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India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby member_23692 » 21 Jul 2013 16:53

chaanakya wrote:
harbans wrote:The solution to the Chinese nitpicking along the border is simple. Very simple. Derecognize Chinese aggression of Tibet. Claim Kailash Mansarover. Start to reverse the damage done by previous leaders. That message needs to be got through to a potential leader like NM. Obviously while doing all that keep the powder dry.

fully agree. We need to take offensive into their camp.


And what if after these lame announcements by the Government of India, the Chinese intrude even more or worse, embark on a "limited" punitive strike to punish India for its indiscretions. What if then they occupy and keep a fairly large chunk of our territory, a la aksai chin ? Just like 1962 ? Escalating a situation when India does not have the fire power to even defend itself, leave aside "taking the offensive into their camp" would be laughable, if it was not so dangerous. Remember, Nehru in 1962 ? After paying no attention to building up our defenses for years, one fine day, he just woke up and "commanded" the Indian Army to "drive the Chinese out of our territory". The situation today is worse than Nehru's days. Nehru merely neglected to build up our armed forces. Since him, over the last 50 years, we have systematically run down and hollowed out our defenses, mainly due to our internal corruption, which has in last twenty years or so resulted in corrupting of the top brass of the Army too. Besides massive corruption in the Army's procurement process, total apathy and even antipathy among most in our political class to build up our armed forces, over reliance on Russia, over emphasis on "indeginising" of defense production, lack of coherent defense posture and policies, lack of an overall integrated foreign, domestic and defense vision, shamelessness to the extreme, all have contributed to our "hollowed out" defense forces. As if, hollowed out defense forces are not bad enough, there has been no political will to defend our borders. The will has totally collapsed. This is all recent HISTORY. Now let us talk about the present and the future. The present is worse than the recent history I outlined above and the future portends to be even worse. Does anybody see any hopeful signs ? I don't. So, for the sake of argument, even if I agree with you that the Indian government should "derecognize Chinese aggression of Tibet..........", do you see any prospects of the Indian government doing that right now or in the forseeable future ?

I read in a thread elsewhere that Shiv has made a comeback and is upset by this self criticism. "The Chinese blame us and the we Indians blame ourselves too", he said. Well, ok, let us not blame ourselves for the state of affairs. Let us blame all our ills on the Chinese, the Pakis and of course, let us whip our favorite whipping boy again, it is all the West's fault - with massive conspiracies hatched against India everyday in Washington, London, Paris, Berlin, but mainly London and Washington. Yep, Americans and the Brits are so obsessed with checking the (long predicted and long awaited) "inevitable rise" of India as an "inevitable super power", an economic giant, a billion people, that they have totally neglected and even colluded with their Islamic enemies to spend all their time plotting against India in all sorts of convoluted ways. Yeah, I "totally believe" that. Now, have I proven myself worthy of receiving a "certificate" of being a "good, dharmic, civilizational Indian", who sees no evil, hears no evil and speaks no evil about our Godly and perfect Dharmic country made up of all Godlike individuals about whom how can anyone even think that they can be corrupt and idiotic.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby chaanakya » 21 Jul 2013 19:11

Well you believe Indians and its Army , bureaucracy, diplomacy, political system, economics are good for nothing then well nothing could be done despite your whining. Let us announce this and accept Chinese claims and settle the border issues once for all. But , is that enough to guarantee peace at the border? Probably, they would like us to be vassal state or may be changez khan could come down again and do it to us.

You are right when India is weak and hollowed out we have been invaded, time and again, but that has not prevented us from resisting and claiming our heritage back.

Remember , it was the same situation when Nanda empire was overthrown by Maurya and checked the advances of intruders at the north for a very long time.

Now , let me put a counter question. What if we declare our lame policy as proposed by harbans . what Chinese are going to do about it , go to war with India??

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby chaanakya » 21 Jul 2013 20:09

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 218585.cms

NEW DELHI: Riding on horses and ponies, around 50 Chinese soldiers intruded into the Indian territory of Chumar in Ladakh on July 16 staking their claim over the area.

The Chinese troops started their incursion in the Chumar area on the evening of July 16 and they remained in the Indian area till the morning of July 17, sources said.

Army sources confirmed the incursion saying that Indian troops had intercepted the PLA patrol in the Chumar area and after the usual banner drill between the two sides, the PLA patrol went back into their territory.

