Indian Income Tax System

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negi
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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby negi » 26 Jun 2017 11:34

UB sir you make fair points but you are pushing a wall nothing is going to come out of this exercise ; when I run into such nonsense what I do is hire a tax guy he/she may charge 500 or INR 1000 depending on the mess and finish the damn thing in few days . You can then devote all these hours into doing something rather more constructive.

Indian tax system is so broken I am yet to get my returns from 2015 as they asked me to fill a physical form to prove I own the Aadhar linked to the account ; all this just because I own a joint account with my father.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby Sachin » 26 Jun 2017 21:09

negi wrote:Indian tax system is so broken I am yet to get my returns from 2015 as they asked me to fill a physical form to prove I own the Aadhar linked to the account ; all this just because I own a joint account with my father.

Surprisingly, I got my IT refund (for year FY1516) very quickly. Filed my returns by July 2016, and by around Sep 2016 the refund was in my account.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jun 2017 01:57

Interestingly, that's what got me in trouble in 2015/16. Before I could return to desh and beat up the Indian Bank bozos and get the interest and TDS figured right, the IT under NaMo-induced fire under musharraf, had already given me the refund. Like by October. Once they do that, there is no way to correct the return!

But now it is a straight case of fraud by IITM that is causing the takleef, best I can tell. No other explanation.

Negiji et al: I have tried going through the "best": they just make a bigger mess. Better to sit down, learn the process and go through the System. Maybe someone in PMO can read.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby prasannasimha » 27 Jun 2017 09:25

UlanBatori wrote:
I am not sure why you are all running into so much trouble.

Simple:
Because(a) I try to pay taxes honestly and (b) in desh, there is no correlation between what is "supposed to happen" and what actually happens.

I am quite aware of Form 26 etc, though I cannot understand why on a web-based portal, you have to go sign in and REQUEST the 26 statement, and then come back after 24 hours to actually download it! Seems like even the computers have been programmed with the Babooncracy's habitual feature of telling the taxpayer:

Come back tomorrow onlee!


I mean, how long does it take a COMPUTER to update a document? Where is the need for human interaction in that?

This year the banks seem to have not screwed up (haven't checked in detail). But IIT Madras has, as far as I can tell, embezzled the money that was taken out as TDS from GIAN paycheques. It has never been deposited into the govt IT system. Certainly not at payment time as is done with paycheques, not at any Quarter's end, not by April 20 (specified latest deadline per IT website), not by May end, and not by June 24.

Story kept changing through the year, but now there is only silence, and clock is ticking to July 31 tax filing deadline. VERY clear that the money has disappeared: about $200K total from all the courses that have been taught in the past year+. Director's office on down, they are all aware of it. Silence.

Pls read above, thx. Pls let me know who is the proper authority to complain to when Govt. Officials don't do their jobs. Must be someone intelligent life below PM's office?

I do not understand d why you are waiting 24 hours to access your form 26AS. I get it immediately everytime . We all are paying (and expected to pay )taxes honestly so thats not an answer .
You can complain wrt non filing of TDS to the IT department

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jun 2017 20:52

Strange. I have to go through a different system for enn-arr-eyes. You request the 26AS, then come back 24 hrs (or some part thereof but after some tests I wait 24 hrs). I am quite sure that it does not appear immediately.

Will see who to complain to at IT dept (out of alternatives.) Pls send me a link if you can find any, I am out of ideas there.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby prasannasimha » 27 Jun 2017 21:46


prasannasimha
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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby prasannasimha » 27 Jun 2017 21:48

So it appears you can show your payslip showing the TDS deducted to you to the assessing officer and claim the TDS and he can proceed against the deductor.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby prasannasimha » 27 Jun 2017 21:52

So it appears you can show your payslip showing the TDS deducted to you to the assessing officer and claim the TDS and he can proceed against the deductor.
[url]
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 008_1.html[/url]

The relevant rules are there to help.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Jun 2017 07:54

There is no payslip and no TDS to show. IIT just did a transfer straight to Bank account of some amount which is presumed to be promised amount minus TDS. Also there is no showing anyone when filling out electronic forms from Outer Mongolia. But thanks a million for that news article. Scary - it basically says that the IT dept has no interest in going after defaulting deductors which is why these bozos think they can get away with it.

