Managing Chinese Threat

[SSridhar]

India-China Begin Counterterrorism Talks - Ananth Krishnan, The Hindu

India and China on Thursday opened a two-day dialogue on counterterrorism, an annual affair which, this year, is expected to touch upon the situation in Afghanistan, following the 2014 pullout of NATO forces, among other issues.

The Indian delegation in talks this week in Beijing is led by Additional Secretary in charge of counterterrorism in the Ministry of External Affairs, Navtej Sarna.

The talks, which have been held for over a decade now, are a routine affair. Considering China’s close “all-weather” relationship with Pakistan, Beijing has generally been reluctant to seriously engage with India on the elephant in the room, as it were, with regard to the question of counterterrorism cooperation.

While Chinese officials did not comment on this week’s dialogue, their delegation is expected to be led by Qiu Guohong, Director General of the Department of External Security Affairs in the Chinese Foreign Ministry.

Mr. Qiu served as the Chinese Ambassador in Nepal before taking up his post. In Nepal, his term coincided with a renewed push by China to clamp down on Tibetan groups.

The Department of External Security Affairs is tasked with reporting on external security issues, overseeing China’s foreign missions as well as administering foreign non-governmental organisations in China. The dialogue is also expected to deal with cyber security issues.

The stubborn Chinese are not going to allow any tangible result from these counter-terrorism talks because they and their front-end, Pakistan, are both neck deep in these issues.

A little bit of background helps.

China has at least on two earlier (2006 & 2008) occasions blocked the UNSC’s Taliban-Al Qaeda group from declaring Jama’at-ud-Dawah and its Emir, Prof. Hafeez Saeed from being included in the list of entities and persons proscribed under Resolution 1267. It put a technical hold on all these occasions demanding to see ‘more evidence’. In May 2009, after JuD and Hafeez Saeed were eventually placed on the list in Dec. 2008, China blocked Indian move to place Maulana Masood Azhar of Jaish-e-Mohammed on the same UN 1267 Committee list. Later, when India engaged China in counter-terrorism talks in July, 2011 and presented evidence about JeM and Maulana Masood Azhar, it summarily refused to re-visit that issue. It also rejected Indian requests to place Azzam Cheema and Abdul Rehman Makki of the LeT under the Al-Qaeda and Taliban sanctions list. In the UNSC, China remained the only country not to accede to this Indian request. The usual Chinese excuse has been “there is no single definition of terrorism” and hence China has avoided taking a clarified stand on it. Because of its close proximity to Pakistan, China has been non-cooperating in counter terrorism issues even though the dialogue has been going on annually since c. 2002. Similarly, China also firmly rejected looking into details of Chinese arms suppliers provided by Anthony Shimray of the NSCN (IM). The Chinese officials insisted the information was still insufficient. The Indian side passed on information provided by Shimray in his statements before the court that the NSCN (IM) had arranged arms and ammunition worth nearly $2 million from TCL, a subsidiary of Chinese arms company China Xinshidai. However, even names of individuals, the agents in Bangkok and other such details did not seem to impress the Chinese side. The Chinese interlocutors are believed to have told their Indian counterparts that they could not act on a mere “confessional statement” — regardless of whether it had been admitted in a court of law. However, while addressing the UNSC’s Counter Terrorism Committee on September 28, 2011, China appealed to the international committee to discard double standards in the fight against terrorism. So that the UNSC Resolution 1373 could be implemented in full.

As for cyber terrorism, it is clear from where the biggest source of cyber attacks, supported directly by the government and the armed forces, emanates.