Sources said the intruding Chinese soldiers asked the Indian soldiers to vacate the area claiming that they were standing in Chinese territory.


The incursion by Chinese land forces comes soon after its two helicopters violated Indian air space on July 11 in the Chumar sector.

In the same area, PLA troops had intruded and taken away an Indian surveillance camera on June 17.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby member_23692 » 21 Jul 2013 23:28

chaanakya wrote:
Now , let me put a counter question. What if we declare our lame policy as proposed by harbans . what Chinese are going to do about it , go to war with India??


No, they will simply waive the white flag, cry uncle and fall at the feet of our sardarji and sonia ji and beg forgiveness.

And also, forgive me for not realizing, that YOU want to do another "maurya to nanda". You of course, are the only person that can pull it off, after all you do have a "track record" or shall I say, "the track record".

All levity aside, though, I think you can answer your own question. Can you play out one scenario of a "chess game" that will follow our declaration of that policy, where India will win out in the end ? I cant, under today's circumstances with India having this system of governance. If you are counting on a world wide outcry against a Chinese invasion (which I think will be limited and punitive, not a full fledged conflagration), you are sadly, miscalculating, and miscalculating badly. The world will instead, as the situation exists today, unfortunately, come down heavy on India for making this "unprovoked" derecognition announcement, thereby escalating the situation and "forcing" or "compelling" the Chinese to respond. "The Chinese have shown tremendous restraint over the past decades vis-a-vis India", the Western governments and media would say and "no one could expect the Chinese just to lay back and do nothing, could they, considering the grave provocation by the Indian government, who did this under pressure from the Hindu extremists".

Besides regardless of what you and I think, this is not going to happen. So instead of this "jingoistic" pipe dream, it would be far more prudent to discuss how we can change our system of governance, so that we can then build up our defenses and then when we are prepared for all eventualities, we have worked out all the war game scenarios in our war room, then, we hit the Chinese with these announcements. Then, they may cry "uncle". I too want derecognition of Tibet, not as a retaliation for these incursions, but as a matter of principle to reunite us with our "cultural blood brothers". Tibet in my mind is for India, what Taiwan may be for the Chinese. But nothing will happen under this dispensation that we have in place today. No party will do it. Not even Modi will be able to, even if by some miracle, he gets elected. Instead, all of us should focus on replacing this system of governance. Like I have repeatedly said, without it, NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN. YOU WILL KEEP ON HAVING DON QUIXOTE'SQUE PIPE DREAMS and when I will call you on those, YOU WILL KEEP CALL MY POSTS a whine and the politicians and babus and even a large part of our general populace will continue to indulge in the orgy of corruption and depravity that they have been doing for the past 60 years.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby Samudragupta » 21 Jul 2013 23:38

rsangram wrote:
chaanakya wrote:
Now , let me put a counter question. What if we declare our lame policy as proposed by harbans . what Chinese are going to do about it , go to war with India??


No, they will simply waive the white flag, cry uncle and fall at the feet of our sardarji and sonia ji and beg forgiveness.

And also, forgive me for not realizing, that YOU want to do another "maurya to nanda". You of course, are the only person that can pull it off, after all you do have a "track record" or shall I say, "the track record".

All levity aside, though, I think you can answer your own question. Can you play out one scenario of a "chess game" that will follow our declaration of that policy, where India will win out in the end ? I cant, under today's circumstances with India having this system of governance. If you are counting on a world wide outcry against a Chinese invasion (which I think will be limited and punitive, not a full fledged conflagration), you are sadly, miscalculating, and miscalculating badly. The world will instead, as the situation exists today, unfortunately, come down heavy on India for making this "unprovoked" derecognition announcement, thereby escalating the situation and "forcing" or "compelling" the Chinese to respond. "The Chinese have shown tremendous restraint over the past decades vis-a-vis India", the Western governments and media would say and "no one could expect the Chinese just to lay back and do nothing, could they, considering the grave provocation by the Indian government, who did this under pressure from the Hindu extremists".

