha Janamukti Morcha workers have demanded the formation of Gorakhaland.

Gorkha Janamukti Morcha workers have threatened to fast unto death and have called a 96-hour bandh in Darjeeling.

-----

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 10 Dec 2009 16:00

Some law needs to be brought to tackle the blackmail with fast onto death.
Where is RMji

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Dec 2009 16:06

AjayKK wrote:We have to look at the situation from the perspective of the Congress, its political crises, need to "care" for its stakeholders, the YSR family, and its votebank.

Yes, INC calculations needs to be analyzed. I still do not have a clue of what their gameplan is in creating Telangana.

AjayKK wrote: With the formation of the new state, K Rosaiah and YS Jagan can both be CMs, a new state with 12.5 Muslim population will come into picture as per 2001 census. If one drops Mahaboobnagar, perhaps the new state will come close to 15% . With the Lok Sabha being promised that Ranganathan report to be tabled in LS, there will be clamour for its implementation. The report was submitted two year back and calls for implementation of 10 percent reservation for Muslims and 5 percent for "other minorities." The only contention here is the real estate wealth owned by the YS Jagan family in and around Hyderabad. So with the creation of the new state, the space for the opposition would rather shrink, Congress gets to keep both states and also form a plank of solid votebank.

A lot of inaccuracies here.

K Rosiah and Jagan does not belong to Telangana and hence both as CMs is not going to happen. 15% Muslim population is a threshold number.

In the new state of Telangana as time progresses the vote bank politics will be on religious basis and not on caste divisions. It is a disadvantage for Muslims and INC. This is the reason for BJP to clamor for Telangana. In fact 90% of all AP leaders of BJP are from this region. INC will actually lose both states. There is no way that they can go back to Andhra region and get the votes. But they will get the EJ votes solidly in the Andhra region. The newer politics are at best unpredictable.

Regarding Jagan's real estate wealth in Hyderabad, it is exaggarated. He and his cronies may have the wealth. There is no gaurantee after the split his cronies will be his cronies.

AjayKK wrote: Ajit Singh who otherwise would not know the number of districts in Andhra, camped in Hyderabad for two days has lent his "support" to the Telangana statehood movement. Ajit Singh's next step is Harit Pradesh, the western part of UP which has a higher number of Muslim population, of course the move will be backed by Congress and SP later and a "popular mandate" will be created. Already , Ajit Singh has got Rahulji on board with Rahulji "agreeing to it". Ajit Singh said in a report today : "People have agreed to the need for Harit Pradesh and Rahul Gandhi has also agreed. We are waiting for action by the Centre and if they do not take any steps then we will begin our agitation," Singh said in New Delhi."

Harit Pradesh will of course be a dangerous experiment though with " 22 districts in five divisions: Meerut, Agra, Saharanpur, Bareilly and Moradabad and would have a higher Muslim population, roughly 30% "

Aaj Tealangana Pradesh , Kal Harit Desh ?!?

INC stoked the fires and it will have to control. Dividing AP is not a calculated decision and it is a sudden decision. I will go by ramana's suspicion that this may have been designed somewhere outside India by someone else.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 10 Dec 2009 16:38

INC stoked the fires and it will have to control. Dividing AP is not a calculated decision and it is a sudden decision. I will go by ramana's suspicion that this may have been designed somewhere outside India by someone else.

Well, Hon. AP CM says no bill to be introduced in the state assembely until there is 'consensus'. IOW, no bill will be introduced, period.

Seems totally bizarre that an INC that has majority in the assembely of a large, rich and crucial state with 4.5 yrs to go for the next polls will simply agree to pi$$ it all away. More here than meets the eye, 400% only.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 10 Dec 2009 17:24

wow! the tv news coverage is amazing!! The brinkmanship between coastal andhra and rayalseems has started.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Dec 2009 17:27

Hari Seldon wrote: Well, Hon. AP CM says no bill to be introduced in the state assembely until there is 'consensus'. IOW, no bill will be introduced, period.

