LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
^^^^
IAF did not propose an IAF officer (serving or ex) for the role. The focus should be on the plane and not the individual.
IAF did not propose an IAF officer (serving or ex) for the role. The focus should be on the plane and not the individual.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
they probably think that they avoided stepping on a landmine. At least the IN will have it's carrier borne LCAs.eklavya wrote:^^^^
IAF did not propose an IAF officer (serving or ex) for the role. The focus should be on the plane and not the individual.
Also, they may not have anyone with the requisite experience to head a program like this.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Chetak, IAF is not a design and development organisation. IAF does not aspire to control ADA for the sake of control.
Navy LCA and IAF LCA will either both work or both fail; in fact, being heavier, the Navy LCA faces a greater technological challenge. PAF F-16 Blk 52 will not make allowances for which version they are up against.
Navy LCA and IAF LCA will either both work or both fail; in fact, being heavier, the Navy LCA faces a greater technological challenge. PAF F-16 Blk 52 will not make allowances for which version they are up against.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Perfect. Navy is willing to put it's money where it's mouth is, willing to share both the glory and the blame.Navy LCA and IAF LCA will either both work or both fail;
So, if IAF version of LCA fails, the Air Force will hang it on the ADA and walk away from it all "blameless" and look for a new toy.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
one thing is for sure , LCA prg. failure(though it will not) will be a bigger setback to the overall planning of IAF than IN.
Tejas urgency for IAF is same as Scorpene (though imported, TOT prd. ) urgency for IN and not NLCA.
Most of the IN Mig 29 K are still at INS Hansa
Tejas urgency for IAF is same as Scorpene (though imported, TOT prd. ) urgency for IN and not NLCA.
Most of the IN Mig 29 K are still at INS Hansa
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
and more in the pipelinedhiraj wrote:one thing is for sure , LCA prg. failure(though it will not) will be a bigger setback to the overall planning of IAF than IN.
Tejas urgency for IAF is same as Scorpene (though imported, TOT prd. ) urgency for IN and not NLCA.
Most of the IN Mig 29 K are still at INS Hansa
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
one was talking program management onlee.eklavya wrote:Chetak, IAF is not a design and development organisation. IAF does not aspire to control ADA for the sake of control.
Navy LCA and IAF LCA will either both work or both fail; in fact, being heavier, the Navy LCA faces a greater technological challenge. PAF F-16 Blk 52 will not make allowances for which version they are up against.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
dhiraj saab, please do not use not standard abbreviations like prg and prd. Would it really trouble you so much just to type a few letters more??.dhiraj wrote:one thing is for sure , LCA prg. failure(though it will not) will be a bigger setback to the overall planning of IAF than IN.
Tejas urgency for IAF is same as Scorpene (though imported, TOT prd. ) urgency for IN and not NLCA.
Most of the IN Mig 29 K are still at INS Hansa
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Toy? Blameless? Defending the country is not a child's game. If LCA fails, country's defence wil be compromised and if a war happens, many people, some of them IAF and IN pilots, will die. You are quite mistaken if you think IAF is engaging in some corporate style or political blame game. No one needs the LCA to work more than the IAF. But the IAF does not have the magic wand to solve the LCAs problems; it's downright ridiculous that this forum has got into a mindset where making grotesque attacks on the Indian armed forces is an accepted pastime.vina wrote:Perfect. Navy is willing to put it's money where it's mouth is, willing to share both the glory and the blame.Navy LCA and IAF LCA will either both work or both fail;
So, if IAF version of LCA fails, the Air Force will hang it on the ADA and walk away from it all "blameless" and look for a new toy.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Sure Sir, will take care in future.chetak wrote:please do not use not standard abbreviations like prg and prd. Would it really trouble you so much just to type a few letters more??.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
THE LCA WILL NOT FAIL. Some delay, yes, failure, NO!!eklavya wrote:Toy? Blameless? Defending the country is not a child's game. If LCA fails, country's defence wil be compromised and if a war happens, many people, some of them IAF and IN pilots, will die. You are quite mistaken if you think IAF is engaging in some corporate style or political blame game. No one needs the LCA to work more than the IAF. But the IAF does not have the magic wand to solve the LCAs problems; it's downright ridiculous that this forum has got into a mindset where making grotesque attacks on the Indian armed forces is an accepted pastime.vina wrote:{quote}Navy LCA and IAF LCA will either both work or both fail;{/quote}
Perfect. Navy is willing to put it's money where it's mouth is, willing to share both the glory and the blame.
