Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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Singha
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 06 Aug 2017 12:26

we must shadow and mimic the enemys every move and be formless and give no clue as to our real intentions ... mirror thy enemy to drive him to frustration.

this is one of the tactics to deal with verbal bullying - if someone keeps saying "you suck you bad" , reflect it back in same volume and tone "you suck you bad" - never try to be logical and dharmic in dealing with illogical attacks.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 06 Aug 2017 12:29

so Cheen one night bombards the area with tear gas and other irritants, while their line runs back to cover.
our men with no protection are hastily pulled back and alarm bells ring all over.

then in a smart judo move, a hidden cheen unit with gas masks sweeps up the hill to occupy the vacated area and form a new line.

your move next.
Image

we have stopped the march of their Ashwamedha...the kings troops and drummers in the party will first make a lot of noise, then small actions before the dlagon lord arrives on the venue with the main army.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 06 Aug 2017 12:30

rsingh wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Guys, Just Do It. The power of social media is immense. Even if we collectively boycott only $200 (and I think we are well past that already) that's quite a few bullets, grenades, liters of fuel, that are denied to the PLA. May save quite a few lives if things get hot. Think in those terms: every bullet's worth of boycott is a life saved.

Heard todin. Me: XXXX credit card is offering 5% off if you use it at Walmart.
SHQ: "But we are not GOING to Walmart. Everything there is made in China". :eek:

Just like they put halal,fair trade and other labels, consumers can force retailers to put "NOT MADE IN CHINA " tag. We need to spread message on social media. Or just make multiple calls to storespond or newe papers..In Europe it is easy.

The other thing is to spam Amazon and ads on other sites asking if the product is made in china

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 06 Aug 2017 12:31

Singha wrote:so Cheen one night bombards the area with tear gas and other irritants, while their line runs back to cover.
our men with no protection are hastily pulled back and alarm bells ring all over.

then in a smart judo move, a hidden cheen unit with gas masks sweeps up the hill to occupy the vacated area and form a new line.

your move next.
Arre guruji? Paagal ho gaya kya? You want ramana to lock this thread? I am Ok with it. New thread needed.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 06 Aug 2017 12:32

a wise warrior plans for the needle and the lance both - ancient cambodian saying.

my prediction is we are not prepared for this scenario and there will be 2 hrs of fatal hesitation in the indian batallion and brigade commander as gas masked UNARMED riot control police swarm all over .. bypassing our limited satyagrahis to occupy new lines at other places ... delhi will be contacted for directions ... CCS will need to meet in emergency session late at night ... then it will be cheens dare for us to start shooting or else accept the new reality. unless you respond asap its game over in such situations. our military commanders are unused to shooting at unarmed people, unlike arabi-sinic commanders

Dlagon lords consul in dilli will be ready the next morning with (a) a press conf announcing minimal non lethal means used to evict yindu intruders and apologise for any minor injuries (b) offer peace talks on all issues (c) open offer to open full diplomatic relation with bhutan and settle all matters bilaterally including returning some part of stealthily occupied lands to settle all 'brotherly misunderstandings'

then it will be yindia looking bad and churlish for rejecting such a reasonable request. MSM will be all over GOI criticising it for war mongering.

you heard it on brf first :mrgreen:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2017 12:41

Singha wrote:so Cheen one night bombards the area with tear gas and other irritants, while their line runs back to cover.
our men with no protection are hastily pulled back and alarm bells ring all over.

then in a smart judo move, a hidden cheen unit with gas masks sweeps up the hill to occupy the vacated area and form a new line.

your move next.
Image

we have stopped the march of their Ashwamedha...the kings troops and drummers in the party will first make a lot of noise, then small actions before the dlagon lord arrives on the venue with the main army.
How many of them at this new line?

We push twice .. thrice that many .. 1x to face and hold the new position and the other 1x or 2x to go around behind them and form a new line further downhill. And this time we go further than the road turnaround point. After all the area is not a funnel where 10 soldiers standing shoulder to shoulder and ten lines deep will form a wall that has to be busted through.

The main lizard army is far far away. We have numerical superiority in the area. Scenarios need to be rooted in ground realities.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 06 Aug 2017 13:03

Singha wrote:a wise warrior plans for the needle and the lance both - ancient cambodian saying.