Probably my best bet is file a complaint and have it delivered by registered mail to the IT dept, so I can at least show the proof of that. Hopefully IIT will wake up in the next couple of days.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby prasannasimha » 28 Jun 2017 09:47

You can demand a form 16 from IIT. They are bound to issue it if they have done YES. If they have not gone it under DTTI (double taxation avoidance treaty ) then TDS will not have been done. If you stayed less than 180 days in a financial year in India this may be the case. Then your taxation base will be your country of residence

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby prasannasimha » 28 Jun 2017 09:53

You can demand a form 16 from IIT. They are bound to issue it if they have done TDS. If they have not gone it under DTTI (double taxation avoidance treaty ) then TDS will not have been done. If you stayed less than 180 days in a financial year in India this may be the case. Then your taxation base will be your country of residence

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby UlanBatori » 29 Jun 2017 07:30

Well... they took out the money all right, Deducted At Source. But it has not been deposited - at least not in the acct. where it is supposed to be deposited. And they are basically stonewalling when requested to issue the Form 16, since about last October.

I doubt if I am so special: there are some 100 to 150 like me over the last year at same IIT. So multiply the amount by 150 and u c y it is no longer a chump change issue, too low beneath the upturned noses of the Director and the Chairman of the CCE etc. It's not quite up to the standards of Indian Mantris such as the PC family, but for admins in an academic institution it's quite up there.

I think there is a name for this, but it escapes me at the moment, fortunately. As Trump or Michael Jackson (pbuh) might have said: "Sad. So Sad!"

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby prasannasimha » 29 Jun 2017 09:28

This is wrong and if it has been done a legal notice can be sent. They cannot just siphon of the money and if TDS has been done complain to the assessing officer

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby prasannasimha » 29 Jun 2017 09:30

Just as an aside Form 16 is issued typically in May or June. Not October so may be worth asking for it again now.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby UlanBatori » 30 Jun 2017 06:06

Still asking. Yes, they claimed they do it all in May, but May is long over. Point is, the deduction should appear on the A26 (banks post it every quarter) and it has not. If they have actually posted it, all they had to do is to send me the details (when posted, how much, what PAN) to verify. So they are way late at minimum, and stonewalling. July 31 is a month away.

I emailed contactus@tdscpc.gov.in

Let's see if any intelligence intervenes.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Jul 2017 23:50

Update.
TDSCPC kindly replied (very promptly) and gave me the link to the addresses of the local Assessing Officers. With my other resources I was able to find the address to complain. OK, holding that in reserve.

So I had given a June 30 deadline for them to move their asses. Apparently the Assistant Registrar, one Sudarshan, went and actually filed the TDS (dated June 30 when he signed his Declaration.) Of course his statement was false, he said I had not given my PAN, so he filed it under "PANNOTAVAILABLE" Which means I cannot claim the refund since the amount will not appear under my PAN account in Form 26AS. Note that I had given my PAN in the original form that I filled out for IITM's administration back in AUGUST 2016, then again, and again, and again, and cited the PAN in most of the email reminders. If this isn't deliberate lying, I don't know what it is. Of course he didn't send me the receipt. That took one more email, circa July 6, this time to the Director's academic email address on his faculty web-page, cc to his Office, asking him to please figure out what was wrong with what his dump was doing, since July31 tax filing deadline was fast approaching.

Other problems: The form says it was Updated June 25. How can that be, when the guy's signature is dated June 30? Also, they just lie and claim that the amount is for the 4th Quarter, and that they deposited it on Feb. 28, which is totally false. The amount is for 2nd Quarter (ending Sep. 30), and they most certainly did not deposit anything until very recently. That's the other beauty about the TDS filings: the System is stacked in favor of the crooks, they can falsify dates as they want.

Anyway, next morning after I emailed the Director's faculty address, I got the receipt emailed from the Registrar's (whatever CCE is) office. With the false statement that they didn't have my PAN, so my TDS won't show up. Now I have emailed them all again asking them to correct that without my having to file complaints of non-compliance with the Chennai Assessor's office. Let's see, the month is still young, they have to get their thumbs out of their musharrafs and learn to check email etc.