So, if IAF version of LCA fails, the Air Force will hang it on the ADA and walk away from it all "blameless" and look for a new toy.
It is already flying, maybe not with ideal specs, but flying nevertheless.
Folks attacking the Armed Forces is a national pass time.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
ekalavya you can have last say here.
Folks a new head of ADA has come. Wish him well that he clears the hurdles and takes LCA to FOC and squadron service.
Means no more IAF-DRDO posts.
Folks a new head of ADA has come. Wish him well that he clears the hurdles and takes LCA to FOC and squadron service.
Means no more IAF-DRDO posts.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
The IAF may not be a R&D org but it needs to understand R&D.eklavya wrote:Chetak, IAF is not a design and development organisation. IAF does not aspire to control ADA for the sake of control.
Navy LCA and IAF LCA will either both work or both fail; in fact, being heavier, the Navy LCA faces a greater technological challenge. PAF F-16 Blk 52 will not make allowances for which version they are up against.
Does the PAF's F-16 Blk 52 make allowance for MiG-21/27s? How about 200+ Su-30MKIs?
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
As forum mod has suggested, I will not venture into IAF asking for HAL head position despite not being in manufacturing/production either.
This IAF - IN fight is way more juicy instead
So Commander Mao is now the head of NTFC as well
This IAF - IN fight is way more juicy instead
So Commander Mao is now the head of NTFC as well
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Is is commander or commodore Mao?
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
^^^^
Where is the IAF-IN fight? Are you hoping for one?
His rank is Commodore, why have you demoted him by 2 ranks? Looking for a fight?
Where is the IAF-IN fight? Are you hoping for one?
His rank is Commodore, why have you demoted him by 2 ranks? Looking for a fight?
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
How do you measure "understand R&D"? Or should we start another pointless argument?srai wrote:The IAF may not be a R&D org but it needs to understand R&D.eklavya wrote:Chetak, IAF is not a design and development organisation. IAF does not aspire to control ADA for the sake of control.
Navy LCA and IAF LCA will either both work or both fail; in fact, being heavier, the Navy LCA faces a greater technological challenge. PAF F-16 Blk 52 will not make allowances for which version they are up against.
Does the PAF's F-16 Blk 52 make allowance for MiG-21/27s? How about 200+ Su-30MKIs?
Mig 21 should have been phased out 20 years ago; it's not the benchmark for the LCA, it's a very poor argument to make for the induction of any aircraft that it's better than something that first joined the IAF in 1963.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
It is Commodore Jaideep Maolankar now with proper honorific. However, BRF came to know about him as Commander Mao from Karthik's post eon's ago and cheerleading for him since then.
Wish the similar could have been said about AVM Matheswaran though as prospective HAL head candidate from IAF.
Wish the similar could have been said about AVM Matheswaran though as prospective HAL head candidate from IAF.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
^^^^
Another cheap shot at the IAF. Hope it was satisfying
Another cheap shot at the IAF. Hope it was satisfying
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Truth hurts right Eklavya (
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
^^^^
So many wise creatures posting today
So many wise creatures posting today
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
First F-414 engine to arrive in September.
The plan to develop a more powerful, modernised version of the current Tejas fighter is getting a welcome boost. In September, US engine-maker General Electric (GE) plans to deliver the first F-414INS6 engine (hereafter F-414), which will power the Tejas Mark II.
The F-414 engine's maximum power output of 98 kiloNewtons (kN) will make the Tejas Mark II faster and nimbler than the current Mark I fighter, which gets just 84 kN of peak power from its GE F-404IN engine. The F-414 will also provide the burst of power needed for the Naval Tejas to take off from an aircraft carrier deck on 200 metres of runway.
