Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 2012

[VikramS]

http://www.dawn.com/2012/02/18/stick-it ... tanis.html

It seems UnFair is now rubbing off the CongressMen in not so nice ways.
She is also butting head with Ralph Peters, calling him a nut.

[Rahul M]

kindly continue the hypothetical pakistan discussion to 'managing pakistan's failure' thread.

[Rangudu]

Has anyone read this report yet?

This sounds like one of those well researched take downs of TSP's hate filled education "curriculum".

[pgbhat]

Keeping mum about the Punjabi Taliban ---- Khalid Ahmed

I was surprised a fortnight ago to receive a note from Lahore’s General Post Office saying I had imported a banned book which the Post Office had duly confiscated. The book was Punjabi Taliban by Mujahid Hussain (Pentagon Press, India, 2011) which is available in Pakistan too and advertised by a Karachi bookseller on the internet.

.... South Punjab contains 13 districts with a population of 27 million: Bahawalnagar, Bahawalpur, Bhakkar, DG Khan, Jhang, Khanewal, Layyah, Lodhran, Multan, Muzaffargarh, Rahim Yar Khan, Rajanpur, and Vehari.

Ex-editor Shireen Mazari who hails from DG Khan in south Punjab wrote in The News (April 29, 2009) “Why military action is not the answer” about the dominance of jihadi madrassas in DG Khan, significantly pointing to the “foreign funding” they were receiving: “In DG Khan, there are 185 registered madrassas of which 90 are Deobandi (with a total of 324 teachers), 84 are Barelvi (with a total of 212 teachers), six are Ahle Hadith (107 teachers) and five are Fiqh-e-Jafaria (10 teachers)”.

She continued: “Of the Deobandi madrassas, Jamia Ataul-Ulum, with 200 boarders and 20 day-students ranging from 5-25 years, and eight teachers, receives donations from Kuwait. Jamia Darul Rehmania offers education up to class eight and has 350 boarders plus 230 day-students and 28 teachers…The total number of Deobandi madrassa students in the DG Khan district is 11,535. Interestingly, in this category, it is the large madrassas… linked to the JUI… that receive foreign funding… almost solely from Kuwait”.

Bahawalpur division is dominated by the Jaish-e-Muhammad and the Sipah-e-Sahaba. The other two forces in the territory, the feudals and the state, have developed a modus vivendi with them, the latter frequently acting as a bodyguard threatening anyone trying to investigate their activities. The districts have supplied nearly 5,000 warriors to the Taliban’s war in Afghanistan, Waziristan and Swat.

The mastermind of the Mumbai attack Hamid Amin belonged to Rahim Yar Khan. In Bahawalpur, thousands have gone to join the war in the Tribal Areas from Madrassa Usman-o-Ali established by Masood Azhar.

Former governor Salmaan Taseer’s son was kidnapped from Lahore allegedly by Punjabi Taliban and taken to North Waziristan and is being reportedly kept — right in front of the Haqqani camp — by them and their Uzbek cohorts.

[symontk]

My few cents..

The latest US move for Baluch is also in keeping with Iran issue

1. US thinks that one Baluch is out of Pak control, India might soften its hard support approach to Iran (But supply of Iran oil to India still remains, but point 5 should take care of that. Point 5 is long term however)

2. For the short term it gives US an additional control of encircling Iran for staging troops, aircrafts and ships

3. A free or Baluchistan under Oman gives US a good control over straits of Hormuz. For India, its friendly relations with Oman is an immense help

4. There is a high possibility that Pakis will encourage pirates in the region to forestall India's advantages

5. A free Baluchistan or one under Oman could be later used to get additional land from Iran (Sistan Baluchistan province of Iran) so as to weaken Iran. Once Sistan Baluchistan is out of Iran, India does not have much use of original Iran as oil supplies and border with Pakistan will be of Baluchistan

For India once Baluch problem is out in the open, Kashmir would be totally forgotten by Pakis. They will have a new wound (Bangladesh is quite far away literally). It will be a cold peace between India and Pakistan

India will be more secure once NWFP is also given to Afghanistan or made a new country

[shiv]

The US cannot hold Baluchistan while antagonizing the Pakistan army. Baluch freedom is a strawman, a negotiating tactic to get the Pakistan army to shift its position and accommodate the US a bit.

