India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 19 Sep 2016 22:31

I am pretty sure that sooner or later India will retaliate for these attacks conducted by Pakistan. But India should not just stop at retaliation only and should also initiate the final war(Aar par ki ladai) with Pakistan at the earliest possible date and time. Pakistan should not be allowed to exist. NFU for nuclear weapons need to be discarded. The dissolution of Pakistan should be our state policy. The more we delay on this issue the more difficult it would become to finish Pakistan. Because warfare is also being democratized at a furious pace. The advantage India's size and resources bring today wouldn't be there 10 years later.

Too long we have dithered on account of various reasons such as Pakistan having nukes, Indian Military not prepared enough, acceptability on world forums etc.

But then Nuclear weapons are nothing but very big bombs. Should we be really afraid of them? There are battles which extracted far more fatalities than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. For eg. Battle of Stalingrad, Siege of leningrad etc. Countries like Russia didn't buckle at the thought of fatalities. Furthermore the primary material of residence construction in Nagasaki and Hiroshima was wood which in turn contributed to increased fatality levels. In India however concrete is much more common which in all likelihood do far better job of containing the Nuclear explosion than wood ever will.

As far as military preparedness being the issue, was Soviet Union prepared at the onset of Operation Barabarossa? Was US prepared at onset of WW2. You fight with the military you have and not with one you desire.

As far as international acceptability is concerned, they can thank us later once we take care of the Pakistan problem.

As I said sooner we destroy Pakistan the better it would be for us.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 19 Sep 2016 23:09

Darshan that's a good write-up.
Pakistan gets away with this crap because decade after decade someone comes along to sponsor, patronise it, or in the case of the PRC, proliferate weapons of mass destruction to target India.
The appropriate response to the Uri outrage is to resume A5 and K-4 testing.
Retaliation should be in response for Mumbai 26/11 as further evidence has been revealed in the past 2 years

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 19 Sep 2016 23:10

Biggest retaliation is expanding our influence in countries surrounding them and slowly snuff them out of existence.

Do some quick response but keep the end goal in mind.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 19 Sep 2016 23:31

thanks deejay. looks like GOI was all bak-bak.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 20 Sep 2016 00:06

Bhaiyon, time to take a chill pill.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/will-res ... ck-1461445

Have capability to respond to blatant acts of aggression: Army
Reserve right to act at time and place of our own choosing: Army

The Army today said it reserves the right to respond to any cross-border terror attack "at the time and place of our own choosing", a day after the Uri strike that was blamed on a Pakistan-based terror outfit Jaish-e-Mohammed sparking calls for exercising military options.

The Army also said it has the desired capability to respond to any blatant acts of aggression and violence as deemed appropriate.

...

"The Indian Army has displayed considerable restraint while handling the terrorist situation both along the Line of Control and in hinterland. However, we have the desired capability to respond to such blatant acts of aggression and violence as deemed appropriate by us," Lt Gen Singh said in a statement to the media.

"We reserve the right to respond to any act of the adversary at the time and place of our own choosing," he added.

Lt Gen Singh's remark was identical to the statement given by then Army chief Gen Bikram Singh in 2013 after the January 8 violation of the Line of Control (LoC) in which one soldier was beheaded and the other had his throat slit.

"We'll give them a fitting reply...we will respond at a time and place of our choosing," he had said.

Following the Pathankot attack earlier this year, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had also said the same . However, top Army sources told Press Trust of India that action will be taken but nature and timing of it will not be revealed at the moment.

"There should be an element of surprise which is not there at the moment as Pakistan will be prepared for a retaliation. The Indian Army of course has its strategy in place and will do its job," the sources said

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 20 Sep 2016 01:08

x-post

America, Russia, Israel et al hit their opponents whenever they deem it fit. They have established the norm as far as their own responses go. Only in a large scale war - like invading Afghanistan or Iraq needed a coalition of a few other important partners. Otherwise they acted solely.

If the above is the norm called - 'N', then India is no where near that. In order for India to operate like them, it has to get its people, other political parties, elites, businesses etc ready. Next it has to get some basic level of diplomatic immunity from the other big countries when it decides to hit.

The previous governments have not done either step. The people of India are ready, but the other political parties, elites and businesses are not ready. So 3 out of 4 steps have to be done now. Next the diplomatic immunity has to be earned or purchased. IMO, India has been purchasing that via the trade deals it has been striking with myriad countries.

