Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 20 Jun 2018 03:50

X-posted from J&K thread.

sudeepj wrote:What with this usual rona-dhona.. Something to cheer you up, apologies for the haram twitter link.
Tral encounter scene, final moments:
https://twitter.com/SuddhanSadaf30/stat ... 3881765889

You will never guess what happens after the soldiers say, 3 seconds! 3 seconds!

Wow! What did they hit the house with? Blast looks too big to be from Carl Gustav or am I wrong?

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 20 Jun 2018 07:04

kashmir observer newspaper says "forces used a uinque bomb" !!!!

prashantsharma · Post by **prashantsharma** » 20 Jun 2018 10:15

Bravo! Loved how all the smart phones are whipped out to capture the moment...
From the explosion, it seemed to me to be from something fired from ground level, not something coming down from the air... wont be surprised if it was a field gun in direct fire mode from close range

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 20 Jun 2018 10:36

Good Hunting. My first thought was a RPO Thermobarbic round.

prashantsharma · Post by **prashantsharma** » 20 Jun 2018 11:03

Could also be an RPO. However I thought the size of the explosion seemed much larger than the ones in all the rpo videos on youtube. But i could be wrong.
Hope someone with field contacts can confirm the weapon used.
Btw does anyone knows why the SF in the 'surgical strikes carried carl gustavs and not RPOs?

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 20 Jun 2018 12:21

Hey I am confused. What is RPO ?

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 20 Jun 2018 14:14

Kersi wrote:Hey I am confused. What is RPO ?

Like the RPG, a retrospective name could be the Rocket Propelled Ordinance. But it is more of a rocket propelled flamethrower of Soviet vintage. The RPO-A, which could be what was used here is a rocket propelled thermobaric weapon. Here's to get you started.

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 22 Jun 2018 10:41

Army's Hindi baatcheet
No. 05/2018
May 2018
https://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata ... 150618.pdf

habal · Post by **habal** » 22 Jun 2018 21:28

officer is on backfoot, has nothing much to say in his defence. Sad state of affairs.

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 30 Jun 2018 17:02

https://www.imrmedia.in/events/download ... oadp_id=30
Force Protection & Soldier Technology India 2018 PROGRAMME
Manekshaw Centre, New Delhi, India
Wednesday 18th July 2018
http://www.imrmedia.in/events/uploads/e ... %20WEB.pdf

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 30 Jun 2018 17:07

https://www.imrmedia.in/events/uploads/ ... 18_Web.pdf
Air defence
India 2018
Silver Jublee International kumb mela
Kothari Auditorium DRDO Bhawan New Delhi
26-27 July 2018

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 30 Jun 2018 17:11

https://www.imrmedia.in/events/uploads/ ... Lowres.pdf
Brochure Night Vision India JAN 2018 Kumbh mela posting for records

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Jul 2018 20:06

OT for this thread bit didn't know where else to post this.

If you have the time, it may be worth a look.

Here Is the Grueling Process This Marine Went Through to Become the First Female Infantry Officer

The United States Marine Corps is one of the toughest branches of the American military. Their bootcamp is notorious for being so brutal, recruits break more bones there than in any of the other branches of the military.

Basically, if you're a Marine, you're a badass.

On Monday, a female Marine became the first woman to complete the rigorous Infantry Officer Course (IOC). Getting there wasn't easy. Here are all the hurdles she had to overcome to become a trailblazer.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 03 Jul 2018 14:22

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 830899.cms

Hats off to General Dogra.

For being the first serving officer of his rank to finish the Ironman triathlon in the world.

Three cheers to him and the army.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Jul 2018 19:51

chetak, there is the women in combat thread.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 05 Jul 2018 16:34

Indian Army to soon get armed drones from Israel
https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2018/ ... srael.html

wig · Post by **wig** » 07 Jul 2018 18:20

https://www.outlookindia.com/website/st ... nes/313158

an article on previous surgical strikes, as per this article there have been a few earlier strikes also. the first being almost half a century earlier

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 08 Jul 2018 19:24

Army no to costly hotels, lavish parties
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 17122.html

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 09 Jul 2018 16:37

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 11 Jul 2018 12:37

Army chief declares war on graft, waste and sycophancy
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 13 Jul 2018 12:48

Indian Army puts Mountain Strike Corps aimed at China in cold storage
https://theprint.in/security/indian-arm ... age/82319/

The instant order to stop ‘new raisings’ – create battalions with fresh recruits – has been prompted by financial constraints.

New Delhi: The Army has decided to shelve all new raisings for a China-specific Mountain Strike Corps due to financial constraints, an official source told The Print Thursday.

The decision effectively puts the corps, as envisaged, in cold storage.

The decision comes five years after the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approved the creation of practically a whole new army with 90,000 troops at a cost of Rs 60,000 crore.

The decision also comes a year after Indian and Chinese troops faced-off at Doklam in Bhutan near the point where the international boundaries of the three countries intersect.