In 2010, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which manages the Tejas programme, chose GE over Eurojet to supply 99 engines for the Tejas Mark II. Of these, 16 are being delivered fully-built, so that ADA can build prototypes of the Mark II fighter for ground and flight test programmes.
Meanwhile, Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) will establish a facility to manufacture the remaining 83 engines in Bengaluru. With the Indian Air Force (IAF) and navy likely to order at least 160 Tejas Mark II fighters, the HAL facility could eventually build about 700 engines (assuming a fighter uses 3.5 engines in its service life).
For now, ADA is welcoming the arrival of the first F-414 engines. This will allow it to start building the first Mark II prototype, which it plans to fly within three years, that is, by 2018-19. ADA says it will hand over the first production fighter to the IAF within six years, that is, by 2021-22. HAL Bengaluru is building the first 20 Tejas Mark I fighters, which were contracted in 2007. In 2010, the IAF committed itself to another 20 Mark I fighters, which will be contracted when the Tejas gets final operational clearance, probably by March 2016. These 40 fighters will use the F-404 engine.
Not everyone believes the Tejas Mark II, powered by the F-414, is a good idea.
Aerospace experts like Pushpinder Singh of Vayu Magazine say the benefits of the more powerful F-414 would be negated by its additional weight and the re-design of the Tejas that they say will be needed to accommodate the engine.
Experts also argue the Tejas' constricted air intake will prevent the F-414 from sucking in the air it requires, even with extensive redesign. In that case, the engine would not deliver its rated 98 kN thrust.
Rejecting this view, GE and ADA officials say they will accommodate the F-414 without problem or extensive redesign, and that it will perform to its designed potential.
Their claim is supported by the engine data on the GE website (see graphic), which indicates the F-414 is no larger than the F-404. Nor is it significantly heavier, says ADA.
While GE has bagged the deal to supply India the F-414, an even bigger prize could prove elusive - the supply of a more powerful version of the F-414 for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), a fifth-generation medium fighter that ADA plans to develop, with the IAF standing ready to buy 200.
As Business Standard reported (June 1, "Carter to face Indian demand for engine technology") the defence ministry has asked the United States to let the Defence Research and Development Organisation work with GE in jointly upgrading the F-414 to a rating of 110 KN of peak power. ADA believes the AMCA needs 220 kN of peak power from its twin engines.
This is welcomed by GE, which had earlier worked for the US Navy on upgrading the F-414 to a 116 kN engine designated F-414 enhanced engine.
With that project now shelved, GE would like to see it revived with Indian partnership, funding and a large assured market.
Yet, Washington is stonewalling the Indian request, even though the two countries had established a "joint working group" to explore cooperation in engine design during President Obama's visit to India in January.
A disappointed Indian defence ministry is now issuing a global tender, inviting aero engine firms to co-develop a suitable engine with the DRDO.
Senior defence ministry sources say that Eurojet, the European consortium whose EJ200 engine lost out to GE's F-414 in the contest to power the Tejas Mark II, has satisfied the DRDO it can uprate the EJ200 to 110 kN.
Snecma, the French company that builds the Rafale's M-88 engine, will also be issued a tender. However the M-88, which currently generates 75 kN of thrust, cannot be uprated beyond 105 kN.
"Fighters are designed around a pre-selected engine. We will issue the tender quickly and select an engine for the AMCA so that the programme does not get delayed. If Washington chooses to deny India engine technology by preventing GE from working with the DRDO, that will have its own implications," a top defence ministry official says.
The plan to develop a more powerful, modernised version of the current Tejas fighter is getting a welcome boost. In September, US engine-maker General Electric (GE) plans to deliver the first F-414INS6 engine (hereafter F-414), which will power the Tejas Mark II.
The F-414 engine's maximum power output of 98 kiloNewtons (kN) will make the Tejas Mark II faster and nimbler than the current Mark I fighter, which gets just 84 kN of peak power from its GE F-404IN engine. The F-414 will also provide the burst of power needed for the Naval Tejas to take off from an aircraft carrier deck on 200 metres of runway.
