Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
TKiran
BRFite
Posts: 923
Joined: 13 Dec 2009 00:22

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby TKiran » 18 May 2019 22:55

Actually the excavations were not started in ASI till BJP came to power after independence. Vajpayee's govt. wanted sites similar to Harappa Mohenjadaro in India.

Till then only explorations (explorations are different from excavations) were done and there was ample evidence of great sites in Gujarat, Rajasthan, Haryana, and also gangetic planes. Those sites were not excavated fearing that the Aryan invasion theory may get debunked.

Dhola Veera, bhirrana, Rakhigadhi etc were excavated because of pressure from Vajpayee govt.

Though there are many explorations done in south India after State departments of archaeology were formed, there was absolutely no interest in BJP to excavate the sites in south India. There are Rock arts in chintalkunta in cuddappah district in Andhra Pradesh, that are 30,000-40,000 years old. The flora and fauna depicted and celestial events recorded are found much better than in a similar cave and Rock arts in south Africa. But those caves were demolished by some Reddy who took the permission of the forest department for mining, and used gelatin sticks to demolish the whole hill. History lost. This is only one story.

There is evidence of continuous civilization of south India for atleast 30,000 years.

ASI doesn't want south Indian history to come out, already south India has great temples and gives much more sophisticated history of south India than the North.

Just see and Google "Keeladi" you will understand the politics.

ShyamSP
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2262
Joined: 06 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby ShyamSP » 19 May 2019 03:04

TKiran wrote:...
Similarly, Gottiprolu I linked above has a potential to unearth the south Indian maritime history, and the North Indians are already trying to close the site. They have awarded the site where excavation is going on to Social Welfare board, and they want to build a modern ladies hostel at exactly the same place where the excavation is going on.
.


Huh? Disappointing if they gave away to destroy the site. I visited nearby village last year. When I saw your news link in previous page and got enthused to visit this site next time I go to that area.

Lilo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4059
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 09:08

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Lilo » 19 May 2019 12:36

TKiran ji, into lemurian politics of North vs South nowadin ?
TKiran wrote:... BJP being a North Indians party, doesn't want south Indian history to be explored.
TKiran wrote:....
ASI doesn't want south Indian history to come out, already south India has great temples and gives much more sophisticated history of south India than the North.

Just see and Google "Keeladi" you will understand the politics.

Image

sarathy
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 26
Joined: 13 Mar 2019 22:33

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby sarathy » 19 May 2019 16:09

Lilo wrote:TKiran ji, into lemurian politics of North vs South nowadin ?
TKiran wrote:... BJP being a North Indians party, doesn't want south Indian history to be explored.
TKiran wrote:....
ASI doesn't want south Indian history to come out, already south India has great temples and gives much more sophisticated history of south India than the North.

Just see and Google "Keeladi" you will understand the politics.



Unfortunately, it does exist on the ground. Heck, I see that happening in UK. :(( :evil:

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3368
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby suryag » 19 May 2019 18:13

Tkiran next time you bring this N-S divide you get an instant ban

wig
BRFite
Posts: 1619
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby wig » 20 May 2019 13:08

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... NSXQI1Tsoc

In Haryana’s Kunal village, a glimpse of life before Harappa
Kunal village in Haryana’s Fatehabad is one of the oldest pre-Harappan settlements. The seventh round of excavations, which started in January and ended two weeks ago, will bring to the forefront more about the lives of people — mostly artisans associated with Hakraware culture.

excerpted
Located at a distance of 12km from Ratia tehsil, Kunal is one of the oldest pre-Harappan settlements and dates back roughly to the 5th millennium BC. The roughly 6,000-year-old site holds within it a rich legacy and its ties to the past can possibly help trace the history of Haryana, and the country

and

Hakraware refers to the cultural material that has been traced to the pre-Harappan phase. The word is a combination of two words: Hakra and ware. While ware means pottery, the word Hakra traces its origins to the palaeochannel of Ghaggar-Hakra that flows through India and Pakistan. The river channel is known as Ghaggar in India and Hakra further downstream in Pakistan.

