Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 04 Jan 2015 08:09

sunilUpa wrote:My sources say that NTRO is monitoring phones of all newstraders to smoke out the 'sources'...lol

Like it. lol.

-Ankit

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 04 Jan 2015 08:16

Surya wrote: so they come close to the coast to exchange?? seriously

or they decide they would go the land route to thailand

If you read the MV A Rainbow incident, the ship had nearly taken same route as a short cut.

I don't know if 365 kms from shore is coast. You seem to have new definition.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 04 Jan 2015 08:22

Praveen Swami was claiming that the boat was carrying smugglers and contained either diesel fuel or booze. Two really dumb questions come to mind:

1. Is there really diesel smuggling going on from Pakland to India? I thought the price of diesel was higher in their country and there was some talk about Reliance exporting stuff to them a while back? How could they smuggle it in, when it costs more in their country to begin with. I suppose it is possible if they could pipe off some diesel they get from free from Kuwait/Saudi (in which case it would indeed by cheaper than Indian diesel), but I doubt they would do that, especially if they have a shortage in their own country and can sell it on their own black market.

2. Booze? From Pakistan?? I'm aware that there are small liquor producers in Pakistan, despite being an Islamic country, but do Pakistani brands of liquor have *any* kind of market share in India at all? If so, I'm completely unaware of any such brand name. If he claimed that it was herbs, that would have made more sense.

I figured that the ship burned up because of its own diesel fuel supply for its engines catching fire, not any smuggled stuff in barrels.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 04 Jan 2015 08:23

What have we done in our previous life to endure this? Switch on the TV - Barkha, Thaper...open newspaper - Praveen Swami and his theories, come to BRF...Chacko and his sources..

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 04 Jan 2015 08:24

yea I will take a fishing boat for a trip to thailand because you see - there was a shortage of weapons in an area where the ltte could get weapons to its hearts content. Oh hold it - its diesel - correct they were taking diesel to Thailand. No - liquor??

you seem to have set a new depth for sleazy journalism.

chetak said it right - its tribal

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 04 Jan 2015 08:28

ArmenT wrote:Praveen Swami was claiming that the boat was carrying smugglers and contained either diesel fuel or booze. Two really dumb questions come to mind:

1. Is there really diesel smuggling going on from Pakland to India? I thought the price of diesel was higher in their country and there was some talk about Reliance exporting stuff to them a while back? How could they smuggle it in, when it costs more in their country to begin with. I suppose it is possible if they could pipe off some diesel they get from free from Kuwait/Saudi (in which case it would indeed by cheaper than Indian diesel), but I doubt they would do that, especially if they have a shortage in their own country and can sell it on their own black market.

2. Booze? From Pakistan?? I'm aware that there are small liquor producers in Pakistan, despite being an Islamic country, but do Pakistani brands of liquor have *any* kind of market share in India at all? If so, I'm completely unaware of any such brand name. If he claimed that it was herbs, that would have made more sense.

I figured that the ship burned up because of its own diesel fuel supply for its engines catching fire, not any smuggled stuff in barrels.

I think Praveen is claiming this is Pakistani Internal smuggling operation - fully peaceful...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Jan 2015 08:29

even a boat load of marijuana would not burn yellow and red.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 04 Jan 2015 08:38

Surya wrote:yea I will take a fishing boat for a trip to thailand because you see - there was a shortage of weapons in an area where the ltte could get weapons to its hearts content. Oh hold it - its diesel - correct they were taking diesel to Thailand. No - liquor??

It can also be arms transfer at sea for the Paki boats as mentioned in the news. Those mentions are by CG and not me.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 04 Jan 2015 08:42

chackojoseph wrote:
Surya wrote:yea I will take a fishing boat for a trip to thailand because you see - there was a shortage of weapons in an area where the ltte could get weapons to its hearts content. Oh hold it - its diesel - correct they were taking diesel to Thailand. No - liquor??
It can also be arms transfer at sea for the Paki boats as mentioned in the news. Those mentions are by CG and not me.

Can you show one sentence where Coast Guard actually says that the boat might have been transporting arms to Thailand?