[Prem]

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/04/1 ... rsecurity/
China and the United States agree to create a joint cybersecurity working group

Today in China, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry announced the creation of a working group between the two nations to deal with the rising issue of cybersecurity. The agreement and its announcement come on the heel of months of tension between the two countries, following high-profile hacking accusations in both directions.Reuters quotes Sec. Kerry as stating that the issue of cybersecurity “affects the financial sector, banks, financial transactions” and that “every aspect of nations in modern times are affected by the use of cyber networking and obviously [every nation] has an interest in protecting its people, protecting its rights, protecting its infrastructure.”Correct, but you must wonder what the group will manage to accomplish. There isn’t much middle ground between the two countries. Given past evidence, it isn’t debatable that elements of the Chinese government have taken part in aggressive economic espionage using digital means; it also isn’t up for question that the United States’ intelligence agencies and military has cyber capabilities that involve espionage.Will either group be willing to slow or cease their operations? The easy answer is no.Still, it could be that certain parts of economic hacking could slow, which would lower tension between the two countries; China and the United States are key trading powers and global military leaders, but friction is the constant background of their relations. North Korea is only part of the equation here.China claims to be the victim of hacking incursion by the United States. Reports published by the United States demonstrate - corroborated by senior members of Congress – that China has military-funded groups of professionals that break into firms based in the country. The working group has much work to do.

[SSridhar]

Back-to-Back PM Visits to Boost India-China ties - The Hindu

India and China are working towards stacking up more confidence building measures (CBMs) during a period of frequent consultations that could lead to the first-ever back-to-back visits by the two Prime Ministers in coming months.

Both sides, according to informed sources, are currently finalising details of a visit by the new Chinese Premier, Li Keqiang, to New Delhi. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is expected to visit Beijing later this year, possibly in June.

Mr. Li’s India trip may even be the new Premier’s first ever overseas visit if mutually convenient dates are worked out for next month. Dr. Singh had his maiden meeting with the new Chinese President Xi Jinping on the sidelines of last month’s Durban BRICS summit.

A CBM with high symbolic value that both governments are working over is a hotline between the two Prime Ministers. This could add to the several CBMs announced or implemented last year in the maritime and land domains.

The year also saw the resumption of military exchanges, an agreement on joint military exercises and the holding of a dialogue on counter-terrorism. This marked considerable improvement in bilateral atmospherics as compared to recent years when both countries suspended military exchanges and withdrew from border talks.

Chinese officials are particularly keen to use Mr. Li’s visit to send a positive signal to India that the new leadership wants to take the ties to “a higher level,” as Mr. Li told Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in a telephonic conversation shortly after taking over last month. Dr. Singh was one of the first leaders Mr. Li spoke to after he was appointed Premier on March 15 following the session of the National People’s Congress, or Parliament.

This would send a strong message, sources said, on how the new leadership in Beijing, which took over in March following a once-in-ten year leadership change, viewed relations with India as a priority. Mr. Li is also the second-ranked member of the Communist Party’s Politburo Standing Committee, which is headed by the Chinese President.

To send that message, they have made the point that they are prepared to overlook the usual factor of reciprocity that determines diplomatic visits — the Indian Prime Minister is actually due first in China according to protocol, following the former Premier Wen Jiabao’s visit to New Delhi in 2010.

China’s keenness to push bilateral relations comes amid increasing challenges faced by Beijing from its eastern neighbours, with persistent tensions with Japan over the disputed East China Sea, continuing strains with Vietnam and the Philippines over the South China Sea, and recent complications on the Korean peninsula following an escalation of threats from North Korea.

Mr. Xi extended an invitation to Dr. Singh, which he accepted, following their first meeting last month on the sidelines of the BRICS Summit in Durban.

India and China have stepped up engagement in the lead-up to the visits by the two Prime Ministers in the hope, sources said, of achieving concrete outcomes during the two visits that would signal a significant boosting of ties on various fronts, from defence ties to increasing coordination on regional challenges.

Indian Ambassador to China S. Jaishankar will reach New Delhi on Sunday for consultations to lay the groundwork for the visit of Mr. Li.

India and China on Friday also concluded two-day consultations on counter-terrorism and their officials will meet in Beijing on April 18 for the first-ever consultations on Afghanistan, with Joint Secretary for Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran Yash Sinha travelling to the Chinese capital. Visits by Defence Minister A.K. Antony and National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon are also on the cards, as is a resumption in defence exercises which are set to be held in China later this year after a five-year gap.

[SSridhar]

Space Plays a Growing Role in US-China Security Talks: US Official
Excerpts

"Over the past year or so, space has been included in an increasing way and we hope to continue those discussions on space security," Frank Rose, deputy assistant secretary of state for space and defense policy, told Reuters after a speech at a space industry conference in Colorado Springs.