Hakraware was first traced to Cholistan in Pakistan along the banks of the river Hakra, and Harappan sites in India have also yielded cultural material resembling that of the Cholistan region. The excavations at Kunal were aimed at digging deep into Hakra culture. “When Harappan sites were first excavated in Cholistan, a typical distinctive pottery was found along the banks of the Hakra river.


Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3377
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Rudradev » 29 May 2019 21:53

For anyone who wants an excellent basic primer on genetics-based argumentation around OOI vs AIT, this is a MUST-WATCH video.



Dr. Vedam is not a geneticist but has a deep background in statistical analysis. He clearly describes how statistic methodologies and questionable assumption are used by the pro-AIT crowd to fudge genetic data in order to arrive at pre-ordained conclusions.

There are a few small errors in his exposition of genetics:
1) He says repeatedly "99.9% of us carry identical DNA". This isn't quite right. In fact, 100% of us share complete DNA sequence identity at 99.9% of the 3 X 10^9 base pairs in the human genome ((barring variations in short-tandem repeats, but that's a minor issue). So 99.9% of DNA sequence is common to all Homo sapiens. All variation that exists, is contained within the remaining 3 X 10^6 base pairs in the genome (i.e. 0.01% of our chromosomal DNA).

2) He uses the term "genetic drift" to mean the net effect of variations in lineages induced by mutations over time. This isn't the correct meaning of the term "genetic drift", which has to do with changes of allele frequencies in a population resulting from random sampling in mating. Image

But otherwise his analysis is bang-on. Again, highly recommended for anyone who does not come from a background in biology or genetics.

siqir
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 54
Joined: 20 Mar 2019 08:32

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby siqir » 30 May 2019 17:51

Nice talk from J.P. Mallory on the various challenges archaeologists face when re-interpreting data in light of game-changer aDNA studies "If you see a diagram dating language splits, distrusylt them' #CHPG


https://mobile.twitter.com/JRodrigo_F/s ... 2600222727

lol it is going to be fun watching them slowly deal with the implications

will they stretch out the acceptance phase over decades or will it be centuries like for geocentrism

siqir
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 54
Joined: 20 Mar 2019 08:32

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby siqir » 04 Jun 2019 18:15

new dna paper on origins of bactrian camel

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/656231v1

from page 12

Bactrian camels were first domesticated in the area of Iran around 10 thousand years ago


and then spread over caspian sea kazakhstan and to mongolia

this has some impact on dating of rig veda as per talageri

http://talageri.blogspot.com/2016/07/th ... an_27.html

the “Bactrian camel was domesticated in Central Asia in the late 3rd mill. BCE” (Witzel)
...
The five Old Books of the Rigveda (6,3,7,4,2) clearly belong to a period earlier to the invention of spokes and the domestication of the Bactrian camel


putting the old claims and new data together could imply rig veda older than 10ky

but the paper did not use ancient dna only modern ones and it is not clear how they see domestication so that 10ky date may change
and we would also need data from india to pinpoint when we got them

siqir
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 54
Joined: 20 Mar 2019 08:32

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby siqir » 13 Jun 2019 14:53

Fabricating Evidence in Support of the Aryan Invasion / Migration Theory

https://www.academia.edu/39516972/Fabri ... ion_Theory

in this hard hitting piece michel danino clearly calls out harvards anti hindutva political agenda in promoting ait and also the shameful treatment by so called scientists and historians of anyone who opposed their views

given the importance of the issue i think we are bound to see lot more fabricated evidence in coming years and decades in archaeology and maybe even genetics which may not be distinguishable from the real thing

which will lead to long stalemate type situation in this debate

Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2178
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Prem Kumar » 14 Jun 2019 09:18

Stalemate can be avoided if Indian kids & adults are taught OIT in schools, with all its attendant evidence from Day 1. It should be part of the larger "Indian civilization narrative".

So, when kids grow up and hear about this theory called AIT, full of holes, they will laugh at it and laugh at the shoddiness that is "Western Academia".

AIT-OIT debates should be restricted to a handful of conferences, within academic circles. Internally, we should saturate the airwaves with paper after paper in support of OIT across a spectrum of disciplines.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: vinod and 51 guests