Besides regardless of what you and I think, this is not going to happen. So instead of this "jingoistic" pipe dream, it would be far more prudent to discuss how we can change our system of governance, so that we can then build up our defenses and then when we are prepared for all eventualities, we have worked out all the war game scenarios in our war room, then, we hit the Chinese with these announcements. Then, they may cry "uncle". I too want derecognition of Tibet, not as a retaliation for these incursions, but as a matter of principle to reunite us with our "cultural blood brothers". Tibet in my mind is for India, what Taiwan may be for the Chinese. But nothing will happen under this dispensation that we have in place today. No party will do it. Not even Modi will be able to, even if by some miracle, he gets elected. Instead, all of us should focus on replacing this system of governance. Like I have repeatedly said, without it, NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN. YOU WILL KEEP ON HAVING DON QUIXOTE'SQUE PIPE DREAMS and when I will call you on those, YOU WILL KEEP CALL MY POSTS a whine and the politicians and babus and even a large part of our general populace will continue to indulge in the orgy of corruption and depravity that they have been doing for the past 60 years.



Accepting that Chinese will go for a punitive strike but the current Global Geopolitical situation is too volatile to accept that there wont be consequences for the Chinese action...if not else it will put the entire East Asia and SE Asia in the American pivot and immediate militarization of Japan....Do you think the Chinese want it....but i am not suggesting that China won't go for war....the concept of Just war in the Chinese Strategic circles simple calls for any offensive as preemptive defense....may be the current Chinese nitpicking is for searching for the just cause for a war....

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby chaanakya » 21 Jul 2013 23:58

rsangram wrote:
chaanakya wrote:
Now , let me put a counter question. What if we declare our lame policy as proposed by harbans . what Chinese are going to do about it , go to war with India??


No, they will simply waive the white flag, cry uncle and fall at the feet of our sardarji and sonia ji and beg forgiveness.

And also, forgive me for not realizing, that YOU want to do another "maurya to nanda". You of course, are the only person that can pull it off, after all you do have a "track record" or shall I say, "the track record".

All levity aside, though, I think you can answer your own question. Can you play out one scenario of a "chess game" that will follow our declaration of that policy, where India will win out in the end ? I cant, under today's circumstances with India having this system of governance. If you are counting on a world wide outcry against a Chinese invasion (which I think will be limited and punitive, not a full fledged conflagration), you are sadly, miscalculating, and miscalculating badly. The world will instead, as the situation exists today, unfortunately, come down heavy on India for making this "unprovoked" derecognition announcement, thereby escalating the situation and "forcing" or "compelling" the Chinese to respond. "The Chinese have shown tremendous restraint over the past decades vis-a-vis India", the Western governments and media would say and "no one could expect the Chinese just to lay back and do nothing, could they, considering the grave provocation by the Indian government, who did this under pressure from the Hindu extremists".

Besides regardless of what you and I think, this is not going to happen. So instead of this "jingoistic" pipe dream, it would be far more prudent to discuss how we can change our system of governance, so that we can then build up our defenses and then when we are prepared for all eventualities, we have worked out all the war game scenarios in our war room, then, we hit the Chinese with these announcements. Then, they may cry "uncle". I too want derecognition of Tibet, not as a retaliation for these incursions, but as a matter of principle to reunite us with our "cultural blood brothers". Tibet in my mind is for India, what Taiwan may be for the Chinese. But nothing will happen under this dispensation that we have in place today. No party will do it. Not even Modi will be able to, even if by some miracle, he gets elected. Instead, all of us should focus on replacing this system of governance. Like I have repeatedly said, without it, NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN. YOU WILL KEEP ON HAVING DON QUIXOTE'SQUE PIPE DREAMS and when I will call you on those, YOU WILL KEEP CALL MY POSTS a whine and the politicians and babus and even a large part of our general populace will continue to indulge in the orgy of corruption and depravity that they have been doing for the past 60 years.


the problem with your whinefest, and dont be ashamed of it as it is allowed by the thread creator, is that you will never ever be ready to take on anyone as you are forever waiting for ideal situation to emerge. \that is not going to happen , even you concede the point. Chinese are probing our responses by these intrusions but your lack of faith in everything else Indian wont visualise a response which is proper. \therefore you , first want to change the system thereafter go after Chinese. Well that could be one scenario.

I dont think China is going to attack India for that change of policy. It is just going to put a questionamrk over legitimacy of chinese occupation over that area. of course you would not remember that USA still does not recognise Chinese claim over Tibet, only Indians did to large extent. India already provides shelter to Govt in exile so I dont see a major departure. Of course your dream of making Tibet as part of India would not fall in quixotic domain, as you are the exalted one.