Seems totally bizarre that an INC that has majority in the assembely of a large, rich and crucial state with 4.5 yrs to go for the next polls will simply agree to pi$$ it all away. More here than meets the eye, 400% only.

I always used to think that INC has lost the plot for all its actions against terror attacks during 2004-2009. 2009 opened my eyes that INC does things with real cold calculations. I am still not able to grasp their sudden move to create Telangana even after they politically defeated the movement during election.

TRS violence is not such a big deal if they had curbed it with iron hand. They very well know how to do it but they took that as pretext to create a new Telugu state. Creating Telangana is not as easy as creating Uttarakhand or Chattisgargh and they know that very well. Some thing very sinster and calculated went behind the scenes. I don't have a clue to even speculate.

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 10 Dec 2009 18:34

Ludhiana violence sparks exodus of migrants

Since Ludhiana faces politicisation of the migrant issue, wonder what the media is highlighting ?
Does it match the 24 hour telecast if the same had broken out in another state ?
A perspective from Saamna in Hindi. Link

Anyway, a decent read. Comments on the situation in Punjab from knowledgeable folks, Munna et al?

manju · Post by **manju** » 10 Dec 2009 19:22

People of Bellary are not fighting to join Telangana. No one has raised that issue. I can say very clearly that unless INC wants inter-state riots and tensions, it will not include Bellary in Telangana. It would rival any TRS sponsored protest and then some. No political party in Karnataka will support Bellary to be integrated into Telangana, nor will the people.

All I am saying is, if people in telangana region of AP want a separate state, it is their decision. But please don't start demanding Bellary and/or other parts of karnataka. It will only lead to bad blood between Kannadigas and Telugus, and that is not desirable from anyone's PoV. People in Bellary areas bordering AP are comfortable with both Telugu and Kannada, and let that co-existence remain. Let no one poison the relationship between AP/Telangana/Karnataka by raising splitting of Karnataka regions to merge with AP/Telangana.

Being from that place i can vouch for that. Nobody is itching to join AP in Ballari. Most people of even the reddy (all reddys supposdly are telugu similar to most sikhs are punjabi speakers) community are more comfortable with Kannada than telugu in rural areas. Telugu is more in vogue in Ballari city.

Like most people of my kulam, I grew up with both Kannada and Telugu at home. For the record there is no animosity in Ballari betwen Telugu and Kannada speaking people. It is ABSOLUTE NON ISSUE

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 10 Dec 2009 19:25

For those thinking 'if someone needs a smaller state whats the harm in giving it?' or 'I dont care as long as its not my backyard'. You are missing the nuances here.

1. The creation of a smaller state will mean lesser resources (police force etc) to fight the Maoists. This is suicidal. Example: The increased impotency of the state in combating Maoists after the creating of Jharkand and Chattisgarh. Advantage Marxist.

2. Hyderabadi Muslims and Andhras with economic interests in Hyderabad now demand a separate/UT for Hyderabad. This means a perennial Muslim govt in the heart of India controlling an emerging powerhouse of the country. A free gift to the Islamo-fascists. The very thing the founding fathers wanted to avoid by making Hyderabad the capital of the larger AP state. Advantage Muslim.

I can talk about the unfairness to the Andhra and Rayalaseema peoples but thats a different discussion suffice to say the only ones to gain are 2 of the 3 Ms aligned against the national interests. The third M is known to be never to far behind..

munna · Post by **munna** » 10 Dec 2009 19:36

AjayKK wrote:Ludhiana violence sparks exodus of migrants

Since Ludhiana faces politicisation of the migrant issue, wonder what the media is highlighting ?
Does it match the 24 hour telecast if the same had broken out in another state ?
A perspective from Saamna in Hindi. Link

Anyway, a decent read. Comments on the situation in Punjab from knowledgeable folks, Munna et al?