The United States remains concerned about China's development of anti-satellite capabilities after it shot a missile at one of its own defunct satellite on orbit in 2007, creating an enormous amount of debris in space, Rose said.

"The United States continues to have concerns about the development of China's anti-satellite program but we also want to engage them and talk about it," Rose said. "It's in no one's interest to have long-lived debris in outer space."

Washington is keeping a watchful eye on China's activities in space after an intelligence report last year raised concerns about China's expanding ability to disrupt the most sensitive U.S. military and intelligence satellites.

Sources familiar with the report said it contained credible information about China's ability to potentially damage U.S. satellites in higher orbits using its own satellites, missiles or ground-based jamming techniques. It has already conducted several anti-satellite tests in lower orbits.

[SSridhar]

Chinese Premier to visit India in May - The Hindu

Official sources have confirmed Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s plans to visit India in May on his first overseas tour after assuming office.

The meeting could see both leaders adding to the confidence building measures that have seen a gradual step up since both sides signed a protocol in 2005 to define rules of behaviour along the line of actual control (LAC).

A positive signal

As The Hindu had reported, Chinese officials are particularly keen to use Mr. Li’s visit to send a positive signal to India that the new leadership wants to take the ties to “a higher level.”

Dr. Singh was one of the first leaders Mr. Li spoke to after he was appointed Premier on March 15 following the session of the National People’s Congress, or Parliament.

Sources said this would send a strong message on how the new leadership in Beijing viewed relations with India as a priority.

Mr. Li ranks second in the Communist Party’s Politburo Standing Committee, which is headed by Chinese President Xi Jinpeng.

To send that message, Chinese officials said they were prepared to overlook the usual factor of reciprocity that determines diplomatic visits — the Indian Prime Minister is actually due first in China according to protocol, following the former Premier Wen Jiabao’s visit to New Delhi in 2010.

Interest amid tensions

China has shown keenness to improve ties with India at a time when it has had continuing tensions over sovereignty issues with Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines and is facing a challenging time in managing the North Korea crises.

The new Chinese President’s gesture was almost similar.

Mr. Xi's first overseas visit was to Moscow. Following this the Chinese President met Dr. Singh twice in as many days on the sidelines of the BRICS Summit in Durban last month.

[JE Menon]

What a bunch of ass kissers these people at the 'Hindu' are... Grovelling and explaining away ... Li is not the equivalent of our pm.

[Christopher Sidor]

Chinese Premier to visit India in May - The Hindu

Official sources have confirmed Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s plans to visit India in May on his first overseas tour after assuming office.

The meeting could see both leaders adding to the confidence building measures that have seen a gradual step up since both sides signed a protocol in 2005 to define rules of behaviour along the line of actual control (LAC).

A positive signal

As The Hindu had reported, Chinese officials are particularly keen to use Mr. Li’s visit to send a positive signal to India that the new leadership wants to take the ties to “a higher level.”

Dr. Singh was one of the first leaders Mr. Li spoke to after he was appointed Premier on March 15 following the session of the National People’s Congress, or Parliament.

Sources said this would send a strong message on how the new leadership in Beijing viewed relations with India as a priority.

Mr. Li ranks second in the Communist Party’s Politburo Standing Committee, which is headed by Chinese President Xi Jinpeng.

To send that message, Chinese officials said they were prepared to overlook the usual factor of reciprocity that determines diplomatic visits — the Indian Prime Minister is actually due first in China according to protocol, following the former Premier Wen Jiabao’s visit to New Delhi in 2010.

Interest amid tensions

China has shown keenness to improve ties with India at a time when it has had continuing tensions over sovereignty issues with Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines and is facing a challenging time in managing the North Korea crises.

The new Chinese President’s gesture was almost similar.

Mr. Xi's first overseas visit was to Moscow. Following this the Chinese President met Dr. Singh twice in as many days on the sidelines of the BRICS Summit in Durban last month.

