Sushupti wrote:‘Army’s secret Division would have prevented Samba-like encounters’
The Samba attack by Pakistan-based elements could have been avoided if the Technical Services Division (TSD) had not been shut down a year ago, claim senior military officers who wish to remain unnamed. Speaking to them, it becomes clear that the decision by incoming Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Bikram Singh to shut down the TSD of the Army immediately upon taking charge from General V.K. Singh a year ago has been greeted with dismay by his own officers, especially those on the frontline of Pakistan terror. These officers say that the scrapping of the TSD is a major reason why there has been a spurt in cross-border intrusions over the past year, and warn that unless the organisation gets re-established, counter-insurgency operations will suffer.
"The decision to finish off TSD was political and not military. It was done to show (former COAS) General V.K. Singh in a bad light," a senior officer commented, while another claimed that "the TSD enabled our boys to get prior information on the movements of terror groups, so that these were caught before sneaking into India". He claimed that "despite the effort by the ISI to create a Kashmir Intifada by motivating youngsters to pelt stones at security forces, the situation was quickly brought under control." An officer claimed that the TSD was able to use technical means to operate deep within Pakistan and find out the trajectories of terror plots against targets in India. "At a cost of just Rs 20-30 crore annually, the Army was able to finally reach the actual sources of terror operations and not just tackle the symptoms," a former officer claimed.
The 26/11 Mumbai terror attack of 2008 showed the need for the army to go beyond its focus on the Line of Control and run sources deep inside Pakistan. In March 2009, a meeting took place to discuss this need, and then COAS General Deepak Kapoor asked Military Intelligence to work on a position paper, which was approved by Defence Minister A.K. Antony soon after its submission in October. The proposed TSD was to function under the Director-General of Military Intelligence, who would audit its funds and give operational directives. However, although the proposal had been cleared, it was not implemented until General V.K. Singh took over as COAS in April 2010. Among the tasks of the new unit were to keep a watch on separatists and other pro-Pakistan elements, as well as identify and record the groups and individuals seeking to destabilise the Kashmir valley. The getting of sources from within Pakistan was a high priority. The 2010 Intifada, which was countered less by standard police procedure than by an "information war" (Infowar) pointing out the harm the movement was doing to the physical and financial well-being of residents of the valley. A senior officer then in J&K admitted that "some NGOs which promoted peace and conciliation were funded by the TSD, but such expenditure was nothing compared to ISI cash pouring into the valley".
Among the examples of Infowar carried out by the TSD were the securing of numerous videos showing the maltreatment of locals in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir by Pakistan army personnel, and the humiliation that locals had to daily endure, besides their economic hardship. "We showed the valley that life was hell on the other side, and this hurt the pro-Pakistan groups who painted a rosy picture of the other side," an officer claimed. His colleague claimed that "at least three dozen terror plots against targets in India were discovered because of the TSD, and foiled". He added that the (26 September 2013) Samba attack "showed the problem created by removing the TSD 'eye' from the armoury of the army". He added that the attack showed that "military intelligence needed to operate not only just across the LoC but deep within Pakistan to be effective". He warned that the "peace group (now running policy) had taken away from the army the right to a robust response to provocations after first draining it of Infowar capability". Another claimed that "these days, only officers who are more adept in cultivating superiors rather than in fighting get ahead" and warned that this would "affect the success of war operations, where courage and improvisation are key to victory".
The officers claimed to have no knowledge of any TSD connection with an NGO that filed a complaint against the present COAS, General Bikram Singh, over the 2001 Janglath Mandi encounter, in which a 70-year-old local resident (who seems to have been indigent) has been identified by the army as a dangerous militant, who shot and killed the commanding officer of a unit as well as injuring then Lt Gen Bikram Singh. The NGO claimed that the alleged militant was only a bystander and that he was killed in the crossfire between two units of the army, one of which mistook the other to be terrorists. A source close to the present COAS says that Gen Bikram Singh "is a very bold officer and just because a man is 70 years old, does not mean he cannot be a threat". The military has consistently taken Gen Bikram Singh's side of the story, even while Gen V.K. Singh was COAS, and has refused to conduct any fresh investigations into the encounter that left both the alleged terrorist as well as an army officer dead and the present COAS injured.
