J&K News and Discussion - 2016

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ArjunPandit
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 15 Jan 2019 16:13

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... LQLYI.html

Y
ou stated your reasons for resigning included killings in Kashmir and other things. Is there something more to it?

I think fundamentally it was about making a statement about Kashmir. I have been preparing my mind to resign for the last two years. I was waiting for the right moment which finally came after I went to Harvard. The reasons include what has been happening in Kashmir for so many years, more so in last four-five years when we witnessed an escalation in killings and a huge confrontation between the Indian state and the people of Kashmir, without any political initiative from the central government to cool down the tempers.

You talked about joining politics. What will it be all about?

I am somebody who has worked in administration for almost a decade. We operate in a political environment. I have seen how our electoral politics neither responds to the political issues around us nor does it do anything about the bloodshed. Fundamentally, I am trained in governance and would like to join electoral politics for developmental issue. At the same time I wish to bring a little bit of honesty into electoral politics. We will have to tell people that electoral politics in the current format is an obstacle to the resolution. Electoral politicians get vote and that vote is being presented to Delhi as an endorsement of status quo. We will be very honest with the mandate that we get, that look although we have got the vote which is fundamentally for governance and there is Hurriyat which is custodian of the sentiment and you will have to talk them.

Where will the difference lie between you and Hurriyat, who you say talk about the sentiment?

The difference lies in what the electoral politics stands for. Elected people don’t tell truth to the rest of the people about who they are. We will tell the people that we are here for governance and the Hurriyat is the representative of that sentiment. We will be truthful in this representation.

What is the sentiment you are talking about?

The sentiment is that here people don’t relate to the idea of India.

You criticised central government for failing to bring back Kashmiri Pandits. Do you have a road map for their return?

What I have said is that amid the escalation of the situation here, nothing was done to bring back Kashmiri pandits. They have been an important aspect of composite Kashmiri culture. My kids have no idea of Kashmiri Pandits. I have a great desire that they come back and we need to work on that.

You want to own the vocabulary of Azadi, plebiscite and now even talk about ‘sentiment’. Separatists face jails and cases for the same. Will you be spared of sedition cases?

We need to add these words in the vocabulary of (mainstream) politics. Kashmir is a unique place and what qualifies sedition in other parts of India, we need to be tolerant here. We should be accommodative and listen to the youth. You can’t dictate the language to youth if you want the resolution of the issue.

You talked about killings. Many people say as deputy commissioner, Bandipora, you signed dossiers booking youth under PSA. Any regrets?

I think I have been very careful as the deputy commissioner and observed due diligence in PSA cases. There are many instances when I did not simply sign the order.However, as an officer I had to do my job and bring back order and peace. While doing my duty, my immediate concern was whether the person did it or not. Why he did it was not immediately my part of the job. But I think then I did not take any more assignments as DC of any other districtto avoid such situations.

In your first press conference after resignation, an angry youth accused you of being a projection of deep state. How do you respond.

This apprehension is quite normal because the youth have no trust on the political setup here. I completely empathise with the youth.

As an IAS officer you know the system. The J&K governor also remarked that you could have helped the state more as an officer than a politician. Will politician Shah Faesal make any difference when there are already some senior and articulate politicians from J&K in the parliament and assembly?

I am not claiming for being the sole voice. I am saying that we need correct representation for Kashmir. We need to bridge the gap to represent the people truthfully.

You hailed Imran Khan and Arvind Kejriwal. Any plans to follow their path and start a new party?

These two people have been amazing. They have struggled a lot. They are certainly an inspiration but it will be a long term plan to reach what they have achieved.

Which politician here impresses you the most?

I won’t be naming him.

Had I been the editor, a nationalistic, I would have titled the article as "Does shah faisal secretly admires modi"

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby suryag » 16 Jan 2019 04:43

All of this gyan after a fullbright scholarship stint ... dont know which country's deep state is being referred to in the above paragraph

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 19 Jan 2019 10:26

on the intervening night of 19 and 20 Jan ,1990 the Kashmir Pandits were terrorized out of Kashmir.
and the Supreme Court fixed the hearing on Art 35A today knowing it was a Saturday.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karthik S » 20 Jan 2019 12:32



At the end, Maj Gen recommends trifurcating J&K. Also, seems to be critical of the kid glove carrot policy of Ram Madhav.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sunnyP » 20 Jan 2019 23:23