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 04 Jan 2015 08:47

For me, a profile of Indian journalists is emerging:
* cavalier disregard for truth and truthfulness
* Absolutely closed mind, impervious to reason and logic
* Very low quality argumentative skills: presenting weak and flimsy arguments with an air of great importance
* poor expository and language skills
* clueless about what normal educated persons would consider factual reporting
* rigid, formulaic reliance on a few well-worn lines of critical analysis, however weak, wrong and unsuitable they may be.

All in all, specimens of profoundly inferior merit. Their survival in Indian system is a disturbing sign that things are very wrong in India.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 04 Jan 2015 08:48

yea put two words of the CG, put 3 words of yours and 5 of sources and muddy the waters and stir the pot - all in the name of so called journalism.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Jan 2015 08:53

klnm*y, blame it on tolerance! time to establish alternate msm, and that goes by pure merits.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 04 Jan 2015 08:56

Surya wrote:yea put two words of the CG, put 3 words of yours and 5 of sources and muddy the waters and stir the pot - all in the name of so called journalism.

And why not? I am not from PIB or a government spokesman. This time, except Praveen Swamy (who always bats for pakis in my opinion) , all the journalists have done a good job. It is the government agencies which are talking out of turn and incoherent.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 04 Jan 2015 09:02

your answer says it all -

actually the real journalists like Nitin Gokhale etc have got it right

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 04 Jan 2015 09:04

He also did a good job in his own manner.

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 04 Jan 2015 09:08

https://in.newshub.org/come-clean-on-pa ... 48257.html

So, congress has now come down to this pathetic level?

New Delhi: The Congress has asked the government to "come clean" on the Pakistani boat issue and explain "which terrorist organisation" was behind the episode that unfolded on the high seas.

"Government should come clean on it. There is no evidence. How can you say that a terrorist attack was prevented? How did they (government) come to the conclusion that it was a terrorist boat? It is very strange. Nothing has been explained. Which terrorist organisation was behind it?" party spokesperson Ajoy Kumar said, citing media reports which have questioned the government version about the interception and the subsequent blast on board and sinking of the fishing boat.

Why cant these people make use their brains or give it much needed rest? Dumbos: below is the answer.

http://www.firstpost.com/world/goof-up- ... 28351.html

Simple reason: smugglers do not usually blow themselves up.

Also, the most important question is this: even assuming forensic evidence from the boat shows that it was merely carrying contraband, should the Indian Coast Guard have been proceeding on that assumption? The first duty of the police is to ensure that they do not get killed by rogues. So they are in the clear, any which way you see the issue.

At the very least, we have to thank the Coast Guard for taking preventive action, even if it meant some collateral damage. It is impossible to avoid collateral damage in a war-like situation.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 04 Jan 2015 09:14

There is an amusing expression I learned in Australia which is truly apt on many levels for describing the self-congratulating mutual admiration society that many Indian "journalists" have joined.

Urban Dictionary: Shit Stirrer
The last thing we need is shit stirring journalism by those who are more shocked and confused by the self-assumed violation of a SOP they know nothing about. It is also reprehensible that there is more shock about the self-assumed nonsense than there ought to be about the terrorism Pakistan tried to perpetrate but got caught with its pants down.

It really boils down to shock that Modi and Doval are governing, something UPA couldn't do for a decade. I think the shock is simply misplaced.

brvarsh · Post by **brvarsh** » 04 Jan 2015 09:25

Sometimes Congress sounds more like a Pakistani Ambassador but from the news what it sounds like we have intercepts. I am sure it gets recorded so why not we give those recordings to play over TV and have the victory over our own internal rants? This will also give message to the "real ones" that we have capacity and reach to break their neck if it comes down to that. For example a photo of the house where Dawood is living and say we know where he is sends shivers so lets do the same this time too.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Jan 2015 09:26

chackojoseph wrote:I am not looking at the SOP etc. If CG follows SOP, the Navy will be the first one to know it. Navy is terribly quite. Etc.

Navy is terribly quite ____. What is the word in the blank?

It is an open and shut case. Period. One hour of hot pursuit means that boat was deep into Indian waters. Fishing boats, if they stray by chance into neighbouring country's waters, would not go so deep. Let us assume, for the sake argument (i.e. if you are up for it) that they indeed did. Then why run from the authorities, that too for one long hour?