Unless Pakistan starts the war using the official 'means', India government has to do the above steps. Once the norm 'N' has been reached, in future India would be able to take action against Pakistan just like America, Russia, Israel et al.

Ironically, Pakistan is the country helping India reach that norm; while the 3.5 powers do not want India to reach that norm. Once that norm is reached India becomes an equal equal onlee.

Amoghvarsha · Post by **Amoghvarsha** » 20 Sep 2016 01:16

No wonder that the Bakis are making fun of us.We are such soft nation.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Sep 2016 01:17

you are right.

problem is, indians will never be ready unless they start hitting.

many indians as a people have become amoral, weak creatures who are used to having others die for them at the border. its one thing to think about escalation and weakness of indian security. but my loathing is reserved for those indians who just go about pretending whats happening is of no consequence or that we can turn the other cheek.

the same indians who loudly proclaim how peace is essential, liberalism is heart and soul, BJP is communal, to attack TSP is to be bigoted will be sh!ts with hired help, anyone lower down on the pecking order, will do crooked deals for more moolah etc. its the way they think.

didn't aiyar say "people join the army to die". many libtards from JNU were posting weepy weepy soliloquies about burhan wani.

our soul as a nation has been corrupted in many ways & until & unless we stand up for our troops, we will just become more and more a crooked nation of the very stereotypes the TSP'ians make us out to be.

Amoghvarsha · Post by **Amoghvarsha** » 20 Sep 2016 01:37

Karan M wrote:you are right.

problem is, indians will never be ready unless they start hitting.

many indians as a people have become amoral, weak creatures who are used to having others die for them at the border. its one thing to think about escalation and weakness of indian security. but my loathing is reserved for those indians who just go about pretending whats happening is of no consequence or that we can turn the other cheek.

the same indians who loudly proclaim how peace is essential, liberalism is heart and soul, BJP is communal, to attack TSP is to be bigoted will be sh!ts with hired help, anyone lower down on the pecking order, will do crooked deals for more moolah etc. its the way they think.

didn't aiyar say "people join the army to die". many libtards from JNU were posting weepy weepy soliloquies about burhan wani.

our soul as a nation has been corrupted in many ways & until & unless we stand up for our troops, we will just become more and more a crooked nation of the very stereotypes the TSP'ians make us out to be.

We have so much fear of losing our precious FDI,economy,growth,development that we cannot respond.We deter ourselves rather than Pakistan deterring us.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 Sep 2016 01:55

We should demilitarize LoC.

The time has come for a new way forward.

We should try to strengthen people to people contacts and strengthen their civil society.

This is really the only way to strengthen our hand.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Sep 2016 01:58

Karan M wrote:you are right.

problem is, indians will never be ready unless they start hitting.

many indians as a people have become amoral, weak creatures who are used to having others die for them at the border. its one thing to think about escalation and weakness of indian security. but my loathing is reserved for those indians who just go about pretending whats happening is of no consequence or that we can turn the other cheek.

the same indians who loudly proclaim how peace is essential, liberalism is heart and soul, BJP is communal, to attack TSP is to be bigoted will be sh!ts with hired help, anyone lower down on the pecking order, will do crooked deals for more moolah etc. its the way they think.

didn't aiyar say "people join the army to die". many libtards from JNU were posting weepy weepy soliloquies about burhan wani.

our soul as a nation has been corrupted in many ways & until & unless we stand up for our troops, we will just become more and more a crooked nation of the very stereotypes the TSP'ians make us out to be.

very well said karan.

I cant help but link to a very famous poem by Rabindranath Thakur https://jyotirjagat.wordpress.com/tag/o ... -je-shohe/

and quote a couple of lines from it that I feel is extremely relevant to our collective psyche as a nation today. (apologies for the poor translation)

ক্ষমা যেথা ক্ষীণ দুর্বলতা,
হে রুদ্র, নিষ্ঠুর যেন হতে পারি তথা
তোমার আদেশে।

where mercy is a pale weakness,
O Rudra, may I be supremely cruel there
per your wish.