I think it is a useful model to look at the US and the Pakistan army as two hardened criminals with a long history of competitive engagement where they both worked together not out of love but sheer selfish gain. Mafia gang X and gang Y cooperate only because they hate cop Z.

Baluchis are in deep shit if the US starts talking of their freedom because they are now seen as a negotiating tool. There is no dharma or love of freedom for Baluchis when the US starts talking about it. If you look at this from the Baluchi viewpoint you see how hopeless their cause becomes if they trust the US. The US can ditch them any second for the "larger" target of getting the Pakistan army to do their job. Only a "natural" trust of the US as "honest car salesman" can make anyone imagine that there is anything good or positive for Baluchis here. it may not be positive for the Pakistan army, but that is their problem. There is nothing for India in this ploy.

[member_21708]

ISI employed architect for bin Laden compound: report

Washington, Feb 18, 2012, (PTI): An architect regularly employed by the ISI worked on the compound in which Osama bin Laden sheltered for years in Abbottabad and the slain al Qaeda chief communicated regularly with LeT from his hideout, a media report said today.

Though the original property records for the compound near the elite Pakistan Military Academy have disappeared, the architect who worked on the structure was regularly employed by the ISI, Washington Post columnist David Ignatius quoted an intelligence source as saying.

The architect reportedly was told that a "highly placed VIP" was coming to the compound, Ignatius wrote in a column posted on the daily's website.

Though materials taken from the compound after bin Laden was killed by US Special Forces in May last year did not show direct links with top Pakistani officials, US analysts "have found evidence that the al Qaeda chief communicated" with Mullah Mohammad Omar, leader of the Afghan Taliban, and with the Lashkar-e-Taiba, Ignatious wrote.

"The ISI is thought to monitor both groups closely; how did the messages slip through the net?" he questioned. The columnist said any probe on bin Laden's presence in Pakistan should focus on several issues, including how the al Qaeda chief came to Abbottabad in 2005 and what Pakistani officials knew about his whereabouts.

Current army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani was ISI chief at the time, but the "dominant figure was President Pervez Musharraf, the former army chief", the columnist wrote.

The commander of the PMA at Abbottabad from 2006 was Lt Gen Nadeem Taj, who succeeded Kayani as head of the ISI in 2007. Ignatius referred to former ISI chief Gen Ziauddin Butt's claim that the Abbottabad compound was used by Intelligence Bureau and noted that a report in the Pakistani press in December had quoted Butt as saying that bin Laden's stay at Abbottabad was arranged by Brig Ijaz Shah, head of the Intelligence Bureau during 2004-08, on Musharraf's orders.

He further referred to the rumour that bin Laden was suffering from kidney failure and required dialysis and said this canard was "repeated for years, notably by Musharraf".CIA analysts were dubious and no dialysis machines were found at Abbottabad.

"So was this a deliberate piece of misinformation? And what about bin Laden's claim in November 2001 to Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir that he had nuclear and chemical weapons? Was that a Pakistan-facilitated attempt to promote what bin Laden called his 'deterrent' against a US reprisal attack?" he wrote.

Pakistan's civilian and military leaders have denied reports that they were aware of bin Laden's presence in the country. A judicial commission is currently investigating the matter.

Experts and US officials have contended that it would not have been possible for bin Laden to live for so long in a garrison town without some support from elements in Pakistan's security establishment.

Ignatius wrote that US officials had said "they don't have any evidence that Kayani or other top Pakistani officials knew of bin Laden's presence before the May 2 raid that killed the al Qaeda leader. This assessment is based on the review of materials taken from bin Laden's compound, plus the reactions of Kayani and other officials the night of the raid".