/\/\/\/\/\/\

Really feel the pain and frustration in his voice - and who can blame him! The situation is now so perverse that in the last 4/5 years 100s of Rohinyas have settled in Kashmir yet not a single Pandit family has been resettled there. The resettling of Pandits was a major manifesto pledge in 2014 as well.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 23 Jan 2019 10:38

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/sc-to-tak ... icle-35-a/

SC to take ‘in-chamber’ decision on listing of plea challenging Article 35-A
excerpted
The Supreme Court on Tuesday said it would take an “in-chamber” decision on listing of a petition challenging the constitutional validity of Article 35-A, which provides special rights and privileges to permanent residents of Jammu and Kashmir.
Advocate Bimal Roy mentioned the matter before the bench headed by Chief Justice Ranjan Gogoi and also comprising Justices L Nageswara Rao and Sanjiv Khanna.
He sought urgent hearing of the petition, filed by ‘We The Citizens’, saying the court had earlier ordered listing of the matter in the second week of January.
In August, the apex court adjourned hearing on a batch of petitions challenging Article 35 A till January this year, after taking note of submissions of the Centre and the state government that there was a law and order problem in the state.



Article 35 A denies property rights to a woman who marries a person from outside the state. The provision, which leads to such women from the State forfeiting their right over property, also applies to her heirs.
if a woman of the State married an outsider, she loses several rights, including property rights, in the State, but if a man marries a Pakistani woman, he and his spouse get all rights.
there are countless women married in the adjoining states of J&K who got widowed or the marriages did not work out. On returning to their parents home in J&K they and their offspring are denied rights to education, jobs, govt schemes on low cost employment generating loans etc.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 23 Jan 2019 19:33

It also bars people from other parts of India from settling in J&K and being considered a domicile of the state.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 23 Jan 2019 22:08


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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 23 Jan 2019 22:12


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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 09 Feb 2019 19:03

New Ladakh division created. This will not only help in meeting the aspirations of Ladakh region but also make it easier to divide Indian J&K into three parts in future.

https://www.thetruepicture.org/jammu-ka ... dakh-modi/

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 10 Feb 2019 18:36


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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 11 Feb 2019 21:52

Very, very confusing. I think it is because of law and order before elections.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 945692.cms

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 13 Feb 2019 20:27

Kargil is unhappy with making Leh the capital of Ladakh division. Since Kargil area and Siachen are actually southern and eastern Baltistan, it ought to be made a separate division with the name Baltistan and capital Kargil. This will send positive vibes to the remaining part of Baltistan in POK.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sachin » 14 Feb 2019 16:34

Supratik wrote:Kargil is unhappy with making Leh the capital of Ladakh division.

Kargil is also a very peacefool place and demographically closer to the Kashmir Valley (don't know whether they share the same "entitlement" mentality as well). Ladakh being given a "division" hood also means that the Budhist aspirations of the region would also be taken care off. There has to be a way that J&K state is not completely overwhelmed by the peacefool politicans of Kashmir valley alone.


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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 14 Feb 2019 18:28

Kargil is largely Shia and except some Shias in the valley they have been largely peaceful and pro-India.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karthik S » 14 Feb 2019 19:12

30 causalities. This is the highest causality in 2 decades. For some reason, I don't feel like waiting weeks for muh thod jawab. This time retaliation (if any) must be seen. No foot soldiers this time.


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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Raveen » 14 Feb 2019 19:18

Karthik S wrote:30 causalities. This is the highest causality in 2 decades. For some reason, I don't feel like waiting weeks for muh thod jawab. This time retaliation (if any) must be seen. No foot soldiers this time.


Problem is the NaPak pigs know with the elections around the corner, even the Modi-Doval combo is hamstrung. If they launch a war, the opposition will claim this was done for election propaganda. Ghar main ghus ke mareinge will have to wait for democracy unfortunately, and the piggies know that.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Arima » 14 Feb 2019 19:39

Raveen wrote:
Karthik S wrote:30 causalities. This is the highest causality in 2 decades. For some reason, I don't feel like waiting weeks for muh thod jawab. This time retaliation (if any) must be seen. No foot soldiers this time.


Problem is the NaPak pigs know with the elections around the corner, even the Modi-Doval combo is hamstrung. If they launch a war, the opposition will claim this was done for election propaganda. Ghar main ghus ke mareinge will have to wait for democracy unfortunately, and the piggies know that.