About news reports that Gen V.K. Singh snooped on officials and politicians using off-air interceptors ordered by Military Intelligence, a source pointed out that only one of the interceptors was in army use, "and that on the LoC and not Delhi". He said that the other vehicles were in the possession of the NTRO. When then Defence Secretary (and now Comptroller and Auditor General) Sashikant Sharma ordered an inquiry into all such matters in July 2012, the Board of Officers concluded that there was no evidence of any wrongdoing. Interestingly, the role of the officer who actually ordered the purchase of the off-air interceptors has never been probed. This has, however, not prevented a spate of reports from coming out about the TSD, thereby obscuring its utility as a low-budget instrument both for collection of information about hostile elements and for the conduct of Infowar in sensitive theatres.
http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/arm ... encounters
India’s 20 lakh retired servicemen are fuming over the Defence Ministry’s decision to hire former Joint Secretary (Pension) Harbans Singh, a retired Central Secretariat Service officer in the Department of Ex-Servicemen Welfare (DESW), allegedly violating reemployment rules. The irony is that Harbans—accused of bias against ex-servicemen draws Rs 60,000 as contractual monthly salary from the Armed Forces Flag Day (AFFD) funds meant for their welfare and rehabilitation.
The Indian Ex-Servicemen Movement (IESM), a nationwide outfit made up of retired defence personnel, has shot off an angry letter to Defence Minister A K Antony against Harbans’ appointment. It cites his previous antipathy towards servicemen during his eight-year stint in the ministry. “The fact cannot be ignored by us that most pension disputes and anomalies in pension policy implementation arose during Harbans Singh’s tenure,” said IESM’s officiating chairman Major General Satbir Singh. It is the responsibility of the officer concerned to resolve matters concerning ex-servicemen speedily. Harbans has been re-employed on Kendriya Sainik Board (KSB)’s non-government contractual employment terms, but functions as an officer on special duty in DESW. His job is to fight court cases involving pensions and disability pensions of soldiers.Satbir Singh alleged that “anti-military” sentiment in DESW is acute. Apart from being an impediment to positive welfare policies for the military community, it also played “a damaging and sadistic role” by misleading even the Defence Minister that retired defence personnel were “greedy” and “do not deserve” what they have asked for. “It is shocking that this government is using soldiers’ welfare funds to fight court cases against their pension and disability requests. Thankfully, the IESM has taken up this issue,” said Major Navdeep Singh, a Chandigarh-based lawyer.
{Just hope this is a pilot project, 49 infantry level drones do not get much coverage}Stepping up surveillance along the tense border of China and Pakistan, the Indian Army is equipping its troops with hand-held drones. It has floated a request for proposal for acquiring 49 mini unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) last month, which the army feels will be a “game changer,” like they have been for the allied forces in AfPak.
The imminent threat posed by India’s two inimical neighbours China and Pakistan has in recent years forced a rethink on India’s defense preparedness. The cabinet committee on security recently cleared an army proposal to create 72,000-strong Mountain Strike Corp, which will be deployed in the eastern sector facing China. The armed forces, it appears, also wants to send a clear signal to both the neighbours. Recently the Indian Air Force in a show of strength landed its C130J at the DBO in Ladakh — the world’s highest airstrip.
The army top brass feels the hand-held drones, which will be unarmed and used mainly for surveillance purposes will give it a “strategic edge” and “reduce costs” in manning high altitude and difficult terrains. To begin with, the UAVs will be employed in Leh and Ladakh sector (Northern Command) to keep an eye on Chinese activities and check terrorist infiltration from across PoK.
In April, the Indian Army was in for major embarrassment when there was Chinese incursion two days after PLA troops had set up makeshift posts. Since the perception of the Line of Actual Control differs widely on both sides of the Sino-Indian border, Indian and Chinese troops have often found themselves in the awkward situation of being face-to-face with each other while patrolling. “Also considering the sheer length of our borders, a patrolling party may not return to a particular point for days together,” said a senior army officer.
That situation will now change as the brand new UAVs will be able to provide real time data of any movement in a radius of at least 10 kilometers. “The mini drones will be fitted with high resolution cameras, including infra-red, for night surveillance. They weigh less than 10 kilograms and can be transported on the shoulders. They will also be equipped with recording devices and sensors for detecting movement,” a senior army officer told dna. The army has asked for UAVs, which should be able to work with at least one of the commonly used digital map formats. And interestingly, these UAVs should be able to work with Google Maps downloaded from the Internet.
The drones will be propelled by electric motor and will thus be “literally noise-free” once they attain a height of 500 metres above ground level. “That will also help them avoid detection,” an officer said. The ceiling for these hi-tech machines will be “1,000 metres above ground level,” with a cruise speed of over 70kmph. “The system should be sturdy and robust, which should be capable of withstanding day-to-day handling and usage by soldiers under combat conditions,” the army’s proposal claims.