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/228 ... laden.html

[member_21708]

Pak Presidency faces problem of 'wild boars'

Islamabad: The fortified walls of Pakistan's presidency have failed to keep out a group of wild boars, whose frequent intrusions into the sprawling grounds of Asif Ali Zardari's official residence are proving irksome for caretakers and residents.

The boars were freely entering the presidency despite foolproof security arrangements, including fencing and other preventive measures, an unnamed official was quoted as saying by the Dawn newspaper today.

The boars enter the presidency from the Margalla Hills National Park located behind it.

The animals enter the grounds mostly through "nullahs and manholes", a security official said.

"Conventional methods" are used to kill the boars, whose population is "growing with every passing day", he said.

Officials of the Capital Development Authority too said they were taking steps to restrict the movement of the boars within the presidency, which is spread over 471 acres, half of it covered by trees and bushes that provide a safe hideout for the fast breeding animals.

CDA spokesman Ramzan Sajid said the boars were being killed by feeding them wheat grains dipped in poison. This, he said, was the "best way to kill them".

The CDA also issues free hunting licences for wild boars, Sajid said.

Another official said the boars breed at a "very fast pace" and their population in jungles close to the presidency may be in the hundreds.

The biggest problem is limiting the movement of the boars into the highly protected presidency, he said.

The official insisted that the wild boars were a problem for the whole of Islamabad.

Boars are a common sight in some parts of the city, especially those located at the foothills of the Margallas, at night and can be seen searching for food in large groups.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/pak ... 59187.html

[ramana]

Shiv and others we have this thread for your line of thoughts:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... f=1&t=5843

US and PRC role in TSP

[Altair]

The US cannot hold Baluchistan while antagonizing the Pakistan army. Baluch freedom is a strawman, a negotiating tactic to get the Pakistan army to shift its position and accommodate the US a bit.
The US can ditch them any second for the "larger" target of getting the Pakistan army to do their job. Only a "natural" trust of the US as "honest car salesman" can make anyone imagine that there is anything good or positive for Baluchis here. it may not be positive for the Pakistan army, but that is their problem. There is nothing for India in this ploy.

shiv
What you say could be true. But people in Baluchistan are doing a very thorough job of reaching out to US Congressmen,Representatives, Diplomats, Ambassadors, UN, etc through Emails, Phones etc. There is a quantifiable effort here. I have mentioned about my effort on Baluchistan before on this forum. Your assessment discounts all the effort of the people who are doing a very thorough and professional job.
The effort may be 0.01% of what is needed for the final objective but it is definitely measurable.
The resolution tabled is in part a result of 1000's of man hours of campaign effort to reach the people who tabled it. I see it as a quantifiable result of the effort.
Altair

[Patni]

Pakistan bomb kills six members of tribal militia

(AFP) – 1 hour ago
PESHAWAR, Pakistan — A bomb blast in Pakistan's troubled northwest has killed six members of a tribal militia set up to combat militants, and wounded three others, according to an official.
The bomb, in the lawless Khyber tribal district on the Afghan border, was planted by local militant group Lashkar-e-Islam, which is led by warlord Mangal Bagh, said local government official Khalid Mumtaz.
"It was a planted bomb and was detonated when the anti-militiamen reached a private checkpoint" run by the militants, who had deserted the checkpoint, Mumtaz told AFP.
Islamist bombers and gunmen have killed more than 4,800 people across Pakistan since government troops raided an extremist mosque in Islamabad in July 2007.

The quest for being more pious then lesser ones going on in land of pure. The planted bomb as a trap in above report comes after public warnings from Mangal Bagh, who is upset that FC didnt warn him in advance when they started playing lets clean up militants on his home pitch!

Important heights captured from LI: FC

PESHAWAR: The Lashkar-e-Islam (LI), a militant­ organisation based in Bara subdivision of Khyber Agency, has suffered a string of setbacks in coordinated attacks in areas bordering the remote Tirah valley, officials said on Saturday.