In 2010, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which manages the Tejas programme, chose GE over Eurojet to supply 99 engines for the Tejas Mark II. Of these, 16 are being delivered fully-built, so that ADA can build prototypes of the Mark II fighter for ground and flight test programmes.
Meanwhile, Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) will establish a facility to manufacture the remaining 83 engines in Bengaluru. With the Indian Air Force (IAF) and navy likely to order at least 160 Tejas Mark II fighters, the HAL facility could eventually build about 700 engines (assuming a fighter uses 3.5 engines in its service life).
For now, ADA is welcoming the arrival of the first F-414 engines. This will allow it to start building the first Mark II prototype, which it plans to fly within three years, that is, by 2018-19. ADA says it will hand over the first production fighter to the IAF within six years, that is, by 2021-22. HAL Bengaluru is building the first 20 Tejas Mark I fighters, which were contracted in 2007. In 2010, the IAF committed itself to another 20 Mark I fighters, which will be contracted when the Tejas gets final operational clearance, probably by March 2016. These 40 fighters will use the F-404 engine.
Not everyone believes the Tejas Mark II, powered by the F-414, is a good idea.
Aerospace experts like Pushpinder Singh of Vayu Magazine say the benefits of the more powerful F-414 would be negated by its additional weight and the re-design of the Tejas that they say will be needed to accommodate the engine.
Experts also argue the Tejas' constricted air intake will prevent the F-414 from sucking in the air it requires, even with extensive redesign. In that case, the engine would not deliver its rated 98 kN thrust.
Rejecting this view, GE and ADA officials say they will accommodate the F-414 without problem or extensive redesign, and that it will perform to its designed potential.
Their claim is supported by the engine data on the GE website (see graphic), which indicates the F-414 is no larger than the F-404. Nor is it significantly heavier, says ADA.
While GE has bagged the deal to supply India the F-414, an even bigger prize could prove elusive - the supply of a more powerful version of the F-414 for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), a fifth-generation medium fighter that ADA plans to develop, with the IAF standing ready to buy 200.
As Business Standard reported (June 1, "Carter to face Indian demand for engine technology") the defence ministry has asked the United States to let the Defence Research and Development Organisation work with GE in jointly upgrading the F-414 to a rating of 110 KN of peak power. ADA believes the AMCA needs 220 kN of peak power from its twin engines.
This is welcomed by GE, which had earlier worked for the US Navy on upgrading the F-414 to a 116 kN engine designated F-414 enhanced engine.
With that project now shelved, GE would like to see it revived with Indian partnership, funding and a large assured market.
Yet, Washington is stonewalling the Indian request, even though the two countries had established a "joint working group" to explore cooperation in engine design during President Obama's visit to India in January.
A disappointed Indian defence ministry is now issuing a global tender, inviting aero engine firms to co-develop a suitable engine with the DRDO.
Senior defence ministry sources say that Eurojet, the European consortium whose EJ200 engine lost out to GE's F-414 in the contest to power the Tejas Mark II, has satisfied the DRDO it can uprate the EJ200 to 110 kN.
Snecma, the French company that builds the Rafale's M-88 engine, will also be issued a tender. However the M-88, which currently generates 75 kN of thrust, cannot be uprated beyond 105 kN.
"Fighters are designed around a pre-selected engine. We will issue the tender quickly and select an engine for the AMCA so that the programme does not get delayed. If Washington chooses to deny India engine technology by preventing GE from working with the DRDO, that will have its own implications," a top defence ministry official says.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
First Tejas Mark II engine to arrive in September
The plan to develop a more powerful, modernised version of the current Tejas fighter is getting a welcome boost. In September, US engine-maker General Electric (GE) plans to deliver the first F-414INS6 engine (hereafter F-414), which will power the Tejas Mark II.
The F-414 engine's maximum power output of 98 kiloNewtons (kN) will make the Tejas Mark II faster and nimbler than the current Mark I fighter, which gets just 84 kN of peak power from its GE F-404IN engine. The F-414 will also provide the burst of power needed for the Naval Tejas to take off from an aircraft carrier deck on 200 metres of runway.