So far, the Indian experience with drones/UAVs has been limited to the much bigger machines that are handled by the Indian Air Force - which is operating about 100 Searcher-II and 60 Heron UAVs - both from Israeli stables. India is also in the process of developing indigenous UAVs like Nishant and Rustom.
so it seems T-90S number is going to exceed the 1657 totally planned for!! any space for Arjun?? apart from a max 4 regiments - that IA magnanimously wants to equip but even here orders for 2 regiments will only come after 93 odd mods in Mk 2 is proven to IA's satisfaction!!!The most important tank in our inventory is the T-90 S. This is a third generation Russian tank. The tank uses a 125 mm 2A46 smooth bore gun and thermal imaging sights. India initially procured 310 T- 90S tanks of which 120 were delivered complete, 90 in semi knocked down kits and 100 in completely knocked down kits. Further a contract was signed for another 330 T-90 M tanks that were to be to be built with locally sourced raw materials. A third contract was signed for 347 upgraded T-90s which will be assembled in India. By 2020, India would have a total of 2,011 T-90 tanks working out to about 40 armoured regiments. There are also six additional regiments being raised for high-altitude conditions. The ammunition fired by the tank consists of Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) and High Explosive Anti Tank (HEAT) as also the Invar missile with a range of 6 Km. The Indian Army is upgrading about 1,600 T-72 tanks with night vision devices and the rest would comprise indigenous Arjun tank which is heavier than the T-90 and has a 120mm gun which fires APFSDS, HEAT, High Explosive (HE) and High Explosive Squash Head (HESH). The tank fires the LAHAT missile. This is a semi-active laser homing missile with a range of 8 km. The Arjun Mk II is undergoing trials with about 75 modifications.
This is going OT, but Rajinder Puri hints that the Ambanis would like Pranab-da to take charge in 2014 -ramana wrote: DNA, Sep 30, 2013
All eyes on supreme commander
The VK Singh controversy underscores the need for President to play a more active role
C Uday Bhaskar
The only effective leader with the requisite stature, experience and political skill to obtain governance out of a badly fractured parliament happens to be President Pranab Mukherjee. According to some sources certain big business elements are zeroing in on his name. Whether Mr. Mukherjee could play an effective role in his present post to ensure stability is a matter of conjecture. It would imply a change in how our present system of government operates. By coincidence or otherwise in Mumbai which is India’s financial capital some unusual street hoardings have sprung up advocating a presidential system of government for this nation. One of these hoardings was displayed in Kemp’s Corner. The other possibility would be of course that circumstances compel the President to resign his post and become Prime Minister. There have been occasions in America when a President after demitting office has taken up another political post. In India C. Rajagopalachari after becoming the Governor General of India became the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu. Though unusual, such an eventuality would not be impossible.
- See more at: http://www.boloji.com/index.cfm?md=Cont ... G8bOO.dpuf
These are the 310 upgraded T-90s ordered by the Army for the NE. Proven? A big joke... this T-90 was just recently displayed and the IA has generously decided to order these tanks..pragnya wrote:Arms and ammunition of the Indian Army
so it seems T-90S number is going to exceed the 1657 totally planned for!! any space for Arjun?? apart from a max 4 regiments - that IA magnanimously wants to equip but even here orders for 2 regiments will only come after 93 odd mods in Mk 2 is proven to IA's satisfaction!!!The most important tank in our inventory is the T-90 S. This is a third generation Russian tank. The tank uses a 125 mm 2A46 smooth bore gun and thermal imaging sights. India initially procured 310 T- 90S tanks of which 120 were delivered complete, 90 in semi knocked down kits and 100 in completely knocked down kits. Further a contract was signed for another 330 T-90 M tanks that were to be to be built with locally sourced raw materials. A third contract was signed for 347 upgraded T-90s which will be assembled in India. By 2020, India would have a total of 2,011 T-90 tanks working out to about 40 armoured regiments. There are also six additional regiments being raised for high-altitude conditions. The ammunition fired by the tank consists of Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) and High Explosive Anti Tank (HEAT) as also the Invar missile with a range of 6 Km. The Indian Army is upgrading about 1,600 T-72 tanks with night vision devices and the rest would comprise indigenous Arjun tank which is heavier than the T-90 and has a 120mm gun which fires APFSDS, HEAT, High Explosive (HE) and High Explosive Squash Head (HESH). The tank fires the LAHAT missile. This is a semi-active laser homing missile with a range of 8 km. The Arjun Mk II is undergoing trials with about 75 modifications.
Infrastructure Development: Key to a credible defence
Karan M wrote:pragnya wrote:Arms and ammunition of the Indian Army
These are the 310 upgraded T-90s ordered by the Army for the NE. Proven? A big joke... this T-90 was just recently displayed and the IA has generously decided to order these tanks..
It will take a huge numbers xxxxxxxxxxxxx. No thing else.Karan M wrote:Sir, you are preaching to the choir. The IA Armored Corp is so stuck in their ways, that it will take a miracle to change their thinking.
Fighting, the sources said, is still taking place in the village of Shala Bhata, where Pakistani irregulars and special forces personnel are using abandoned homes to fire on troops attempting to clear the area. Lieutenant-General Gurmeet Singh, commander of the Srinagar-based XV corps, said earlier this week twelve terrorists had been killed in the fighting — a statement that was misreported to have referred to a separate fidayeen strike on police and military installations in Samba. A spokesperson at army headquarters in New Delhi said he had no confirmation yet on Indian casualties.