Well you can wait forever like Vladimir and Estragon for arrival of Godo

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby member_23252 » 22 Jul 2013 00:03

Incursions in Ladakh, a prelude a coming war with China, says analyst Bharat Verma

Defence Analyst Capt. (Retd). Bharat Verma said here today that the continuous probing by Chinese troops would eventually lead to a India -China war in the near future. He commented here today on reports of intrusions by Chinese troops into Indian territory in Eastern Ladakh, who held banners demanding that India should leave the "occupied" areas.

Last week an incident of incursion was reported when the Chinese troops had crossed the Line of Actual Control, resulting in a two-day face-off between the troops from both sides. Though no casualty was reported and the Chinese troops retreated on July 18 to restore normalcy in the area, the incident grabbed Indian attention as the government announced that 40,000 additional troops would be positioned in the area.

"The Chinese on one hand politically keep saying that they don't agree with what PLA is saying. They tell that to the government and the world to put India to sleep. On the other hand, they keep probing attacks by incursions, trying to extract maximum territorial concessions from India. However, this is a prelude to a coming war with China", said Verma today.


Verma also said that the Chinese strategy has chosen the present time to provoke India because they are aware that New Delhi is not prepared. He further said that the Chinese are also aware that India might have a "no-nonsense" government from the 2014 Lok Sabha elections and considerably increase their military strength in the coming years to counter China. As a result, Verma said, the present time makes India a "soft-target" which is vulnerable right now.

"China can attack India across the borders and there is a clear calculation in (the) Chinese mind that if India becomes militarily very strong in the next few years, it will lose this window of opportunity. At present, the Government of India led by Dr. Manmohan Singh is too weak, is in too much of crisis, is too confused. It also appears there's a huge Chinese lobby within the Government of India and within India, which stops government of India from taking any action against the Chinese", Verma said.

Earlier in the day even Communist Part of India (CPI) leader D. Raja commented on Chinese incursions and said that the India -China relations are moving forward but India needs to take up the issue strongly with the leadership of China.

"There should not be any provocative action from the Chinese army. There is forward movement. India should take up this issue with the leadership of China. India should register its strong protest with the Chinese leadership if the incidents are recurring and provoking", Raja said.


Today's incursion was reported to the Prime Minister's Office (PMO), Ministry of Defence and Ministry of External Affairs. The Indian authorities, it has been disclosed, have sought a meeting with Chinese officials including the area commanders at Spanggur Gap. (ANI)

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby svinayak » 22 Jul 2013 00:24

A_Rai wrote:"The Chinese on one hand politically keep saying that they don't agree with what PLA is saying. They tell that to the government and the world to put India to sleep.

PLA controls the political wing of the PRC govt.
But these plans needs to be seen in a more geo political theater to understand.

PRC sees the Japan move and its strategic relations with India as a threat.
PRC sees the change in the global trade and currency policy where the mfg will move away from PRC as a threat
PRC sees the US moves in Asia Pacific and pivot as a threat
PRC sees the coalition of countries Australia, Japan, US , India and other countries against PRC and its border as a threat.

They are hedging their future response with these incursion since there is low cost to them right now. When there is lot to lose and there is no more to gain then they will plan a real attack

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby saip » 22 Jul 2013 02:30


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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby member_23692 » 22 Jul 2013 02:57

chaanakya wrote:
the problem with your whinefest, and dont be ashamed of it as it is allowed by the thread creator, is that you will never ever be ready to take on anyone as you are forever waiting for ideal situation to emerge. \that is not going to happen , even you concede the point. Chinese are probing our responses by these intrusions but your lack of faith in everything else Indian wont visualise a response which is proper. \therefore you , first want to change the system thereafter go after Chinese. Well that could be one scenario.

I dont think China is going to attack India for that change of policy. It is just going to put a questionamrk over legitimacy of chinese occupation over that area. of course you would not remember that USA still does not recognise Chinese claim over Tibet, only Indians did to large extent. India already provides shelter to Govt in exile so I dont see a major departure. Of course your dream of making Tibet as part of India would not fall in quixotic domain, as you are the exalted one.

Well you can wait forever like Vladimir and Estragon for arrival of Godo


It is not a question of waiting. We are doing something on the ground about changing the system. I suggest you dont wait around and do something towards that end too.