Unless ... unless one does not believe in the official version. If I were to challenge official version, I will come up with real evidence to disprove the official version, not some namby-pamby "he said she said" American divorce soap opera.

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 04 Jan 2015 09:29

+1 matrimc
We are not just fighting the pakis, we are fighting these aman ka tamasha type lunatics as well.

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 04 Jan 2015 09:31

Chako are you aware of Navy assets at/around Porbandar?

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 04 Jan 2015 09:36

chackojoseph wrote:
Surya wrote:yea put two words of the CG, put 3 words of yours and 5 of sources and muddy the waters and stir the pot - all in the name of so called journalism.
And why not? I am not from PIB or a government spokesman. This time, except Praveen Swamy (who always bats for pakis in my opinion) , all the journalists have done a good job. It is the government agencies which are talking out of turn and incoherent.

Do you really believe that people doing an "arms transfer" would do it so far from the Pakistan coast and allow the boat to be "exploded" .
Prasanna

saip · Post by **saip** » 04 Jan 2015 09:37

Unfortunately every Indian journalist has unnamed sources. Usually reliable source (the person he bumped into on the street), very reliable source (his mother or the maid), Very highly reliable source (he/she just made it up).

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Jan 2015 09:44

chackojoseph wrote:That is how the chain of command works after 9/11.

What? 9/11 (Sep. 11, not Nov. 9th) happened in the US. What does it have to do with how the chain of command in India works? I am very daft. IOW, just a tad daft than Indian journaliests. me no can understood the 9/11 connexion to dhaga e kamandu of Indian navy.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 04 Jan 2015 09:58

There is another one from NDTV @umashankarsingh wants Navy to release the video to get real story. Junk Journos these are really. Why would any Navy release the operational secrets via videos?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 04 Jan 2015 10:01

geeth wrote:Chako are you aware of Navy assets at/around Porbandar?

Geeth, this incident is 365 kms off Porbandar. Please be clear about that. Navy has UAV assets there. NOIC (Gujarat) is an operational office, meaning it controls the assets deployed there (though UAV is under WNC direct command). It has responsibility of (naturally) seaward defence including daman and diu. It is also responsible for harbour security. it is the primary liason between state govt and marine forces like CG, state's marine police (or whatever they are called), BSF etc with relation to maritime security. Then there is Dwaraka II.

'deployments' there are not open source, but a recent question in december during navy day I was told there is always Naval ships there.

This area is now so important that a FOC of VADm rank is going to be based here after completion of the new base.

In past ops too, Naval assets were the first one to reach and then comes Cg vessels. Here a Cg air mission was sent then a CG ship was sent from coast. This is where the problem starts. Why deployed ships were not sent for a cordon? This is such a sensitive sector that an asset/s is always there.

I have given you the reply to the best of my ability. Anymore questions related, I don't know.

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 04 Jan 2015 10:06

Ajai Shukla has a blogpost up. He seems to be insinuating that it is a possible CG f-up hence Navy is distancing itself (or feeding this info to defence journos). Chacko, I guess this is what you are stating as well?

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2015/01/t ... inger.html

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 Jan 2015 10:07

Akshay Kapoor wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Ldev, if my theory is correct then in this match India beat Pakistan 6-0, 6-0,6-0. We can spend time discussing how a few points were lost by India. BUT Pakistan did not even win one game. India and Pakistan are preparing for the next match. Commentators and fans will discuss thread bare on those few lost points.

If I read Doval and Modi correctly they are going to wage a war inside Pakistan. Pakis should be very afraid.

Waging war in Pakland - Ghee shakkar SwamyG . But What makes you say this ? Please share with us. I have heard Doval pre NSA many times of course but what makes you say this now ?

Look at the video from February 2014 (just an year before) in which Doval provides some clues to the strategic response. The speech was given at SASTRA University and it is a gem (I posted the video in the Internal Security and Modi dhaagas, you must have already watched it if you have been following Doval. In case you have not watched it, please watch it as Doval gives the blue print of the strategic response.). He lists three types of responses:
1) Defensive.
2) Offensive-Defensive (or Defensive-Offensive)
3) Offensive.

