Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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Thakur_B
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 18 Jan 2015 10:49

Austin wrote:^^ A lot of assumption there when it says Brahmos has no intelligence , There are talks ( unconfirmed ) that Brahmos can work in wolf pack style along the lines of Shipwreck and there are algorithims that would attack a target in different trajectory not just S type , Also in the video Dr Saraswat mentioned in future Brahmos will have RF and IIR seeker.

Dr Pillai stated that Brahmos would remain undefeated in next 15 years he must have good insight into the system to say that.


The all aspect attack including the "side slam" mode will feature in block IV Brahmos.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby kit » 18 Jan 2015 15:55

Are we trying to scare the americans :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Vipul » 18 Jan 2015 17:28

Exclusive: Super-charged Agni-5 farewell awaits DRDO Chief.

A fitting tribute for his four-decades-plus selfless work awaits India's top missile brain and outgoing Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) Chief Dr Avinash Chander. Top sources have confirmed to OneIndia on Saturday that the much-talked about canisterized version (cold launch) of the surface-to-surface Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) Agni-5 will now in all likelihood be held on January 31 from Wheeler Island, off the Odisha coast.

On the same day, Dr Avinash will step down as the DRDO chief following the Modi government's bolt-from-the-blue decision to terminate his contract, citing his age and ‘inability' to change the system. Top scientists from DRDO's eight labs have begun the preparations for the critical trial of the 5000-km missile, with the launch campaign teams having started to move to Odisha. If all plans go as per the script and the missile zeroes in on its target, then it would be an emotion-charged reply by Dr Chander's shishyas to the ‘Yes Ministers' in the government.

For Dr Chander too, it will pave the way for a head-held-high exit from the top office, which he otherwise was eligible to occupy till May 2016. A section of the media had earlier reported that Prime Minister Narendra Modi was expected to witness the 3rd launch of A5, with no official confirmation coming from the PMO or the Ministry of Defence. In short, India will probably witness for the first time the launch of a nuclear-capable missile, tipped with emotion, anger and gratitude. Third launch of Agni 5 This will be the third launch of Agni-5 (A5-03 mission) from a road mobile launcher.

The Gas Generator System (GGS) with a compact solid rocket motor housed inside the canister is used for ejecting the missile out of canister. Once the missile is out of the canister, a Stage-1 rocket motor is ignited, setting the missile on its course. Agni-5 is a three-stage, solid propelled, road mobile, state-of-the-art nuclear capable long-range ballistic missile (LRBM). With a launch mass of 50T, it is capable of delivering a payload of one tonne over a range of 5000 km. All the three stages are controlled by flex nozzle control system and guided by an Innovative Inertial Energy Management Explicit Guidance The first two launches of Agni-5 were carried out in Hot Launch Configuration, with the first one (A5-01) on April 19, 2012 and second one ((A5-02) on September 15, 2013. Both missions were successful with a high-impact accuracy and all the mission objectives achieved.

With the successful launch of A5-01 and A5-02, complete mission and system design of Agni-5 was proven. Dr Avinash - the main architect of A5 Post-news of the termination of Dr Avinash, the Directors of various labs under the Missile Complex are said to be having a difficult time handling the emotions of younger members of the team. "We are finding it tough to up the morale of the youngsters. Just by mixing two solutions in a lab, you can't become a scientist. The government seems to have forgotten our sacrifices and the contributions of a great soul in our chief," a DRDO director told OneIndia from Delhi over the phone.

As the main architect of the Agni-5 missile system, Dr Avinash is looked up to as a great visionary with technical excellence and a wide spectrum of knowledge in the field of strategic systems. "Be it electrical, electronics, mechanical, aeronautical or any other discipline, none can match his technical competence.There is no parallelism which can be drawn with him in this field," the official said. Exemplary leadership

Most of the people who shared their experiences with OneIndia were of the opinion that Dr Avinash was the sole individual responsible for outsmarting the technology control regimes, which consistently denied critical know-how to India. "He envisioned and carried out design and indigenous development of various critical technologies including propulsion systems, composite rocket motors, aerospace mechanisms, structural design, re-entry vehicle design, missile integration, advanced high accuracy navigation systems, robust avionics systems, mission design and design of multi-stage guidance algorithms to name a etc," says another colleague of the DRDO chief.