You see, Chaanakya, you dont get to get Tibet for free. The Chinese got Aksai Chin after expending a lot of blood during WW2 and Cultural Revolution. We Indians have not gone through our own purification ritual yet. Ma Bhawani today is asking for a blood sacrifice. Ma Durga is asking for it and Ma Kali is asking for it too. We Indians must make this sacrifice by spilling impure and the corrupt blood on the alter of Mata Bhawani. But the corrupt will not go down easy. They will spill some noble blood too. So be it. We all should be willing to make that blood sacrifice to purify our country. Then and only then will we get Tibet back. Then and only then, will we get Afghanistan back, and yes, then and only then will we get Pak back. You see, my dear Chaanakya, you are right and wrong. You are right in that we may wait forever to change the system. You are wrong in that there is no hope. If we make the blood sacrifice, we will not have to wait forever to change the system. If we dont, then yes, you are right. It does not seem to me that you are willing to contemplate making any kind of sacrifice, leave aside blood sacrifice, and therefore, for you, your logic works, conclusion - no change in the system ever. Because trust me, and here I support your conclusion, IF there will be no sacrifice, then WE WILL wait forever for the change in system. And until the system changes, NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

In the meantime, please feel free to officially announce the "derecognition of Tibet". Because if you dont, then NO ONE ELSE WILL. Unfortunately, you will HAVE TO WAIT FOREVER FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. So, please, you go ahead and make the announcement. All of us are with you. At least I will be able to tell my grandchildren, there was this one guy, who toppled the mighty Nandas and also, "announced" the "derecognition of Tibet".

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby sanjaykumar » 22 Jul 2013 05:48

China can attack India across the borders and there is a clear calculation in (the) Chinese mind that if India becomes militarily very strong in the next few years, it will lose this window of opportunity. At present, the Government of India led by Dr. Manmohan Singh is too weak, is in too much of crisis, is too confused. It also appears there's a huge Chinese lobby within the Government of India and within India, which stops government of India from taking any action against the Chinese", Verma said.


I have previously stated that the China India power differential has been at a maxima for the past 2 decades, albeit India has stationed a highly dissuasive force along the borders. The political power has been all China's.

However several circumstances are ascendant potentially in India's favour:

The economy-India has demonstrated real honest-to-goodness growth rates of 10%, it will inevitably happen again. Another decade of such historically credible growth will mean very serious implications as growth will be on a $2 trillion base.

Conversely China's economic credibility is deflating rapidly and will now regress to the mean of similar economies, Thailand, Malaysia. Still respectable but not mesmerising.

Pakistan-has helped India immensely by making India look so noble and good in comparison. The west's worst nightmares include freelance terror groups from Muslim India. The west now needs India to monitor and contain Pakistan. Indian fantasies of the west using Pakistan to contain India show as much insight as Germany's handling of its Muslim (Turkish) problem (now where have we heard that before).

Of course Verma implies that India is in a position to take action against the Chinese at this time. I believe this.

The reason has to do with reification. That is if China could precipitate a border conflict, it would have done so/will do so shortly. For the same reasons that Pakistan decided to pit Starfighters against a meek Shastri in 1965. Before it was too late (but it is never too late to do something stupid).

P.S. I hope the reification argument is solid. As a rare original thought, I have posited a compassionate argument against participatory time travel into the past:altruistic motives would dictate that a future time traveller would travel into the past to alleviate suffering with advanced technology (of course we don't do so with other social/tribal groups in present time). Because there is no reification of this altruism, time travel can not be possible.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby chaanakya » 22 Jul 2013 16:36

rsangram wrote:
It is not a question of waiting. We are doing something on the ground about changing the system. I suggest you dont wait around and do something towards that end too.

