Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 14 Mar 2014 23:00

I am coming up with increasingly complicated scenarios. Just two among the many swirling through my mind.

1. A hijack that has gone wrong and the jet is at the bottom of the vast Indian Ocean.

2. A defection drama: Chinese mil. experts are defecting to US via DG. Those pax who agreed to witness protection program with a house in the burbs, job and new identity and million dollars per head will go into that program. Others will be released after the defectors and pliable pax are integrated into US citizenry. The story will come out after the achieving the mission objectives. But that is no casue for concern for US. None of the countries involved are going to cry foul. Cheen is seen as a threatening bully by one and all in that region plus India. The last heading is exactly 180 of the intended destination - pointing to Uighers or Cheen false flag where as the real destination is DG. The plane would have turned around to go to DG after the pings stopped. As for some pax missing the flight - may be they have calculated the fuel to the last 5% and they arranged so that luggage of some pax is offloaded. Also the plane might have been filled up exact amount of fuel with all the calculations done before - path to follow, distances, altitudes etc.

Yeah I know very "Night Without end" and "Ice Station Zebra"ish. Possible but improbable.

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 14 Mar 2014 23:01

If someone was so deliberate then it is not a suicide, it has been hijacked to be used as a missile later against either India, Israel or USA. This plane might be in east coast of africa, hidden inside a bunker, getting equipped with napalms. I am shocked to learn that the radar in Andamans are not turned on always, what kind of outpost is that?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Mar 2014 23:04

Are you going to pay for the radar spares when you know that AKA/MoD /PC/FM wont authorize it? And is there a war situation to turn on radars all the time? So you turn it on when there is threat perception.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Mar 2014 23:05

Yesterday's person talks about a decompression experience:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semp ... l#comments

I once experienced a explosive decompression in daylight conditions at 31,000 feet. I got the aircraft back under control at 5,000 feet. There is an instant fog in the cockpit, and you are blinded by that for about 10 seconds. Then every small and large piece of debris, tiny screws,washers, dirt,break away equipment,etc start hitting you in the face on the way out with the breathable air. Then all the gases inside your body start expanding to meet the new outside air pressure at 30,000 feet. On top of this,the mental effects of hypoxia and terror start kicking in immediately. Now,if you are lucky, you probably have 10 to 12 seconds left to reorient yourself, analyze what has happened, initiate your immediate action emergency procedures, and find your oxygen mask and get it on and functioning before you lose consciousness. This time frame is without complications, in my case the copilot's right side sinus immediately exploded inside his skull, he started spewing blood all over, went into convulsions and and started pushing the control column forward into a dive, which we barely recovered from. I tell you this not as a war story, but to point out how quickly things could have gone to hell inside 370's dark middle of the night cockpit.

He also says:

It is SOP for an international flight in difficulty to make a 45 to 90 degree turn left or right off of the assigned airway,if it can no longer maintain assigned speed and or altitude.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Mar 2014 23:06

X-posted fom Internal Security thread.

nawabs wrote:Remnants of LTTE trying to make Andaman and Nicobar islands safe haven?

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/re ... 13415.html
Are the islands of Andaman and Nicobar potential terror hubs? Yes, feels the administration of the Union Territory, which has said the possibility of left out LTTE cadre trying to make them a safe haven cannot be ruled out.

The administration has also conveyed to the government that foreigners from Myanmar, Bangladesh, Thailand and Sri Lanka often intrude into the archipelago.

The Home Ministry has told the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Home Affairs that according to the Union Territory Administration, Andaman and Nicobar Islands have settlers from Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Myanmar and possibility of these settlers being used "by elements from their erstwhile countries" cannot be ruled out.

"The UT government is of the view that left out LTTE cadre may look for safe havens in the near vicinity and may take advantage of our uninhabited islands for their temporary hideouts," the Home Ministry told the panel.

The Andaman and Nicobar Islands are situated in the Bay of Bengal at a distance of 1200 km from the mainland. These islands are spread over an area of 8249 sq km. This group comprises 572 islands of which only 38 are inhabited.