Inspector General Frontier Corps Maj Gen Nadir Zeb said the forces were able to seize major heights in Meera Sar, Lawatta, Lakaro and Inzar, successfully cutting off the plains of Bara subdivision from Tirah valley.

“There was heavy fighting and we lost some men, but in the end we took control of the heights,” the IGFC said.

Backed by gunship helicopters, soldiers from the Pakistan Army, the Frontier Corps and a tribal Lashkar of Zakhakhel and its sub-tribe of Ziauddin launched an all-out attack on the LI, leading to some heavy fighting.

Sources said six men of the tribal Lashkar were killed and seven wounded, while the security forces also lost seven soldiers. Four of these soldiers were killed when they hit a landmine, sources said.

The tribal Lashkar also launched an attack and captured an LI base camp at Astana, the sources said.

Officials said the LI was contemplating a counter-attack to recapture the Astana camp but arrangements were in place to face off the enemy.

This was the first time in seven years that the security forces entered this area and captured the heights that lay astride the way to the remote Tirah valley on the border with Afghanistan.

Officials said the operation was in line with the strategy to re-establish the government’s writ in Bara, which had remained under a state of curfew for over two years now, flush out the LI from the area and cut off its links with Tirah that is now home to its chief Mangal Bagh.

Also, the officials said, the operation would compliment the security forces’ push in Orakzai adjoining Tirah.

Officials say the fleeing militants towards Orakzai could head to Tirah and if Bara was not brought under control, they could pose serious security threat to the adjacent Peshawar.

“Tirah has been totally cut-off. The LI men will no longer have the luxury of riding bikes, pick-up trucks and mules,” said Political Agent Motahir Zeb. “The forces have done a commendable job and it must be acknowledged,” he said.

He said the Akhakhel clan was able to wrestle the control of Inzari from the LI. “This is a reversal of fortunes for the LI,” he said, adding that his administration was expecting some counter-attacks from the militant organisations.

The administration in Peshawar has been told to remain on high alert in the face of threats from LI chief Mangal Bagh to launch revenge attacks.

Sources said Mangal Bagh had been on his FM broadcast ever since, threatening revenge attacks and complaining that the security forces’ action was unexpected. What effect the latest achievements will have on Bara itself remains to be seen but the political agent said this would embolden the Afridi clans inhabiting Bara plain to switch sides and stand firmly with the government and also enable his administration to rid the area of LI influence.

[Suppiah]

Baluchis are in deep shit if the US starts talking of their freedom because they are now seen as a negotiating tool.

Unkil may find the genie hard to put back in bottle, once opened. Anyway the Baloch are in deep sh.t today, so a temporary breath of fresh air, whatever be the Unkils' reasons, is likely to be welcome. It makes their cause gain media visibility and perhaps valuable $$4 and equipment to take on the TSPA. India too can contribute.

[chetak]

Baluchis are in deep shit if the US starts talking of their freedom because they are now seen as a negotiating tool.

Unkil may find the genie hard to put back in bottle, once opened. Anyway the Baloch are in deep sh.t today, so a temporary breath of fresh air, whatever be the Unkils' reasons, is likely to be welcome. It makes their cause gain media visibility and perhaps valuable $$4 and equipment to take on the TSPA. India too can contribute.

We should support the baluchis in the exact same language that the pakis use for cashmere.......

Prime Minister MMS(?) has said that India(?), as a responsible country and nuclear power, aspires to use responsible, diplomatic measures to resolve the long-standing Baluchistan(?) dispute.

“We are committed to continue moral, political and diplomatic support to the baluchis. The entire nation, including all political parties, is united over the cause.”

Kick the f(kr$s right in the b@((s like they have been doing to us all these years

[Arav]

http://www.dawn.com/2012/02/19/parachin ... to-41.html

PARACHINAR: The death toll from Friday’s suicide blast and subsequent firing by security forces on protesters in Parachinar rose to 41 on Saturday.