You see, Chaanakya, you dont get to get Tibet for free. The Chinese got Aksai Chin after expending a lot of blood during WW2 and Cultural Revolution. We Indians have not gone through our own purification ritual yet. Ma Bhawani today is asking for a blood sacrifice. Ma Durga is asking for it and Ma Kali is asking for it too. We Indians must make this sacrifice by spilling impure and the corrupt blood on the alter of Mata Bhawani. But the corrupt will not go down easy. They will spill some noble blood too. So be it. We all should be willing to make that blood sacrifice to purify our country. Then and only then will we get Tibet back. Then and only then, will we get Afghanistan back, and yes, then and only then will we get Pak back. You see, my dear Chaanakya, you are right and wrong. You are right in that we may wait forever to change the system. You are wrong in that there is no hope. If we make the blood sacrifice, we will not have to wait forever to change the system. If we dont, then yes, you are right. It does not seem to me that you are willing to contemplate making any kind of sacrifice, leave aside blood sacrifice, and therefore, for you, your logic works, conclusion - no change in the system ever. Because trust me, and here I support your conclusion, IF there will be no sacrifice, then WE WILL wait forever for the change in system. And until the system changes, NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

In the meantime, please feel free to officially announce the "derecognition of Tibet". Because if you dont, then NO ONE ELSE WILL. Unfortunately, you will HAVE TO WAIT FOREVER FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. So, please, you go ahead and make the announcement. All of us are with you. At least I will be able to tell my grandchildren, there was this one guy, who toppled the mighty Nandas and also, "announced" the "derecognition of Tibet".



It is heartening to know that you are doing something on the ground about changing the system.
No need to make assumptions about what I am doing or what sacrifice I am contemplating or to put your logic in my words. I wish you good luck and hope you get something better than RG and NaMo who , in your opinion , would not be able to do your desire. Wake me up when you finish doing your system changes.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby kish » 22 Jul 2013 18:10

Is it just me or is there a pattern? After every chinese incursion there is a disaster in china. An earth quake has killed 73 people in China.

At least 73 dead in twin China quakes

Rescuers rushed to find victims buried by twin shallow earthquakes in northwest China Monday after the double tremors killed 73 people and injured almost 600, officials said. The tremors in Gansu province -- with magnitudes of 5.9 and 5.6 -- set off landslides which buried often crudely
constructed local houses, state broadcaster CCTV reported. Pictures from the scene showed simple buildings reduced to rubble, with pieces of corrugated metal used for roofing scattered over the wreckage.


After Daulat Beg Oldi incursion, there was a mine accident, communal riots and a knife wielding man attacked school children.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby Shanmukh » 22 Jul 2013 18:27

rsangram wrote: The Chinese got Aksai Chin after expending a lot of blood during WW2 and Cultural Revolution. We Indians have not gone through our own purification ritual yet. Ma Bhawani today is asking for a blood sacrifice. Ma Durga is asking for it and Ma Kali is asking for it too. We Indians must make this sacrifice by spilling impure and the corrupt blood on the alter of Mata Bhawani. But the corrupt will not go down easy. They will spill some noble blood too. So be it. We all should be willing to make that blood sacrifice to purify our country.


Saar,
While I am in full sympathy with your goal of cleansing public life, don't you think you are getting a little too hyperbolic with your desire to spill blood? This bit about `sacrifice' and `impure blood' is a little too reminiscent of the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution, where they planted madame la guillotine in the streets, and had her lovingly embrace her victims. The only result of it was a Napoleon who sacrificed a generation worth of Frenchmen in his wars. I think we should be a little careful in what we wish for ....

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby chaanakya » 22 Jul 2013 20:01

** Deleted **

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby harbans » 22 Jul 2013 20:55

And who said India's claim to KM or stand for Tibetan freedom is not rooted in principle and just a reaction? Whether we claim or don't claim what is ours or our Tibetan brethren's, the Chinese will continue to probe. The more one gets bullied the more likely for the bully to keep acting tougher. By rightfully and truthfully putting Tibet and KM on diplomatic frontburners at the same time we keep our Fighter afterburners in top gear..we may expect the bully to back of rather than play at appeasement. The former also rejuvenates the Tibetan resistance more than our passivity.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby member_23692 » 22 Jul 2013 21:10

** Deleted **

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby Garooda » 23 Jul 2013 21:37

saip wrote:China ready to invest $160 billion in Andhra PradeshWhat is this guy smoking?

Bali ke bakre ko khilaa ke tagdaa aur motaa karr rahe hai :) all the while the border incursions increase every year.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby Garooda » 23 Jul 2013 21:39

kish wrote:Is it just me or is there a pattern? After every chinese incursion there is a disaster in china. An earth quake has killed 73 people in China.
After Daulat Beg Oldi incursion, there was a mine accident, communal riots and a knife wielding man attacked school children.
Watch some religious folks claim to be their 'bhakti' that has proved successful in punishing China with natural disasters :)

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby chaanakya » 24 Jul 2013 14:37

**self Delete**
Sum total of your rant view can be summed up in two sentences

- The policy of declaring Tibet as disputed region and/or claiming Indian sovereignty over tibet is not appropriate.
- You want to cleanse the system first before taking any action as you fear Chinese will retailiate.