BJP has nationalist, hardline image.
election notification is still 1-2 weeks away. time for action.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 14 Feb 2019 19:51

Retaliation speed will depend on if they have a plan ready for such actions post surgical strike. I don't think elections will come in the way of national security which the govt is duty bound to follow till the last day it is in power.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 14 Feb 2019 19:53

This is also timed with Art35A and Art370 coming up in the SC. It is intended to scare the govt and judiciary from scrapping those two articles. More reason why govt and courts should proceed with the issue. Otherwise they will keep on terrorizing.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Neshant » 14 Feb 2019 21:05

Supratik wrote:This is also timed with Art35A and Art370 coming up in the SC. It is intended to scare the govt and judiciary from scrapping those two articles. More reason why govt and courts should proceed with the issue. Otherwise they will keep on terrorizing.



+1. It is time to scrap it.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sachin » 15 Feb 2019 10:50

On the terrorist attack. Is CRPF convoy movement SOP different from that of IA? In IA the SOP seems to NOT allow any civilian vehicle to get in between a convoy. This is precisely to thwart attack of the types which happened yesterday. My understanding is that there were nearly 200 CRPF personnel going in the convoy, and the maximum casualties were from a single bus (which most likely would have been close to the suicide bomber). And looks like this convoy had 2457 men travelling in it. That seems to be a really large number, and was really a "sitting duck".

Supratik wrote:Retaliation speed will depend on if they have a plan ready for such actions post surgical strike. I don't think elections will come in the way of national security which the govt is duty bound to follow till the last day it is in power.

Please note that the target this time was CRPF, who generally will NOT have any cross border raiding skills. They are a slightly better armed police force, that is all. So what kind of retaliation is possible, when & how needs to be decided by GoI in more detail and perhaps would take time. To be frank, I am expecting a retaliation especially because BJP so far has been seen as pro-Defence Forces & CPOs and strong against terrorism.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby suryag » 15 Feb 2019 11:07

am pretty sure there are retaliation plans drawn up for various scenarios and kept ready. the thought would therefore be on getting the maximum bang given all the plans in hand

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby hnair » 15 Feb 2019 15:02

National security actions are agnostic of election dates. It is planned and executed by professionals who are permanent servants of the people of India. Dont think that is a factor.

The key thing is what to do with China, since it has messaged it has control over pakistani government nowadays. Khan seem to have receded a lot in the past two years from paki landscape

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J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Peregrine » 15 Feb 2019 15:58

X Posted on the Terroristan Thread

MFN status to Pakistan revoked after Pulwama attack: What it means

NEW DELHI: India on Friday withdrew the 'most-favoured nation' or MFN status to Pakistan after a terror attack which took lives of at least 38 CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) personnel in Jammu and Kashmir.

This is one of the deadliest terror attacks in Jammu and Kashmir when a suicide bomber rammed a vehicle carrying over 100 kg of explosives into their bus in Pulwama district.

The move to remove MFN status would enable India to increase customs duty on goods coming from the neighbouring country.

When was it given to Pakistan:

India granted the MFN status to Pakistan way back in in 1996, but the neighbouring country has not yet reciprocated.

The MFN status was accorded under WTO's General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT). Both India and Pakistan are signatories to this; and are members of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), which means they have to treat each other and the other WTO member countries as favoured trading partners in terms of imposing customs duties on goods.

What happens when India removes MFN status:

Removal of this status means India can now enhance customs duties to any level on goods coming from Pakistan, a trade expert said.

Last year in November, a senior aide to Pakistan's Prime Minister Imran Khan had said that the country has "no immediate plans" to grant MFN status to India. Pakistan allows only 137 products to be exported from India through the Wagah border land route.

Total India-Pakistan trade has increased marginally to $2.41 billion in 2017-18 as against $2.27 billion in 2016-17. India imported goods worth $488.5 million in 2017-18 and exported goods worth $1.92 billion in that fiscal.

Under MFN pact, a WTO member country is obliged to treat the other trading nation in a non-discriminatory manner, especially with regard to customs duty and other levies.

What India imports and exports:

India mainly exports cotton, dyes, chemicals, vegetables and iron and steel; while it imports fruits, cement, leather and spices.

For instance, when the export of materials like cotton and chemicals from India will stop, it will push up production cost for the mentioned Pakistani industries.

