Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

member_28502 · Post by **member_28502** » 12 Mar 2014 22:50

LTTE is present where there is cash business, hotels in Toronto Gare Du North in Paris ( all store are Sril Lankan and have Prabhakarn photos openly) Amsterdam, every where cash and Narcotics there is LTTE

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 12 Mar 2014 23:11

Malaysia Airlines plane 'could have landed'
The expert on the audio says that a phone if somehow stays inside a water-tight part of the debris (assuming a crash) can ring on being called.
If it rings it can be located too. Right?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 12 Mar 2014 23:14

only it it is within cellular range

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 12 Mar 2014 23:18

Or if they forgot their phones home.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2014 23:20

Then again, suppose they flashed on the military radar going westwards at 2:40AM, then ducked back down and crossed right back at low altitude the way they came, going east?

If they were smart enough to do all the rest so accurately, this would ensure that they had perfect disappearance. What is to the east and not in areas of heavy military observation, other than Indonesia? Too late to be hitting downtown Singapore (I hope!!) or maybe it's not. Remember 1970s/80s PLO hijackings with ppl held in the desert?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 12 Mar 2014 23:20

It would take all of Ulan Bator creativity for outlined conspiracies to materialize. Simpler possibilities say, it crashed and may even never be found.

Trained monkeys will land a 777 short of a fully functional runway, and these superhumans are supposed to have done it where none has landed before and at night. And then hidden it before daylight. And plan on taking off again! I dont see it happenning. UFO abduction for cavity examination is more likely.

All sorts of conspiracies are possible, not just the brown-skinned ones. And lets not make a plane comparable to a nukular bumb, even fully loaded it wont do anything comparable to 9/11 damage on a non world trade center style super duper tall building.

Either way, a whole new level of paranoia is upon us even if this turns out to be purely equipment related. All that is needed is that ACARS be mandated at minute level and provided free to get rid of cost conscious holdouts. Instead, you will see passanger facing bullshit with every idiot in uniform becoming an immigration officer even on domestic flights

Keeping their mouths shut would have done everyone a great favor, but the malaysians have got the wrong people under the lights.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2014 23:23

Paul Charles, the former director of Virgin Atlantic, said the scenario was "farfetched" but "possible."
Flight MH370, which had 239 on board, disappeared on Saturday without sending a distress signal.
Mr Charles told BBC Radio 5 live's Breakfast: "If you're not transmitting anything from an aircraft and you've managed to avoid radar in some way... then absolutely it's feasible."

That was fast. BRF lurker no doubt. :LOL

Read that and weep, Shreemanji. UB Rumors was there looong b4 Virjin Atlantique.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 12 Mar 2014 23:33

UlanBatori wrote:
Paul Charles, the former director of Virgin Atlantic, said the scenario was "farfetched" but "possible."
Flight MH370, which had 239 on board, disappeared on Saturday without sending a distress signal.
Mr Charles told BBC Radio 5 live's Breakfast: "If you're not transmitting anything from an aircraft and you've managed to avoid radar in some way... then absolutely it's feasible."
That was fast. BRF lurker no doubt. :LOL

Read that and weep, Shreemanji. UB Rumors was there looong b4 Virjin Atlantique.

I weep, and still vote for decompression/disintegration. Wreckage now to be found only if on land, or by accident.

Mangolian votes are for sophisticated conspiracy, with betting money provided by virjin atlantique. So I suppose you have nothing to worry.

Here is the count:

Disintegration: 1
Grand Conspiracy: 2*
Other possibilities:0
Passport procedure changes in news so far: 0

*Mongolian votes are counted as twice as valuable due to tenure and aggsprtize. Other conspiracy votes will still be single.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 12 Mar 2014 23:37

I think the CT guys should officially get their tin foil hats now. Other than disintegration in a possibly unchartered area in the southern Indian ocean, I dont see anything else going on. Ohh.. and alien abduction

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 12 Mar 2014 23:48

UB: Those 16 steps seems to be like a Rube Goldberg Machine type. Looks too complex for a simple task.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 13 Mar 2014 00:20

Malaysia Airlines CEO unsure if vital repairs done to MH370

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking ... e-to-mh370

In what may yet be a critical issue in the disappearance of MH370, Malaysia Airlines CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya could not last night (12 March) confirm that a vital airworthiness directive concerning metal fatigue cracks had been carried out on the missing Boeing 777-200.

The directive which was first proposed by the US Federal Aviation Administration last year after a substantial crack was found in the skin of the outer fuselage of a 16 year old earlier model 777 underneath a communications satellite antenna.