A wise warrior will use his lance when needled - ancient Vedic saying (Rig Veda MLCMXXXVI)

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Javee » 06 Aug 2017 13:28

Singha,

Here is what Chindu has covered,

However, the Indian side, while posting few hundred soldiers in and around the tri-junction, has stationed a “few battalions” in the area. They have been settled in small camps on the slopes of the mountains, peppered with bunkers all around, while placing a sizeable but undefined number at Nathang base, at an altitude of 13,500 feet.

The movement of heavy vehicles, artillery guns and light tanks are visible after midnight. “However, the area is usually well manned,” says an army official from Kerala. He has been asked to move to the standoff point. He is sitting outside a grocery shop at Kupup, the closest point to Doklam. And he wants us to move on, away from Doklam before night falls.


http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/d ... epage=true

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gyan » 06 Aug 2017 13:40

Deans wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:If Bharat were to break all diplomatic ties with cheen, and stop any kind of business means not only imports but exports too, would that bring about the meltdown?


Our exports to China are mostly commodities and another country will replace us. Better to increase tariff and non tariff barriers for their
exports. (just a 5% increase in Cellphones, electronics, basic chemicals, solar panels & some equipment is enough). Continue to allow those
products that can help build our infrastructure. On the non tariff side, increase investigations of dumping and under-invoicing and ensure that
`random checks' by our customs are mostly for Chinese imports.


I think that people on BRF should be aware that lot of imports from China is under-invoiced by ten times ( i.e. 1000%) in order to evade duties at Indian ports/customs barriers. We should impose 20% flat tax on Chinese goods under security Clause of WTO along with comprehensive MIP. This will allow us to divert our imports to friendly nations with whom we can also discuss (counter) trade i.e. measures to increase Indian Exports, which will never be allowed by the Chinese.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gyan » 06 Aug 2017 13:45

ramana wrote:GD,

I will tell you my gut feeling. It is similar to 1962 and even 1979. Location, rhetoric, a political leadership crisis in China, US too busy and Russia ambivalent. The difference is Indian military is in strength in Doklam area and already alerted all along the LAC. Now, this is also same as in NEFA or now Arunachal Pradesh. Aksai Chin was thinly defended and hence got lost. Not so with regard to Arunachal.


In 1962 we had Canberra bombers and Aircraft Carriers but no winter clothing, poor road network, poor comms, limited artillery etc. We should prepare better with basics, my list of indigenous products is ;-

NVDs
Comms
Sniper rifles
AMRs
MMGs
HMGs
120mm Mortars
Winter Survival Equipment
Handgrenades
AGLs
UBGLs
RPGs
Ghatak Rifles
Stocking of food, ammo, bunker building material, fuel
Snow Scooters
man portable Bridges
Ponies, porters etc
Intel network

Nothing fancy, just basics and logistice

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Prasad » 06 Aug 2017 13:45

The guys at the border are now border guards and not pla regular. While sacrificing own men for gleatel good is a possibility, any withdrawal of their men will lead to serious thinking from our end and reinforcement and immediate consults with higher ups. Won't take that long to send back dien orders to evict and use any means necessary as deemed fit by local commanders.

Also, bludgeon for a pinprick. Enough Gandhian/eye for an eye. Entire head for a punch.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2017 13:56

Meanwhile, I repeat:

Just do it. Let the guvrmand worry about Terminological Exactitude and WTO Compliance and all other stuff. If it says Made In China, put it back, return it, tell the vendor that u r not paying murderers and bullies to bully and murder our friends and compatriots.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 06 Aug 2017 14:05

Singha wrote:
my prediction is we are not prepared for this scenario and there will be 2 hrs of fatal hesitation in the indian batallion and brigade commander as gas masked UNARMED riot control police swarm all over .. bypassing our limited satyagrahis to occupy new lines at other places ... delhi will be contacted for directions ... CCS will need to meet in emergency session late at night ... then it will be cheens dare for us to start shooting or else accept the new reality. unless you respond asap its game over in such situations. our military commanders are unused to shooting at unarmed people, unlike arabi-sinic commanders


This is similar to the discussion on Paki TNW. If the Chino want their armed police killed they are welcome.

We will have press conference about IA been attacked by armed men in uniform. Who cares if they are PAP or PLA

In Kashmir stone throwing ops gets you shot. Chinis wants to tear gas it's their choice. :D

Moreover if PAP managed to capture position which PLA could not after 40, then PLA better buy some tear gas.

It would be a bigger loss of face for PLA.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Chinmayanand » 06 Aug 2017 14:24

In my badland town of eastern UP , even the normal junta is boycotting Cheeni maal. The mango men are wise enough to know what to do. Who knows this better than Damaad ji & his Cheeni embassy visiting BiL.