The step was announced after a meeting of the cabinet committee on security (CCS), chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, to discuss the security scenario in J&K in the wake of the terror attack.

Pros of MFN:

MFN status is helpful for the developing nations. The countries with the status have broader access to a market for trade goods, reduced cost of export items owing to highly reduced tariffs and trade barriers.

It also reduces the bureaucratic hurdles and varied kinds of other tariffs for imports. It then increases demands for the goods and giving a boost to the economy and export sector.

Cheers Image

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Arima » 15 Feb 2019 16:14

To make pak economically crippled make global MNC take a stand, if you want business in India, avoid pak. Trade with us or them.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 15 Feb 2019 18:26

We on BR know this, but no matter how tough ModiJi talks, or how angry Indians maybe, TSP is celebrating this over scotch and Bollywood music. Just to give you a glimpse of the evil Pakis, here are some tweets from a TFTA Paki which p!ssed off even his lover girls in India


Jyoti Malhotra

Verified account

@jomalhotra
7h7 hours ago
More Jyoti Malhotra Retweeted EH
What is this horrifying equivalence ? Who can take you seriously ?Jyoti Malhotra added,
EH

@ejazhaider
those of us who believe that no one should lose his/her life will not celebrate the killing of those soldiers. but, equally, India and its Modi-Duval establishment needs to realise that when oppression becomes unbearable, there are consequences. and this is what happens.

Jyoti Malhotra

@jomalhotra

Shame on you for celebrating terror. Is this your humanity @ejazhaider ?Jyoti Malhotra added,
EH

@ejazhaider
Adil Dar Shaheed avenges everyday oppression and humiliations of Kashmiris by sacrificing his life and taking on #CRPF soldiers (hard target) by killing them. it's still time for India to begin negotiating seriously on the right to self-determination, a peremptory norm.



Do you think a surgical strike here or there will civilize such monsters? And our elites like Jyothi advocate p!ss talks with such scum.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ramana » 15 Feb 2019 21:46

Folks please discuss #Pulwana in Military Forum. All these are leading to military option. I don't want dissipation of our efforts.
Thanks.
ramana

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby menon s » 16 Feb 2019 11:45

menon s wrote:Well if the youth are feeling alienated, then why? is the rate of actionable intelligence growing so fast?
The next step is a wave of suicide attacks on our forces by militants, thats for sure.
If we know thats coming a strategy needs to be in place to counter it.



I had predicted this wave of suicide attacks, as far as Dec 17th 2018........on the J&K forum.
Feeling very sad that my prediction happened!

But on the other hand,suicide bombings happen at the last dregs of any insurgency.....you will have men as suicide bombers and then women and children too....! and then for some unknown reason...everything becomes cold.

So the next ten or so years, i feel the wave of suicide attacks will happen everywhere inside J&K

Stick strictly to SOPs.....dont get carried away by....emotions targeting the goodness within us. Afterall its the a game of willpower.

The will of a billion plus Indians vs psychos from 7th century AD.gy


DONOT PRESSURE THE GOI TO RECOIL IN REVENGE.

The strategy to limit Pakistan, is already in place when the PM said...."surgical strikes are not enough"....

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 18 Feb 2019 14:13

art 370 and art 35a have to go.
for the last few days Jammu is reeling under curfew. This appears to be an opportunity to the Jammu Kashmir Armed Police which is recruited in Kashmir division to beat innocents.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/jkap-cops ... ge-passes/
posted in full

JKAP cops beat-up innocents, refuse to acknowledge passes.
Jammu and Kashmir Armed Police (JKAP) personnel deployed at various places in curfew bound areas of Jammu City today brazenly displayed their utter communal attitude by beating-up, harassing and tearing off curfew passed issued by none other than the Deputy Commissioner, Jammu and forcing the people, who had to go to hospitals, railway stations, airports or weddings, to return to their homes.
Excelsior received large number of telephone calls and complaints through other communication modes from the people, who claimed that Army, CRPF and Jammu Police behaved extremely well, accepted curfew passes and allowed people visiting hospitals, railway stations, bus stands or airports for emergency visits.
Authorities had yesterday declared at Civil Society meeting that identity cards of Medical staff and emergency services, journalists and wedding cards would be treated as curfew passes to avoid inconvenience to the people, who were ailing, performing their professional duties or had to make arrangements for marriages in the wedding season.
However, while Army, CRPF and Jammu Police followed the directions, the JKAP personnel even without waiting for the curfew passes or identity cards to be shown by the people, started beating up the people with lathis and hurled “communal abuses” on them.
One of the sufferers told the Excelsior that the JKAP men were not behaving like police personnel and it seemed that they had some grudge against the Jammu people. The people threatened to take to streets if the JKAP personnel were not removed from the City immediately saying their presence could lead to fresh trouble and clashes.
One of the valid curfew pass holders said the JKAP cops snatched his curfew pass and tore it off. Another citizen said the JKAP men threw the wedding card shown by him and snatched the goods he was taking to the venue of the marriage.
A newspaper hawker was beaten-up mercilessly at Residency Road by the JKAP men even though he possessed the curfew pass issued by the District Magistrate Jammu.
Number of organizations have condemned the attitude of the JKAP personnel and sought their immediate removal from the City if the administration wants restoration of peace.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Feb 2019 17:48