They said there was no suicide attack when the town was in the control of Shia volunteers. But as soon as security forces took control of the area and set up bunkers and security posts such incidents started taking place, they alleged.

[abhijitm]

Sunday IED dispatched 6

The bomb, in the lawless Khyber tribal district on the Afghan border, was planted by local militant group Lashkar-e-Islam, which is led by warlord Mangal Bagh, said local government official Khalid Mumtaz.

Daku Mangal (why Hindu name?) is active again!

[CRamS]

NYT editorial on AfPak endgame with special metnion of TSP role

DEALING WITH PAKISTAN Islamabad’s continued collusion with the Taliban and other extremist groups is the biggest threat to Afghanistan’s long-term stability. A decade after the Bush administration ordered them to pick sides, the Pakistanis are still cynically playing all sides.

Billions in aid have not changed their thinking. Nor has the recent suspension of some of that aid. Nor has the fact that the extremists seem nearly as eager to bring down Pakistan’s government. The Army and intelligence services are still determined to use the extremists as proxies in their endless competition with India.

The fact that Pakistan did not stop the Taliban from agreeing to negotiations with Washington may be a rare positive sign. But with Islamabad there are never any guarantees. As frustrating as it is, the administration must keep trying to cajole and pressure Pakistan into cooperating. The United States really has no choice, not least because a collapse in Pakistan — with 100 plus nuclear weapons — would be even more disastrous than a collapse in Kabul.

The bolded part is pushed as a premise based on which every other decision is made. But its a false premise. There is nothing sacrosanct about collapse of TSP either on Afghanistan or India or the world at large. What is left unsaid however, is that a collapse of TSP will be disastrous for US and its lackeys as a pliant "useful" geo-political terrorist tool to among other things contain India. This must not be forgotten and emphasized, at least by Indian policy makers, so this false premise can be countered with an India-centric narrative.

[Altair]

NYT editorial on AfPak endgame with special metnion of TSP role

The United States really has no choice, not least because a collapse in Pakistan — with 100 plus nuclear weapons — would be even more disastrous than a collapse in Kabul. [/b]

How many Nuclear Weapons did USSR have when it collapsed?

[Charlie]

MQM Mohtarmas singing and dancing in public "Jalsa". Hai Allah Sri Digvijay Singh Ji Kya kahenge: Yeh Toh “nachniyon ki party” (a party of dancers) Hai

[Kamboja]

Re: Baluch independence, I have a question for Altair and others who know the facts on the ground.

My impression was that the Baluch are almost a minority in their own province -- the wiki article on Baluchistan has the Baluch-speaking population at 40%, Pashtu-speaking at 40%, and Brahui-speaking at 20%. So native Baluch are an absolute minority (but a relative majority), and have equal numbers to Pashtuns.

Seems to me that an independent Baluch state is rendered far less feasible given these demographics? Does this factor into discussions about the possibility of a free Baluchistan?

[Satya_anveshi]

For those who are keeping track of ground movement against ISI over Lal Masjid "associated" detainees.

A lot of rolling eyes. I have to take back some credit given to Musharraf for initiating Lal Masjid ops..looks like it would have been better off running that soosai training center in the heart of slamabad for a bit longer till the job of transforming pakistan to smokistan was nicely done.

11 detainees of Adiala jail are terrorists: Security officials

The security officials say the 11 detainees were involved in terror attacks against security agencies, including an attack on ISI bus near Hamza camp, killing 28 people and a rocket attack on Kamra Aeronautical Complex in 2008 .

“Media should meet the families of those 28 people killed in bus attack and give news about them,” the officials told media.

The security officials claimed that Dr Niaz Ahmed Saqib was one the 11 detainees and was involved in perpetrating attack on the ISI.