No china made rakhi selling in market, nobody buying gionee,vivo,oppo etc phones. China is yet to face the consequences.

Even a diehard Samajwadi friend of mine swears to boycott china stuff. He had to buy a phone and he asked me which company is not chinese. I told him about Samsung, Motorola & Sony. He bought a samsung.

Cheen murdabad has entered the psyche of even diehard
BJP opponents. Except for the sold-out opposition leaders , I think the entire nation stands behind any firm decision taken by GoI .

My 2 paisa excluding GST ...

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby RamSuresh » 06 Aug 2017 14:41

Chinmayanand wrote: I told him about Samsung, Motorola & Sony. He bought a samsung.


My 2 paisa excluding GST ...

Motorola is also Chinese

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Manish_Sharma » 06 Aug 2017 15:40

Singha wrote:we must shadow and mimic the enemys every move and be formless and give no clue as to our real intentions ... mirror thy enemy to drive him to frustration.

this is one of the tactics to deal with verbal bullying - if someone keeps saying "you suck you bad" , reflect it back in same volume and tone "you suck you bad" - never try to be logical and dharmic in dealing with illogical attacks.


Singha jee, in 2014 you had written a story of NaMo vs shezada and as it neared it's completion the result was a complete rout of "Breaking Bharat Forces" and victory of nationalists. Please; time has come for another scenario......

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Manish_Sharma » 06 Aug 2017 15:45

Hari Seldon wrote:Time Modi sarkar (or even a private bill by a nationalist MP) tables the Country of Origin Labeling (COOL) Act in parliament.

Bill signed into law will mandate that all finished goods imported into India should have the country of origin (or of highest value contribution) to the product clearly labeled in English.

Non-labeling or misleading labeling can lead to seizure of all such goods. Etc.

Will make it easy and more credible to dry-run a few boycotts on cheeni goods, methinks. Only.

Please email to:
mrs.mlekhi@gmail.com

Smt. Meenakshi Delhi, she is very responsive.

Also Sh. Rajeev Chandrasekhar RS Member

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Deans » 06 Aug 2017 16:14

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:Time Modi sarkar (or even a private bill by a nationalist MP) tables the Country of Origin Labeling (COOL) Act in parliament.

Bill signed into law will mandate that all finished goods imported into India should have the country of origin (or of highest value contribution) to the product clearly labeled in English.

Non-labeling or misleading labeling can lead to seizure of all such goods. Etc.

Will make it easy and more credible to dry-run a few boycotts on cheeni goods, methinks. Only.

Please email to:
mrs.mlekhi@gmail.com

Smt. Meenakshi Delhi, she is very responsive.
Also Sh. Rajeev Chandrasekhar RS Member


Since this law exists for food products, there is no reason why it can't be extended to all consumer products.

P.S - Rajeev Chandrashekar is not responsive (I've tried). People at BRF could try (I'm listing e-mails which don't go through a babu):
- Nirmala Sitharaman (She is the minister in charge). ( nsitharaman@gmail.com )
- Seshadri Chari. (@seshadrichari on twitter)
- PMO
- Gen VK Singh retd ( veekaysingh@gmail.com )
- Rakesh Sinha (India policy foundation) indiapolicy@gmail.com (they are the RSS think tank on foreign policy).
Last edited by Deans on 06 Aug 2017 21:57, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 06 Aug 2017 16:30

UlanBatori wrote:Guys, Just Do It. The power of social media is immense. Even if we collectively boycott only $200 (and I think we are well past that already) that's quite a few bullets, grenades, liters of fuel, that are denied to the PLA. May save quite a few lives if things get hot. Think in those terms: every bullet's worth of boycott is a life saved.

Heard todin. Me: XXXX credit card is offering 5% off if you use it at Walmart.
SHQ: "But we are not GOING to Walmart. Everything there is made in China". :eek:



quite true .. walmart is almost entirely outsourcing from China at cut throat rates .. with more profit . they could if they want get more stuff from South east Asia , India and Europe.Money making is ok but you need to ask yourself where you get it from !

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kancha » 06 Aug 2017 16:55

Blog: Bhutan-China Boundary Dispute: A historical perspective

Twitter Link

A short blog on historical perspective of the Bhutan - China Boundary Dispute.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2017 17:04

China pretends to sell out its puppet at UN

A senior aide to Tillerson told ABC News that China signing off on anything is a major accomplishment.
:rotfl: Loundeyes Capitarist Impeliarists foored again!

