Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

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Indranil
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 13 Aug 2018 00:06

I know that the TSTO was desgined with clustered SCE200 in mind. But, I am really waiting for the day when our SSLV is a reusable TSTO. Lower stage is L40 packaged as RLV. And upper stage is recoverable CUS12 stage. What a beautiful day that would be.

Image

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Misra » 13 Aug 2018 00:39

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7248&p=2174502#p2174502

Misra wrote:indeed, ISRO should think of establishing a 24-hr channel of its own now, ISROTV or whatever


ISRO set to launch its TV channel

^ good to see

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SriKumar » 13 Aug 2018 02:48

Good find Kurup. Some good information.

Prasannasimha's one-line post mentioned Chellikere by name and I saw that it was in the middle of Karnataka and was wondering how the hell would ISRO launch from Sriharikota and land in Karnataka with all the population centres in between. And a 3 km drop did not suggest a rocket launch.

This explains it. So it is confirmed that it will be a land landing, and therefore a test of the landing gear among other things. That they are testing it around population centres seems to suggest a very high degree of confidence in the autonomous control of the craft- they'll have to bleed off some energy before landing one assumes. A helicopter might give it about 100 knots of forward velocity (or may be lower) and release it for a glide to the landing strip.


Regarding the ISRO TV channel-
if there is any way to provide any feedback, please let me know. I want one audio feed to be without the pratyaksh 'aankhon-dekha haal' commentary and have it only with the ISRO communication calls outs.....e.g. parfaarmans naarmal.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 13 Aug 2018 09:58

It is a drop test. Challakere testing range is a huge area snd pretty desolate !

The dwitheeya charan prajwalith ho raha he will make literature gurus also squirm.

The idea is to take it to the masses. Not a Language tutorial.

Ability to assimilate words is English's forte and why French etc are in decline.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 13 Aug 2018 10:18

Do we have any information about what the payload capacity of RLV is expected to be? I am guessing more than a PSLV but less than GSLV Mk2.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 13 Aug 2018 10:35

The original plan was 5 tons to GTO. Essentially, make the lower SC400 stage of HLV reusable.

But, I will go back to my usual Rona dhona. Why not have a smaller version with a single SCE200 engine? Even if they achieve 1% mass fraction, with the C27 used as the upper stage, you will get a launcher with higher payload capability than our PSLV.

Similarly, an STVE based first stage and CUS15 based second stage can be our future SSLV equivalent.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SaiK » 13 Aug 2018 10:58

14.388264, 76.578452
? it looks like near 4km runway - google map scales approx ~ 3.6 km

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Gyan » 13 Aug 2018 11:13

As per the presentations given by i s r o scientists, all our liquid fuel stages are inherently reusable and only question is whether it is economical to recover & refurbish them and reuse them

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 13 Aug 2018 11:23

Trikaal wrote:Do we have any information about what the payload capacity of RLV is expected to be? I am guessing more than a PSLV but less than GSLV Mk2.


What payload you are looking for? If it is for human space travel or experimental payloads for LEO, then you do not need substantial payload capacity on RLV.

One of the reason Space Shuttle failed was it tried to be everything to everybody, it became so huge that it could not be mounted on the top of any booster, but on the side. Its payload capacity was good but became unwieldy. PSLV is a versatile launch (now GSLV-Mk II) vehicle, and it is because it does one thing it is designed to do very well. It does not try to be all things to all payloads.

RLV should be thought of a shuttle taking humans or critical supplies to LEO at a very very competitive rate. Not more than that. For the rest, either there is TSTO or expend-able or partially re-useable launch vehicles.

For the later, there is plethora of mature technologies - from solid rocket boosters to cryo engines. If new research in large payload launch vehicles need to be done, it should be in nuclear "fueled" rockets.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 13 Aug 2018 11:25

Gyan wrote:As per the presentations given by i s r o scientists, all our liquid fuel stages are inherently reusable and only question is whether it is economical to recover & refurbish them and reuse them

We are behind the curve on that. The TFTA SC engines use more clean burning fuel than kerosene. Leaves less soot on the engines.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 13 Aug 2018 11:31

Here is a note on detractors of SRB., the SRB booster technology is so matured that there is talk of robots building the SRBs. Imagine carbon fibre filament wounded composite casings co-cured with butadiene (rubber) composite fuel, which is assembled by an army of robots. The ISP will approach the liquid engines of today at the same time offering massive thrust and assured reliability.