“There’s no confirmation yet about who the infiltrators are”, a senior New Delhi-based military spokesperson said, “but some of the bodies we’ve recovered are wearing uniforms, which is suggestive. More important, the tactics and disciplined use of firepower by the infiltrators show they are likely special forces personnel, not just infiltrators.”
The intrusion, the sources said, took place on the night of 23 September, taking advantage of gaps in patrolling which took place when troops of the 20 Kumaon regiment were handing over charge to the 3-3 Gurkha, during a routine rotation of troops. The intruders took cover in unoccupied observation posts overlooking a nullah, or village stream, as well as abandoned homes.
Don't get your hopes high that the same will be done now.In 1990, many inhabitants of the village’s 21-odd families left for Pakistan, fearing imminent fighting. They continue to live just across the Line of Control, in a hamlet also called Shala Bhata. Pakistani troops have a small encampment just across the Line of Control. The remainder of the village’s inhabitants were evacuated from the area in 1999-1999, amidst intense Pakistani fire directed at adjoining Indian military positions.
The occupation of the ghost village of Shala Bhata began less than a week before Prime Minister Singh held talks with Prime Minister Sharif in New York. Their discussions centred around measures to deescalate tensions on the line of control. The two Prime Ministers ordered their Directors-General of Military Operations to hold talks to defuse growing tensions.
Pakistani troops last occupied positions on the Indian side of the Line of Control in July, 2002, taking Loonda Post— part of the same sector where fighting is now underway. India responded, on that occasion, by using eight Mirage 2000 aircraft to drop precision-guided bombs on to the four occupied bunkers. Following the air strike, troops supported by 155-millimetre howitzers retook the positions.
The daylight air assault, government sources told Firstpost, had been authorised at the highest political leavel, and were intended to demonstrate that India would not hesitate to escalate the conflict if provoked.
Karan M ji, What you are saying is right. The problem is India's defence-defence approach is no longer going to work. The current Paki Army-Jihadi system is far too emboldened for that. After all they have managed to make America withdraw from Afghanistan and before that SU. If I were a Paki general I would also be feeling on the top of the world after defeating two superpowers in last 30 years over protracted conflicts. Hence Pakis are high in light of current events in Afghanistan. They are feeling that now they can push India around.Karan M wrote:Point is they feel like this everytime they come up with nihari indigestion etc - but it stands to reason they are doing all this because they think they can get away with it.
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In any conflict, the enemy's perception of capabilities is a key factor, and lets face it, that is where the talky-talk all the time stuff has backfired big time. That and the near complete absence of enabling the IA's ambitious Cold Start doctrine, announced with fanfare but still hampered by lack of proper arty and so forth.
RajitO wrote:... try and analyze what the Pakis will gain from this latest incident....
1) Get their soldiers picked off one by one in yet another operational defeat for Pak army.
2) Strengthen the Indian army's case for no withdrawal of AFSPA, or from Siachen, so another strategic own goal by Pak army.
.... also consider Pakistan's usual strategic suicide, i.e. if one wants to have a balanced analysis and discussion.
Err IA does use mules. I am not sure what you are referring to here?ashish raval wrote:Why can't IA use donkeys during patrol to carry Gatling guns and heavy machine guns so that pigs can be responded much more immediately and with heavy hand.
While you may want to have a balanced discussions in the peaceful environs of wherever you are, warfare seeks to disrupt the balance of power, dispositions, strategic advantages, etc.RajitO wrote:Apart from "loss of face" faced by many posters on BR and certain news anchors, try and analyze what the Pakis will gain from this latest incident....
1) Get their soldiers picked off one by one in yet another operational defeat for Pak army.
2) Strengthen the Indian army's case for no withdrawal of AFSPA, or from Siachen, so another strategic own goal by Pak army.
...while India's inability to preempt tactical surprise ala Kargil is indeed a concern, also consider Pakistan's usual strategic suicide, i.e. if one wants to have a balanced analysis and discussion.
Consider the parallel with Pakistan today. The Pakistanis are overpopulated without any meaningful economic means. They consider themselves an Islamic martial race. Hence Lebensraum is perfectly justified for them.Adolf Hitler described: "We are overpopulated and cannot feed ourselves from our own resources". The policy of Lebensraum implicitly assumed the superiority of Germans as members of an Aryan master race who by virtue of their superiority had the right to displace people deemed to be part of inferior races. As such peoples deemed to be part of inferior races living within territory selected to be Lebensraum, were subject to expulsion or destruction
Problem is rot has set in everywhere.ashish raval wrote:Why can't IA use donkeys during patrol to carry Gatling guns and heavy machine guns so that pigs can be responded much more immediately and with heavy hand.