PRC sees relationship with India a priority as it does not want anything drastically to go wrong on its western and south western flanks, in case the shit hits the fan in western pacific. The priority is to avoid India from tilting towards Japan, US and other South-East Asian nations. It past actions and continuing actions are proof enough. In the so called "core issues", i.e. illegal and immoral occupation of Tibet and East Turkestan, its continued support to Pakistan (in nuclear field, in terrorism field) and also its support to insurgents in India point all to a hostile neighbor whose premier will come just for deceiving us.

[SSridhar]

India's approach to PRC should be strictly reciprocal, in fact our reciprocity should be less than expected by the Chinese side. I agree with Christopher Sidor that China is building (or trying to build) a tactical bridge at this point of time when it is hemmed in from all sides and there is economic slowdown (this quarter's results, for example). We should not simply fall for Chinese overtures now even if A.G.Noorani would write how India lost a golden opportunity in April 2013 ten years hence in Front Line. If China has not cared for Indian sensitivities for decades now, we need not either of Chinese sensitivities or predicaments unless of course the dividend is enormous, immediate and solid. In our engagement every time with China, we must forcefully bring out the Chinese support to Pakistan directly at our cost. We must begin to extract concessions from China and we may have some aces up our sleeve in a long time after all.

[shyamd]

For those interested in China's armed forces. The Chinese govt released a white paper today - everyone analyst is giving this a read:

Full Text: The Diversified Employment of China's Armed Forces

[SSridhar]

India-China to hold dialogue on Afghanistan = ToI

After that China and Pakistan held talks on the same subject few days ago, the outcome of which, official say lays a broad framework for tomorrow's Beijing-New Delhi talks on Afghanistan.

Interesting. China has tasted TTP's medicine several times and at one point almost withdrew all its personnel from TSP. The 'arrest' by the Ghazi brothers of seven Chinese women in Islamabad and the pressure from PRC precipitated Musharraf's action at Laal Masjid in 2007. The rest is history and the TTP have been angrier with the Chinese after that. Let's watch how it progresses.

[SSridhar]

China's aid to Tajikistan does not clash with India's interests: Hameed Ansari - Sandeep Dikshit, The Hindu

Amid China’s growing influence on Tajikistan, Vice President Hamid Ansari, who concluded his “extremely productive” four-day visit to the Middle East nation on Wednesday, said India had no clash of interests with China.

Speaking to The Hindu on board Air India’s special plane, returning to New Delhi from Dushanbe, Mr. Ansari was replying to a question whether India was worried over the assistance China was providing Tajikistan.

“There is no clash [of interests] in giving assistance to Tajikistan. We are doing it in our own way and helping Tajikistan in capacity building, human resource development, information technology and they are very appreciative about it. We are not in competition with any country,” the Vice President told journalists accompanying him on his first ever visit to Tajikistan, which shares a nearly 500-km-long border with China.

Mr. Ansari said that besides the substance of his discussions with the Tajik leadership, headed by its President Emomali Rahmon, the general ambience and warmth displayed by his hosts was “very significant” in the field of international diplomacy.

“We had very important discussions with the President, who himself chaired the delegation-level talks and it was indicative of his approach and closeness towards India,” the Vice President said.

Mr. Ansari said the focus of his visit was to go forward from where India and Tajikistan had started out in September 2012, when President Rahmon had visited New Delhi for the fifth time and the special relationship between the two countries was elevated to the strategic partnership.

The Vice President said the focus of his visit was two-fold — to reiterate India’s commitment to decisions taken in September 2012 and to raise the relationship to a higher level in terms of the frequency of high-level interaction. “I think my visit achieved these objectives. It was substantive and there were no problem areas,” he said.

In reply to another question about the roadmap for further pushing India’s “Connect Central Asia” policy, Mr. Ansari policies such as “Look East” must be seen in totality and all Central Asian countries came under its umbrella.

[chaanakya]

Chinese troops intrude into Indian territory in Ladakh, erect a tented post

LEH/NEW DELHI: In a deep incursion, Chinese troops have entered the Indian territory in Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) sector in eastern Ladakh and erected a tented post, setting the stage for a face-off with Indian troops.