^^somone who was on BRF had an interesting tweet, "pakistan does not know, what forces they've set in motion". This is one of manifestation. I still remember the attitude of NIT Srinagar guys showing their ugly face. At some point or other we have to face them. Now may not be a bad time. I hope the forces that be did good preparation

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sridhar K » 19 Feb 2019 20:28

Posting here since the Pulwama thread locked and anyway this is the right thread.

Karan M wrote:Sridhar K would really appreciate your first hand views, regarding the security situation on the ground.


I am a novice on security issues augmented only by a daily feed of wisdom from BR since 2002. So please take my observations with a pinch of salt.

General Update about places we visited
we went in a group of 26. Our group was primarily spiritual gang focusing on the some of the places of workship in Kashmir. We had a day for site seeing in Gulmarg. Planned Pahalgam, visited Kheer Bhavani temple, Dal Lake and Shankaracharya temple of the hill.

First we visited Gulmarg for a overnight stay and then returned to Srinagar and stayed at a hotel in Badami Bagh cantonment, reminded me of the suicide attack in the early 2000. was supposed to visit Pahalgam, Anantnag, Martand Sun temple ruins but due to strike called out on 17th we instead covered Sankaracharya temple that day, visited Kheer Bhavani temple and returned back from Srinagar airport

Key observations from the interactions with the locals
• Even without us asking, the locals questioned us on what we think about Kashmir and started pontificating on how Kashmir is such a beautiful, peaceful places spoiled by corruption. All they want is to live in peace but spoilt by a few people .
• Some said that they want to be with India only but expected to be treated with respect and not look at everyone as a terrorist.
• Some like our local guide in Gulmarg who finally revealed he is pro paki and the reason stated is that they ensure that they don't disturb tourism which is the life line of the people there. He blamed corruption that the bribe rates of Govt job is 20Lakhs at a minimum. There is hardly any governance there with even cleaning of the road, removing snow being left to private enterprise.
• Our tour guide said that he is happy with India more than Pakistan and he has travelled a lot on Indian passport (obviously Indian passport has much better value than the paki one). However, he wants to restore to 1953 terms where they had Sheikh abdullah as the prime minister. He was upset that India has systematically taken away their privileges and that is the only problem they have.
• None were critical of the Pulwama attack and instead blamed Modi.. The guide said that the problem could be solved if Modi talks to Imran. First came to know from the local sledge operators in Gulmarg that Kashmiris are being beaten in India (now we know where the propaganda is targetted). I had to tell him that there is no such things and these are just rumours.
• They were saying that these talk of war is not good for anyone and can be sorted out by talking to Pakistan.

General Observations
• Every establishment is owned by KMs and hardly anything from Central govt. The old Ashoka hotel is in ruins. The Gandola is well maintained, and the hotels very professional. The quality of the hotel was pretty good. Sumo/scorpio cabs running Tanmarg/Gulmarg shuttle service amidst snow.
• People seem to be quite rich, larger mansions everywhere (Even the site of the recent encounter) and people seem to have tech gadgets and money, lots of cars. Infrastructure
• You could hardly see any ladies roaming around in Srinagar especially in commercial establishment.
• Most muslims are still clean shaven and very limited Wahhabi beards type locals. Women offsource are purdhahed and kept away.
• Except for central govt and Banks, it was only urdu and English boards only. No hindi whatsoever.
• Lots of skill development centers, Infra investments like flyovers at important junctions in and around Srinagar.
• After leaving Srinagar, the feeling was that you were coming out of an Islamic country
• When looking at the surving temples, under heavy CRFP fortifications with one or two traditional priests, reminded me of the horrors that KP families went through
• Our group which had many naive and clueless people on security affairs got a good education on the state of affairs, understood the plight of our soldiers and were rage filled at the end of the trip.