Interestingly, much before the Modi govt rolled out the ‘Make in India' campaign, DRDO insiders say that on the missile development front, Dr Avinash ensured that self-reliance was achieved in an enviable manner. "He had set the tone for many initiatives including identifying seven labs for youngsters to run. He seldom took any credit for his work," the official said. Father of Indian nav systems

One of the significant contributions of Dr Avinash is his introduction of the concept of ‘strap-down inertial navigation' in India. "Today all aerospace systems right from systems with few metres to thousands of kilometres are deployed with this wonder concept. To us, he is the ‘Father of Indian navigation systems. We are happy that our biggest parting gift to him will be the successful launch of A5 missile. We want to give him a dignified farewell," an official said.

No media interaction, focused on work While Dr Avinash has stayed away from the media ever since the news of his termination emerged, sources confirm to OneIndia that the missile scientist has now reached Hyderabad. "We received him at the airport on Friday morning and he is calm and composed. He has been conducting various review meetings and thrashing out technical points that came up for discussions. He is not encouraging any talk on his possible sudden exit," an official said.

So, whether PM Narendra Modi finds the time to witness the A5 launch or not, after his bonding session with US President Barrack Obama, there's one thing the weathermen are already predicting, off the Odisha coast for January 31. "Clear skies, misty eyes and heavy downpour of emotions."

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby prashanth » 18 Jan 2015 19:27

Reg. termination of Dr. Chander's contract, Why aren't opposition of our parliment creating ruckus? Or have we missed it?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28108 » 18 Jan 2015 19:40

prashanth wrote:Reg. termination of Dr. Chander's contract, Why aren't opposition of our parliment creating ruckus? Or have we missed it?

I ahve agreat CT idea but not the place to discuss :)

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28932 » 19 Jan 2015 09:35

Eric Leiderman wrote:A link to Brahmos and its defence from a western perspective.

Also touches on the Barak 8 wrt Brahmos

http://defencyclopedia.com/2014/12/27/e ... s-missile/


The chinese solution to Brahmos

http://idrw.org/?p=56315

However the claims made here against a volley of Brahmos missiles , with an s manouver, (no details on slew/angle to horizontal wrt time might be able to get 2-4 of the volley.


Excellent Article on brahmos. I like this part Most.

"Since the Barak-8 can have a continuous lock on the incoming missile with its own radar and the MF-STAR can guide 24 Barak-8 missiles to 12 targets simultaneously, the saturation limit for a Kolkata class destroyer against the BrahMos stands at 12 missiles. This however is a contradiction in itself as the Kolkata class carries the BrahMos as well as the Barak-8. This means that the Indian Navy deploys the poison and the antidote on the same platform."

With best in class antiship missile and missile defense like MRSAM, our ships are going to the most deadly and scarry platfom on sea. We need some more eloctronic counter measure to make them more potent platforms.

Nice to read about the potency of Brahmos and MRSAM from american sources.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 19 Jan 2015 10:16

Thakur_B wrote:The all aspect attack including the "side slam" mode will feature in block IV Brahmos.


What is side slam mode?

Another aspect would be RCS treatement of these missile not sure of Brahmos goes through it but that can further reduce RCS

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby John » 19 Jan 2015 10:25

Vipul Dave wrote:
Excellent Article on brahmos. I like this part Most.

"Since the Barak-8 can have a continuous lock on the incoming missile with its own radar and the MF-STAR can guide 24 Barak-8 missiles to 12 targets simultaneously, the saturation limit for a Kolkata class destroyer against the BrahMos stands at 12 missiles. This however is a contradiction in itself as the Kolkata class carries the BrahMos as well as the Barak-8. This means that the Indian Navy deploys the poison and the antidote on the same platform."