At that time the FAA told airlines with older 777s, that the proposed airworthiness directive “would require repetitive inspections of the visible fuselage skin and doubler if installed, for cracking, corrosion, and any indication of contact of a certain fastener to a bonding jumper, and repair if necessary. We are proposing this AD to detect and correct cracking and corrosion in the fuselage skin, which could lead to rapid decompression and loss of structural integrity of the airplane.’’

The FAA did not make the final order effective until 18 February, five days before the older model Malaysia Airlines 777 underwent an A check in an engineering facility at Auckland.

The question asked of Malaysia Airlines at the day five MH370 media update was pertinent, because if undetected and unrepaired, it could cause an affected jet to slowly depressurize, which as the technical forum Pprune has already discussed, could lead to pilot incapacitation.

While this scenario advanced on Pprune.org ignored the opportunity pilots would have to resort to emergency oxygen supplies, it could if everything went wrong, lead to a crash after consciousness and control was lost.

The possibility that such an undetected and unrepaired flaw might have brought down MH370 seems remote.

However in a disturbing report in the The China Times, later last Saturday, when MH370 disappeared early in its flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, its web site claimed that US military bases in Thailand had overheard an emergency transmission from the jet claiming the cabin ‘faced disintegration’ and an emergency landing was being sought.

The report is in Chinese here, and the Google translation is almost unintelligible, as auto translations often are. Were it not for the airworthiness directive concerning possible fuselage failure points on older 777s, it would probably never have been given a second glance.

It could be that Ahmad Jauhari was simply unprepared for the question as to Malaysia Airlines’ compliance with the airworthiness directive, and that the checks and any necessary repairs stipulated by Boeing had in fact been carried out before the jet that operated MH370 took off. Or, it might be that this work wasn’t done, or done properly, with terrible consequences for the 239 people on the missing 777-200.

It is a question that Malaysia Airlines should answer.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Mar 2014 00:30

How old was the Boeing 777 that was designated MH-370? The AD was issued after a 16 year old plane developed metal cracks. So until the age is an issue the Ad might not be a concern.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Mar 2014 00:34

A delayed depressurization would have to be abrupt right. In which case the crew would have had 3-4 minutes to get to breathable elevation. What am I missing?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Mar 2014 00:36

ramana wrote:How old was the Boeing 777 that was designated MH-370? The AD was issued after a 16 year old plane developed metal cracks. So until the age is an issue the Ad might not be a concern.

FROM WIKI

Flight 370 was operated by a Boeing 777-2H6ER,[a] serial number 28420, registration 9M-MRO. The 404th Boeing 777 produced, it first flew on 14 May 2002, and was delivered new to Malaysia Airlines on 31 May 2002. The aircraft was powered by two Rolls-Royce Trent 892 engines,[71] and was configured to carry 282 passengers: 35 in business class and 247 in economy class.[72] According to the airline, it had accumulated 53,460 hours and 7,525 cycles in service.[73] 9M-MRO had not previously been involved in any major incidents;[74] a minor incident while taxiing at Shanghai Pudong International Airport in August 2012 resulted in significant damage to one of its wingtips, which broke off after striking the tail of another airliner.[75] Its last maintenance check was in February 2014, which is 12 days before the incident.[73]

The Boeing 777 is generally regarded by aviation experts as having an "almost flawless" safety record,[76] one of the best of any commercial aircraft.[77] Since its first commercial flight in June 1995, there have only been two previous serious accidents. In January 2008, 47 passengers were injured when ice crystals in the fuel system of British Airways Flight 38 caused it to lose power and crash-land just short of the runway at London Heathrow Airport. In July 2013, three passengers died and 181 were injured as a result of that accident when Asiana Airlines Flight 214 crash-landed on final approach to San Francisco International Airport.[78] Both aircraft were damaged beyond repair.[79]

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Mar 2014 00:37

Yes I too found the same.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Mar 2014 00:56

Oh! Oh!!!

China asks Malaysia to tell the truth

Missing Malaysia Airlines plane: China asks Malaysia to tell truth

Last Updated: Thursday, March 13, 2014, 00:54

Beijing: Annoyed over conflicting reports about the missing plane, China on Wednesday night asked Malaysia to verify rumours and share all information about the flight MH370 after official admission that it may have turned back and disappeared over the Straits of Malacca.

"We have send requests to the Malaysian side through diplomatic channels, asking them to check up on rumours right away and inform China of all information available," Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said in a statement.

Qin's remark came after a Malaysian military official said the missing flight may have changed route and turned back from its scheduled course before disappearing last Saturday.

Anxieties mounted in China as 154 of the 227 passengers are Chinese and their relatives are annoyed over the confusion and lack of progress even five days after the incident.

