I added numbers to your points and will reply to them as they merit it.Cosmo_R wrote:Ramana, agreed about not cutting corners. 1.0 My point however, is that if we are importing nuts, bolts and screws what is the point of assembling the planes under a 'deep ToT'? What have we actually learned from the license we purchased?ramana wrote:Cosmo_R, I can see the forging being whittled from 27 kg to 3.1 kg due to machine allowances. Most of the raw stock will have surface cracks etc., and need to get to the core metal. I don't know about the tail component. It could be a product of the layout that ends up using the large bar/plate stock.
Standard nuts, bolts and screws are not enough. They are the most failure prone hardware. If you don't want planes falling from the sky I would not cut corners there.
2.0 Similarly, why are we importing titanium bars and plates and then whittling them down when instead we could just have imported the finished items as inventory? Price-wise, the unit costs would be much lower. What will learn from machining titanium parts that are SU 30 specific? Is this skill transferable to other projects down the line?
3.0 If a run of 300+ SU-30s is too small to support a supply chain in India as the article implies, we'll never have the ecosystem we seek. Even 300 LCAs won't support its ecosystem. We'll be starting from ground zero unlike Irkutsk's larger base.
As to the FGFA killing the AMCA, I mean it in financial terms. 4.0There's no way we can fund Rafales, the SU 30 upgrade, 300 LCAs, AMCA, FGFA—not to mention the gap filler 'single-engined' fighter. That's just the fighters. We also have tankers, trainers and transport aircraft to induct. In the end, the IAF will be told to choose and it will choose what will come first given its budget. Perhaps that's why it was making such a noise about the FGFA vs. Rafale
1.0) Aerospace grade fasteners are very specialty item. Even in US only one or two fastener makers are there. Titanium alloy fasteners and its compatriot high strength(>160ksi) alloy steel for grounding are not run of the mill Sundaram Fasteners make. So due to the limited run imports have to happen.
2.0) Importing titanium bars and plates is raw stock. Nowadays mfg. cost is equal to that of raw materials. So by whittling them down from bar stock, India is adding value to the metal and cutting costs. Machining Ti is a transferable skill. Its the basis for aerospace structures.
3.0) Yes 300 planes run is very small and both IAF and MoD have to understand cannot sustain an industrial base. IAF needs to cut down on multiple types in penny packets and go for large numbers to achieve a viable supply chain. Also think of supplying the planes to neighboring countries and allies : Asia, Africa, South America. Run has to be a minimum 1000-1200 planes. And NaMo is trying to achieve second aircraft mfg supplier to create a viable aerospace supply chain infrastructure.
4.) Chanakya fifth axiom is if you want peace prepare for war. So its expensive. If India doesn't do all that then the nuke threshold gets lowered. We don't want that.