With best in class antiship missile and missile defense like MRSAM, our ships are going to the most deadly and scarry platfom on sea. We need some more eloctronic counter measure to make them more potent platforms.

Nice to read about the potency of Brahmos and MRSAM from american sources.


The statement about barak 8 is inaccurate and contradictory they are confusing mf star ability to guide missiles with active guided barak 8. There is no limits on how many targets barak 8 system can intercept.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby brar_w » 19 Jan 2015 11:00

John wrote:
Vipul Dave wrote:
Excellent Article on brahmos. I like this part Most.

"Since the Barak-8 can have a continuous lock on the incoming missile with its own radar and the MF-STAR can guide 24 Barak-8 missiles to 12 targets simultaneously, the saturation limit for a Kolkata class destroyer against the BrahMos stands at 12 missiles. This however is a contradiction in itself as the Kolkata class carries the BrahMos as well as the Barak-8. This means that the Indian Navy deploys the poison and the antidote on the same platform."

With best in class antiship missile and missile defense like MRSAM, our ships are going to the most deadly and scarry platfom on sea. We need some more eloctronic counter measure to make them more potent platforms.

Nice to read about the potency of Brahmos and MRSAM from american sources.


The statement about barak 8 is inaccurate and contradictory they are confusing mf star ability to guide missiles with active guided barak 8. There is no limits on how many targets barak 8 system can intercept.


Hence we can assume the saturation limit for a single Burke stands at 12 BrahMos missiles.


He is assuming away without providing much for any conceptual comparison..Why 12, why not 10? Why not 15? The SM6 has OTH capability and does not require ship sensor illumination and the same goes for the B8 as you rightly point out. Not a very well crafted comparison. No debate on an AshM's employer and a ship's defender's ability to accomplish the task on hand can be completed without first discussing the basic underlying doctrine of how the Navy chooses to operate in a contested environment, and how an adversary chooses to maintain a legitimate anti-access area denial ability out at sea. simply putting 2 ships head to head at an arbitrary 120 KM (or whatever he used) distance and letting them fire their kinetic rounds is definitely not the way to do any sort of valid assessment of either side.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28932 » 19 Jan 2015 13:10

brar_w wrote:
John wrote:
The statement about barak 8 is inaccurate and contradictory they are confusing mf star ability to guide missiles with active guided barak 8. There is no limits on how many targets barak 8 system can intercept.


Hence we can assume the saturation limit for a single Burke stands at 12 BrahMos missiles.


He is assuming away without providing much for any conceptual comparison..Why 12, why not 10? Why not 15? The SM6 has OTH capability and does not require ship sensor illumination and the same goes for the B8 as you rightly point out. Not a very well crafted comparison. No debate on an AshM's employer and a ship's defender's ability to accomplish the task on hand can be completed without first discussing the basic underlying doctrine of how the Navy chooses to operate in a contested environment, and how an adversary chooses to maintain a legitimate anti-access area denial ability out at sea. simply putting 2 ships head to head at an arbitrary 120 KM (or whatever he used) distance and letting them fire their kinetic rounds is definitely not the way to do any sort of valid assessment of either side.



This is not a research paper so do not expect references and supporting of each and every claim. Even some information may not be available in public domain also. When a writer writes such a well articulated article, he has all the right to connect missing dots. When some information is missing, he may put his guessing figures to forward the arguement.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby brar_w » 19 Jan 2015 13:21