Here we go then. I have been keeping the track of the Punjab situation for many a days, first and foremost the violence in Ludhiana unlike in other states was perpetrated by the migrants with almost no local retaliation or people involved. The issue here were some robbery and looting cases which were not addressed properly by the police due to indifference or plain corruption. The situation has since been defused with Punjab being the first state in the country to propose a Ministry for Economic Migrants to the state. A hotline between the CMs of Bihar and Punjab has been established to help defuse any such cases in the future. I repeat there is no element of Raj Thackrey-ism or linguistic chauvinism to this violence which was not perpetrated by Punjabis but by the Purabias (Bhaiyyas). So this case does not warrant 24 hour telecast because the Purabias were agitating against the police and they simply got out of hand!

However the second part to the whole game is the sudden renewed activism on the part of Damdami Taksal and its potshots at DJJS (Divya Jyoti Jagran Sansthan)'s head Ashutosh ji Maharaj since technically speaking this influential dera head from Doaba region is a Purabia (UP/Biharite/Bengali et al) and makes for easy target for disruptive elements. The security agencies have since shifted the baba out of Punjab due to solid intelligence reports of death threats received. Due to the fire next door and the renewed activism of certain players long gone dormant we are all on vigil in Punjab.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 10 Dec 2009 20:13

Muppalla wrote:
Venkarl wrote: Shyam Sir, Coastal people have no guts....very soft,polite people "methaka manushulu".... no noise making capacity like Telanganites or Rayalaseema folks. 1 or 2 try to whine and make some noise like talasani.....but Andhras in general think "if I am well, then all is well"..no unity...no integrity...I don't know why the power of Guntur Mirchi is not working on Andhras
No hard feelings Sire. I too come from Guntur..Tenali to be specific.

You will be the only one who will say about coastal folks. I guess you ain't know anything.

Please enlighten me Sir....I will be the most happiest person if I am contradicted. Did you see the rallies in kosta andhra? very disciplined...police was just escorting...human garlands were disciplined......I am very happy to see such protest with discipline(except few damages done to APSRTC buses)...traditionally disciplined protests will not rake up much in political leadership...things will only change when it becomes violent. Though we have entrepreneurs, scholars, educated, media magnates etc... we are not violent.

munna · Post by **munna** » 10 Dec 2009 20:44

SandeepA wrote:For those thinking 'if someone needs a smaller state whats the harm in giving it?' or 'I dont care as long as its not my backyard'. You are missing the nuances here

This is not about your state or my state but about India. A lot of people and political parties in India are committed to the idea of smaller states and consider such voices sympathetically no matter from where. Granting statehoods to regions diasaffected or impoverished can be a strategic master stroke in attracting even currently non-Indian territories. We all have to agree to the basic fact that Telangana has a history to it the current division may or may not be good but the idea of Telangana state is not a whim or fancy of just one person.

1. The creation of a smaller state will mean lesser resources (police force etc) to fight the Maoists. This is suicidal. Example: The increased impotency of the state in combating Maoists after the creating of Jharkand and Chattisgarh. Advantage Marxist.

States can never overpower insugencies on their own they need centre to help them! By your logic Maharashtra and West Bengla should have never ever had Maoist insurgency. Any state can take on the insurgents as long as the will is there at state and national level. Statehood also helps to sandbox and quarantine the existing malaise before the rollback and it also stops in tracks a potential alliance between the pro Telangana and anti India elements.

2. Hyderabadi Muslims and Andhras with economic interests in Hyderabad now demand a separate/UT for Hyderabad. This means a perennial Muslim govt in the heart of India controlling an emerging powerhouse of the country. A free gift to the Islamo-fascists. The very thing the founding fathers wanted to avoid by making Hyderabad the capital of the larger AP state. Advantage Muslim

.
This is really strange given the fact that Hindutva is treated as untouchable in AP with "uber sekoolar" parties in the fray but yet we have posters claiming Telanagana to be a vehicle of power for Islamo-Fascists. At least this state division is making people think beyond caste and hopefully will result in solidifying of national parties in the region rather than strengthen regional satraps with single point agenda of loot.