The new sanctions were drafted by the U.S. in consultation with China and passed unanimously at the U.N. Saturday. They block North Korean sales of coal, iron and iron ore, lead and lead ore, and seafood. The sanctions also halt any expansion of North Korea’s guest worker programs in other countries.

The revenue from these different sectors, worth as much as $1 trillion annually by U.S. estimates, is believed to fund North Korea’s expensive ballistic missile and nuclear programs.

{Who the heck does numbers for ABCNews?}

Ah, SO! that is only 1/3rd of NoKo's revenues.
North Korea earns approximately $3 billion per year from exports, according to the U.S. mission to the U.N., meaning the sanctions could block as much as one-third of North Korea’s revenue.


The other 2/3rd is to China. Actually 95% of exports are to China, including the missiles transferred via China to Pak.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby KL Dubey » 06 Aug 2017 17:58

Javee wrote:These moves would result in a few million people losing their jobs in the steel and coal sectors, and put severe pressure on trade unions controlled by the Communist Party. China said last year 1.8 million jobs will be eliminated during the process of industrial restructuring, but has managed to cut only 726,000 of them, accounting for just 40 percent of the plan.


China is hoping to use these unemployed stiffs and some of its dollah stash for "belt and road" projects to build more useless infrastructure in other countries. Doubt that is going to find many takers.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby KL Dubey » 06 Aug 2017 18:05

shiv wrote:
Singha wrote:a wise warrior plans for the needle and the lance both - ancient cambodian saying.

A wise warrior will use his lance when needled - ancient Vedic saying (Rig Veda MLCMXXXVI)


Ancient Indian saying - "don't listen to ancient sayings of other countries." :D

(I think there was a similar Bruce Willis dialogue in some old film, forgot the name. Had an Irish vs Italian gangster theme).

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2017 18:47

Ananth Krishnan‏ @ananthkrishnan 3h3 hours ago

How Chinese movies show the PLA winning border stand-offs (From "Wolf Warrior 1", likely at Vietnam/Laos border)
https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/894134574204112897

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2017 19:06

See YOuTube version of "Rakta Thilakam". PROVES clearly how Chinese got massacred in 1962? What I remember most is the hundreds and thousands rolling down the snow slopes in their spherical mao uniforms. Dead. Same guys died many times.
Cowards (and PLA) die a thousand deaths, the Brave die only once.


Shivaji Ganesan sprinted all the way from where the cactus grew in the desert, to the snow-clad peaks carrying The Tiranga. Wearing only an open-shirted summer uniform (I think this part was sadly true of our troops of that time).

Take THAT, u Gawdless commie goons!!

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2017 19:23


pankajs
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2017 19:52

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/indias-u ... ard-power/
India's Uncompromising Stand Against China in the Himalayas Is Backed Up With Hard Power -- Nitin A. Gokhale

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 06 Aug 2017 19:57

pankajs wrote:Ananth Krishnan‏ @ananthkrishnan 3h3 hours ago

How Chinese movies show the PLA winning border stand-offs (From "Wolf Warrior 1", likely at Vietnam/Laos border)
https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/894134574204112897

The Vietnamese border mountain slopes are littered with graves of thousands of PLA soldiers who died in c. 1979.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby deejay » 06 Aug 2017 20:32

kancha wrote:Blog: Bhutan-China Boundary Dispute: A historical perspective

Twitter Link

A short blog on historical perspective of the Bhutan - China Boundary Dispute.


Nice blog Sir.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby RamSuresh » 06 Aug 2017 20:40

Has there been any GoI assessment of chinese body count in the 1962 war, based on bodies left over during retreat. If there were large scale (10K ++) as is some posts have mentioned here, shouldnt there be some uncovered even in snow?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 06 Aug 2017 21:31

RamSuresh wrote:Has there been any GoI assessment of chinese body count in the 1962 war, based on bodies left over during retreat. If there were large scale (10K ++) as is some posts have mentioned here, shouldnt there be some uncovered even in snow?