I do not have a problem with a lack of references. He clearly does not understand the basic strategy employed by naval forces to both project force, and to deny access to a particular part of the ocean or littoral. No naval war planner, either one looking to protect himself and project force in an area where the threat is a mach 3 supersonic sea-skimmer or a ballistic missile (DF21 for example) nor a warplanes looking to deploy assets such as these over an area to deny access think in terms of these narrow parameters. The Burke commander isn't thinking out loud as to how many off board assets he can have deployed at a given time to provide cues for SM6 shots at long distances (its a 200nm missile)..he is thinking much beyond that, to how can he request the COCOM to provide top cover (in the form of bombers, and space based ISR), use the PACAF and CVN assets to provide the ISR necessary to rid nasty surprises and to have SSN-774 support and availability as desired. Similarly an adversary is looking to deny the Burke of these assets as well as kick up a storm by indulging in anti-space and cyber activities to rid the Burke commander and its CVN buddies the ability to deploy their massive space enabled capability such as GPS. Neither Naval Commander is going to look at this form a "Jousting" perspective. The Burke commander would want a safety cushion around his vessel so as to deny an opponent optimal attack solution using a supersonic weapon. The defense starts not at a time an SM6 is launched, but the time when the theater deployed ISR assets (manned, unmanned, and space based) inform the captain of the threats projected around his sphere of deployment and take necesary actions to deny those threats a chance to sink your ship. If an enemy ship can get within 120 Km (or even 120 nm) of a Burke, without resistance it can pretty much sink the ship with subsonic weapons if it has enough of them. As I said, the game is lost if you let that scenario pan out.

The reason the Burke gets the off board assets is because that is how it plays at the moment and is expected to play like in the future as well. At the moment the Harpoon is pretty much on the way out. The Flight II's won't carry the Harpoon's so their entire anti ship strategy (not exactly entire but close enough) is reliant on an integrated offensive and defense. Eventually the OASW increment II would give them a VL launched weapon possibly in the 250nm+ range but even then an integrated defense and offensive against surface targets would be the norm given the assets the USN is deploying in the vast Pacific.

In Sum, its not about what aircraft could get 12-14 Brahmos or other supersonic AshM's (the chinese ones are actually more relevant for a direct comparison) towards a Burke, or what ship can get into its "sweet spot" despite of the USN's best efforts to prevent just that. Like I mentioned in the first post, its all about Context. Is this a ship sailing along in the vast pacific (as an example) by itself, which everyone seems to have forgotten about or is it a part of a group or otherwise protected by collective assets. There are plenty of VLS's for one to mix up from an offensive-defensive perspective. Area denial and overcoming denial strategies is a very interesting topic in and itself, Proceedings has some very high quality articles to that (particularly in the Chinese context), and Craig Hooper also has some solid blog entries on his blog.

http://nextnavy.com

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 19 Jan 2015 17:58

Austin wrote:What is side slam mode?


Dr. Saraswat in his IIT-B presentation said that after the Block III which features steep dive mode, block IV will have a mode that can attack from "the side". Since it is already a sea skimmer, the only side attack that makes sense other than the obvious one is the lateral side, ie the one perpendicular to the normal path of the missile. This should allow the missile to strike from the sector with weakest coverage of CIWS or a possible blind spot. Also a Brahmos hit at the bow or the rear with penetration along its length will rip the ship apart instantly as compared to a lateral hit where it punches through.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 19 Jan 2015 21:49

How many other incompetent, corrupt and super annuated persons from UPA regime has been relieved by Modi Govt? Of all the people why AC? Is it because he is anti-import? Why not VKS?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby hnair » 19 Jan 2015 21:54

Gyan, we dont know. And it shall remain so, because there will be conflicting versions. Please do not restart the topic, until something new comes along

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Vayutuvan » 19 Jan 2015 22:16

OneIndia article is well balanced.

I have a nit though. IMHO, the new papers should always refer to people by their full name or by just last name alone when there is no ambiguity. In the oneIndia article there are several references to Dr. Avinash Chander by his first name alone. A news paper article is formal and for mail address should be the norm.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby arshyam » 19 Jan 2015 22:59

<OT> Matrimc gaaru, the problem is the Indian context, where some last names are not family names, but the father's name. I have the same situation, as do many south Indians. At that point, referring as Dr. <first name> is more appropriate.</OT>

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby dinesha » 20 Jan 2015 10:16

DRDO gears up for maiden canister-based trial of Agni-V
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 803552.ece
India is all set to carry out the first canister-based trial of the 5,000 km-plus nuclear weapons capable Agni-V Intercontinental Ballistic Missile from the Wheeler Island, off the Odisha coast on January 31.