I can talk about the unfairness to the Andhra and Rayalaseema peoples but thats a different discussion suffice to say the only ones to gain are 2 of the 3 Ms aligned against the national interests. The third M is known to be never to far behind

The question is what is that national and strategic interest served by joint Telangana and new AP? No body has defined in unequivocal terms the national interest of having large states! All we have are conjectures.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Dec 2009 20:45

Venkarl wrote: Please enlighten me Sir....I will be the most happiest person if I am contradicted. Did you see the rallies in kosta andhra? very disciplined...police was just escorting...human garlands were disciplined......I am very happy to see such protest with discipline(except few damages done to APSRTC buses)...traditionally disciplined protests will not rake up much in political leadership...things will only change when it becomes violent. Though we have entrepreneurs, scholars, educated, media magnates etc... we are not violent.

Biting ones don't bark

.

Why do they need to do on the streets as they have sufficient clout to do behind the scenes. They are also the agri merchants and they can just create a havoc by hoarding some stuff so that the retail prices will increase to unbearable levels. There are many mechanisms to pull down governments and make governments. Are they not protesting now by resigning from the LS and Assemblies? They have the media in their hands and what that means is they have the manipulative skills

Money and wealth has ways to talk too. Street power is not going to help much.

The assumption that Telangana decision is made bacause of street fight by KCR is the reason for your assumption that coastal folks are calm and hence they cannot achieve anything. I want to reiterate that the decision is sinster and some other calculated stuff from INC is the reason and not some 11 day fake fast.

I am not trying to say that coastal folks are going to do some great things now to stop Telangana. May be Telangana will form but it will not form as easily as Jharkand, Chattisgargh and Uttarakhand.

Try to ponder the following possibilities:

1) what if AP government falls?
2) What if kamma leaders consolidate from INC to TDP in the coastal region?
3) What if PRP MLAs join TDP enmasse?

CBN is playing dual role. Frontend he is making lip service to Telangana and stoking action from his party members on the backend. He may make it big "Samaikya Andhra Pradesh" if folks like Lagadapati, Kavuri Samabasiva Rao etc start moving away from INC on united AP format. He needs to neutralize Jagan's influence in AP politics and he may be waiting for an oppurtunity.

When push comes to shove, not all Telangana MLAs may be united for Telangana.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 10 Dec 2009 20:54

Gents,

A quick question here. What are the Constituitional/Legal procedures required to "carve out" a separate state, out of an existing state? Can the existing State Govt. be totally bye-passed, and the Central Govt. can make such a decision? Can the Judiciary get involved (Constituition Bench etc.)??

bhavani · Post by **bhavani** » 10 Dec 2009 20:56

I think the whole state division looks to me like the following scenario:

Divide-and-Rule

The Grand Empress her highness Queen Sonia-beth is using the age old tactic of dividing and ruling and all her vassals want thier own small domains to rule. THe chief minster position has now come to signify the absolute lordship of the lands in the area. The right to land and property anywhere in India are not being honored anymore.

My biggest doubt is how can Sonia can decide on diving a state on her own. She is neither an expert on sociology or local politics and history of these states.

Now that the flood gates are open what is the end?