....

Maybe the Malaysian diskapeared the airliner and landed it in a disused WWII airifield!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 Mar 2014 01:05

And Malaysia asked India IN to help in search with Indian Navy in the waters

Ha Ha Ha!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 13 Mar 2014 02:00

CNN claiming that China State Science and Fabrication and Photoshop Administration claims that their satellite saw pieces of what looked like wreckage on Sunday in the sea, just getting around to ana-Lie-zing it now. No details. I think this is response to earlier news story which blamed their satellite guys&gals for not doing their job.

Point is that if such pieces fell in 150-foot deep water, that means a/c disintegrated, and things like seat cushions should have been found floating by now along with passengers' belongings. And bodies.

So now:
1. Oil rig "aircraft on fire" story
2. Vietnamese oil slick story
3. Vietnam "door" story
4. Fishermen "damaged raft" story
5. China bureaucrats "pieces of wreckage Sunday" story

All in different parts. Wonder why Pakistan News Agency has not yet reported that PIA saw the plane being eaten by Godzilla.
Actual Chinese scientists' statements
Dr Chi Tianhe, a researcher in satellite imaging with the Chinese Academy of Sciences who took part in the search. (Now on his way to Gobi Fertile Valley Onion Cultivation Preparation & Re-education Facility):

Several hours after Malaysia Airlines announced that the plane had disappeared, China used its satellites to scour the waters between Vietnam and Malaysia, state media said. They were part of a multinational effort using military equipment. The search has failed to find survivors, wreckage or debris. .. Professor Wu Dong, a satellite remote-sensing expert with the Ocean University of China in Qingdao, said the lack of satellite evidence of the plane suggested that the designated search zones could be wrong. Professor Xie Tao, an expert in ocean satellite remote-sensing at Nanjing University of Information Science and Technology, said it was possible that the resolution of the satellites doing the search was not high enough, an assertion that Chi disputed. "The waves would also distort microwave images and make analysis difficult," Xie said. And time was of the essence. "The longer the search takes, the farther the debris would be carried away by currents from the crash site."
For three days, Chinese researchers have employed high-resolution satellite imaging equipment to search for the Boeing aircraft. This has included satellites with many different sensors, including high-resolution optical telescopes, infrared cameras, synthetic aperture radar and microwave detectors. The search project has also used military satellites with classified technological details. In addition, China has paid overseas commercial satellite companies to use their advanced satellites and to obtain their data. The satellite equipment allowed researchers to examine specific areas of the sea for wreckage and debris day and night, under all kinds of weather conditions, Chi said.
Chi would not comment as to the size of objects that the satellites could detect but added that the resolution was "definitely high enough for the job". Some US and Canadian satellites can distinguish an object as small as half a metre in size, but the ocean waves could make precise detection difficult. "If the object is non-metalic, such as plastic, it would be very difficult to spot with radar," Xie said. While civilian satellites might have difficulty finding debris, military spy satellites should be able to do the job because they are designed to search for very small targets, Wu said. Chinese warships have prowled the sea using powerful surface radar to detect objects on the sea's surface, and sonar to find underwater wreckage.

Wu said it was possible, judging from the lack of wreckage, that the plane made a successful water landing, but then sank to the ocean floor in one piece. "But if the crew achieved such a miracle, why didn't they radio for help?" Wu asked. "From a technical point of view, I cannot find a good explanation for the complete disappearance." The lack of evidence also frustrates Chi. "If such a large plane had fallen in the ocean, it would leave some signs on the surface," he said. "The plane seems to have disappeared completely. To us it is unreasonable."

Me too .. Ulan Batori

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Mar 2014 02:03

Theo_Fidel wrote:A delayed depressurization would have to be abrupt right. In which case the crew would have had 3-4 minutes to get to breathable elevation. What am I missing?

The possibility that before the crew could complete the first reaction to any kind of trouble (for example to reduce elevation), the electric control system and the RAT fallback also failed.

The first priority of the crew to any emergency is to make sure everything survives, contacting the ATC is secondary.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Mar 2014 02:07

Thanx Lokesh, so a snowball situation can still happen...

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 13 Mar 2014 02:10

UlanBatori wrote:Then there is some water-activated beacon there, I am fairly sure. Don't know what kind. Even the
individual life-jackets have a water-activated beacon, I think.

IIRC, there is also some dye that spreads in the water.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Mar 2014 02:12

Theo,
Thats the only explanation that I can think of. But given the number of redundancies in the 777 (3 independent hydraulic power sources and systems, multiple independent control avionics, manual backups for everything etc), unless a catastrophic snowball situation is the explanation then the only possibility is alien abduction( or a terrorism CT

)

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 13 Mar 2014 02:13

Per BeeBeeSee:

The website of China's State Administration of Science carries three satellite images taken on Sunday - a day after the plane went missing.