Security Situations.

• There is four lane road all the way to Tanmarg at the foothills of Gulmarg. Till Narbal on the Srinagar baramulla road, the security was tight with CRPF manning all major junctions. We turned left towards Tanmarg, there was hardly any police seen except one Pandit commercial establishment gaurded by CRPF jawans. Gulmarg was completely free with even Europeans visiting directly using chopper service from Srinagar.
• From Srinagar we came down to Pampore and as Dean's has mentioned, CRPF and RR are deployed on NH 44 every 200m
• Saw them sanitizing the roads for upcoming convoys, holding traffic braving extreme cold, snow. The jawans were eating sitting on the bare earth of food from the boxes.
• While they were checking the vehicles, one of the jawans injured his fingers. When they stopped our vehicle to check, and found South Indians, his inquisitive face turned into a big smile. He then asked the driver for the first aid box which did not have anything. One doctor from our group administered first aid to him and he was very happy to see us. We all gave him the others a salute.
• Most of them had INSAS, and very few Aks apart from Lathis. Helmets were old types with a few of them having the newer issues
• Their helmets were fitted with makeshift grills to protect against stone pelters.
• Their kits need a lot of improvements and but could see newer kits with a few of them.
• RR Cantonments are fortified well. The same can’t be said of the CRPF battalions with shanties.
• There is threat to central govt establishements, Indian pvt. Sector like banks, construction sites, Security personall and lesser degree to local JK stuff.
• Local private enterprises seems to be there with no fear
• Lots of youths roaming around in the streets in Kashmiri traditional dress doing nothing. Very difficult to know if the guys are holding a gun unless you frisk them.
• The patrols seems similar to the ones seen in hollywood movies of American troops in Iraq/afghanistan.
• Completely opposite to the narrative being fed, the locals are the oppressors and the security forces the oppressed. They stand on the roads amidst extreme cold, snow, chill wind, hostile environment. The security forces are very professionals, polite under grave and hostile situation reminding my childhood reading of stories of IPKF in Sri Lanka.
• Pulwama attack was not in the local psyche at all
• If this is the situation inside India with an hostile population, then imagine the hostility that will be there in PoK if we take them over. Forget about doing COIN in Afghanistan on America’s behest.

Net net
• These guys want the Indian tourism, doles but don’t want any of us to stay permanently
• With the extermination of Pandits, they have ensured that the entire population has been turned hostile to India irrespective of their affinity towards independence or Pakistan.
• Don’t think that the set up is ready for re-instating pandits anywhere without them becoming the target of terrorist and their local sympathizers. Even if we were to settle ex-servicemen, it will be very difficult for their families to live without heavy fortifications and would take move security forces to provide protections
• Looks like the two parties Mufti and Abdullahs + their crony echo systems thrives on terrorism blackmail, keeping the rest of the population poor and cleverly blaming and manipulating their anger against the Indian state, driven by ISI.
• To Sudeeps point of casualties being low in 2007-2014 and combining with what TSD found out on the abdullahs, it becomes apparent that they were bribed to behave well. Once Modi Govt. Bribes were replaced with central schemes which has been swindled by PDP and kept the aam population on the boil.
• Most of the staff in the shops seem had worked for sometime in the rest of India or have someone in the rest, understand even Tamil which makes me wonder if these shops are money laundering units operating in different Indian cities. Recent twitter conversations between Mohandas Pai and Madhu Kishtwar point the same.

wig
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 19 Feb 2019 21:45

What is Article 35A and how Nehru got the devil in Kashmir through backdoor

https://www.mynation.com/news/what-is-a ... oor-pn4gqh

Karan M
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karan M » 19 Feb 2019 22:03

Sridhar K, first thank you for posting so extensively. Now, sorry for being obtuse but why should this...