The island authority has conveyed that the local Tamil population in the islands, like other parts of the country, is also sympathetic to the cause of Sri Lankan Tamils.

Further, sympathy of Sri Lankan Tamil refugees who were brought and settled in these islands during 1960s and 1970s may be easily gained for abetting, aiding and assisting the LTTE outfit in providing temporary shelters under the thick forest covers in the islands.

"In fact the geographical locations and conditions make these islands an ideal place for providing safe havens for terrorist groups for jungle warfare training and even dumping grounds for arms and ammunition," the Standing Committee on Home Affairs has been informed.

Owing to its proximity to Myanmar (which is only 45 km from the northern most point of Andaman and Nicobar Islands and Indonesia is just 160 km from Campbell Bay), Thailand and Indonesia, a large number of foreigners intrude into Indian territory for poaching of marine resources.

Since a large number of islands are uninhabited and scattered over a large area in Andaman and Nicobar, the archipelago is easily accessible by anti-national elements. Bangladeshi nationals often intrude into these islands through sea route. A number of Bangladeshis have been arrested from the islands and deported.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2014 23:08

We don't have 1 fighter in entire south India. We are waiting for tejas mk2 or a jdam strike whichever comes first.

car Nicobar does not have 1 permanent fighter. Small units go for exercise then return.

we r nanga in our soft underbelly. All eyes look north and west.

sattili · Post by **sattili** » 14 Mar 2014 23:09

matrimc wrote: 2. A defection drama: Chinese mil. experts are defecting to US via DG. Those pax who agreed to witness protection program with a house in the burbs, job and new identity and million dollars per head will go into that program. Others will be released after the defectors and pliable pax are integrated into US citizenry. The story will come out after the achieving the mission objectives. But that is no casue for concern for US. None of the countries involved are going to cry foul. Cheen is seen as a threatening bully by one and all in that region plus India. The last heading is exactly 180 of the intended destination - pointing to Uighers or Cheen false flag where as the real destination is DG. The plane would have turned around to go to DG after the pings stopped. As for some pax missing the flight - may be they have calculated the fuel to the last 5% and they arranged so that luggage of some pax is offloaded. Also the plane might have been filled up exact amount of fuel with all the calculations done before - path to follow, distances, altitudes etc.

Yeah I know very "Night Without end" and "Ice Station Zebra"ish. Possible but improbable.

Well it could be other way round as well...whats with 20odd FreeScale employees on single plane going to Cheen. May be cheen made this drama so that the plane lands in some remote Chinese airstrip and these guys or others will vanish and gets integrated into their MIL complex with a house in Guangdong or other ding-dong province with lots of money. Remember its Cheen which is on the shopping spree for the tech

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 14 Mar 2014 23:12

Singha wrote:We don't have 1 fighter in entire south India. We are waiting for tejas mk2 or a jdam strike whichever comes first.

I remember worrying about this when LTTE was doing its best impression of a fly air force with a couple of ultralights.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2014 23:14

Er the ltte had piston engine Czech grob planes for dpsa.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Mar 2014 23:16

Why such statement at this Juncture: Some how relatedwith this MH flight incident..

SSridhar wrote:China Wants a Peaceful Neighbourhood: Li Keqiang - Ananth Krishnan, The Hindu
China’s Premier Li Keqiang said on Thursday during his annual interaction with the media that his government wanted to build a “favourable” neighbouring environment and narrow down differences with neighbours, amid recently flaring territorial disputes.Mr. Li said China had an “unshakeable will” in safeguarding its territory and sovereignty, but at the same time also had “an unwavering commitment” to ensuring a peaceful periphery.“As a developing country, China needs a favourable neighbouring and international environment for its modernisation,” he said at the press conference, held following the conclusion of the annual Parliament session.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 14 Mar 2014 23:21

shiv wrote:
matrimc wrote:If it was a hijack this is very daring and been executed with clockwork precision. Wow, bloody wow if that were to be the case.
wow bloody wow to Malaysian airline security.