But at the end of April this year, Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President Xi Jinping met at an “informal summit” in Wuhan and decided to reduce tensions on the frontier and craft new confidence building measures.

The instant order to stop “new raisings” – create battalions with fresh recruits – has, however, been prompted by financial constraints, one official said.

“The next big thing for us is a drive towards ‘optimisation’ of resources, do the best with what we have. You will hear this word (optimisation) a lot from now on. What is the point in recruiting new soldiers if we cannot give them guns and bullets?” the official said.

The CCS approved the raising of the corps in 2013 when A.K. Antony was the defence minister in Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s cabinet. It was an idea that was in the works for years.

One officer offered a perspective to The Print Thursday that raises questions on the rationale of new raisings.

He said a cabal of the officer cadre was interested in the formation of the MSC because of the lure of more offices in higher ranks of Brigadiers, Major-Generals and Lieutenant-Generals that would be created. Such an argument pre-supposes that operational logic may have been subsumed by careerist considerations.

The Mountain Strike Corps or 17 Corps is headquartered in Ranchi with divisions headquartered in Panagarh, West Bengal, (59 mountain) and Pathankot (72 mountain), Punjab. Aviation, artillery, armoured brigades were to be integrated into the corps that was planned with entirely new raisings of nearly 30 mountain infantry battalions. In addition, it was also to be reinforced with teams of high-altitude special forces.

Focus on ‘Optimisation’
The order to stop new raisings by Army headquarters coincides with a study that is being conducted by the Shimla-headquartered Army Training Command (ARTRAC) headed by Lt. Gen. M.M. Naravane.

Naravane has been asked to submit a report by the end of this year with suggestions for “optimisation” – utilisation of troops and equipment without raising costs.

The study will examine whether it is necessary to carry on annual recruitments at all centres to fill all the spaces created by total annual retirements. About 35-40,000 soldiers retire from the 1.3 million strong Army each year. The total number of recruits vary from region to region as it depends on the number of vacancies in each regiment and arm.

The raising of the Mountain Strike Corps meant that the Army was adding to its manpower when many (mostly Western) countries are reducing theirs. Units for the mountain strike corps have already been raised in the Northeast. Since the past year, a lazy focus was on staffing the planned Pathankot division but the sense of the funds crunch was already seeping in.

The 17 Corps was also being armed with BAE Land System’s M777 ultra-light howitzers imported from the US. The howitzers can be underslung from heavy helicopters (Chinooks from the US are contracted) for transporting in the mountains.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 14 Jul 2018 02:01

Naib Subedar Rajpal Dhayal is the hero of encounter today in Shopian, #Kashmir. Not only did he courageously lead Ops against terrorists but also eliminated two hardcore Jaish terrorists. He sustained bullet injuries on his right hand and abdomen. A bullet also hit his helmet.

https://twitter.com/adityarajkaul/statu ... 04929?s=21

What helmet would that be?
Kevlar fiber damage?

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 14 Jul 2018 21:35

Looks like kevlar fiber.. Only the bulletproof patka is 'proof' against 7.62x39. Kevlar helmets are lightweight but only stop 9mm and arty fragments.

kit · Post by **kit** » 15 Jul 2018 03:47

nachiket wrote:X-posted from J&K thread.
sudeepj wrote:What with this usual rona-dhona.. Something to cheer you up, apologies for the haram twitter link.
Tral encounter scene, final moments:
https://twitter.com/SuddhanSadaf30/stat ... 3881765889

You will never guess what happens after the soldiers say, 3 seconds! 3 seconds!
Wow! What did they hit the house with? Blast looks too big to be from Carl Gustav or am I wrong?

cool .. no more itsy bitsy shooting matches .. a thermobaric little bum under the terrorist's knickers is the best way out ..cheap and effective

kit · Post by **kit** » 15 Jul 2018 03:49

Rakesh wrote:We need a thumbs up smilie!

https://twitter.com/MajDPSingh/status/1 ... 4704513024 ---> Latest pack of Virgin chasers were sent to seek their company. Unfortunately if they dont find virgins...they cant come back to real jannat.

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 8312619009 ---> Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Rot in hell animals.

the second one in the pic seems to have lost his head .. literally!

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 15 Jul 2018 16:20

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 8235013122

Nitin A. Gokhale Verified account @nitingokhale

Coming in late on this because of travel but the debate on Mountain Strike Corps is based on a flawed premise. It has not been abandoned, only slowed down. That's the first point. Secondly, new raisings have been staggered because infrastructure has to be in place as a first step

>> For instance, infrastructure under 14 Corps is being beefed up gradually. Funds crunch apart, terrain and weather precludes rapid progress. If brigades have to be deployed in the harsh terrain, they need proper support, roads for guaranteed supplies, logistics bases and airfields.