Confucius say: "Nevel ask such questions in the intelest of psy-ops"

That said:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/hist ... gompa.html
But Avasthy’s men surrounded their gallant leader and fought to the bitter end. Finally it came down to hand to hand combat and after a few hours the Chinese prevailed. The battlefield was a ghastly sight. Over 200 Chinese bodies and 126 Indian bodies littered the area. Every Indian was killed or wounded ie 100 percent casualties. Among them were Avasthy and his fellow officers. A shepherd boy who later became the Head Lama of the monastery is the only witness to this heroic episode. The Chinese dug a mass grave for the Indians and left a flattened ration tin with the names of the officers. After the ceasefire the bodies were retrieved. Avasthy’s body was found with a blood soaked letter to his wife

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Karthik S » 06 Aug 2017 21:46

IIRC, at Rezang La, we killed more than 1000. 123 Indian soldiers fought and very few made it. That was a famous last stand of the Kumaon regiment.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Pulikeshi » 06 Aug 2017 21:56

Chines Media Discussion on India - China - Bhutan Border Dispute at Doklam area

Several fails on the media front still continues...

1. Got to give it to the Chinese - invite some pacifist Indian reporter who argues logic, and put them against a Chinese propaganda Kernel!
2. Robust play books are needed for education of the Indian intelligencia to deal with this pretty clever propaganda by the CHinese...
3. There seems to be a trade lobby group in India that is pro-China, where is the equivalent from the India side cultivating a Chinese trade lobby?
4. Why not get Indian media to invite these Chinese propaganda Kernels on Arnab show? Even WION seems 'balanced' - good to upset this balance!

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Deans » 06 Aug 2017 22:00

Karthik S wrote:IIRC, at Rezang La, we killed more than 1000. 123 Indian soldiers fought and very few made it. That was a famous last stand of the Kumaon regiment.


Yes, Chinese dead at Rezang La were higher than the officially admitted PLA figure for the whole 1962 war. The ferocious resistance from just 1
company was possibly a factor that prevented the Chinese from advancing beyond Rezang La.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 06 Aug 2017 22:14

Pullekeshi

What are China's war aims?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 06 Aug 2017 22:15

put google earth in 3D mode and follow the precarious road as it winds its away across the hills and then clings to the western valley side of the Lohit river going to walong after a eternity. there is no way in hell we can resupply or hold that place unless we station some 10,000 cannons into caves in the hills north korea style .
https://earth.google.com/web/@27.875962 ... 90746t,-0r

this is one area where we might have to accept losing territory

however before i disrobe my lungi, let me say the chinese have it even worse with a vast mass of snow capped mountains in eastern tibet and roads snaking along the sides of deep valleys. https://earth.google.com/web/@28.517223 ... 616708t,0r

so perhaps this region will see no action at all.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Prasad » 06 Aug 2017 22:21

If ever a man was aptly named it was Maj Shaitan Singh. 1100+ chinese dead. By 100+ Indian soldiers. That's the kind of a$$kicking they got despite overwhelming numbers in that particular area.

There will always be a trade lobby within that seeks conciliatory murmurs from the govt instead of a strong stand. We've seen that through the ages going as far as rank treachery. Is there a similar constituency in China? There must be.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby VKumar » 06 Aug 2017 22:22

UlanBatori wrote:Meanwhile, I repeat:

Just do it. Let the guvrmand worry about Terminological Exactitude and WTO Compliance and all other stuff. If it says Made In China, put it back, return it, tell the vendor that u r not paying murderers and bullies to bully and murder our friends and compatriots.


Well said.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Karthik S » 06 Aug 2017 22:23

Singha wrote:put google earth in 3D mode and follow the precarious road as it winds its away across the hills and then clings to the western valley side of the Lohit river going to walong after a eternity. there is no way in hell we can resupply or hold that place unless we station some 10,000 cannons into caves in the hills north korea style .
https://earth.google.com/web/@27.875962 ... 90746t,-0r

this is one area where we might have to accept losing territory

however before i disrobe my lungi, let me say the chinese have it even worse with a vast mass of snow capped mountains in eastern tibet and roads snaking along the sides of deep valleys. https://earth.google.com/web/@28.517223 ... 616708t,0r

so perhaps this region will see no action at all.


With air power advantage on our side, won't it be costly for the chinese to hold onto any territory they capture?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 06 Aug 2017 22:34

During Kargil it was said to Vajpayee, India can do many things like cross the Border, IAF etc.

He said in end the Pakis would be holding the Kargil heights do clearing them out is the top priority.

Similarly the confrontation will be mainly ground based with everything in supporting role. And short time span to gain advantage quickly.
So IAF has to be used from day one.

ACM Dhanoa already said ready for short sharp 2.5 front war
Army already backed up Dokhlam theater, alerted all troops.
IN could be anywhere.


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