Hakim saab, see my defection theory above. First all were searching on the wrong side anw everybody shifted to BoB and chennai near abouts. Who is feeding the info? Chewen knows they have been had and making hay to chart out Indian waters and orbat to claw a few but important data points.

sattili · Post by **sattili** » 14 Mar 2014 23:24

Wonder what our RISATs might be doing now since the search zones are now much closer to our waters

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 14 Mar 2014 23:26

sattili, aren't they chinese who are stationed in Malaysia? or the other way round? if it is the other way round, cheen had to wait till they touch down and make them an offer they can't refuse.

saip · Post by **saip** » 14 Mar 2014 23:37

Even Bangladesh is joining the search. Has Myanmar joined too?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 14 Mar 2014 23:37

Shifted again: seems to have washed right over ppl like a tsunami in deep water.

sattili · Post by **sattili** » 14 Mar 2014 23:39

matrimc wrote:sattili, aren't they chinese who are stationed in Malaysia? or the other way round? if it is the other way round, cheen had to wait till they touch down and make them an offer they can't refuse.

From here: http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtm ... ewsarticle

Freescale Semiconductor Employees Confirmed Passengers on Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370

AUSTIN, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Mar. 8, 2014-- Freescale Semiconductor (NYSE:FSL) has confirmed that 20 of its employees were confirmed passengers on Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. Twelve are from Malaysia and eight are from China.

saar what little knowledge I have from working for a semiconductor (aka chipmaker) company eons ago is that Malaysia was used by many of these massa companies as their APAC manufacturing base. Penang is the city where there lot of Assembly Test Manufacturing factories of several chipmakers are located. Several of those factories, design labs etc were opened decades earlier than anybody thought of opening such shops in cheen. So we can theorize that by scouring Malaysia, cheen can get hold of few good techs from these massa companies (both Chinese ethnicity or otherwise)-if that is what they are looking for. So a defection theory does seem a possibility. And no, the offer wont made be after they land. They will be on the plane only if they accepted the offer (my CT).

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 14 Mar 2014 23:41

Putting tin foil hat on:
Where were they "searching" when China came up with the sat pics? I suspect the USN minesweepers and sub hunters would have been onto something when they HAD to come up with a diversion to move everyone away from that spot.

Tin foil hat off:
I guess the sea floor seismic event might have been the semi frozen burrito I got from one of the Wal*Marts in the ice deserts of northern Montana. I had quite an adventure sometime back because of consuming that, did not know it could make such an impact so far away.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 14 Mar 2014 23:42

A_Gupta wrote:Yesterday's person talks about a decompression experience:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semp ... l#comments

I once experienced a explosive decompression in daylight conditions at 31,000 feet. I got the aircraft back under control at 5,000 feet. There is an instant fog in the cockpit, and you are blinded by that for about 10 seconds. Then every small and large piece of debris, tiny screws,washers, dirt,break away equipment,etc start hitting you in the face on the way out with the breathable air. Then all the gases inside your body start expanding to meet the new outside air pressure at 30,000 feet. On top of this,the mental effects of hypoxia and terror start kicking in immediately. Now,if you are lucky, you probably have 10 to 12 seconds left to reorient yourself, analyze what has happened, initiate your immediate action emergency procedures, and find your oxygen mask and get it on and functioning before you lose consciousness. This time frame is without complications, in my case the copilot's right side sinus immediately exploded inside his skull, he started spewing blood all over, went into convulsions and and started pushing the control column forward into a dive, which we barely recovered from. I tell you this not as a war story, but to point out how quickly things could have gone to hell inside 370's dark middle of the night cockpit.

OMG! A bit different from the movies they show you where you casually reach up and put on the gently dangling mask, then put it on the brat sitting in the next seat, hain?

saip · Post by **saip** » 14 Mar 2014 23:48

This is the most logical explanation I found so far as to why it went over towards the Indian Ocean:

Glynn said a pilot may have sought to fly the plane into the Indian Ocean to reduce the chances of recovering data recorders, and to conceal the cause of the disaster.