Pre-mission activities were in full swing at Wheeler Island for the crucial test when the missile would be fired in the “final induction configuration”, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) sources told The Hindu on Monday.

In view of the long range of the missile, the radars, telemetry and electro-optical tracking systems would be spread out and deployed in a way that there would be “repeatability” of data, the sources added.

High-end telemetry system

A sophisticated high-end telemetry system would be exercised for its full capacity to capture data.

After the successful trial of Agni-V for the second time in September, 2013, DRDO Director General and Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister Avinash Chander had then announced that the next launch would be canister-based.

First stage

As a prelude to the actual launch, DRDO missile technologists had in the past conducted ‘Missile Ejection Test’ from a canister in simulated conditions on two occasions when various parameters that would have to be met during the actual trial were validated.

The first stage of the three-stage solid fuelled Agni-V would be ignited at a height of 25-30 metres during the actual launch after a gas generator at the bottom of the canister provides force equivalent to 300-370 tonnes to push the missile to that height.

DRDO sources said the major advantage of canister was that it would provide operational flexibility to the user to launch the missile from anywhere as also easy and safer transportation.

The missile would be inducted after one or two more trials to test the robustness of the system.

A few tests would be enough for a large system, the sources added.

India joined an elite club of nations which possess ICBMs after the maiden launch of Agni-V ended in a roaring success on April 19, 2012.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 20 Jan 2015 21:06

The first stage of the three-stage solid fuelled Agni-V would be ignited at a height of 25-30 metres during the actual launch after a gas generator at the bottom of the canister provides force equivalent to 300-370 tonnes to push the missile to that height.



From above data calculate first order magnitude of exit velocity and acceleration.


You need to get ~A-V weight from other reports....
Will let matrimc grade the results.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Vayutuvan » 21 Jan 2015 02:29

ramana wrote:Will let matrimc grade the results.

:shock: Time to barricade myself in Nukkad.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 21 Jan 2015 05:34

http://www.aeromag.in/sites/default/fil ... 14%20L.pdf

Focus on Nirbhay. Confirmation it has a seeker.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cosmo_R » 21 Jan 2015 06:37

prashanth wrote:Reg. termination of Dr. Chander's contract, Why aren't opposition of our parliment creating ruckus? Or have we missed it?


Let's burn a few buses and be done with it. In Asterix, the jaded villagers would burn down their own village anticipating the Romans doing so.

Heck, what about the KFC bombing their own stores in Karachi? :)

All we need is more rage boyz 24x7

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JTull » 21 Jan 2015 22:36

Shiv Aroor is reporting that air-launched Brahmos will be tested in March from a Su-30MKI.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 22 Jan 2015 16:50

^It's about time.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Vipul » 24 Jan 2015 03:54

Contractual DRDO Employee Arrested for Supplying Strategic Information to Pakistan ISI Agent.

With the arrested of a youth for his alleged links with Pakistan Security Agency ISI, the tremor of espionage seems to have resurfaced in the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the country’s elite defence establishment.

In a major breakthrough, Balasore police on Friday arrested a contractual employee of Integrated Test Range (ITR) off the Odisha coast on the charges of sharing vital strategic information with suspected agents working against Government of India. A number sophisticated missiles of the country are test fired from this test range every year.

The employee Iswar Chandra Behera (35), a native of Kantipur village under Baisinga police limits in Mayurbhanj district was picked up from his home after a joint investigation by the Central Intelligence Bureau (IB), State Intelligence Wing and local police.

A Plus three pass out from Remuna College, Behera had joined ITR with a monthly salary of Rs 8,000 in August 2007 and was working as a contractual videographer in the CCTV section of control tower in ITR.