অন্যায় যে করে আর অন্যায় যে সহে
তব ঘৃণা যেন তারে তৃণসম দহে।

Those who do evil and those who submit to it
may your hate scorch them like the lowest twig

how we react to the fact of 20 of our brothers being killed mercilessly would decide whether we still deserve to be called a civilization or if we have submitted all humanity at the altar of a better car or a bigger house.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 20 Sep 2016 02:02

Wonderful to remind me of that:
'It is better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven'

Amoghvarsha · Post by **Amoghvarsha** » 20 Sep 2016 02:07

We will buy rafales.We will also set up a 200 fighter jet assembly line under MII.We will also have 200 FGFAs.But Bakis will cross over kill people and we will be silent.Bakis know we wont do anything even if we have the power to bring down a shower of asteroids on Bakiland.

Paarth · Post by **Paarth** » 20 Sep 2016 02:24

RoyG wrote:We should demilitarize LoC.

The time has come for a new way forward.

We should try to strengthen people to people contacts and strengthen their civil society.

This is really the only way to strengthen our hand.

why not leave USA and join civil society in porkistan and ask your wife to offer them some bungali rosogullas after HRC is defeated?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 20 Sep 2016 02:43

Sau Sunar Ki Aik Lohar Ki.let lohar decide when to Use Loha on Chuha.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 20 Sep 2016 02:51

Can PM or someone address the nation atleast, instead of few words in twitter? Pretty sure top brass in the govt. would know the public sentiment. BTW what was the meeting all about? Hope it's not just chai pe charcha.

Amoghvarsha · Post by **Amoghvarsha** » 20 Sep 2016 02:52

Karthik S wrote:Can PM or someone address the nation atleast, instead of few words in twitter? Pretty sure top brass in the govt. would know the public sentiment. BTW what was the meeting all about? Hope it's not just chai pe charcha.

Our PM and our polity isnt like other nations where even a small incidence of terror means a address to the nation. I believe even for that dumpster bombing Obama is going to address US.

I had high hopes of Modi.Seems futile.

Amoghvarsha · Post by **Amoghvarsha** » 20 Sep 2016 02:53

Prem wrote:Sau Sunar Ki Aik Lohar Ki.let lohar decide when to Use Loha on Chuha.

Lets hope that by the time LOhar has decided he has died due to the bubonic plague infection spread by the chooha.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 20 Sep 2016 03:05

Karthik S wrote:Can PM or someone address the nation atleast, instead of few words in twitter? Pretty sure top brass in the govt. would know the public sentiment. BTW what was the meeting all about? Hope it's not just chai pe charcha.

No. This is no different than when after 26/11, one girl who was watching MMS' reaction said "Daddy why aren't his lips moving?"

Huge failure by NaMo and Doval. They are not that different from the UPA. And they seemed not have learned. Inaction is hugely provocative and all he's done is invite more attacks for some 'strategic reason'.

It's already too late. Sigh! Blind men (sans cojones of hindoostan).

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 20 Sep 2016 03:39

Amoghvarsha wrote:I had high hopes of Modi.Seems futile.

It is possible that you compare India with America. India is not America. America is not India. What Obama can do, India cannot do. Obama can increase the drone strikes, India political will did not exist until the shit hit the fan. A calibrated response is necessary. It is not like Porkis hit the camp on early Sunday, and people want India to hit before noon.

Before giving up hope, let us wait to see where all this brisk political activity is heading towards.

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 20 Sep 2016 04:46

Gurus, I am sure that army will respond now if that would be blessed by government or not will have to be seen, when last year when our jawans bodies were mutilated border went up in flamer and L40 guns were used in direct fire role to obliterate multiple posts and the border is quite ever seen (read working boundary as porkis used to say for some time). I believe intention is to discuss possible retaliation option for this thread lets move on whether govt will retaliate or not to exactly , realistically in the indian context can a response be given so that porkis see 72 in daylight and forget about dreams for sometime.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 Sep 2016 04:47

Paarth wrote:
RoyG wrote:We should demilitarize LoC.

The time has come for a new way forward.

We should try to strengthen people to people contacts and strengthen their civil society.

This is really the only way to strengthen our hand.
why not leave USA and join civil society in porkistan and ask your wife to offer them some bungali rosogullas after HRC is defeated?

No wife.

The Enlightenment taught us to let go of the prejudices and live in camaraderie.

We should readily accept this prescription and move into the modern era.

Paarth · Post by **Paarth** » 20 Sep 2016 04:55

RoyG wrote:
Paarth wrote:
why not leave USA and join civil society in porkistan and ask your wife to offer them some bungali rosogullas after HRC is defeated?
No wife.