All these pictures of bandh's and strikes remind me of the good old days, when there used to be atleast 1-20 bandhs every year. Rioting once or twice an year. I hope it does not go back to the scenario fast. If the same situation continues we can expect that the IT companies in Hyderabad, may start looking for alternatives.

munna · Post by **munna** » 10 Dec 2009 20:59

Muppalla wrote: The assumption that Telangana decision is made bacause of street fight by KCR is the reason for your assumption that coastal folks are calm and hence they cannot achieve anything. I want to reiterate that the decision is sinster and some other calculated stuff from INC is the reason and not some 11 day fake fast.
<snip>
CBN is playing dual role. Frontend he is making lip service to Telangana and stoking action from his party members on the backend. He may make it big "Samaikya Andhra Pradesh" if folks like Lagadapati, Kavuri Samabasiva Rao etc start moving away from INC on united AP format. He needs to neutralize Jagan's influence in AP politics and he may be waiting for an oppurtunity.

When push comes to shove, not all Telangana MLAs may be united for Telangana.

Muppallji some moons ago in a hot debate on Link Language forum one of our rakshaks threatened violence in TN against GOI for being Hindi supporters while I begged him to not flare up divisive issues. The fact of the matter is that in our country fasting by Potti Sreeramulu,Tara Singh and anti Hindi riots of TN have already legitimized violence and coercive fasting coupled with backroom intrigues as means of creating new states. If we question KCR and current violence then all other "divisive issues" also come into question. If people in this nation reserve the right to not sing the national song then they do reserve the right to get their states by all means (including the means at the disposal of anti-Hindi gang) without being called anti national. We are free country and asking for a new state should not be used to tar and feather the demanding public as being anti national. If people want newer states in TN, Karnataka, Maharashtra, UP and W Bengal its all welcome they are neither anti national nor cospirators in my eyes.

PS: The people in favour of joint AP are also capable of defending the unity by all means possible so let us see who prevails. Best of luck to both the parties but do not forget we are all in this together.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 10 Dec 2009 21:06

Sachin wrote:Gents,

A quick question here. What are the Constituitional/Legal procedures required to "carve out" a separate state, out of an existing state? Can the existing State Govt. be totally bye-passed, and the Central Govt. can make such a decision? Can the Judiciary get involved (Constituition Bench etc.)??

Basically the parliament with a simple majority.
Yes
Yes, with acceptance from parliament
AFAIK no.

All it needs to modify, add, delete states is a parliament majority.
vide the article 1 of the Indian constitution

PART I
THE UNION AND ITS TERRITORY
3. Formation of new States and alteration of areas, boundaries or names of existing States.-
Parliament may by law- (a) form a new State by separation of territory from any State or by uniting two or more States or parts of States or by uniting any territory to a part of any State; (b) increase the area of any State; (c) diminish the area of any State; (d) alter the boundaries of any State; (e) alter the name of any State: _6[Provided that no Bill for the purpose shall be introduced in either House of Parliament except on the recommendation of the President and unless, where the proposal contained in the Bill affects the area, boundaries or name of any of the States _7***, the Bill has been referred by the President to the Legislature of that State for expressing its views thereon within such period as may be specified in the reference or within such further period as the President may allow and the period so specified or allowed has expired.] _8[Explanation I.-In this article, in clauses (a) to (e), "State" includes a Union territory, but in the proviso, "State" does not include a Union territory. Explanation II.- The power conferred on Parliament by clause (a) includes the power to form a new State or Union territory by uniting a part of any State or Union territory to any other State or Union territory.]

So the role of the state is just naam ke vaaste and for show. The sole and complete power lies with the parliament only.

munna · Post by **munna** » 10 Dec 2009 21:06

Sachin wrote:Gents,

A quick question here. What are the Constituitional/Legal procedures required to "carve out" a separate state, out of an existing state? Can the existing State Govt. be totally bye-passed, and the Central Govt. can make such a decision? Can the Judiciary get involved (Constituition Bench etc.)??

In short yes! India is a Union of States (mark it not a federation unlike USA) and the bill to change the area of a state can be introduced on the recommendation of the President of India (Art. 3) after the affected State Legislature has been asked to express its views on the topic (only views need to be expressed no veto rights). However the general view is to ask for unanimous resolution to avoid bad blood.