In 2010, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which manages the Tejas programme, chose GE over Eurojet to supply 99 engines for the Tejas Mark II. Of these, 16 are being delivered fully-built, so that ADA can build prototypes of the Mark II fighter for ground and flight test programmes.
Meanwhile, Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) will establish a facility to manufacture the remaining 83 engines in Bengaluru. With the Indian Air Force (IAF) and navy likely to order at least 160 Tejas Mark II fighters, the HAL facility could eventually build about 700 engines (assuming a fighter uses 3.5 engines in its service life).
For now, ADA is welcoming the arrival of the first F-414 engines. This will allow it to start building the first Mark II prototype, which it plans to fly within three years, that is, by 2018-19. ADA says it will hand over the first production fighter to the IAF within six years, that is, by 2021-22. HAL Bengaluru is building the first 20 Tejas Mark I fighters, which were contracted in 2007. In 2010, the IAF committed itself to another 20 Mark I fighters, which will be contracted when the Tejas gets final operational clearance, probably by March 2016. These 40 fighters will use the F-404 engine.
Not everyone believes the Tejas Mark II, powered by the F-414, is a good idea.
Aerospace experts like Pushpinder Singh of Vayu Magazine say the benefits of the more powerful F-414 would be negated by its additional weight and the re-design of the Tejas that they say will be needed to accommodate the engine.
Experts also argue the Tejas' constricted air intake will prevent the F-414 from sucking in the air it requires, even with extensive redesign. In that case, the engine would not deliver its rated 98 kN thrust.
Rejecting this view, GE and ADA officials say they will accommodate the F-414 without problem or extensive redesign, and that it will perform to its designed potential.
Their claim is supported by the engine data on the GE website (see graphic), which indicates the F-414 is no larger than the F-404. Nor is it significantly heavier, says ADA.
While GE has bagged the deal to supply India the F-414, an even bigger prize could prove elusive - the supply of a more powerful version of the F-414 for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), a fifth-generation medium fighter that ADA plans to develop, with the IAF standing ready to buy 200.
As Business Standard reported (June 1, "Carter to face Indian demand for engine technology") the defence ministry has asked the United States to let the Defence Research and Development Organisation work with GE in jointly upgrading the F-414 to a rating of 110 KN of peak power. ADA believes the AMCA needs 220 kN of peak power from its twin engines.
This is welcomed by GE, which had earlier worked for the US Navy on upgrading the F-414 to a 116 kN engine designated F-414 enhanced engine.
With that project now shelved, GE would like to see it revived with Indian partnership, funding and a large assured market.
Yet, Washington is stonewalling the Indian request, even though the two countries had established a "joint working group" to explore cooperation in engine design during President Obama's visit to India in January.
A disappointed Indian defence ministry is now issuing a global tender, inviting aero engine firms to co-develop a suitable engine with the DRDO.
Senior defence ministry sources say that Eurojet, the European consortium whose EJ200 engine lost out to GE's F-414 in the contest to power the Tejas Mark II, has satisfied the DRDO it can uprate the EJ200 to 110 kN.
Snecma, the French company that builds the Rafale's M-88 engine, will also be issued a tender. However the M-88, which currently generates 75 kN of thrust, cannot be uprated beyond 105 kN.
"Fighters are designed around a pre-selected engine. We will issue the tender quickly and select an engine for the AMCA so that the programme does not get delayed. If Washington chooses to deny India engine technology by preventing GE from working with the DRDO, that will have its own implications," a top defence ministry official says
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
as I pointed some years back that EJ200 losing out to GE by a fist full of $ is bad for DRDO. We should have gone with EJ200 for Mk2.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Issuing a tender and EJ stating it can uprate their engine does not mean much. EJ could opt not to share trade secrets too - which would be very normal and should be expected.
Need to wait a few more months to see details.
Need to wait a few more months to see details.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Out of the 160 LCA MkII, how many are for the Navy ?