Meanwhile, an update on the latest ITR forms. WOW!!!! Download the Java app to Mac OS, got the right JAVA-based ITR zip file downloaded, clicked "PRE-FILL" on the form and .. THAT's IT!!!! My tax filing then consists just of filling out the income numbers. The TDS (of course without the IIT bozos' amount) downloads automatically, everything else about me downloads automatically. Whole form auto-fills. Kudos to the Govrmand, they are really trying. It's just these pissants in the banks and other babooncracies that are obstructing India. Time to kick their butts across the LOC.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Oct 2017 19:06

So... continuing my saga of :(( and :twisted:

After 21 (TWENTY ONE) reminders over 1 year and a direct signed letter to the director, I finally got the hippos in the Eye Eye Tee to move their oiseules enough to send the TDS properly to the Ey-Tee Department. So all happy except a long memory on my side too.

Now comes a small problem. Filed EyeTee Saral etc, got acknowledgement. Must sign and mail By Ordinary Post onlee the ack back to the EyeTee. Problem: 4 attempts so far, all seem lost in the mail or eaten.

Is there some other way to communicate this signed acknowledgement to Indian Eye Tee, say electronically, at this stage (i.e., chose "I will send signed acknowlegement onlee" when I filled out the form)?

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby Vips » 31 Jan 2018 20:47

Is India on the cusp of a fiscal revolution?

Income tax collection as a per cent of GDP tend to rise sharply once average incomes cross the $2,000 threshold—from 1% of GDP to around 5% of GDP. India is on the cusp of that threshold.

Arun Jaitley will present the fifth budget of the Narendra Modi government this week. The budget will be announced against the backdrop of a strong economic revival combined with greater macro risks. This column had noted a fortnight ago that the Indian economy in 2018 would look very different from the one in 2017 because of these two factors, and would thus test the new macroeconomic policy framework.

Various monthly indicators suggest that economic recovery will gather pace over the next few quarters, and investment bank Nomura says in a recent report that a V-shaped recovery will be driven by a strong pickup in investment activity as well as export growth. The flip side is that the current account deficit is expected to widen, interest rates in the bond market have begun to move up and the significant steepening of the yield curve suggests growing worries on the inflation front.

This combination of stronger growth with greater macro risks suggests that the finance minister should avoid fiscal adventurism. The economic recovery has enough internal strength to move ahead without fiscal support while it makes sense to preserve fiscal firepower in case there is a global shock over the rest of the year. It will be a tough political decision in the months leading to the next general election.

There is a broader issue that needs to be introduced into the Indian fiscal debate at this point in time. Is India ready for a fiscal revolution? Thomas Piketty has shown in his empirical work that most Western countries underwent fiscal modernization between 1914 and 1950. For example, income tax moved from being an elite tax levied on a thin slice of the population to a mass tax that a growing proportion of citizens paid.

The Indian nation state sits on a weak fiscal foundation. There are two consequences of this. First, low tax revenue means that essential tasks such as national security, the provision of public goods and offering social security cannot be done without running what would be among the highest fiscal deficits in the world.

Second, the low proportion of direct taxpayers leads to weak political incentives for good governance. Almost all Indians pay regressive indirect taxes but it could be argued that people are more alert about how their money is being spent when it is a question of progressive direct taxes. The Indian fiscal contract is very different from the one in developed countries.

The most reasonable criticism of the view that Indians pay far too little tax as a proportion of gross domestic product (GDP) is that we are a poor country. Tadit Kundu and Pramit Bhattacharya have shown in a data story published recently in this newspaper that India is not an outlier in terms of the tax-GDP ratio once the numbers are adjusted for per capita income. Indians pay enough tax given their average incomes.

Is that about to change? Here are two optimistic guesses about why the fiscal foundations of the Indian state could be strengthened in the next decade.

Global economic history suggests that income tax collections as a per cent of GDP tend to rise sharply once average incomes cross the $2,000 threshold—from 1% of GDP to around 5% of GDP. These four extra percentage points can make a world of difference. India is on the cusp of that threshold. What has happened in China is instructive. Its income tax revenue as a per cent of GDP began to climb in the early years of this century.

Many alert readers will notice that China had a lower level of per capita income at the turn of the century than India has today. Then why was there an inflexion point in its income tax collections? Piketty has argued that one reason why India has had less success in making the income tax a mass tax could be because “the proportion of formal wage earners in the labour force is ridiculously low”.