They said Dr Saqib along with Umar Farooq, a nephew of Lal Mosque’s clerics Ghazi brothers, brought a suicide bomber from Wana area of Waziristan to target the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) .

Shafiqur Rehman met Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) then chief Baitullah Mehsud and brought two suicide bombers who carried out attacks on November 24, 2007, they added.

They said a detainee Amir Khan who had been incarcerated a jail of Rashid Dostam , an Afghan warlord for three years, came back to Pakistan and supplied arms and ammunition into the Lal Masjid and also was an accomplice of Dr Saqib in launching attack on the ISI.
According to the security official three brothers Abdul Majid, Abdul Saboor and Abdul Basit belonged to Kohat and assisted terrorists in purchasing vehicles for launching attacks. They said that Abdul Saboor died during treatment in a Peshawar hospital .

The security officials told that detainees Muhammad Shafiq and Saeed Arab Khan, who had received military training in Afghanistan, were also involved in Kamra attack.

[RajeshA]

Re: Baluch independence, I have a question for Altair and others who know the facts on the ground.

My impression was that the Baluch are almost a minority in their own province -- the wiki article on Baluchistan has the Baluch-speaking population at 40%, Pashtu-speaking at 40%, and Brahui-speaking at 20%. So native Baluch are an absolute minority (but a relative majority), and have equal numbers to Pashtuns.

Seems to me that an independent Baluch state is rendered far less feasible given these demographics? Does this factor into discussions about the possibility of a free Baluchistan?

Kamboja ji,
In the Northeast of Baluchistan are mostly Pushtun. In Quetta too. But in the more strategic part of Baluchistan - the whole coast there are mostly Baluch and Brahui.

The state can be partitioned easily.

[Rangudu]

It's funny to see the word 'jalsa' used for the rallies in TSP. As SSridhar and others with colloquial Tamil knowledge may know, 'jalsa' in Tamil means something totally different, as in what happens between Unkil and TSPA Jernails behind closed doors

[JohnTitor]

How many Nuclear Weapons did USSR have when it collapsed?

Much as I agree with where you are going with your argument, USSR wasn't filled with loonies who blew themselves up at the sight of of a 'kafir' (a definition that is so liquid you choose your target first then fit the label).

[Nandu]

How many Nuclear Weapons did USSR have when it collapsed?

Much as I agree with where you are going with your argument, USSR wasn't filled with loonies who blew themselves up at the sight of of a 'kafir' (a definition that is so liquid you choose your target first then fit the label).

Doesn't matter. It can be managed. TSP shouldn't be allowed to use the fear of nukes falling into the hands of loonies, to force the world to keep propping them up.

[Kamboja]

Thanks RajeshAji, actually another wiki has a map of Balochistan by ethnicity that corroborates your point.


And the infamous Ralph Peters map that caused many a browning of Paki pants seems to envision a similar outline for its free Balochistan.

I am left wondering about something though -- obviously a free Balochistan would distract the Pakjabis, give impetus to Sindhi and Pashtun nationalism etc., all of which is good and desirable. However, when we discuss the advantages of a free Balochistan we often mention its utility in providing a land route to Afghanistan and C Asia that bypasses the Pakjabis and Paki-pasand Pashtuns. Looking at this map though, it doesn't seem as though such a route would be viable -- the route to Afghanistan would still have to pass through Paki/Pashtun territory, or through Iran as it does today.

Maybe this is already well-understood and I am onlee understanding this belatedly. But a free Balochistan in this shape (i.e. along the coast and not contiguous with Afghanistan) wouldn't be enough on its own to secure access to Central Asia. Perhaps with an independent Pashtunistan that is neutral/friendly to India... but that is another whole challenge.

[shiv]

How many Nuclear Weapons did USSR have when it collapsed?