The images, which appear to show fragments in the sea, were only published on Wednesday. Co-ordinates alongside them would place the objects in the South China Sea between Malaysia and Vietnam.

The Administration's PhotoShop Division is now working hard on new images showing objects in the Malaccan Straits, and some in the Bering Sea. - UB News

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Mar 2014 02:17

UB, What if it was all a hoax? All we have is the Malay radar reports. No one ever saw anything else so far.

Jokes apart everyone wonders how can sucha a big plane disappear?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Mar 2014 02:20

I've brought this issue up on a few occasions,the increasing use of composites and the issue of cracks.Boeing's "Nightmare",aka,Dreamliner,has been plagued by manufacturing cracks and some other minor glitches that has affected its smooth induction into airline service.A sudden cockpit catastrophe incapacitating the crew is perhaps the most likely reason,outside anything more sinister. The Malaysians though ,with their dribbles of info are behaving as if they know a lot more than they're letting on. Perhaps its the huge embarrassment of such a catastrophe for a tightly controlled state apparatus,who are trying to cover up any glaring liability on their side.

What is intriguing is the mysterious "about turn" track from a point intersecting the flight path of the MH jet. Listening to the Malaysian mil. official,he specifically said that "we don't know whether it was the aircraft or another one".Is the Malaysian air defence system so poor that it cannot determine the kind of aircraft that crossed its landmass from the Gulf of Siam into the Straits of Malacca?!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 13 Mar 2014 02:22

The pressure on the Chinese scientists must be immense. TEN satellites tasked. What if the roundeye sdre Indians find all the passengers and crew dancing the Pahatha Rata Natum and passing bottles of arrack around a campfire in eastern SL first?

Heads will roll, to put it mildly.

Meanwhile, more on the Chinese report: (I could not find the website):

China's State Administration for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense announced the discovery, including images of what it said were "three suspected floating objects and their sizes." The objects aren't small at 13 by 18 meters (43 by 59 feet), 14 by 19 meters and 24 by 22 meters.

The images were captured on March 9 -- which was the day after the plane went missing -- but weren't released until Wednesday.

The Chinese agency gave coordinates of 105.63 east longitude, 6.7 north latitude, which would put it in waters northeast of where it took off in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, and south of Vietnam.

This isn't the first time authorities have announced they were looking at objects or oil slicks that might be tied to aircraft. Still, it is the latest

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 13 Mar 2014 02:23

There is something seriously wrong in the way the Malaysian authorities are responding. They are not explaining why they are searching all over the place. Couple of their officials said "we can share that information with you at this time" for some of the questions asked. Something is seriously wrong

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Mar 2014 02:25

Given all the tension in South China Sea. This is an awesome testament on how radar-aware different countries are in that region

Dlagon may have lost of bunch of people, but it should be extremely preased that it can sneak into the airspace when it wants.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Mar 2014 02:43

LokeshC wrote:{quote="Theo_Fidel"}A delayed depressurization would have to be abrupt right. In which case the crew would have had 3-4 minutes to get to breathable elevation. What am I missing?{/quote}

The possibility that before the crew could complete the first reaction to any kind of trouble (for example to reduce elevation), the electric control system and the RAT fallback also failed.

The first priority of the crew to any emergency is to make sure everything survives, contacting the ATC is secondary.

LokeshC ji

For the kind of scenario you have depicted, the decompression would have to have been instantaneous and catastrophic. This would have occurred at or near the cruising altitude. While overflying water, the distress call will be made 9 times out of ten unless the flight crew were incapacitated or overwhelmed in handling the fast developing crisis.

The debris field would be very large and by now some composite debris from various fuselage parts etc should have been sighted / picked up.

If over land, then the (multiple) ELT transmissions on distress frequencies would have have automatically been actuated because these ELTs generally have a G switch that triggers the radio transmission when impacted with an acceleration exceeding 11G. Multiple satellites would automatically and immediately picked up the same and triangulated the position.

Over the sea, Sonar transmissions from the sonar locator beacons will go on for a few days and those have not been located yet (or disclosed). These generally have sea water batteries that actuate immediately on contact with sea water. You can bet that many chinese and Malaysian(?) and other lurking subs would have already be out, looking and listening. TV pictures of helo dunking sonars have also been shown though I doubt many would recognize it for what it actually is. There is a finite window before the SLB batteries die out. So there will be a great sense of urgency among the rescue teams to locate the sonar signal.