The China sea is shallow and the plane would have been found easily. But it could have continued straight and went into the Pacific ocean.

http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-color-red-missing-mh370-font-missing-plane-flew-over-malaysia-investigator-1.513440

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 14 Mar 2014 23:53

Singha wrote:Or a timed jdam blast on sea bottom near India is a loud n clear signal that non state actors now have tested devices and the world had better take note..today the sea..tmrw the hated crusaders in London, Rome and nyc.

lets watch how much enthu sher khan shows in Andaman area

I attended a lecture by a chemistry nobel laureate once. In the intro along with his professional accomplishments, the host also made it personal by saying that the said laureate is a wine connoisuer too. So when the laureate started the lecture by way of introduction of his research in layman terms he said the following:

paraphrase wrote:Let us assume that you empty the contents of a bottle of fine wine into the waters of Coney Island. Then after a few months you travel to Sydney for a conference and fill the empty bottle with water from Bondi beach. then I can tell you whether any molecules from the wine you emptied into Atlantic are found in this bottle of Ozzi waters.

My guess is, if indeed a JDAM was set off as a demo, current meaurement techniques would be able to tell the isotopes contaminants etc. along with where the yellow cake was mined or Pu from which reactor.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Mar 2014 23:54

If it crashed into the sea, someone explain to me why no signal from the ELT?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 14 Mar 2014 23:55

harbans wrote:If it crashed into the sea, someone explain to me why no signal from the ELT?

ELT signals don't have infinite range. If the aircraft is at the bottom of the ocean, the ELT signals will only be useful for finding the Black boxes after the approximate area of crash site is located.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 14 Mar 2014 23:56

sattili wrote:They will be on the plane only if they accepted the offer (my CT).

Then cheen can disappear them when they land, no? Unless somebody wanted to prevent the defection and hence hijack but things went wrong and a crash ensued

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Mar 2014 23:58

From what i read and i said this days earlier, it's been hijacked possibly landed Banda Aceh remote jungle prepared strip. What is happening there no clue. But sats should look up that part of Indonesia. Involvement nexus probably will include same similar elements in the Indonesian/Malay/Chinese Navies that were/are responsible for hijacking/piracy of vessels from Malacca straits to the South China seas. That is one of the most organized underground nexus of criminals in that part of the world.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 15 Mar 2014 00:02

A_Gupta wrote:He also says:
It is SOP for an international flight in difficulty to make a 45 to 90 degree turn left or right off of the assigned airway,if it can no longer maintain assigned speed and or altitude.

Unable to fathom (no pun intended) reason for this. Is it that the plane will crash into thickly populated areas?

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 15 Mar 2014 00:07

Is it not suspicious that all the big players are hunting so close to the Indian coastline. Not good

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 15 Mar 2014 00:08

nachiket wrote:ELT signals don't have infinite range. If the aircraft is at the bottom of the ocean, the ELT signals will only be useful for finding the Black boxes after the approximate area of crash site is located.

Do you know if the ELT signal is a Satellite signal? If so the land crash scenario can be discounted immediately. For instance at the Valujet 592 the FDR/CVR transmitted from under 10 feet of Florida muck and water and were located right away.

No ELT signal means it is at bottom of ocean somewhere, Probably IOR region. Which has been the most plausible from day one.

saip · Post by **saip** » 15 Mar 2014 00:09

Could it be that someone on the flight bought a large insurance policy? A policy like that would preclude suicide and so he had to wait an hour or so when CVR will be over written.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 15 Mar 2014 00:17

ME406 ELT
The Artex ME406, a single output ELT, utilizes the same RF output and only one coax cable to transmit a 406 MHz emergency signal to the Cospas/Sarsat satellites and a local 121.5 Homing signal. The ELT automatically activates during a crash and transmits a continuous swept tone of 121.5 MHz. During activation, the 406 MHz transmitter sends an encoded 5-watt signal to the Cospas-Sarsat Satellites every 50 seconds for 440 milliseconds to alert Search and Rescue.