The Enlightenment taught us to let go of the prejudices and live in camaraderie.

We should readily accept this prescription and move into the modern era.

must be too ugly to get one, shakal achi nai hai to baat achi kar lia kar.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 20 Sep 2016 05:46

ARE HINDUS COWARDS ?

This article is relevant to this thread based on the recent attacks on India.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 Sep 2016 06:16

Paarth wrote:
RoyG wrote:
No wife.

The Enlightenment taught us to let go of the prejudices and live in camaraderie.

We should readily accept this prescription and move into the modern era.

must be too ugly to get one, shakal achi nai hai to baat achi kar lia kar.

Disgraceful.

Cool off sir.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 Sep 2016 06:34

Unfortunately Paarth didn't pick up on the obvious sarcasm and my distaste for the aman ki asha type folks. Anyway, I'm confident that Modi is going to wait till after the UNGA meet to deliver. 3 ISI officers went down in Peshawar. I hope that was us. If that's how we open up, I'm all for it. Hitting the PA officer corp and ISI is the way to go. My only concern is that it wont be overt enough. The nation needs closure. Confidence in GoI will also be critical in how we deal w/ the proxy war being waged from across the border.

Long term strategy will entail working w/ the Afghan gov and directing Pashtuns against the Pakistan Punjab while simultaneously giving the Afghan national government ample space to breathe on their home turf. This will be the katar that will jab em in the gut and will divert further resources from the Eastern border to widen the CI footprint on the Western Border.

While this is happening I would do an Op Basstacks type of operation and make them sweat. Activate 600k troops and do airforce snap drills and then deescalate after 1-2 weeks. This will be good for elections as well. We need something to show the world that we are tightening the rope around Pakistan while shoring up popular support from home.

Nirantar · Post by **Nirantar** » 20 Sep 2016 06:52

Clearly, none of us have any idea about the intricacies of foreign policy. We are missing something big here.

We crib, rant ask for badla after each attack but none of the govt has been able to take any decisive action so far. Media, military and one or two ministers show same boring anger, aar paar ki ladai etc..and then forget everything after a few days.

Yes, from Cong to BJP to turd front, none. From Nehru to Modi, none. Is it a fear of retaliation or escalation or economy crashing or international isolation? Beyond me at present. But I am sure we dont know something very obvious.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Sep 2016 06:58

^^^ uncle.

One twitter journalist pointed this out and deleted it pronto.

Looks like US cleared an attack as warning to India for Baloch independence. Ombaba and Worma both cautioned India. And bingo strike happens. So some chota mota casualties were figured.

What was unexpected was the casualties number. This causing lots of anger in India.

NaMo Will do what he has to do.
I have faith in him.

Pathik · Post by **Pathik** » 20 Sep 2016 07:01

Guys, today's war like cricket is T20 and not test match any more. You see the ball you hit the ball, if you miss, you pay for it later, sometimes dearly. If India has to show that it will respond, it has to do it within few hours (4-5) for maximum impact. We have had enough attacks in the past to weigh our attack options. Strike first-talk later should be the approach. Even if the west imposes sanctions on us for any overt retaliations, at least it will bring us closer as a nation and we would be able to save face from our future generations. Anyways we are breaking apart politically gradually. As a country we would not wither away in the cold; we have enough capability to self sustain if we have been so proud of it along the way. The world cannot do without Indians today.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 Sep 2016 07:22

ramana wrote:^^^ uncle.

One twitter journalist pointed this out and deleted it pronto.

Looks like US cleared an attack as warning to India for Baloch independence. Ombaba and Worma both cautioned India. And bingo strike happens. So some chota mota casualties were figured.

What was unexpected was the casualties number. This causing lots of anger in India.

NaMo Will do what he has to do.
I have faith in him.

POTUS wants us to go slow on Pakistan for sure.

However, the amount of wiggle room for them is shrinking.

They will be dependent on us to stabilize Afghanistan.

Iran will not give US access.

Chabahar and BIMSTEC is the way forward.