Well you are entitled to you views as I am or Harbansji or any other poster. **self delete**
Last edited by chaanakya on 24 Jul 2013 19:18, edited 2 times in total.

SSridhar
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby SSridhar » 24 Jul 2013 16:20

rsangram & chanaakya, lay off each other. No more ripostes. Else, you will attract board warnings.

BTW, I have deleted a couple of posts of yours.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby chaanakya » 24 Jul 2013 18:44

Thanks , **self deleted**. I have edited my posts.
Last edited by chaanakya on 24 Jul 2013 19:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby SSridhar » 24 Jul 2013 19:32

I strongly suggest not to make comments on admin actions.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby chaanakya » 24 Jul 2013 19:46

^^of course, I understand.
Last edited by SSridhar on 24 Jul 2013 19:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby Philip » 24 Jul 2013 19:51

For a long time now,I've advocated that we sue our trump cards,the two "T"s.Tibet and Taiwan.The easiest way to shove a carrot up the Chinese a*se is to send a high-powered official delegation to Taiwan. An "unofficial" stop-over by an Indian minister on his way back from Japan or SoKo would send the Zhongnanhai clique of cretins that we too can play hardball.If theys end their donkeys across into our territory they could also meet with "accidents".For eons I've been advocating that we raise apart from any mountain strike corps,a large force of Tibetans,for special forces use in particular.The ITBP must also come under the MOD and not HM.

The revelations on telly about the Chinese military strategy given to the GOI by the forces/intel agencies,shows that the Chinese plan "lightning in the monsoon",a quick surprise strike aimed at chewing up a key area of Indian territory to force India to accept the border "solution" on Chinese terms.The attack will also feature long range strikes at India's key bases and command centres,by the huge arsenal of tactical missiles that China possesses and has already stationed in Tibet.Our problem is not that the armed forces cannot find assymetric measures to counter the Chinese but the "defeatist" mentality that exists in the MMS/Sonia regime,where insipid eunuchs like FM Salman-the-Cursed call the crisis "acne",and DM AKA says that here are different "perceptions",as if the Chinese vision is perfect while we continue to suffer from myopia.Add to this the insults of Chinese aggression whenever an Indian top politico is about to visit China or theirs to India.Imagine if the Indian Army Chief warned the visiting Chinese PM not to indulge in mischief on the eve of his visit! Yet our beauties tuck their tails between their dhotis and meekly continue with their visit instead of cancelling it and sending the Chinese envoy home with a pointed object up his nether end.

Defeat is in the mind and as long as this regime which stinks of corruption and dereliction of duty remains,the window of opportunity to "defeat" India will exist. This window is about to rapidly close as there is no way with the groundswell of anti-Cong/UPA sentiment in the nation is going to evaporate.The Cong/UPA has a massive uphill battle to restore the huge swing against it.Even its anti-Modi villification campaign is backfiring as many Muslims are now protesting against the Congress communalising the coming elections.Nevertheless,while a change of govt. is in the offing,the damage done to the forces by delayed decision-making and progress on critical border infrastructure ,will give the Chinese a couple more years before the tide turns.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby chaanakya » 24 Jul 2013 19:56

chaanakya wrote:^^of course, I understand.



done SS

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby member_23692 » 25 Jul 2013 04:58

chaanakya wrote:^^of course, I understand.


Well, look at this.

Another daily stroll across the border into India by the Chinese. This one is datelined July 25 2013. Yet another result of "corruption" - "the victimless crime".


Chinese troops cross LAC again, this time in Uttarakhand
Shishir Gupta , Hindustan Times New Delhi, July 25, 2013
First Published: 01:18 IST(25/7/2013) | Last Updated: 02:22 IST(25/7/2013)


http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Chinese-troops-cross-LAC-again-this-time-in-Uttarakhand/Article1-1097868.aspx



This was the third straight intrusion this month apart from a face-off in Chumar on July 16-17, and another one on July 12-13 in Arunachal Pradesh.