To answer your second question the constitution bench only gets involved when a procedure or power gets excercised by GOI that is ultra vires to "Basic Structure" (a term designated by the SC of India) of the constitution. The case of partitioning a state following all due legislative procedures will be thrown out in a jiffy. In our constitution legislature is supreme and if it follows the letter and intent of the constitution even at a very superficial level there is little that courts can do to touch it. In short its SG who shall decide the fate of AP and not courts!

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Dec 2009 21:13

munna wrote: Muppallji some moons ago in a hot debate on Link Language forum one of our rakshaks threatened violence in TN against GOI for being Hindi supporters while I begged him to not flare up divisive issues. The fact of the matter is that in our country fasting by Potti Sreeramulu,Tara Singh and anti Hindi riots of TN have already legitimized violence and coercive fasting coupled with backroom intrigues as means of creating new states. If we question KCR and current violence then all other "divisive issues" also come into question. If people in this nation reserve the right to not sing the national song then they do reserve the right to get their states by all means (including the means at the disposal of anti-Hindi gang) without being called anti national. We are free country and asking for a new state should not be used to tar and feather the demanding public as being anti national. If people want newer states in TN, Karnataka, Maharashtra, UP and W Bengal its all welcome they are neither anti national nor cospirators in my eyes.

PS: The people in favour of joint AP are also capable of defending the unity by all means possible so let us see who prevails. Best of luck to both the parties but do not forget we are all in this together.

I am not questioning the means of KCR like fasting etc. By just fasting for few days someone cannot achieve a state. The decision has something else behind it. KCR struggled to even win his own seat in Telangana and his party did not get more that 10 seats in Telanagana. He did not even contest in recent greater HYD elections fearing huge loss. He is not a popular leader in Telangana and assuming that Telangana is formed and a new assembly elections take place he and his party may come third or fourth in numbers.

Regarding smaller states formation, there should be a commission and reorganize the entire country in one go as opposed to this piecemeal fixes.

munna · Post by **munna** » 10 Dec 2009 21:22

Muppalla wrote:I am not questioning the means of KCR like fasting etc. By just fasting for few days someone cannot achieve a state. The decision has something else behind it. KCR struggled to even win his own seat in Telangana and his party did not get more that 10 seats in Telanagana. He did not even contest in recent greater HYD elections fearing huge loss. He is not a popular leader in Telangana and assuming that Telangana is formed and a new assembly elections take place he and his party may come third or fourth in numbers.

Regarding smaller states formation, there should be a commission and reorganize the entire country in one go as opposed to this piecemeal fixes.

I agree whole heartedly to your points Mupallaji and I agree to the fact that KCR might be or is just a pest, a non entity being used by other people for ulterior motives not really in sync with Telangana aspirations. My point is that the very fact that an opportunist like him is useful to malignant forces depicts some under currents for Telanagana state hood. His role and personality or even party are irrelevant to Telanagana statehood. The state formation is in the hands of national parties now and he is just a pawn that got used by ground swell. May be it was the eagerness of Jagan Reddy and party to usurp power in AP or the paranoia of the Delhi royals that did the trick but the fact remains KCR or no KCR there is some fierce support and some vehement opposition to Telangana and that is all that I can make of as of now.

May lord Hanumaan shower his blessings and bring joy and peace to all of AP. May these tense times give way to prospeous AP and India.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Dec 2009 21:32

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyderabad- ... ration_Day
?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2009 21:35

Munna, A request. Please desist and learn more about Andhra Pradesh, for your innocent posts are hurting AP members.

Thanks, ramana

munna · Post by **munna** » 10 Dec 2009 21:36

ramana wrote:Munna, A request. Please desist and learn more about Andhra Pradesh, for your innocent posts are hurting AP members.