Dump SAARC altogether. It's a sh*tshow.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 20 Sep 2016 07:42

A few signs of hope...Hope springs eternal
1. Looks like Brahmdagh Bugti will get citizenship: This means we have plans for covert/overt support and action in Balochistan.
2. PM went and met President. Does anyone know if the PM went and met the PM, during the Pathankot attack ?..I dont recall that. I hope this is preparation for overt action.
3. Russia withdrawing from military exercises. Are there other examples, eg US sending diplomatic staff home.
4. It is amazing that the usual comments are being made by HM, DGMO etc. I suspect this is an elaborate ploy to fool the enemy.
5. There is tremendous pressure on modi, he must do something, or he loses the election. His response has to be overt and covert. Politicians love to stay in power....so there will be action. Modi could not take action at the UNGA meeting, it would shift the focus frm the dastardly Pakis to India. Better to wait a few days, bury the dead and then act.

Of the multiple options that the govt has they will do the following 2 things.1. Ratchet up covert actions, this increases pain of the paki army. 2. Take out the JEM/LET leadership, this takes care of the immediate problem, withour risking a major escalation in war. Even the pakis cant object to taking out a few terrorists.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 20 Sep 2016 07:44

ramana wrote:^^^ uncle.

One twitter journalist pointed this out and deleted it pronto.

Looks like US cleared an attack as warning to India for Baloch independence. Ombaba and Worma both cautioned India. And bingo strike happens. So some chota mota casualties were figured.

What was unexpected was the casualties number. This causing lots of anger in India.

NaMo Will do what he has to do.
I have faith in him.

One of his election jumlas:

Either he didn't know what he was talking about, or he knew it, but was deliberately fooling people.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 20 Sep 2016 07:48

Or this is exactly what he will do....18 killed is a sufficient reason for a response...Infact hearing it, I feel confident that he will do something.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 20 Sep 2016 07:49

Pakis got encouraged by unkil's statements on preserving integrity of Pakistan.
But these terrorists came in 2 weeks ago.
Why to link this to unkil?

soumik · Post by **soumik** » 20 Sep 2016 07:49

My 0.02 on the road ahead post Uri.

http://bengalraider.blogspot.in/2016/09 ... h.html?m=1

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 Sep 2016 07:55

Guddu wrote:A few signs of hope...Hope springs eternal
1. Looks like Brahmdagh Bugti will get citizenship: This means we have plans for covert/overt support and action in Balochistan.
2. PM went and met President. Does anyone know if the PM went and met the PM, during the Pathankot attack ?..I dont recall that. I hope this is preparation for overt action.
3. Russia withdrawing from military exercises. Are there other examples, eg US sending diplomatic staff home.
4. It is amazing that the usual comments are being made by HM, DGMO etc. I suspect this is an elaborate ploy to fool the enemy.
5. There is tremendous pressure on modi, he must do something, or he loses the election. His response has to be overt and covert. Politicians love to stay in power....so there will be action. Modi could not take action at the UNGA meeting, it would shift the focus frm the dastardly Pakis to India. Better to wait a few days, bury the dead and then act.

Of the multiple options that the govt has they will do the following 2 things.1. Ratchet up covert actions, this increases pain of the paki army. 2. Take out the JEM/LET leadership, this takes care of the immediate problem, withour risking a major escalation in war. Even the pakis cant object to taking out a few terrorists.

Have a feeling we'll be doing a Brasstacks like exercise sometime after the UGNA while simultaneously employing covert action.

President will have to be taken into confidence.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We can do almost like a cold start light.

Throws up some interesting possibilities.

Mobilize 200-300k troops and park them really close to the border in within 2-3 days while overtly/covertly hitting select terror/intelligence targets.

Interesting to see what their response times would be.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 20 Sep 2016 07:56

Bugti will not get citizenship, political asylum onlee. Just like dalai lama, mujibur rehman.
Pakis will get 400% more heartburn when this happens.
Sindh is being prepared, MQM is shouting pakistan murdabad daily, Jiye sindh movement is saying Pakistan Na Khappey

India will not back down. Pakistan will do more strikes in desperation

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 20 Sep 2016 07:58

Guddu wrote:Or this is exactly what he will do....18 killed is a sufficient reason for a response...Infact hearing it, I feel confident that he will do something.

Was pathankot not sufficient reason for a response?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 Sep 2016 07:59

Modi should go on television and say that the nation will have to make sacrifices to ensure the long term security of the country along w/ the president.

This is the primer signal. It gives you breathing room to plan accordingly but at the same time keep the public invested.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 20 Sep 2016 08:03

+1, just having 3 tweets for last 2 days is not the way you deal with present situation.