• Even without us asking, the locals questioned us on what we think about Kashmir and started pontificating on how Kashmir is such a beautiful, peaceful places spoiled by corruption. All they want is to live in peace but spoilt by a few people .
• Some said that they want to be with India only but expected to be treated with respect and not look at everyone as a terrorist.
• Some like our local guide in Gulmarg who finally revealed he is pro paki and the reason stated is that they ensure that they don't disturb tourism which is the life line of the people there. He blamed corruption that the bribe rates of Govt job is 20Lakhs at a minimum. There is hardly any governance there with even cleaning of the road, removing snow being left to private enterprise.
• Our tour guide said that he is happy with India more than Pakistan and he has travelled a lot on Indian passport (obviously Indian passport has much better value than the paki one). However, he wants to restore to 1953 terms where they had Sheikh abdullah as the prime minister. He was upset that India has systematically taken away their privileges and that is the only problem they have.
• None were critical of the Pulwama attack and instead blamed Modi.. The guide said that the problem could be solved if Modi talks to Imran. First came to know from the local sledge operators in Gulmarg that Kashmiris are being beaten in India (now we know where the propaganda is targetted). I had to tell him that there is no such things and these are just rumours.
• They were saying that these talk of war is not good for anyone and can be sorted out by talking to Pakistan



...make you and your team rage filled? I feel I am misunderstanding you. From the above it seems locals are, apart from being anti-Modi, very keen to ensure you had a good image of Kashmir and all that they want is to live in peace etc?
Is it because you felt they were being disingenuous and not actually unhappy or sad about Pulwama?

SaiK
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby SaiK » 19 Feb 2019 22:21

Thanks Sridhar K. for the feedback.

Essentially, it is now musharraffed state! that is what I read. We can't pretty much solve this without shaking the A370 bus. Only a national integration issue, that I see.

I also feel the stone pelters head chief once encountered, we will get more data leading to TSP involvement. Or break their legs - baluch freedom and Sindh.

:)

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sridhar K » 19 Feb 2019 22:48

Karan M wrote:Sridhar K, first thank you for posting so extensively. Now, sorry for being obtuse but why should this...



...make you and your team rage filled? I feel I am misunderstanding you. From the above it seems locals are, apart from being anti-Modi, very keen to ensure you had a good image of Kashmir and all that they want is to live in peace etc?
Is it because you felt they were being disingenuous and not actually unhappy or sad about Pulwama?


It is a combination of things and may be even pre-judice on my side. For all their nice talk, the Pulwama terrorist attack, the local support for it, treatment being meted out to the security forces (Stone pelting, constant heckling), complete extermination of pandits from the Valley, their sense of entitlement (taking all what India has to offer on one hand and other hand abusing India etc. and on the last day of the trip, the loss of 4 soldiers in the encounter the pigs etc. affected us. Srinagar airport reminded me about the sacrifice of the Indian army men in ensuring that whatever we have retained, Nehru's role, the C systems weakening of our forces including dismantling of TSD.

On the personal faith front the fact that in a place which was the fountain head of Shaivism, place where Adi Sankara wrote a few Bhashyas today has completely exterminated whatever is left of Hindu faith. 150+ temples destroyed, few surviving temples have to be heavily guarded . The Kheer Bhavani temple in Ganderbal is in fortified area with houses for CRPF and a Pandit family who is staying all alone while his family are in Jammu.

Not that I don't recognize the genuine grievance of Kashmiris but it is nothing different from what we see in various parts of India but to attributing those to bad intentions of Indian state and having a secessionist revolt is not done. I have seen a lot of people from South visiting Kashmir and buying these nice statements (reminding of how visiting westerners are bowled over by Paki hospitality which hides the underlying intentions and perfidy).

For the group, this was a learning experience of the difficulties that Indian armed forces operate to preserve the nation and the Kashmiris abuse of India while getting a good share of Indian money being pumped into the valley.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby nam » 19 Feb 2019 23:06

Putting some dates on important things that is happening for the next few days.

MBS visit till 20th
Aero India till 24th
National War Memorial on 25th.

There were rumors of Bibi and Chini president visits in Feb. Luckily not happening.

In case there is expectation of fireworks.. don't see it happening till 25th.

nam
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby nam » 19 Feb 2019 23:10

Regarding 370, we have to keep in mind, it is not just Kashmir. I am pretty sure Jammu or Ladakh does not want it removed either. So it is a pointless exercise.

No different from our usual regionalism. If you want to play the demographic game, increase it in Jammu & Ladakh. More MLA needs to be go from this region..political power needs to be come to Jammu & Ladakh.

If UP mullas can settle in Kashmir, why can't be use Jammu..?


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