This is a very useful backdrop to examine the ongoing debate about whether India is creating adequate jobs in formal enterprises—as well as welcome the data in the Economic Survey released earlier this week on the formalization of the Indian economy. The very possibility that India is creating more formal sector jobs than most people assume, plus the fact that average incomes are close to $2,000, provides the initial conditions for a fiscal revolution.

Higher collections of direct taxes—on income, corporate profits, capital gains and property—could create fiscal space for the government to reduce rates on regressive indirect taxes such as the goods and services tax (GST). One of the central aims of the 1991 tax reforms was to move away from a heavy dependence on regressive indirect taxes. That job is still half done.

The even more powerful possibility— and it is only a possibility right now—is that higher direct tax collections could provide the next few Indian governments with the financial resources to maintain national security, provide public goods, build infrastructure and fund a meaningful social security system without being forced to run up huge fiscal deficits.

Is such a fiscal revolution just around the corner? It is impossible to say for sure—but some of the answers are blowing in the wind.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby Manish_P » 14 Feb 2019 16:28

I-T officer gets 7-year rigorous imprisonment; mother, 90, jailed in DA case

A special Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) court on Wednesday sentenced a serving Income Tax (I-T) commissioner to seven years of rigorous imprisonment in a 14-year-old case pertaining to disproportionate assets.

The court of CBI special judge Sujata Singh also imposed a fine of Rs 3.50 crore on senior Indian Revenue Service (IRS) office Swetabh Suman
Moreover, the court also sentenced Suman’s 90-year-old mother Gulab Devi, to a one-year jail term

Incidentally, in a separate case, Swetabh Suman had been arrested by CBI sleuths while taking a bribe of Rs 40 lakh in Assam in April 2018
Suman was then posted at Guwahati as commissioner of income tax (audit). He was in jail for over 60 days after which he was granted bail.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Jul 2019 06:00

Pooch to the Experts. ITR-2.
Now IT dept declares that taxpayer can download PreFilled XML with all personal data, Tee Dee Ess etc. Yes, I was able to do that. Now comes the small problem: I open a blank ITR2, and eventually find the button on the right of the PartA Excel sheet that says Import Pre-Filled XML Onlee.

Microsoft VISUAL BASIC: Compile error in hidden module: 'ImportXML'. This error commonly occurs when code is incompatible with the version, platform, or architecture of this application.


Any way out of this?
The system that I use did manage to generate XML when I filled in all info by hand... Would be nice to use data that they provide, just to feel good.
Seriously they use VISUAL BASIC? Not that I care if they can make it work, but...

Bart S
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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby Bart S » 18 Jul 2019 06:30

UlanBatori wrote:Pooch to the Experts. ITR-2.
Now IT dept declares that taxpayer can download PreFilled XML with all personal data, Tee Dee Ess etc. Yes, I was able to do that. Now comes the small problem: I open a blank ITR2, and eventually find the button on the right of the PartA Excel sheet that says Import Pre-Filled XML Onlee.

Microsoft VISUAL BASIC: Compile error in hidden module: 'ImportXML'. This error commonly occurs when code is incompatible with the version, platform, or architecture of this application.


Any way out of this?
The system that I use did manage to generate XML when I filled in all info by hand... Would be nice to use data that they provide, just to feel good.
Seriously they use VISUAL BASIC? Not that I care if they can make it work, but...


Most people don't bother with that. H&R Block India will file your taxes for free if you are OK with inputting some of the fields manually, or for Rs 300 will have someone fill everything in and file it for you.

UlanBatori
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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Jul 2019 08:13

No free forms for Mongolians and EchNArrBlock , unfortunately. Starts at Rs 3000. I checked, just to put a value on my time and hassle. Also checked for any other free/cheap software like I use in Mongolia. No luck.

General observation in this thread:
The answer to most "WTH is this?" questions about bizarre practices of the Guvrmand Aphsars, seems to be:
"V pay someone to take care of that."
Isn't that the Pakistani system, hain?
Reminds me of the Cochin Customs of many years ago. They had bizarre forms, and **THEY*** made "errors" in filling their parts, just to harass the citjen. If you asked why, they said:
Whyfor you are doing this yourself onlee? Why not hire an AGINT (who can then negotiate the baksheesh)?