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
IAF wants 83 Mk2. Rest would be Navy or Navy+AF if Shukla is correct! Prior reports put NLCA Mk2 at around 50+ airframes.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
>>
Senior defence ministry sources say that Eurojet, the European consortium whose EJ200 engine lost out to GE's F-414 in the contest to power the Tejas Mark II, has satisfied the DRDO it can uprate the EJ200 to 110 kN.
Excellent news.
Senior defence ministry sources say that Eurojet, the European consortium whose EJ200 engine lost out to GE's F-414 in the contest to power the Tejas Mark II, has satisfied the DRDO it can uprate the EJ200 to 110 kN.
Excellent news.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
That is close to twice that for NLCA-Mk1...good news ! Vishal++ or do I see a second Vikrant in there.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
OT: Vishal is the second Vikrant Class.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Sorry to go OT. I just saw this. You've got it the other way around.chetak wrote:
If it is a clean pass, through only flesh, at a high energy level, the entry and exit wounds may even be the same size.
Low velocity (low kinetic energy) wounds through soft tissues can cause an exit would that is the same size (almost) as the entry wound
High kinetic energy (High velocity - >600 m/sec/rifle/shrapnel) wounds cause instant cavitation and the bullet exits before the cavity collapses taking with it a high speed spray of pulverised flesh that tears open the exit track. Each body cell that receives bullet energy becomes a nano-bullet that moves in the general direction of the bullet ripping and tearing tissues as it moves. This is followed by a collapse of the cavity that blows out more atomized blood and body tissues via the exit wound leaving a huge exit wound and massive internal damage.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Truly insipid leadership by all concerned here. First we have the ADA running after US maal after repeated rebucfs by the latter. Then we have an MOD that resolutely delays any action and pinches every possible penny n so as to stifle surplus stocks or any homegrown effort. A GOI with politicians that seem to have treasonous motives and finally an AF that insits on ridiculous performance.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Stand corrected, saar. Thank you.shiv wrote:Sorry to go OT. I just saw this. You've got it the other way around.chetak wrote:
If it is a clean pass, through only flesh, at a high energy level, the entry and exit wounds may even be the same size.
Low velocity (low kinetic energy) wounds through soft tissues can cause an exit would that is the same size (almost) as the entry wound
High kinetic energy (High velocity - >600 m/sec/rifle/shrapnel) wounds cause instant cavitation and the bullet exits before the cavity collapses taking with it a high speed spray of pulverised flesh that tears open the exit track. Each body cell that receives bullet energy becomes a nano-bullet that moves in the general direction of the bullet ripping and tearing tissues as it moves. This is followed by a collapse of the cavity that blows out more atomized blood and body tissues via the exit wound leaving a huge exit wound and massive internal damage.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
the GE414-EDE++ would have been easiest to integrate (prior exp) and logical follow on option. one cannot blame ADA for whichever deep state network in the GOTUS blocks GE from doing this.Cain Marko wrote:Truly insipid leadership by all concerned here. First we have the ADA running after US maal after repeated rebucfs by the latter. Then we have an MOD that resolutely delays any action and pinches every possible penny n so as to stifle surplus stocks or any homegrown effort. A GOI with politicians that seem to have treasonous motives and finally an AF that insits on ridiculous performance.
now we have to start from scratch on a whole new vendor relationship and parts chain.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
For a program with strategic implications, one expects leaders with more foresight, especially after being traumatized on earlier occasions.Singha wrote:the GE414-EDE++ would have been easiest to integrate (prior exp) and logical follow on option. one cannot blame ADA for whichever deep state network in the GOTUS blocks GE from doing this. now we have to start from scratch on a whole new vendor relationship and parts chain.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
^^
the 414 family is a mid 90s level of tech for GE. even in early 90s they had developed 5th gen on the raptor F120.
I suspect the roadblock is because we are just not asking for sale of product but technology sharing.
there is no guarantee that EJ will agree to share the same, though they surely can meet the thrust spec
if EJ is also not sharing tech, we have no options left assuming we do not want to go the AL41 route!
in that case might be better to just buy the 414-EDE and work on a new engine domestically with no foreign help, cloning and copying whatever we can
the 414 family is a mid 90s level of tech for GE. even in early 90s they had developed 5th gen on the raptor F120.