Sources said following the IB inputs, a special wing of State police led by Balasore SP Awinash Kumar tracked his movements and caught him. DIG (Eastern Range) Asheet Panigrahi said though he initially denied his links but later confessed that he was sharing information from the test range to the agent. He has been booked under various sections of anti-national act and criminal conspiracy.

Police have seized two cell phones, a computer, one hard disc, pen drives, bank passbooks, bank account statements and a UPS from his house. Stored data and information are being analysed by technical persons.

He was in connection with the suspected ISI agents for more than one year and has received Rs 35,000 in six installments in between December 2013 and December 2014. He had received money orders twice, each of Rs 5,000 from Meerut while four transactions – twice Rs 5,000 and twice Rs 7,500 were deposited in his Chandipur SBI account through net banking.

“Preliminary investigations revealed that he has received money from Abu Dhabi, Meerut, Mumbai, Bihar and Andhra Pradesh. On the pretext of repairing his camera he used to visit Kolkata where he met the agent. We have proof of their telephonic talks for at least ten times and the calls were from Pakistan. We have only verified his one bank account among many others which are being checked,” he said.

The DIG informed that Behera was sharing defence secrecy and information about the testing of missiles and vital defence installations located in Chandipur and Wheeler Island. As he was a videographer he had close access to all sensitive areas in both the test ranges.

“A case under sections 121 (A), 120 (B) of IPC and Sections 3, 4, 5 of Official Secrets Act, 1923 has been registered against him. He has been produced in the court. We have appealed the court to take him on remand for 14 days,” he said.

Intelligence sources said the Pakistan agent had introduced himself with Behera as Sribastav, a scientist of Hyderabad-based Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL). Though the agent had given him two cell phone numbers, it is learnt, they did not receive any call from this end.

“They would call back him from nine digit numbers to collect information and in lieu they transfer him money. We are verifying whether the agent has visited the place,” the source informed.

Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) is the premier intelligence service of Pakistan along with two others Intelligence Bureau (IB) and Military Intelligence (MI), operationally responsible for providing critical national security and intelligence assessment to the Government of Pakistan.

This incident assumes significance in the wake of possible terror strike threats from four Pakistan-based terror outfits in Odisha along with Maharashtra, Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh. The States were informed that the terrorist groups Jamat-Ud-Dawa, Hizbul Mujahideen, Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e- Mohammed had dispatched four terror modules to India, which may carry out the attacks.

Earlier in 1995, a couple of Sunhat area of Balasore was arrested from Chandipur for allegedly supplying information to Bangladeshi operatives. These two, who are no more now, were released after languishing in jail for over ten years.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 24 Jan 2015 09:56

Videographer arrested for leaking missile info to ISI - Satyasundar Barik, The Hindu
The Odisha police on Friday arrested a videographer, who was allegedly sharing classified information on the Integrated Test Range, Chandipur, India’s leading missile testing centre, with Pakistan’s intelligence service ISI.

Iswar Chandra Behera was working as a videographer on contract. The Intelligence Bureau had alerted the Balasore district police about the person regularly sharing information with ISI handlers, Asit Panigrahi, Deputy Inspector General of Police (Eastern), told The Hindu .

Mr. Panigrahi said they started tracking Behera. He was picked up and on interrogation, he admitted that he shared information. “The accused had been working in the missile testing centre for eight years. He used to share real-time data with ISI handlers after every missile test,” the DIG said.


How did the videographer have access to real-time data?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Pratyush » 24 Jan 2015 10:11

Or may be they are speaking of launch videos and not the telemetry, of the missiles.

But using critical thinking. The bakis are more likely to gain access on Utube. So why pay a photographer??

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 24 Jan 2015 10:13

Pratyush wrote:Or may be they are speaking of launch videos and not the telemetry, of the missiles.

But using critical thinking. The bakis are more likely to gain access on Utube. So why pay a photographer??


