Excellent coverage vis-à-vis the HS-748.
Where is the figure of 60 tonnes for the IL-76 from? The figure I have seen is around 47 tonnes. The figure for the A400M also seems high. Should be 37 tonnes not 47.drnayar wrote: ↑18 Sep 2023 22:15 Wonder how the IAF is looking to expand its airlift capabilities., are they looking at
C 295 -> 7 to 9 tons ;
C 130J -> ~ 19 tons
IL 76 -> 60 tons
God knows how long the IL 76 can soldier on with parts availability in question !
A400 -> 47 tons payload does not look like the optimum replacement ? , given the cost and payload capability IAF would need more numbers of a significantly lesser capable aircraft compared to IL 76
What aircraft would fill in the higher end strategic lift capability for the IAF ?
Its not going to do any STOL in himalayas, considering its service ceiling is only 30K feet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_ ... t_aircraftnachiket wrote: ↑18 Sep 2023 23:07Where is the figure of 60 tonnes for the IL-76 from? The figure I have seen is around 47 tonnes. The figure for the A400M also seems high. Should be 37 tonnes not 47.drnayar wrote: ↑18 Sep 2023 22:15 Wonder how the IAF is looking to expand its airlift capabilities., are they looking at
C 295 -> 7 to 9 tons ;
C 130J -> ~ 19 tons
IL 76 -> 60 tons
God knows how long the IL 76 can soldier on with parts availability in question !
A400 -> 47 tons payload does not look like the optimum replacement ? , given the cost and payload capability IAF would need more numbers of a significantly lesser capable aircraft compared to IL 76
What aircraft would fill in the higher end strategic lift capability for the IAF ?
Maybe the IAF will now consider the C-5 Galaxy.. when is that line shutting downRakesh wrote: ↑19 Sep 2023 00:01...
What we should have done is order more C-17 Globemasters when the line was open. But that would mean easy and we don't like to do easy things. Only when we do complicated (i.e. catch the bull by the tail) things, will our decision makers consider it time & money well invested
I am talking about the big big boysPratyush wrote: ↑20 Sep 2023 12:31 No need to do that.
The next transport aircraft to be procured for the IAF can either be the A400 or the C 290. They are both very capable aircrafts. As many as 80 aircraft are to be procured in this program.
Plus, the IAF is also planning to replace the An32 from 2030 onwards.
This basically means that India will have an extremely capable airlift capacity going forward.
You mean C 390 ?Pratyush wrote: ↑20 Sep 2023 12:31 No need to do that.
The next transport aircraft to be procured for the IAF can either be the A400 or the C 290. They are both very capable aircrafts. As many as 80 aircraft are to be procured in this program.
Plus, the IAF is also planning to replace the An32 from 2030 onwards.
This basically means that India will have an extremely capable airlift capacity going forward.
viewtopic.php?p=2601565#p2601565
Then guys we have a problem here in the making., as the services move to theatre commands ., there will be requirements for global strategic reach .. didn't want to mention the Chinese airlift capability growing exponentially by fielding its Y20s [ ~66 tons over 7800km : wiki]
Pratyush wrote: ↑20 Sep 2023 16:24 Perhaps, Nither the Indian Army nor the IAF foresee a situation where they will need the capacity that a very large airlifter provides.
They are confident of the forward deployed forces and prepositioned materials.
Along with the adequacy of the road network to provide reinforcement and replenishment of stocks.
Actually, post-Galwan, we airlifted T90s to Ladakh using C17.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has delivered additional firepower to the Indian Army in the form of dozens of tanks and armoured vehicles in recent days using transporter aircraft like Boeing C-17 Globemaster-IIIs and Ilyushin IL-76,
Behind massive build-up at LAC is the IAF’s never-seen-before airlift capabilityAs per the report, the transport aircraft carried out multiple sorties from bases like Chandigarh carrying additional tanks and armoured vehicles to provide a firepower boost to the Indian Army.
This includes new T-90 tanks deployed in the Western Sector. Incidentally, it is the first time since 1962 that armoured tanks have been urgently airlifted to Ladakh.
he most significant aspect of the air effort perhaps is airlifting of India’s newest and most powerful tanks, the T-90, which now spearhead the Army’s strike formations, from the plains to Ladakh. Chinese deployment across the LAC, including concentrations in depth, reportedly includes a mix of light and heavy tanks, including new variants.
Besides through air, heavy induction has also been taken through the Srinagar-Leh and Manali-Leh road axis.
According to an IAF officer, airlifting the T-90 was possible due to the payload capacity of the C-17, which is about 77 tonnes. A T-90 weighs about 46 tonnes, which is more than the capacity of the IL-76, which can airlift about 45 tonnes. The operating environment of high-altitude airfields like Leh further restricts the load that can be carried.
So, the takeaways ...The Army had three regiments of the older T-72 tanks, which weigh around 40 tonnes, deployed in this sector. Many of these tanks, along with BMP-2 mechanised combat vehicles, have been airlifted to Ladakh by the IL-76 since the early 1990s. Given the weight and length of the tractor-trailer, it is not practical to negotiate the high mountain passes, hairpin bends and narrow stretches that lie on the road link from the mainland to Ladakh. Tank transporters can only be used on some road stretches within Ladakh.
+1fanne wrote: ↑20 Sep 2023 21:33 sorry without satire let me make my case - We need heavy lift capability - in very high numbers. These are all IL-76 ++ capacity aircraft (and associated range).
...
Either way you cut it, a desi effort is needed. But we are very very far behind, we can barely make very light transport planes, forget medium or heavy.
You misunderstood the point. What I meant was simply that indigenous engine development continues to be the most challenging aspect as compared to the other constituents.prashantsharma wrote: ↑21 Sep 2023 09:09 Let's get a simple Saras right before asserting that structure, internals, controls etc for a heavy airlifter can be done...
It's very hard to get a good economical airliner from a cargo jet, especially a military one. The technologies and knowledge and supply chain can be leveraged to develop one from the other, yes, but cannot be from the same design. The requirements are too different between them.fanne wrote: ↑20 Sep 2023 21:33 sorry without satire let me make my case - We need heavy lift capability - in very high numbers. These are all IL-76 ++ capacity aircraft (and associated range). If you look at the number, we should try indigenous effort.
1. Transportation - some 30-40 numbers ( We have 11 C-17 towards it and should go for IL-76 upgrade, new engines and avionics or get new planes)
2. Refueler - IAF some 15 + 6 IN (for optimal utilization, these can also double as transport plane)
3. AWACS - 15
4. EW AND SIGNIT -6
5. Airborne command and control - 6
7. If laser takes off, laser based anti-ballistic systems -20-30
8. Anti SUB - 30-40 (Japan has near 100)
9. VIP transport - 3
10. Civilian Airlines - 100s
Either way you cut it, a desi effort is needed. But we are very very far behind, we can barely make very light transport planes, forget medium or heavy.
And not just from the outside...Rakesh wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023 21:14 ...
https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1705 ... 49367?s=20 ---> When the C-17 looks small.
...
Despite a long history of licence-building transport aircraft, India has failed to leverage its buying power. The induction and production of the C295 might finally buck that trend.