A Platoon-strength contingent of China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) came 10 km inside the Indian territory in Burthe in DBO sector, which is at an altitude of about 17,000 feet, on the night of April 15 and established a tented post there, according to highly placed sources, which said that a Chinese Army Platoon usually consists of around 50 men.

[SSridhar]

So, the neo Panch Sheel was as humbug as the old one ? Did not even last a few weeks.

[Prem]

We need to encroach twice the area on their side and let them know. Small Putcsh toward Lhasa will send the right signal.is this New Chinese Premier sending the signal to MMS that he will negotiate,approach from the position of strength?

[SSridhar]

See, GoI tries to deceive itself by claiming that these are *not* intrusions but merely transgressions because of the differing perception of the LAC.

[Karan Dixit]

Chinese pushed in 10km and India pushed in only 300m in response. I do not think that is the right proportion. If they push in 10km, we should push in 30km. I think that would be the right response.

[eklavya]

Chinese pushed in 10km and India pushed in only 300m in response. I do not think that is the right proportion. If they push in 10km, we should push in 30km. I think that would be the right response.

Karan, my reading of the news is that IA has built a post in Indian territory 300m from the Chinese post, which is 10km inside Indian territory. That makes the IA post ca 10km inside India, not 300m inside China. IA has not even built a post at where India perceives the border to be, because that post would be a minimum 10km from the PLA post, not 300m from the PLA post. I don't see how the IA response has done anything to demonstrate India's view of where the border lies.

Not clear what diplomatic or military means India is using to undo the aggression. Anyway, there must be some reason or reasoning (good or bad) for releasing the information to the media.

[shyamd]

The leak is meant to signal to the PRC higher ups whats going on here - upto PRC if they want a fight. So there will be some back room stuff going on now. If it is not solved then the media will force the govt to take a tough stand. The problem with PRC is that these generals in the PLA have enough power to disagree with the top and do their own thing - the biggest problem when Obama govt negotiates with PRC - nothing signed at the top sticks.

[eklavya]

shyam, getting rid of this 50 man PLA platoon and their post is a 5 minute job; 2 or 3 artillery shells or 1 LGB will blow it to bits. Question is, what will be the PLA response, and does India feel adequately prepared to deal with the escalation. Looks like PLA is testing GoI/IA resolve/preparedness. If I was in the PLA, I would interpret the IA response as weakness.

PLA and CPC leadership are united when it comes to messing with India; no point thinking/hoping otherwise.

[SSridhar]

Especially with the new President who has a deep relationship with their army.

[shyamd]

shyam, getting rid of this 50 man PLA platoon and their post is a 5 minute job; 2 or 3 artillery shells or 1 LGB will blow it to bits. Question is, what will be the PLA response, and does India feel adequately prepared to deal with the escalation. Looks like PLA is testing GoI/IA resolve/preparedness. If I was in the PLA, I would interpret the IA response as weakness.

PLA and CPC leadership are united when it comes to messing with India; no point thinking/hoping otherwise.

No one wants to escalate into a war. They are leaking this news to pressure china's leadership - they know India has to respond. Its all nice us saying IA should show a tough response to assuage our egos. But practically speaking we don't want war and see no benefit of it and the decision that PRC make next will determine whether they want war or not. This isn't the first time this has happened over the last 30 or so years. Lets take a look at other neighbours - Tajikistan has been giving away land to the chinese and still there are transgressions by the chinese up to 20km! They have issues with Japan as we all know.

SSji - this will be a test for the new chinese leadership. One to watch closely

[eklavya]

Its all nice us saying IA should show a tough response to assuage our egos. But practically speaking we don't want war and see no benefit of it and the decision that PRC make next will determine whether they want war or not.

shyam, no ego issues at all, its GoI and Indian Army job to defend borders. Government leak to newspaper is telling public that China army is sitting 10 km inside India. I must admit it feels quite bad. NSA's IQ, judgment and experience of dealing with China is a minimum 100x mine, so we should let him do his job. But I worry that the reason GoI is fighting Chinese aggression with a press release is because Indian Army fears 1962 redux. I hope my fears are misplaced. Gen VKS wanted 1 Mountain Strike Corp. Make that 3, and put 1 in Ladakh and 2 in Arunachal.