ME406 ACE ELT
ME406 ACE ELT
The Artex ME406 ACE (Absolute Cost Efficiency), a single output ELT, utilizes the same RF output and only one coax cable, connecting to the new series of Artex single input antennas to transmit 121.5 and 406 MHz emergency signals to the Cospas/Sarsat satellites. The ELT automatically activates during a crash and transmits the standard swept tone on 121.5 MHz. Every 50 seconds, for 440 milliseconds, the 406 MHz transmitter turns on and sends an encoded 5-watt signal to alert Search and Rescue.

ME406 Portable ELT
ME406 Portable ELT
As a single-output Emergency Locator Transmitter, the Artex ME406P utilizes the same RF output to transmit 121.5 and 406 MHz emergency signals to the Cospas/Sarsat satellites. The ELT automatically activates during a crash and transmits a continuous swept tone of 121.5 MHz. During activation, the 406 MHz transmitter sends an encoded 5-watt signal every 50 seconds for 440 milliseconds to alert Search and Rescue.

Don't know which brand ELT this flight was using, but if it crashed IMO the ELT should be transmitting even to sats. It is not.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 15 Mar 2014 00:22

The real grand conspiracy is to show-up all the experts as tin-foil hat wearing xenophobs. I, for one, welcome our alien overlords that took this small flying object for their riligious rituals. Seriously, from mangolia -> malyasia (search leader) ->cheen (saterrite imagely) -> unkil (hamburger superpower) -> bangladesh....

Who is even left now? The second match in the series just started, and people are also peeling off towards crimea voting and batheoom door breaking with cricket bats. Once the media pressure dies down, may be there will be some progress. By the way, the best way to negotiate quietly with our alien overlords holding the plane would have been to say it was found at 100,000 meters depth and pieces will be brought up slowly AF447 style. end of story.

This is just everyone wishing their 15 minutes will never be over. 8 days is enough, we declare first match outcome: grand conspiracy -- 0, disintegration/decompression/accident -- 1. Accident moves on to play-offs as wild card.

PS -- ELT wont work so well if damaged or drowned.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 15 Mar 2014 00:25

ramana: Can one tell with certainty whether a given "undersea event" like this 5.5 seaquake, is 400% natural or has some JDAM energy release? Asking since the wave forms will be severely affected by water inertia or whatever, and the mushroom cloud may not make it to the surface of a deep sea like off Andamans?

Either way, an "undersea bum" is a neat way of ensuring that no floating scraps ever surface: all vaporized.

P.S., I don'f think BRFees here saw the story under the link or thought about the significance:

(CNN) -- A 5.5 magnitude earthquake struck in the sea off India's Andaman and Nicobar Islands on Friday evening, the U.S. Geological Survey said.
There were no immediate reports of damage or injuries, and no tsunami warning was immediately issued. The quake happened in the south Andaman Sea about 110 kilometers southeast of Mohean on Katchal Island, one of the Nicobar Islands, the USGS said. Though the Andaman and Nicobar Islands are Indian territory, they are on the eastern edge of the Bay of Bengal and are closer to other nations, including Indonesia and Myanmar.

komal · Post by **komal** » 15 Mar 2014 00:26

My conspiracy theory:

1) ISI plot to hit South India failed

2) Chinese/US know where plane crashed and want to remove the evidence of their proxy's involvement by recovering debris and, perhaps, moving it elsewhere.

3) Would have ended then and there with debris being found a few days later at new location

4) Communication mix up between China / USA. USA thought debris field would be moved closer to Diego Garcia, China thought debris field would be moved to South China Sea.