He explains we were in the Defensive mode; and that there are practical limitations of going on the offensive (large scale war that could escalate). He recounts India's NFU policy, and lack of the policy from Pakistan. I think he understands Pakistan and Islam very well - especially the political Islam. So he is not going to advise #1 or #3. So the only option left is Offensive-Defensive - which means India cannot just sit and act defensively and India would have to take it into Pakistan. If I read correctly, he can reduce or eradicate Jihadi terror in 10 years.

He understands sabotage, subversion and espionage; and is going to use them as primary weapons. There is simply no use in JUST increasing the expenditure on defense because that is option #1. In Modi and him, we have a good pair. And they are not going to sit on their butt wringing hands; for they are men of thought AND action. He mentions "smothering" of Pakistan.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 04 Jan 2015 10:13

Pak boat explosion: Intercepts under scrutiny as Coast guard ship returns

The anti national journos were not wrong after all.

However, forensic experts contacted by The Sunday Express noted that photographs of the burning boat showed its structure was intact, a fact inconsistent with the explosions burning munitions would normally set off. The flames also showed no signs of the white plumes characteristically associated with fires involving explosives. “It’s quite hard to set diesel on fire,” a Naval forensics expert said. “So, investigators would want to take a close look at what might have set off the fire — which would, of course, have to include the possibility of firearms being used to target it.”

In addition to the forensic evidence, government sources said, the MoD has also asked the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO) for logs and audiotape of intercepted Thuraya satellite-phone communications, on the basis of which it asked the Coast Guard and Navy to intercept the fishing boat.

For reasons that remain unclear, the intelligence was not immediately shared with Research and Analysis Wing or Intelligence Bureau until two days later, even though the NTRO has no mandate to analyse or evaluate intelligence —its domain being technical collection, not analysis or operations. “Perhaps NTRO misinterpreted or mishandled the traffic it had,” an MoD official said.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Jan 2015 10:17

chackojoseph wrote:Badly handled PR.

So you are saying, in effect, that there is no implication that GoI is lying. If so, why don't you say so in so many words rather than beating around the bush?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Jan 2015 10:19

Are UAVs equipped with IR, i.e. can they see in the night?

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 04 Jan 2015 10:23

chackojoseph wrote:Pak boat explosion: Intercepts under scrutiny as Coast guard ship returns

The anti national journos were not wrong after all.

However, forensic experts contacted by The Sunday Express noted that photographs of the burning boat showed its structure was intact, a fact inconsistent with the explosions burning munitions would normally set off. The flames also showed no signs of the white plumes characteristically associated with fires involving explosives. “It’s quite hard to set diesel on fire,” a Naval forensics expert said. “So, investigators would want to take a close look at what might have set off the fire — which would, of course, have to include the possibility of firearms being used to target it.”

In addition to the forensic evidence, government sources said, the MoD has also asked the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO) for logs and audiotape of intercepted Thuraya satellite-phone communications, on the basis of which it asked the Coast Guard and Navy to intercept the fishing boat.

For reasons that remain unclear, the intelligence was not immediately shared with Research and Analysis Wing or Intelligence Bureau until two days later, even though the NTRO has no mandate to analyse or evaluate intelligence —its domain being technical collection, not analysis or operations. “Perhaps NTRO misinterpreted or mishandled the traffic it had,” an MoD official said.

Another Praveen Swami farticle.

What rag tag forensic experts are these now? Who gave them the mandate to question the government's statement? The highlighted portion from the first post in this thread explains why the boat is intact. The fire took hold at first and the explosion occurred later. The explosion could easily have been due to the materials being carried by the boat.

K Mehta wrote:News channels showing news of interception of a boat which blew up on being pursued and running out of fuel.

Boat Intel given by NTRO and coast guard carried out the interception after tracking using Do228 and then ships
more photos here
http://pib.nic.in/archieve/others/2015/ ... 010203.pdf
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/mbErel.aspx?relid=114289
Coast Guard Intercepts Suspect Boat Carrying Explosives in Arabian Sea