Much as I agree with where you are going with your argument, USSR wasn't filled with loonies who blew themselves up at the sight of of a 'kafir' (a definition that is so liquid you choose your target first then fit the label).

my response here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 5#p1245455

[Philip]

I think that if the Baluchis want to be taken seriously as candidates for support for independence,,then they must start ramping up their actions against the TSP,especially in the areas where they predominate.Gwadar,where the Sino-Pak combine means to deprive them of their main major port,should be one place where the Baluchi resistance can target,the other being Karachi and Lahore-to show the TSP and the globe that they can strike anywhere."Nothing ventured,nothing gained".

[Virupaksha]

I think that if the Baluchis want to be taken seriously as candidates for support for independence,,then they must start ramping up their actions against the TSP,especially in the areas where they predominate.Gwadar,where the Sino-Pak combine means to deprive them of their main major port,should be one place where the Baluchi resistance can target,the other being Karachi and Lahore-to show the TSP and the globe that they can strike anywhere."Nothing ventured,nothing gained".

Philip,
Gwadar is not a "major" port. In its 4 years of existence, gwadar hosted just one or two ships. Both of them were specifically diverted by the govt of Pakistan from Karachi. Nothing except half constructed empty buildings in gwadar, all manned by punjabis and where balochis are kept out. There is nothing to target in gwadar.

[shiv]

Maybe this is already well-understood and I am onlee understanding this belatedly. But a free Balochistan in this shape (i.e. along the coast and not contiguous with Afghanistan) wouldn't be enough on its own to secure access to Central Asia. Perhaps with an independent Pashtunistan that is neutral/friendly to India... but that is another whole challenge.

Kamboja I am in agreement with you.

There appear to be two versions of a suitable "model future" for Pakistan being mooted at least on BRF and I am currently taking one of those sides.

1. One is the Balkanization model, where Pakistan gets split up into Baluchistan, Pakhtunistan and a rump Pakjab
2. The other is the "Intact Pakistan" model.

Here are my views and why I currently support the intact Pakistan model.

Although counties have been sliced neatly in the past, slicing countries is messy business leading to a lot of strife, bloodshed and enmity that can last for centuries. Even if you say that Pakistan is not a country but a Pakjabi dominated controlling territory, the major problem with Baluchistan is that it is mostly hostile terrain and sparse population. Pakhtunistan will be landlocked and controlled by the same Pakjabi army.

If the Pakjabi army and the US retain their current relationship they can pretty much guide the shape of those areas even if some areas are split away. A United Pakjab (90 million plus) controlling Karachi and allied with the USA would be a very dangerous thing for anyone else in the area. A Pakjabi army that "cedes" Gilgit to China could "cede" parts of Baluchistan near the Iran border to the USA and then earn the US's eternal gratitude and support against India.

In my view it is very important to neutralise US influence on India exerted via Pakistan as we reduce the Pakistani threat. The US is not a benign benevolent power. It is a nasty grabbing monster.

An intact Pakistan where we attempt to pacify Pakjab and protect the concept of Pakistan for the sake of historic unity of the subcontinent can be pulled off if the cards are played well. Baluchis and Pashtuns can get their due as Pakistan is pacified. I want india to have a reduced threat from the Pakjabi army which is the main ally of the USA. I want India to have land access to Baluchistan, Iran and Afghanistan via Pakjab. US meddling and ability to meddle needs to be reduced, not increased. Indians do not need to plan for something that benefits the US more and India less in the name of Baluchi freedom.

[shiv]

Rhetorical questions:

If the Pakistani army is

• 1. Attacking Bauchis
  2. Attacking some Pashtuns/Afghans
  3. Arranging attacks on India
  4. Providing transit and basing facilities for the US
  5. Mainly composed of Pakjabis
  6. Getting more than 50% of US aid

Then my questions are:

• Is the US an ally of the whole of Pakistan or just the Pakistan army?
• Does the US benefit all of Pakistan or just Pakjab?
  

[Suppiah]

Kamboja, forgive my geograhpical challenge, but the map shown above seems to show Baluchistan with Afghan border? What's the issue?