>> In Arunachal and Sikkim, feeder and strategic roads, ALGs are being put in place over the past decade but any additional forces to be stationed in the region will require a far more all-weather infrastructure support which has only minimum disruption. Force deployment thereafter.

>> Finally, it is instructive to remember that the MSC was sanctioned in 2013 without any allocation of specific fund for its raising, just to ward off the criticism following the Depsang episode. It was a diversionary tactic.

wig · Post by **wig** » 17 Jul 2018 09:39

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 21467.html

the Army is proposing restructuring of its ranks

wig · Post by **wig** » 17 Jul 2018 09:45

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 016582.cms

this article also refers to restructuring of army ranks. it mentions that officers will be commissioned as captains. also colonels will be promoted as maj gen. thereby doing away with Brigadier rank.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jul 2018 10:23

I dont see what is gained as they have junior and senior major generals.

Brigadier is a time honored rank.

Aping civil services is not wise always.

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 18 Jul 2018 23:36

ramana wrote:I dont see what is gained as they have junior and senior major generals.
Aping civil services is not wise always.

It is one way to reduce disparity in warrant of precedence with the civil services.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Jul 2018 23:54

more ranks actually reduce congestion, which is why number of ranks in civil services have nosed up since 50's. During BN Mullick's era, the next seniormost rank after the chief i.e director was the deputy director. today deputy director is at most a middling rank.

see f.e MK Dhar : http://www.sify.com/news/the-intelligen ... dfcsi.html

rather than reducing ranks army should look at time bound promotions.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Jul 2018 00:39

Anoop wrote:
ramana wrote:I dont see what is gained as they have junior and senior major generals.
Aping civil services is not wise always.
It is one way to reduce disparity in warrant of precedence with the civil services.

This warrant of precedence is red herring and more a colonial hangover.
How many occasions do the military interact with civilians where the WOP takes primacy?

Only R -Day parades.

Stick to war fighting and be great at it.
Time is coming near.

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 19 Jul 2018 08:17

ramana wrote:This warrant of precedence is red herring and more a colonial hangover.
How many occasions do the military interact with civilians where the WOP takes primacy?.

It is actually a critical issue in civil military relations. It impacts things from pay and pension parity, composition and reporting authority in joint committees, financial sanctioning authority for acquisitions and practical matters like handling civil cases of uniformed personnel.

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 19 Jul 2018 08:26

https://www.dailyo.in/politics/ministry ... 25500.html

Cross-posting. Contains a great example of misplaced civil authorities' "primacy" in military operational matters.

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 19 Jul 2018 18:09

Rahul M wrote:rather than reducing ranks army should look at time bound promotions.

I agree, it will improve the operational effectiveness at unit and sub unit levels to have younger Lt. Cols and Cols. But being the sharp pyramid it is, the bottleneck will still remain at the Brigadier level. If one doesn't get selected for the Staff College course in 3 (?) attempts as a Colonel, he has to retire, right? And the vacancies are very limited. The right answer would be to have lateral entry to the civil services and paramilitary forces without loss of seniority, but that is stymied by bureaucratic turf wars. I think private enterprises should tap into this stream aggressively by recruiting SSC officers. There is such a wealth of talent and experise, whether it be in logistics, engineering, telecommunication, organizational skill etc. Companies are lamenting that 80% of engineering graduates are unfit for employment....soon this would translate to unfit middle level management. Here is the answer.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Jul 2018 20:28

Staff College is at major level right?
And MHOW is at Lt. Col. level?

Also I think the 1980s reforms that led to senior officers leading battalions also contributed to this stagnation.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Jul 2018 01:19

Anoop, rather than reducing ranks the solution might be to add a Brig. Gen b/w Brig. & Maj.Gen. promote people to Brig. & some would become Brig. Gen. who would command brigades.

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 20 Jul 2018 08:07

ramana wrote:Staff College is at major level right?
And MHOW is at Lt. Col. level?

Sorry, I made a mistake. You are right. What I meant are courses like Higher Command Course and Higher Defence Management Courses in College of Defence. I stand corrected about the promotion process above Colonel rank; it is basesd on ACR, vacancies etc. But having done these courses also helps.

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 20 Jul 2018 08:18

Rahul M wrote:Anoop, rather than reducing ranks the solution might be to add a Brig. Gen b/w Brig. & Maj.Gen. promote people to Brig. & some would become Brig. Gen. who would command brigades.

Rahul, then what would Brigadiers do? I mean, those who are not in staff appointments or other appointments like instruction etc.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Jul 2018 08:39

What proportion of brigadiers actually command brigades? They would do what they already do in staff and instructor duties, but that promotion can be made time bound. The jump from brigadier to brigadier general would then be on selection.
Parity with civil service is an ephemeral target, given that the forces are by definition pyramidal. The correct solution is actually to rationalize the civil service than to emulate the worse designs of the civil service. Absorption to civil service is of course a good option if it can be done.