[svinayak]

PLA and CPC leadership are united when it comes to messing with India; no point thinking/hoping otherwise.

No one wants to escalate into a war. They are leaking this news to pressure china's leadership - they know India has to respond. Its all nice us saying IA should show a tough response to assuage our egos. But practically speaking we don't want war and see no benefit of it and the decision that PRC make next will determine whether they want war or not. This isn't the first time this has happened over the last 30 or so years.

There is turf war between the CPC and PLA.
Any new leadership is tested in the foriegn policy and PLA forces the issue with incidents.

Indians have to figure out when it is a internal war inside PRC

[svinayak]

But I worry that the reason GoI is fighting Chinese aggression with a press release is because Indian Army fears 1962 redux. I hope my fears are misplaced. .

This is real funny.

[harbans]

We need a leader to revoke Indian acquisence of Chinese takeover of Tibet. We need to claim loudly and unequivocally and demand Kailash and Mansarover as part of India.

[RajeshA]

We need a leader to revoke Indian acquisence of Chinese takeover of Tibet. We need to claim loudly and unequivocally and demand Kailash and Mansarover as part of India.

We need to create many Pakistans around China - Myanmar, Vietnam, Philippines, Taiwan, Korea, Japan, Mongolia, Turkestan and Tibet. All should be trained, all should be armed.

China needs to be taken down by a pack of velociraptors.

India needs to prepare for this for the next 15 years.

[Victor]

DBO is itself about 10 km from the line of control. Does this mean the Chinese are sitting on the perimeter of the airstrip now?

Forget demanding Kailash, Mansarovar. We have not even protested maps posted by western govts that show the whole of J&K as outside India. Same weak knees that prevented our having posts 100 mt from LOC instead of 10 km.

[vic]

I think the best solution to Chinese intrusion is import import import and more import of defense equipment and off course Chinese equipment in all sectors of economy.

[eklavya]

DBO is itself about 10 km from the line of control. Does this mean the Chinese are sitting on the perimeter of the airstrip now?

It is a crazy situation, right? This source says the DBO airfield is 8 km from the LAC, whereas the Chinese are 10km inside India. As you know, DBO is also close to the Karakoram pass linking China and POK. Looks like DBO airfield has got the Chinese chaddis in a twist. See:

India takes the high ground against China
The Daulat Beg Oldi airfield is located a mere eight kilometers from Aksai Chin and the Sino-Indian Line of Actual Control in this sector. It overlooks China's Xinjiang province and more importantly, the strategic Karakoram Highway that links China with Pakistan. It is near the Karakoram Pass and lies east of the Siachen Glacier.

The airfield is "very critical to deal with incursions from China and Pakistan", Phunchok Stobdan, senior fellow at the Institute for Defense Studies and Analyses (IDSA) in New Delhi, told Asia Times Online. "Besides, in the event of war, its proximity to the Karakoram Highway will give India a significant edge."

The reopening of Daulat Beg Oldi airfield has ruffled feathers in Beijing. China is reported to have expressed its "unhappiness" over the Indian move. "This is not surprising given the airfield's proximity to Aksai Chin," said an Indian intelligence official.

[harbans]

India at one point of time has to come with a leader that makes this statement loud, clear and as official policy:

"Dealing with China on our Northern borders with Tibet since the 62 years has been an episode that has not yielded a result in peace. The assumption of our leaders Mr Nehru and Mr Atal Behari when they signed acknowledgement of Chinese rule over Tibet was based on a fervent hope and prayer that peace would prevail on our Northern boundaries, Tibetans would be allowed to preserve their traditions and cultural heritage and instances of violations on our northern fronts would cease. But our magnamity has been out of place. When we look back at history and see it was our overwhelming desire for peace at any cost with China at a very critical moment in our nationhood that made us sign these tragic documents. Even at the expense of giving away the holiest of holy places Dharmics in our country have considered: Kailash and Mansarover. We in the interest of peace would like to revoke our previous stance on Chinese takeover of Tibet and place it with our countries and peoples fervent wish that the Tibetan people be given the rightful UN mandated choice for self determination. We would also like to exercise our rightful ownership over lands in the Kailash and Mansarover region as that belonging to the nation of India. Towards that effect the Tibetan leadership under the HH Dalai Lama has acknowledged they have no reservations on India's claim to that region as it involves the abode of Shiva for millennia in Indian tradition and pilgrimages have been conducted ever since living memory. With this as Official policy as of ....... and the approval of the Parliament of India we do state that pursuit of the same shall be through Peaceful negotiations and good relations with the Republic of China. As of ----- of the -------- we do herebey advise all maps of the Indian Union will thus include Tibet as a free nation and the Kailash Mansarover region totalling 376,888 Sq kms as belonging to the Indian State"