Thanks, ramana

As janta janardhan wishes! So be it.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2009 21:37

Mupalla et al, TSP was created as precedent to help usher in Israel. Most likely this sudden Telengana issue is linked to UP politics.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 10 Dec 2009 21:40

munna wrote: Muppallji some moons ago in a hot debate on Link Language forum one of our rakshaks threatened violence in TN against GOI for being Hindi supporters while I begged him to not flare up divisive issues. The fact of the matter is that in our country fasting by Potti Sreeramulu,Tara Singh and anti Hindi riots of TN have already legitimized violence and coercive fasting coupled with backroom intrigues as means of creating new states.

I am going to set the record straight rightaway as you have been repeatedly flame-baiting me on multiple threads while I am trying to ignore your repeated ranting. The link language thread is still there for everyone to see what I said and whether you begged or not. The same thread is also around for everyone to see what you suggested, so adding masala and buruda to it does nt help. Regarding anti-Hindi riots in TN and elsewhere, I stated that these were consequences of folks in Bihar and UP protesting and rioting the making of English on par with Hindi. Action comes first, reaction comes second, that is Newton's third law. So if you again repeatedly try to white-wash facts, you are only setting your credibility on a low-level. And finally, no I do not claim to be a rakshak, that is what many other folks of this forum do. Thank you. Please desist from flame-baiting ME henceforth, try the stunt with someone else.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Dec 2009 21:48

Let us not fight guys though we can argue a lot as Indians we are all just used to such things.

One thing is pretty clear at this juncture in India - There is huge lack of leadership in all parties and the results are what we are seeing now. During such a situation during the the past era Mughal and British were able to conquest India. We are just arguing here and may be we are all missing the fact that some sinster things are already occupying India and only after some years we may know that the independence is already lost. I sincerely hope not.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 10 Dec 2009 22:32

Muppalla wrote:Let us not fight guys though we can argue a lot as Indians we are all just used to such things.

One thing is pretty clear at this juncture in India - There is huge lack of leadership in all parties and the results are what we are seeing now. During such a situation during the the past era Mughal and British were able to conquest India. We are just arguing here and may be we are all missing the fact that some sinster things are already occupying India and only after some years we may know that the independence is already lost. I sincerely hope not.

Amen to that

. And thank you for the previous long explanatory post.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 10 Dec 2009 22:39

Muppalla wrote:...
Try to ponder the following possibilities:

1) what if AP government falls?
2) What if kamma leaders consolidate from INC to TDP in the coastal region?
3) What if PRP MLAs join TDP enmasse?

CBN is playing dual role. Frontend he is making lip service to Telangana and stoking action from his party members on the backend. He may make it big "Samaikya Andhra Pradesh" if folks like Lagadapati, Kavuri Samabasiva Rao etc start moving away from INC on united AP format. He needs to neutralize Jagan's influence in AP politics and he may be waiting for an oppurtunity.

When push comes to shove, not all Telangana MLAs may be united for Telangana.

Ground swell of support for united AP is immediate and across the board. Almost all MLAs from non-Telengana areas are resigning. If speaker accepts their resignations, Rosaiah government is technically collapsed.

Question is whether congress is ready to let non-Telengana elected Congress leaders go for the sake of Telengana needs to be seen. If YSR&Co joins CBN under united AP banner, they can flush Congress. Even in Telengana they can win over Congress+TRS combo by roping in Reddy alliances. All they need is Musunuri meme.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2009 22:45

The real key is in Karnataka. Its with the BJP supporters: the Galli brothers. What do they want?

Ok let me explain.

- The whole trouble started with the AP govt moving for CBI investigation of illegal mining by Galli brothers.
- The side benefit was YSJ would also be under scrutiny.
- KCR starts his fake fast
- Agitation goes out of control. KCR decides to give up. Public pressure wants him to continue
- Game was to call of agitation if Rosiah steps down and consequently the mining activity is hushed up
- KCR already a diabetic gets worse despite fake fast. Chances of martyrdom were good. Trouble could spread says IB and other ground readers.
- 15 INC MPs make demand
- INC decides to checkmate with giving in to Telangana deciding this is better

WHY? What was out of control that they decided on this path?