I have a long, innate hatred of that. As I explained to that oiseule, I can read and write and fill out forms. It is up to the 3-star-king govrmand aphsars to make sure the forms are sensible and correct. And fire the asses of "aphsars" who make incompetent errors on forms to harass citjens.

Managed to clear my delayed airport bags after 2 days of hassle. But did not pay a paisa of "duty". And when I left at the end of 2 days after causing considerable ulcers to the aphsars, the ppl who came before me and hired Agints were still patiently waiting there.

The main oiseule called me into his office after checking through my bags futilely and asked:
Why you are not bringing any dutiable items onlee?


"Because I don't believe in paying my hard-earned money to you guys" (Oiseule!!!).

Shocking that on BRF todin, people consider such pathetic quality from the Govt to be "v r like that onlee" in 2019. This is what comes of eating GM-fed chicken instead of native chaval.

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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Jul 2019 08:20

No comment.
17/07/2019 New Content
CBDT issues clarification on incorrect reports in social media pertaining to difficulty in filing of Income Tax Returns. [Refer Press Release]

Government of India
Ministry of Finance
Department of Revenue
Central Board of Direct Taxes
New Delhi, 16th July, 2019
PRESS RELEASE
CBDT issues clarification on incorrect reports in social media pertaining to difficulty in filing of Income Tax Returns Central Board of Direct Taxes (CBDT) has said today that no changes have been made in any of the Income-tax Return (ITR) forms including ITR-2 and ITR-3 since the notification made on 1st April 2019, i.e. on the 1st day of the Assessment Year 2019-20. There were reports in social media that the taxpayers were facing difficulties in filing return of income in ITR-2 & ITR-3 due to large scale changes in the ITR form on 11th July, 2019. It is stated that the software utility for e-filing of all the ITR forms has been released long back. The utility for e-filing ITR-2 and ITR-3 was released on 2nd May and on 10th May 2019 respectively. However, the software utility update is a dynamic process and is continuously taken up as per the feedback received
from the users/filers to ease their experience in electronic filing of returns.

It is further clarified that the updating of utility does not hamper filing of return as the taxpayers are allowed to file using the utility which is available at that point of time. For example, more than 85 lakh taxpayers have filed returns in ITR-1 till date by using the said utility, which has also undergone update later. Therefore, the impression that the taxpayers are not able to file return due to changes in ITR form is also not correct as more than 1.38 crore taxpayers have already filed their returns by using the utility released till date. Even though the utility is being updated regularly to provide ease to taxpayers, the returns filed by using the previous version of utility will continue to be valid.

It is pertinent to state that the updation in utility of ITR forms is based on feedback and mainly aimed at easing the compliance burden of the taxpayers by facilitating easier e-filing. For instance, this year, the facility of pre-filling of return forms has been provided based on the information furnished in the TDS statements. This facility has been updated in the utility subsequently. This would substantially reduce the efforts of taxpayers in filling of return forms.

It is reiterated that there are no changes in the notified ITR forms; only the utility has been updated to facilitate the taxpayers. Therefore, the assertion that numerous changes have been made in ITR-2 and ITR-3 on July 11, 2019, does not give a correct picture.
(Surabhi Ahluwalia)
Commissioner of Income Tax
(Media & Technical Policy)
Official Spokesperson, CBDT.


pssst: Maybe the old software didn't work and neither does the new one, hainji?

UlanBatori
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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Jul 2019 15:10

It gets better. I downloaded the latest ITR-2, tried importing the pre-filled XML. No luck.
Then I filled in by hand, validated, generated the XML, and tried uploading to the tax site.

Invalid XML. Please to use latest version of ITR onlee

So the ITR-2 that they have on the site is **NOT** the one that they think is the latest?

Indian "IT" at its best in every respect?

Manish_P
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Re: Indian Income Tax System

Postby Manish_P » 15 Aug 2019 09:55

I-T officers can’t issue unaccounted notices

From October 1, all orders, notices and summons will have to be generated via the Income Tax Business Application Platform with a unique document identification number, a circular issued by the Central Board of Direct Taxes after the PM’s stern message that honest taxpayers should not be harassed.

“Any notice or order that does not carry a computer-generated DIN will not be valid” said an official.

Even orders and notices issued before the deadline will need to be validated and a DIN will have to be obtained by October 31.



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