The videos of Indian missiles and munitions hitting the target are rarely released.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 24 Jan 2015 10:39

This is pathetic. Here people are speculating because of paucity of info. And then we have this traitor leaking info like a sieve.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 24 Jan 2015 11:05

it is the fault of the DRDO for hiring such a local freelancer without any checks and letting him have a free run of the place.

its got to be done by some of their own vetted employees.....things like this cannot be handed out to the lowest bidder or a bhatija.

from his videos the ISI would have a database of all the vital people in every missile program because they all have visited there few days before every launch...down to the most junior engineer. either these people can be targeted for harm or try to turn.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Vayutuvan » 24 Jan 2015 11:18

I heard of Photogrammetry some ten years back when I got a call from a Japanese company enquirng about using some of our algorithms for their products. Their problems were not large enough to be interesting. Looks like that area and its logical extension of videogrammetry have become quite sophisticated in the intervening years.


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Prem Kumar » 25 Jan 2015 10:40

It talks about both IIR & Radio seeker!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby koti » 25 Jan 2015 11:07

But is doesn't say by what the range increase will be!

It could be from more adventurous trajectory that is enabled by the seeker or perhaps modifications to the airframe itself. Or both. Any ideas?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 25 Jan 2015 14:40

I hope he was a freelancer and the damage he did is limited.. but at the very least the ISI may know exactly whats cooking thanks to all our tests at one place.. wonder if he was located within the test range or used to take pics from outside? Can anyone knowledgeable about the geography of the area confirm..?
If he was just some random guy sitting outside and taking videos of tests there is little we can do about these things but have multiple tests at same time, try to spread them out across different places etc.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 25 Jan 2015 14:42



I hope its IIR. On the flip side, its core FPA may have to be imported, good bijness for either France or Israel. But as a weapons system it will be highly future proof against our adversaries. RF jamming will be useless against the missile itself. I hope the Akash FC system also gets an EO/TIS/CCD.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby deejay » 25 Jan 2015 15:48

Karan M wrote:I hope he was a freelancer and the damage he did is limited.. but at the very least the ISI may know exactly whats cooking thanks to all our tests at one place.. wonder if he was located within the test range or used to take pics from outside? Can anyone knowledgeable about the geography of the area confirm..?
If he was just some random guy sitting outside and taking videos of tests there is little we can do about these things but have multiple tests at same time, try to spread them out across different places etc.


There are 3-4 locations at some distances associated with the testing. I have been to two sites. The main one cannot be distinctly filmed from outside and one will need to be inside. The other locations appeared even remote. My info again is dated and even back then these places were very 'discrete' and secured. To film, one would need to be on campus and on site. It seems this guy was not random.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 25 Jan 2015 20:03

:( I hope new GOI focuses on security measures strictly. In the next few years I bet more new stuff is going to come out of the labs into test ranges, hope at least that remains secret till we decide to be public.
On the plus side, I think ISI getting to know that our stuff works despite MSM FUD is perhaps a good thing. Contributes to deterrence.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 25 Jan 2015 21:32

Re Karan

Can you post/repost your assessment of various type of SAM "launchers" and missiles India (Army, IAF, IN) has? I was trying to assess potential orders for Indian QRSAM, Akash-1 and Akash-2 etc. Thanx in adv.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 25 Jan 2015 22:39

KaranM, I think the guy is the videographer of actual launch of the missiles. I don know what TSP will do with them.
Reminds me of Snake Ruby. It could be working for someone else via TSP.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JTull » 25 Jan 2015 22:52

Karan M wrote::( I hope new GOI focuses on security measures strictly. In the next few years I bet more new stuff is going to come out of the labs into test ranges, hope at least that remains secret till we decide to be public.
On the plus side, I think ISI getting to know that our stuff works despite MSM FUD is perhaps a good thing. Contributes to deterrence.


I'd go on a limb here and say that the guy is innocent. It is the responsibility of the hiring party to set the data security standards. If the terms of his engagement allowed him to depart the premises with photos then it is not a national security question.


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