CVR/DFDR will have something on it, for sure. But that's for much later, if ever located.

RAT would not be used at that altitude and speed.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 13 Mar 2014 02:45

UlanBatori wrote:Meanwhile, more on the Chinese report: (I could not find the website):
China's State Administration for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense announced the discovery, including images of what it said were "three suspected floating objects and their sizes." The objects aren't small at 13 by 18 meters (43 by 59 feet), 14 by 19 meters and 24 by 22 meters.

Those pieces sound way too big to be from the plane, unless someone cut the plane up and ran it through a hot roller to flatten it out before dropping it in the water with something to help it float.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Mar 2014 03:05

Suraj wrote:{quote="UlanBatori"}Meanwhile, more on the Chinese report: (I could not find the website):
China's State Administration for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense announced the discovery, including images of what it said were "three suspected floating objects and their sizes." The objects aren't small at 13 by 18 meters (43 by 59 feet), 14 by 19 meters and 24 by 22 meters.{/quote}
Those pieces sound way too big to be from the plane, unless someone cut the plane up and ran it through a hot roller to flatten it out before dropping it in the water with something to help it float.

May be their stolen technology got the sizes wrong but give then credit for trying.

Someone will investigate these objects and their GPS location may help the authorities to co relate the picture with the radar contact inputs that they may already have.

The malaysians just may not have the resources to conduct and coordinate such a gargantuan task of location a missing airliner with practically zilch to go on.

Many national egos at play here and the chinese have their alleged superpower status to reinforce and showcase on the world stage.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 13 Mar 2014 03:13

Can't we fly our P8Is and try to see if the on-board MAD detects anything? At least in the Andaman sea. The 777 was not composite heavy, surely something would show up?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 13 Mar 2014 03:20

The airframe is largely non-ferromagnetic aluminium, so MAD sensors are not as useful as compared to detecting a submarine hull.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 13 Mar 2014 03:23

^^Thanks, that makes sense.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Mar 2014 03:44

arshyam wrote:Can't we fly our P8Is and try to see if the on-board MAD detects anything? At least in the Andaman sea. The 777 was not composite heavy, surely something would show up?

Best bet would be the Dorniers (IN +CG) and their elta radars.

Larger numbers, more area can be covered and brighter the chances of location with more eyes and sensors. Of course the range is not as much nor the endurance comparable to the P8Is

The Tu could cover a lot of acreage but best bet would be radar and eyeball MK 1

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Mar 2014 04:13

Suraj,

Metal detectors are set off by Gold which is also non-magnetic right. So Aluminium should be detectable, there may not be enough metal though for detection from distance. Even the biggest Aircraft only have about 100 tons of metal, empty weight.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Mar 2014 04:20

Theo_Fidel wrote:Suraj,

Metal detectors are set off by Gold which is also non-magnetic right. So Aluminium should be detectable, there may not be enough metal though for detection from distance. Even the biggest Aircraft only have about 100 tons of metal, empty weight.

MAD = Magnetic anomaly detector, not metal detector.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 13 Mar 2014 04:26

A metal detector is probably useless. There must be dozens of ships sunk down there, so that it would ring continuously. Further, my understanding is that a MAD sensor would need a moving object to detect the changes in magnetic field. If the plane's lying underwater, the best option is to use ships or subs that listen for the locator sounds from the CVR/FDR or ELT.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Mar 2014 04:47

Suraj wrote:A metal detector is probably useless. There must be dozens of ships sunk down there, so that it would ring continuously. Further, my understanding is that a MAD sensor would need a moving object to detect the changes in magnetic field. If the plane's lying underwater, the best option is to use ships or subs that listen for the locator sounds from the CVR/FDR or ELT.

Suraj ji,
Locator sounds will come for limited period of time, ( until the battery dies out, 50-60 hours or thereabouts, after the activation, IIRC ) from Sonar Locator Beacon onlee. Barring the SLB, the rest of the alphabets you mentioned will not make even the tiniest of peeps underwater.

Theory.....(Distress) frequencies of 121.500 MHz and 243.000 MHz will attenuate underwater completely in very very short distance. Nothing will pick up such radio signals underwater.

Only things to work will mile long antennas towed behind submarines and very very high powered VLF signals in terms of kilo and megawatts

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 13 Mar 2014 04:52

chetak wrote:
Suraj ji,
Locator sounds will come for limited period of time, ( until the battery dies out, 50-60 hours or thereabouts, after the activation, IIRC ) from Sonar Locator Beacon onlee. Barring the SLB, the rest of the alphabets you mentioned will not make even the tiniest of peeps underwater.

If you are talking about the locator beacons on the black boxes, they work for 30 days.