BTW, got ground reports those injured inthe OU campus police action were non studnet goondas and 'eternal' students.

OU campus is famous for non graduating students. Ask T. Mallikarjun of the earlier 1969 TPS agitation. He was a medical student for ten years at that time. the rumor is Mrs G flew in one night to assess the situation and all the student leaders were rounded up to meet her around 1:00 AM. When Mallikarjun was introduced as a student, she laughed out loud and said whats preventing him from graduating?
An eyewitness (another eternal student) revealed this.

manju · Post by **manju** » 10 Dec 2009 22:53

I think the Ballari reddy brother's dont have any say or the power to influence Telangana issue. I dont event think it affects them in any way.

From conversations with friends and relatives the reddy brother's of Ballari (who are natives for Kurnool dist in AP) dont get invovled in any politics in AP. This is reflected also from what I can gather in the public (news media).

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Dec 2009 22:56

is there a data on telangana's economic, political, demography, etc. compared with AP as a whole?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2009 22:57

Manju Welcome back! Havent seen or heard from you in along time. Do drop an e-mail at yahoo address.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2009 23:15

PTI reports:

Congress treading a cautious path on Telangana issue

Congress is treading a cautious path on the sensitive issue of Telangana with the Centre’s decision to carve out a separate state from Andhra Pradesh provoking a political backlash there.

Congress president Sonia Gandhi on Thursday assured agitated party MPs from non-Telangana regions, who had come to meet her that any final decision on Telangana would be taken only after consensus.

A total of 18 MPs from the Andhra and Rayalaseema regions of the state including late Chief Minister Y S R Reddy’s son Jagan Mohan Reddy and three Union Ministers Panabaka Luxmi, D Purnadeswari and A Sai Prathap met Gandhi to express their opposition to the bifurcation of the state.

The lone MP from Telangana region to attend the meeting was Hyderabad MP Asaddudin Owaisi of the MIM, which is an ally of Congress.

{So MIM doesnt want the split}

Congress MP from Vijayawada, Lagadapati Rajagopal, who has resigned in protest against the Centre’s decision to form Telengana, did not turn up for the meeting.

Senior Congress leaders A K Antony, AICC in-charge for Andhra Pradesh M Veerappa Moily and Gandhi’s political secretary Ahmed Patel attended the meeting. Later, Gandhi held another meeting with the same leaders including Pranab Mukherjee.

Meanwhile, a senior party leader on the condition of anonymity said, “We have to handle the issue carefully. It is a sensitive matter.”

{No kidding. no wonder he wants to be anonymouse}

The Congress leader on the condition of anonymity also said that no time-frame has been decided for the resolution for Telangana to be passed by the state. He said the MPs from the non-Telangana region wanted a united Andhra Pradesh.

The leader also said the opposition to Telangana is also there in other parties, including TDP.

Earlier, Congress MPs from Telangana also met Sonia Gandhi and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to thank them for the Centre’s decision on a separate state.

93 MLAs have quit the Assembly in Andhra Pradesh. One Congress MP has already resigned from Parliament protesting against the decision to confer statehood on Telangana region.

Party spokesperson Abhishek Singhvi, meanwhile refused to go into the nitty gritty of the issue unless the resolution comes through.

“We know how to deal with problem....these things do not happen instantly...,” he said when asked about the protest to the demand for Telangana in Congress as well as in other parties.

He said, “At the party level we have been told about the consensus...” but evaded a direct reply on whether Congress will withdraw its decision on Telangana if consensus eludes the issue.

Singhvi said the party welcomes the initiation of the process in respect of Telangana and added that Congress’ stand over the issue has been most consistent while other parties engaged in “flip-flop”.

What a duplitious headline as if its some other party in power at Center and State!

And AP LA Speaker to verify each and every resignation!

So stalling for time.