5) In the interim, Malaysian military realized that plane had entered Andaman area and reported to Indians (or Vietnamese overheard Chinese Navy and reported to Indians and Malays)

6) USA and China will now work overtime to dismiss any terror plot and focus pilot actions

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 15 Mar 2014 00:43

BTW have been refraining from comment, but the M5.5 China propaganda nonsense is just that, nonsense. There are about 25,000 earthquakes every year in the M4-5 Richter Scale range. So on any given day there are a couple of dozen of these going off. It is possible to differentiate between manmade versus natural shocks by the depth of the shock and following the aftershocks. The depth of the M5.5 2014-03-14 13:38:06 UTC East of Adaman was recorded @ ~10 km. And in very deep waters. Deeper than any drilling can go. The aftershock pattern indicates normal activity. The other problem is the sheer scale of a M5.5. A M5.5 packs the same energy, by my rough calculation as about 3500 Tons of TNT!! Even an Aircraft Carrier won't be big enough to hold it all. Such a chemical explosion even in deep water will leave a massive chemical trail that would be picked up in hours, esp. with everyone and their Grandma scouring those waters.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 15 Mar 2014 00:50

The issue is that India is being requested by the Malaysians to do X,Y and Z in a particular area. Has India corroborated the nature of the request and the validity and reliability of the data upon which it is deploying significant assets not to mention tolerating an armada and an air-flotilla in its immediate neighbourhood. Is Malaysia willing to share with India the US elint, signint and other data that is necessary or is it too sensitive?
I can't help feeling that Malays with their uniforms and decorations come across being rather too TFTA

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Mar 2014 01:26

Whoever plotted this read alistair maclean books end to end.

note to ulan..it could be me

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Mar 2014 02:01

India Expands Search for Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370
India should not be involved in this search. there is unnecessary focus on the location
Hunt for Plane Includes Andaman, Nicobar Islands

The search over land in the archipelago was made difficult because so much of it is uninhabited, according to Col. Singh of the tri-services command: If there were a crash, there is nobody to report it. He noted that the uninhabited areas don't include any airstrips. The search has been dubbed Operation Search Light by the Indian military.

India's capacity to conduct such a search was questioned by some naval experts. C. Uday Bhaskar, a retired Indian Navy commodore and former director of the National Maritime Foundation, said that although India's navy and coast guard have considerable maritime surveillance capabilities, "they are not specifically designed for this type of operation." He described the process as akin to "searching for a needle in a haystack, but 1,000 times larger and the haystack is moving."

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Mar 2014 02:03

Jarita wrote:Is it not suspicious that all the big players are hunting so close to the Indian coastline. Not good

Looks like a pretext to come close to Indian coastline

Any test being planned by IN
What about the boomers

saip · Post by **saip** » 15 Mar 2014 02:43

Now CNN is saying that the plane went up and down. It went from 23000' to 45000' . Someone is trying for control of the aircraft? They showed a simulated landing in Andamans.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 15 Mar 2014 02:56

People are going about this the wrong way.. they should really be searching for Mik Kanrokitoff.... The parallels are unbelievable.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Mar 2014 03:05

UB you answer here:

Theo_Fidel wrote:BTW have been refraining from comment, but the M5.5 China propaganda nonsense is just that, nonsense. There are about 25,000 earthquakes every year in the M4-5 Richter Scale range. So on any given day there are a couple of dozen of these going off. It is possible to differentiate between manmade versus natural shocks by the depth of the shock and following the aftershocks. The depth of the M5.5 2014-03-14 13:38:06 UTC East of Adaman was recorded @ ~10 km. And in very deep waters. Deeper than any drilling can go. The aftershock pattern indicates normal activity. The other problem is the sheer scale of a M5.5. A M5.5 packs the same energy, by my rough calculation as about 3500 Tons of TNT!! Even an Aircraft Carrier won't be big enough to hold it all. Such a chemical explosion even in deep water will leave a massive chemical trail that would be picked up in hours, esp. with everyone and their Grandma scouring those waters.

The depth of quake shows its a natural event.

Theo, Richter 5.5 Mb is about 50 kilotons. Not 3.5kT! So its a much bigger scale.