[Kamboja]

Kamboja, forgive my geograhpical challenge, but the map shown above seems to show Baluchistan with Afghan border? What's the issue?

Suppiahji, I should have been clearer - what I meant is that, looking at that map at least, if we assume the Baloch populated areas were carved out into an independent B'stan, any route - road or rail - north to C. Asia would have to pass through Pashtun territory (in green). Those are areas controlled by the Talibs or other Paki-pasand pashtuns, hence vulnerable.

When I said contiguous with A'stan I meant to those areas that are controlled by the NA/Karzai government -- but between those areas and B'stan lie the aforementioned troublesome Pashtun territories.

[Pranav]

Suppiahji, I should have been clearer - what I meant is that, looking at that map at least, if we assume the Baloch populated areas were carved out into an independent B'stan, any route - road or rail - north to C. Asia would have to pass through Pashtun territory (in green). Those are areas controlled by the Talibs or other Paki-pasand pashtuns, hence vulnerable.

When I said contiguous with A'stan I meant to those areas that are controlled by the NA/Karzai government -- but between those areas and B'stan lie the aforementioned troublesome Pashtun territories.

Pushtuns are not Pak-pasand; they don't recognize the Durand line.

[Suppiah]

I think Afghan would give an arm and leg to get sea access, so Baluchistan if free will have no trouble from them if that's taken care of. Long live Pashtun - Baloch friendship

[Altair]

Re: Baluch independence, I have a question for Altair and others who know the facts on the ground.

My impression was that the Baluch are almost a minority in their own province -- the wiki article on Baluchistan has the Baluch-speaking population at 40%, Pashtu-speaking at 40%, and Brahui-speaking at 20%. So native Baluch are an absolute minority (but a relative majority), and have equal numbers to Pashtuns.

Seems to me that an independent Baluch state is rendered far less feasible given these demographics? Does this factor into discussions about the possibility of a free Baluchistan?

From what I have understood about Baluchis, they are comparable to our Rajputs culture. They are fiercely independent, generous, friendly and are dead serious about their freedom. They have crossed the point of no return with respect to accommodating with Pakistan. I can say with absolute confidence that Baluchistan will be independent nation in a decade. I do not know how it will happen but it will happen. India must make sure that US does not become a primary stake holder of independent Baluchistan.
When it comes to numbers, they may appear to be a minority but they have certain advantages which covers their deficiencies.

[Pranav]

I can say with absolute confidence that Baluchistan will be independent nation in a decade. I do not know how it will happen but it will happen.

Saar, it is a question of fire power. They had a big struggle in the 1970's but they are still under Pak yoke 40 years later. They would be ill-advised to trust the US at this stage. Maybe situation will change.

[Suppiah]

Wonder why our MPs at least from opposition can't ask question in Parliament about balochi's plight and what GOI is doing about them or for parties to organise seminars, friendship societies, discussions etc., ala Tibet in Unkil-land.

[Prem]

I think Afghan would give an arm and leg to get sea access, so Baluchistan if free will have no trouble from them if that's taken care of. Long live Pashtun - Baloch friendship

Pushtun Baloch Upon Pakjab will put the Hijab on Poaq Khwab, right Jwab and Hisab .

[Altair]

I can say with absolute confidence that Baluchistan will be independent nation in a decade. I do not know how it will happen but it will happen.

Saar, it is a question of fire power. They had a big struggle in the 1970's but they are still under Pak yoke 40 years later. They would be ill-advised to trust the US at this stage. Maybe situation will change.

Coming to firepower, They understand that they lack in it. They are using the Information technology and media as their primary weapons to its maximum potential. They are also not naive to trust US.

[negi]

About the Toilet phlom the Toilet by the Toilet

Pakistan Air Force making 'iPads'‎

One of the reader comments:

Are they sure thay are making iPads or just "pads"?
2. Are they going to call it PakiPad?
3. Pakistani engineering? what the f*** is that? 4.
When attacked are thay going to launch angry birds at us?