An intelligence based midnight operation was conducted on the intervening night of Dec 31 and yesterdayby the Indian Coast Guard ships and aircraft to intercept a suspect fishing boat in Arabian Sea near Indo-Pak maritime boundary, approximately 365 km from Porbander.
As per the intelligence inputs received on 31st December, a fishing boat from KetiBunder near Karachi was planning some illicit transaction in Arabian Sea. Based on the input, Coast Guard Dornier aircraft undertook sea - air coordinated search and located the suspect fishing boat. Thereafter, the Coast Guard ship on patrol in area was diverted and intercepted the unlit boat at about midnight of 31st December in position 365 km West-South West of Porbandar.
The Coast Guard ship warned the fishing boat to stop for further investigation of the crew and cargo; however, the boat increased speed and tried to escape away from the Indian side of maritime boundary. The hot pursuit continued for nearly one hour and the Coast Guard ship managed to stop the fishing boat after firing warning shots. Four persons were seen on the boat who disregarded all warnings by the Coast Guard ship to stop and cooperate with investigation. Soon thereafter, the crew hid themselves in below deck compartment and set the boat on fire, which resulted in explosion and major fire on the boat.
Due to darkness, bad weather and strong winds, the boat and persons on board could not be saved or recovered. The boat burnt and sank in the same position, in early hours of 1st January. Coast Guard ships and aircraft are continuing operations in area to search for any possible survivor. Coast Guard and other security agencies are maintaining high vigil in maritime and coastal areas since last couple of months due to several inputs on threat from the sea.

Now that Praveen Swami has included RAW as well into his confusion, I guess the IITs are left.

-------------------------------------
Corrected Swamyi

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 04 Jan 2015 10:26

Basically Praveen Swami doesn't know anything and so he is making up everything. I bet the "MoD official" that Praveen Swami is quoting isn't anyone who has a role to play in such tactical response operations.

-------------------------------------
Corrected Swamyi

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 04 Jan 2015 10:38

pankajs wrote:I definitely feel there is something fishy in the GOI/IN/CG response. Why hasn't the Andaman command issued a statement?? For that matter why haven't we heard from the Leh or is it Srinagar based 15 corp?

Modi jaawab do!

Gurudev aapko shat shat naman.!!!

I switched off for the night and came back to read the missed posts. This one is the best. Awesome saar.

Chacko ji, please do an analysis on your own and see if you were searching for the truth or faults in this operation. You may be right, the GOI may not have let out the whole truth, but seriously coming up with crazy theories of diesel, Thailand, bootlegging, all grasping in thin air to do damage? Why sir? Should you not have some solid leads which you can back up before you start discussing CT's? Absence of evidence does not mean they are not there. There may some very important reasons for not giving out further information.

For the def journalists of Indian MSM: Indian defence matters are critical for INDIA. Please do not use MSM space for your drawing room discussions. Else let me repeat: You are Resident Indian Media Pimps Of Pakistan.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 04 Jan 2015 10:46

Again, discrepancy.

CG says it sunk and then returns with the charred remains of the boat. here is depth chart http://oceana.org/en/explore/marine-places/arabian-sea

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 04 Jan 2015 10:53

Instead of quoting unnamed "MoD sources", let me quote a named MoD source - like the Minister of Defence onlee.

Koi shak?

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 04 Jan 2015 10:58

Should science revision classes be mandatory for journalists? It seems so.

When a boat explodes and sinks, there is no rule in the book of physics which requires every fragment of the boat to sink. Charred remains can still be recovered.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 04 Jan 2015 11:00

I am not one to 'love big brother' so to say and some healthy skepticism is good for journalism.

But it does amuse me to no ends to see the kind of contrived nonsense being put out in farticles in the guise of 'fact seeking', 'just asking questions' etc..

it reveals more about the questioner actually.

reveals an utter lack of faith in the competence of the forces, that we have a CG who can actually intercept an hostile vessel etc.

In pretty much every other country, the mainstream media will be putting the official version out and then the reporters will do background work to check it out and see if there's anything more to this, and while doing that work - if they find something fishy, then they explore that and present that to public as fact finding etc.

here, they START with disbelief and the assumption that the govt is lying. and then just pile on with provocative ticker lines and full circus after that...

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 04 Jan 2015 11:07

The problem is that in the US, the MSM and public would never doubt the USCG or armed services. Period. They are held in high esteem and all sorts of respect for the men and women in uniform. In India the MSM attacks the very institutions and organizations that are protecting freedom.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 04 Jan 2015 11:14

I have not seen a single news item where they have been disrespected. The discrepancy in claims are being questioned.