I suspect the roadblock is because we are just not asking for sale of product but technology sharing.
there is no guarantee that EJ will agree to share the same, though they surely can meet the thrust spec
if EJ is also not sharing tech, we have no options left assuming we do not want to go the AL41 route!
in that case might be better to just buy the 414-EDE and work on a new engine domestically with no foreign help, cloning and copying whatever we can
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
Sure.. but they have never said they will not share nor they will openly.NRao wrote:Issuing a tender and EJ stating it can uprate their engine does not mean much. EJ could opt not to share trade secrets too - which would be very normal and should be expected.
Need to wait a few more months to see details.
so are the massans. so, given a toss, either direction of getting screwed by engine walas is high.. however, I'd weigh Eu to be less punitive during war times than the khaans.
they have repeatedly shown this., btw, even during pok-2 the sanctions never affected us as the dependencies were low.
now comes the larger deals and dependencies.. we got to be careful.
ideally, kaveri should have been redesigned for 110kN
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
The IN got raped by these b@stards as the seaking gearboxes were badly affected by the sanctions.SaiK wrote:Sure.. but they have never said they will not share nor they will openly.NRao wrote:Issuing a tender and EJ stating it can uprate their engine does not mean much. EJ could opt not to share trade secrets too - which would be very normal and should be expected.
Need to wait a few more months to see details.
so are the massans. so, given a toss, either direction of getting screwed by engine walas is high.. however, I'd weigh Eu to be less punitive during war times than the khaans.
they have repeatedly shown this., btw, even during pok-2 the sanctions never affected us as the dependencies were low.
now comes the larger deals and dependencies.. we got to be careful.
ideally, kaveri should have been redesigned for 110kN
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
CAG report only touches on some of the aspects and completely bypasses many other items. Here is OFFICIAL confirmation of the degree of change over the past decade (TD to PV) from the horses' mouth confirming what I had said, while some of these were driven by test observations, usual fixing, many were late changes because the TD systems were revised completely once IAF came on board in 2006!!
http://sajeevpearlj.blogspot.in/2015/07 ... h-p-s.html
Your tenure will probably go down in the history of Indian military aviation as the most challenging one. Isn't it an irony that you had to leave the project just months ahead of its Final Operational Clearance (FOC)?
A: The Mk-1 configuration aircraft started coming after I took over in 2005. The challenge started with PV-2, which is the present Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) configuration aircraft. In the last 10 years there were major transformation in the aircraft and systems. I would say 80 per cent changes took place in the last 10 years in terms of design and systems. Now, FOC is on track and I am happy that it will be achieved in the next six to nine months. Remember that projects are bigger than people. There are capable hands to take the programme forward. I am not running away and will be always available to offer any help.
Q: So what are the major changes to Tejas in the last 10 years?
A: Well, there are many. There were changes to the front fuselage, cockpit layout, radome, windshield and canopy. Almost 80 per cent avionics changed and even the wings underwent modifications due to R-73 missile. The rear fuselage too had to be changed to accommodate GE404-IN20 engine. Even the MMR (Multi-Mode Radar) underwent changes after the indigenous effort to make one did not succeed. So we had to go for Israeli Elta Radar. Even the fuel system got changes for better CG (Centre of Gravity) management. New Communication systems too came in. Fourteen aircraft were built during my regime and around 2500 flights achieved in 10 years. Tejas story will inspire generations to come.
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Even the above doesn't take into account the number of change requests flagged by the IAF team! So many that some will be incorporated only in Mk2 after HAL put its foot down and refused to keep accomodating them. These include some of the maintainability requests and hence why Mk-2 has that in its official request. Even so Mk1 is ahead of all the MiGs we have been operating and a LRU design aircraft which simplifies maintenance.
http://sajeevpearlj.blogspot.in/2015/07 ... h-p-s.html
Your tenure will probably go down in the history of Indian military aviation as the most challenging one. Isn't it an irony that you had to leave the project just months ahead of its Final Operational Clearance (FOC)?