[shyamd]

shyam, no ego issues at all, its GoI and Indian Army job to defend borders. Government leak to newspaper is telling public that China army is sitting 10 km inside India. I must admit it feels quite bad.

Of course - its a prestige issue but if the other side is crossing - what does it take to prevent it from happening? Lets say we gun these guys down ... and both medias start blowing the whole issue up forcing both govts to act to save national prestige. A war is not beneficial to anyone. So this leak is timed to bring international pressure - its now being circulated in almost every major national newspaper. So PRC knows GoI will have to respond. Ball is in their court.

But I worry that the reason GoI is fighting Chinese aggression with a press release is because Indian Army fears 1962 redux. I hope my fears are misplaced. Gen VKS wanted 1 Mountain Strike Corp. Make that 3, and put 1 in Ladakh and 2 in Arunachal.

Beg to differ. Both govt and Army have been fearing 1962 redux for last 3/4 decades - look at the speeches of sec establishment they keep talking about PRC. IA has been granted almost everything its asked for including MSC. Everything we are doing is for 2 front wars. The rhetoric in PRC is that they are getting scared at our force on our side!

We have had these encounters several times and we have managed it well. This one will probably pass off as well.

[Karan Dixit]

Chinese pushed in 10km and India pushed in only 300m in response. I do not think that is the right proportion. If they push in 10km, we should push in 30km. I think that would be the right response.

Karan, my reading of the news is that IA has built a post in Indian territory 300m from the Chinese post, which is 10km inside Indian territory. That makes the IA post ca 10km inside India, not 300m inside China. IA has not even built a post at where India perceives the border to be, because that post would be a minimum 10km from the PLA post, not 300m from the PLA post. I don't see how the IA response has done anything to demonstrate India's view of where the border lies.

Not clear what diplomatic or military means India is using to undo the aggression. Anyway, there must be some reason or reasoning (good or bad) for releasing the information to the media.

The situation is horrible. We have to start camping inside Chinese territory ourselves. We have to test their hospitality. If they are not nice to our camping team then we have to stop being nice to their camping team. I think this a reasonable approach.

[harbans]

The situation is horrible. We have to start camping inside Chinese our/ Tibetan territory ourselves.

Corrected! Definitely the Han has never been where he is now in history.

[SSridhar]

India-China are trying to resolve the 'Incursion' issue - The Hindu

India is 'trying' to resolve the issue. Why should the newspaper add 'China' in the headline ? If the border is not defined 'sharply' as the MEA claims, then why is not the IA occupying the territory on the 'other' side ?

Sources in the MEA admitted to problems in this area because the boundary with China is not sharply defined. As a result, both sides have differing perceptions of the Line of Actual Control, leading to these type of incidents. In all previous cases over the past two decades, these issues had been resolved peacefully through mechanisms in confidence-building agreements.

It was during their meeting on the sidelines of the BRICS meet in 2011, that Man Mohan Singh and Wen Jiabao decided to set up another mechanism on coordination and consultation on border affair. This mechanism is expected to comprehensively resolve each transgression incident and includes not only those by the armies but also para-military forces. On Jan. 17, 2012, the two sides signed ‘Working Mechanism for Consultation and Coordination on India-China Border Affairs’. Inaugurating this new mechanism in Beijing on March 06, 2012, the Chinese Foreign Minister, Yang Jeichi said that both countries wanted to enhance trust.