The latest incursion took place just before joint secretary (East Asia) Guatam Bambawalla meet Chinese delegation headed by director general (Boundary Affairs) Ouyang Yujing to define steps to make the LAC stable.


“Normally, incursions are confined to Eastern Ladakh (Western) and Arunachal Pradesh (Eastern) with stray transgressions being noticed in Barahoti Plains (Middle sector) around August 15 each year. Yesterday’s intrusion was unusual in that context,” said a senior official.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby member_23692 » 25 Jul 2013 06:36

And this is how a "normal" nation handles incursions, NOT IN ITS TERRITORY, but NEAR its territory in International air space


Japan scrambles jets after China plane flies by southern islands


http://news.yahoo.com/japan-scrambles-jets-china-plane-flies-southern-islands-110905491.html


Abe has pledged to take a firm stance in the territorial dispute, but said in his news conference following the upper house election win that Japan's door was open to dialogue.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby Philip » 25 Jul 2013 07:45

This absurd situ reminds me of an old Polish joke during the Cold War.An angel appeared to the Poles and said that he would grant them two wishes.The overjoyed Poles then asked for their first wish,inviting the entire Chinese population to tea that weekend."No problem" said the angel,though puzzled by the strange request."What about the second?" he asked."Why,we want the Chinese to come again for tea the next weekend too" ,said the Poles.The angel was truly perplexed and asked for an explanation."Simple" said the Poles,"with 1 billion Chinese walking all over the Soviet Union to Poland and back,twice,they would stomp all the Russians to death!"

In like manner are the Chinese "coming to tea" in Ladakh on a regular basis.These weekly picnics establish a fait accompli.With the bunch of eunuchs ruining the nation as of now,they are already defeating us without having to fire a single shot!

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jul 2013 18:37

Chinese troops make fresh incursion bid - The Hindu
Close on the heels of over a dozen incursions since the face off in Ladakh in April from across the Line of Actual Control (LAC), Chinese troops made a fresh attempt to violate the International Border at Chumar area in North east of Leh on July 20 but were forced back by Indian troops.

The ‘assertive posturing’ by the Chinese troops, who had climbed a small mountain where they faced Indian troops, has been flashed to all units along the Sino-India border in the area to keep a strict vigil on their movement, official sources said on Thursday.

Chinese troops claimed it was their territory and they were headed towards to Tible area, five kilometres deep into the Indian Territory.

Chumar, which is located 300 kms from Leh, is the last town after which Himachal Pradesh starts. This area also has the distinction of having a defined International Border with China.

Chinese troops, who were confronted almost bang on the border by alert army and ITBP troops, said they needed to follow the orders PLA headquarters and conduct some photography in Tible area.

However, after a usual face-off drill, the Chinese troops who had to walk down a long stretch to reach Chumar, sought assistance in getting some food as they had run out of their stock, the sources said.

While no food was provided as the troops did not carry it with them, some cans of juices were given to the PLA soldiers, the sources said, adding the Chinese troops then retreated into their area.


All Indian units located along the LAC have been asked to maintain a tight vigil in their Area of Responsibilities (AOR) and launch frequent patrols to the higher reaches, the sources said.

Chumar has seen a number of incursion incidents in the recent past including an incident on June 17 where Chinese troops took away an Army surveillance camera meant for keeping an eye on the PLA troops patrolling there.

This is the same area where Chinese troops triggered tensions in April smashing some bunkers besides cutting wires of cameras installed at the border post.

Chumar has been an issue for China which claims it to be its own territory and have been frequenting it with helicopter incursions almost every year. Last year, it dropped some of the soldiers of PLA in this region and dismantled the makeshift storage tents of the Army and ITBP.

This area is not accessible from the Chinese side whereas the Indian side have a road almost to the last point on which the army can carry a load up to nine tonnes. {And yet, the Chinese have made repeated incursions. How ?}

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby ramana » 17 Jul 2017 23:22

UP. Now that Dokhlam plateau incident is taking center stage.


Four years ahead of the curve.

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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Postby ramana » 01 Nov 2017 22:02

This thread was ahead of its time by four years.
Yes the Chinese intruded in Dokhlam area.
India stood firm and
No war resulted.
In fact PLA got purged in the 19th Congress in China.

Will now close the thread. Very good idea of the thread.....


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