A: The Mk-1 configuration aircraft started coming after I took over in 2005. The challenge started with PV-2, which is the present Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) configuration aircraft. In the last 10 years there were major transformation in the aircraft and systems. I would say 80 per cent changes took place in the last 10 years in terms of design and systems. Now, FOC is on track and I am happy that it will be achieved in the next six to nine months. Remember that projects are bigger than people. There are capable hands to take the programme forward. I am not running away and will be always available to offer any help.
Q: So what are the major changes to Tejas in the last 10 years?
A: Well, there are many. There were changes to the front fuselage, cockpit layout, radome, windshield and canopy. Almost 80 per cent avionics changed and even the wings underwent modifications due to R-73 missile. The rear fuselage too had to be changed to accommodate GE404-IN20 engine. Even the MMR (Multi-Mode Radar) underwent changes after the indigenous effort to make one did not succeed. So we had to go for Israeli Elta Radar. Even the fuel system got changes for better CG (Centre of Gravity) management. New Communication systems too came in. Fourteen aircraft were built during my regime and around 2500 flights achieved in 10 years. Tejas story will inspire generations to come.
--------
Even the above doesn't take into account the number of change requests flagged by the IAF team! So many that some will be incorporated only in Mk2 after HAL put its foot down and refused to keep accomodating them. These include some of the maintainability requests and hence why Mk-2 has that in its official request. Even so Mk1 is ahead of all the MiGs we have been operating and a LRU design aircraft which simplifies maintenance.
Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions
^^ Karan, what you posted only corroborates that LCA TDs were science lab projects, and the process to make it a viable fighter started in the 2001-5 timeframe.
TD's did not have any radar. Initially it was provisioned for MMR, thereafter Elta 2032
TD's did not have any production standard engine. It flew with GE F-404F2J3, was was provisioned for Kaveri, finally required GE F-404IN20
TD's did not have any LDP.
TD's did not have any HMDS.
TD's did not have any MFD.
TD's did not have any RWR.
TD's did not have any CMDS.
TD's did not have instrumentation like VOR, DME & ILS
TD's did not have any stores capability, so to develop Mk1, stores separation trails were required.
TD's did not have any missiles.
TD's did not have any guns.
So which specific TD systems were revised completely are you referring to?
IAF goalposts did not change, except for weapons. CAG is clear on that.
The work referred to by PS is the work that went in to make a combat capable aircraft from TD to Mk1.
Or are you saying that IAF should've inducted LCA TDs in squadron service, that did not have radar or a production engine and was completely unfit for combat service?
Confirms that process from TD to Mk1 started in 2005The Mk-1 configuration aircraft started coming after I took over in 2005. The challenge started with PV-2, which is the present Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) configuration aircraft.
There was no Kaveri, and TDs flew with F-404F2J3 that was a temporary engine for the TDs.The rear fuselage too had to be changed to accommodate GE404-IN20 engine.
Here is the program head saying we went for an Israeli radar.Even the MMR (Multi-Mode Radar) underwent changes after the indigenous effort to make one did not succeed. So we had to go for Israeli Elta Radar.
Correction. TD's did not have any combat capable systems.Karan M wrote:many were late changes because the TD systems were revised completely once IAF came on board in 2006!!
TD's did not have any radar. Initially it was provisioned for MMR, thereafter Elta 2032
TD's did not have any production standard engine. It flew with GE F-404F2J3, was was provisioned for Kaveri, finally required GE F-404IN20
TD's did not have any LDP.
TD's did not have any HMDS.
TD's did not have any MFD.
TD's did not have any RWR.
TD's did not have any CMDS.
TD's did not have instrumentation like VOR, DME & ILS
TD's did not have any stores capability, so to develop Mk1, stores separation trails were required.
TD's did not have any missiles.
TD's did not have any guns.
So which specific TD systems were revised completely are you referring to?
IAF goalposts did not change, except for weapons. CAG is clear on that.
The work referred to by PS is the work that went in to make a combat capable aircraft from TD to Mk1.
Or are you saying that IAF should've inducted LCA TDs in squadron service, that did not have radar or a production engine and was completely unfit for combat service?