So, this is as good a time as any to test if the 'Joint Working mechanism' inaugurated with great expectations stands up to all that. GoI must realize that the Chinese are not interested in enhancing the 'trust' and all those words are for political consumption as the ground reality is different. When are we going to show some spine ?

[Karan Dixit]

^ I agree. This "border is ill defined" line is getting old. It makes anyone who utters it look like an idiot.

[Karan Dixit]

The situation is horrible. We have to start camping inside Chinese our/ Tibetan territory ourselves.

Corrected! Definitely the Han has never been where he is now in history.

I apologize for referring Tibet as a Chinese territory.

[eklavya]

If the border is not "sharp", then the IA should be positioned in strength at where we believe the border to be. Just like we have done on the Saltoro range to the west of DBO.

Let's see where this so called mechanism gets us. Looks like the Chinese may have outsmarted the NSA.

India downplays Chinese incursion

NEW DELHI: The government reacted cautiously to reports about the latest Chinese incursion into Ladakh, where Beijing is said to have erected tents 10 km into Indian territory, by recalling that the two countries have varying perceptions of the Line of Actual Control (LAC). Senior government sources said that the matter has been taken up with the Chinese through the working mechanism for consultation and coordination between the two nations for border affairs.

"This is an area where there have been differing perceptions of the Line of Actual Control. Incidents do occur and are resolved peacefully on the basis of bilateral agreements which exist and mechanisms provided for in these agreements," said a government source.

"Both sides are in touch on this availing the working mechanism for consultation and coordination on India-China border affairs which is headed by joint secretary (East Asia) in the ministry of external affairs and the director general border affairs of the Chinese ministry of foreign affairs. We are confident that the current incident too will also be peacefully resolved on this basis," he added.

A platoon-strength contingent of China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) came 10 km inside the Indian territory in Burthe in DBO (Daulat Beg Oldi) sector, which is at an altitude of about 17,000 feet, on the night of April 15 and established a tented post there, according to highly-placed sources that said a PLA platoon usually consists of around 50 men.

A brainchild of former Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, the working mechanism was finalized last year at the conclusion of the 15th meeting of the Special Representatives (SR) on the boundary question between national security adviser Shiv Shankar Menon and Chinese state councillor Dai Bingguo.

Under the mechanism, the two sides "undertake other tasks that are mutually agreed upon by the two sides but will not discuss resolution of the boundary question or affect the Special Representatives mechanism."

[rohitvats]

It is a crazy situation, right? This source says the DBO airfield is 8 km from the LAC, whereas the Chinese are 10km inside India. As you know, DBO is also close to the Karakoram pass linking China and POK. Looks like DBO airfield has got the Chinese chaddis in a twist. <SNIP>

That news report is way off the mark. A little primer on the geography in the area is in order.

- DBO/Daulat Beg Oldi is also known as Sub-Sector North(SSN) in the army parlance.
- This is the only portion of the territory under Indian control which is part of the Aksai Chin plateau.
- It is the base for climb to Karakorum Pass/KK Pass.
- Now, this KK Pass has nothing to do with POK or the Chinese-Pakistan highway (KK Highway). The KK Highway is due west and passes through the POK. It crosses the Kunjerab Pass on the POK/China border.
- KK Pass sits on an ancient caravan route from Ladakh to Yarkand.

Cursor on the map linked below is centered on KK Pass.

http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=35.51 ... 5&z=11&m=h

The yellow trace that you see from the KK Pass going in south-east direction terminates at DBO nullah...if you zoom here, you'll see that someone has actually marked Indian position.

From a military stand-point, we're at a severe disadvantage here.We have no depth in the area and our back is literally to the mountain wall due west. The road communication is very tenuous from our part. For PLA, there is good surface connectivity and the lay of the land is even. It can bring on troops and reinforcement pretty quickly. No wonder, it chose this area for this level of incursion.

[eklavya]

Thanks Rohit. Map is very helpful. What do you see as India's military options? Assume entire IAF transport, helicopter (and fighter) fleet is available for the operation.

[shyamd]

Was the last major Chinese incursion in 2003 during ABVs trip to PRC? This is when 10 member IB/SSB team were disarmed and interrogated and eventually released 14km inside our territory?