Here is a link to watch from 2:00 mins.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 13 Aug 2018 11:32

Indranil wrote:We are behind the curve on that. The TFTA SC engines use more clean burning fuel than kerosene. Leaves less soot on the engines.


Where are you going to source such fuel from?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 13 Aug 2018 11:45

disha wrote:
What payload you are looking for? If it is for human space travel or experimental payloads for LEO, then you do not need substantial payload capacity on RLV.

...

RLV should be thought of a shuttle taking humans or critical supplies to LEO at a very very competitive rate. Not more than that. For the rest, either there is TSTO or expend-able or partially re-useable launch vehicles.

I am not looking for any specific payloads. I am just trying to find out what mission parameters does the ISRO have for RLV. ISRO has to have an ideal payload in mind for RLV.

Regarding human flight, yes it's good idea for cheaper transport once you have a space station ready. But is that what iSRO plans to use it for? Considering that at present there is no space station or any plans to build one since there is no mandate to launch manned space missions. I don't think ISRO is developing this to act as ferry service for chinese or american space stations.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 13 Aug 2018 12:08

For RLV, several technologies are still to come together for integration. Currently, they are in Landing experiment (LEX) stage., maybe they took NLCA's landing gear and tied it to RLV (just kidding), but the goal for LEX here is to check if RLV's landing gear can actually handle or RLV can calculate its way back autonomously and several technologies and algorithms and processed around it.

Followed by a full up test and followed by integration with scramjet engines. So its qualification is long way to go, maybe into 2030s. Of course a host of technologies have to come together first.

Currently I do not know if ISRO has published any payloads., but if one has to speculate., it will be great if RLV can take four crew members and ferry them at <$1000/Kg. At <$100/Kg., it will be nothing short of spectacular!

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby jpremnath » 13 Aug 2018 12:43

SaiK wrote:14.388264, 76.578452
? it looks like near 4km runway - google map scales approx ~ 3.6 km


It does look like they are planning a 4km long runway. I guess this is where Rustom 2 and our future UAVs are gonna cut their teeth. Its is in the middle of nowhere...nice!!..

I remember there was a flood of sob stories in different national and international media about how Challikere complex is a nuclear and military installation which is taking away graze lands from the villagers and destroying a way of life. It was clear that they were well planned hit jobs trying to rouse some agitation from common folk and usual lefties probably in the lines of Kudankulam agitation. It was a relentless campaign which for some reason never caught anyones imagination...even the JNU folks were silent..

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 13 Aug 2018 15:51

They got their behinds wacked by no less than the NGT.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 13 Aug 2018 15:59

jpremnath wrote:
SaiK wrote:14.388264, 76.578452
? it looks like near 4km runway - google map scales approx ~ 3.6 km


It does look like they are planning a 4km long runway. I guess this is where Rustom 2 and our future UAVs are gonna cut their teeth. Its is in the middle of nowhere...nice!!..

I remember there was a flood of sob stories in different national and international media about how Challikere complex is a nuclear and military installation which is taking away graze lands from the villagers and destroying a way of life. It was clear that they were well planned hit jobs trying to rouse some agitation from common folk and usual lefties probably in the lines of Kudankulam agitation. It was a relentless campaign which for some reason never caught anyones imagination...even the JNU folks were silent..

Maybe the budget ran out in attack articles to pay for the actual dharna people :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 13 Aug 2018 16:20

As far as I remember the planned runway for the Sriharikota compkex is 5 Kms


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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 13 Aug 2018 19:25

disha wrote:
Indranil wrote:We are behind the curve on that. The TFTA SC engines use more clean burning fuel than kerosene. Leaves less soot on the engines.


Where are you going to source such fuel from?

They run on methane. Not very difficult to get or even generate.

SRBs are here to stay. And yes they will become all composites, but even then they will have significantly larger inert weight than liquid stages. I don’t see any technologies on the horizon to take their ISPs beyond 275 seconds. In the meantime semi cryo ISPs are touching 330 seconds at sea level.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SaiK » 14 Aug 2018 08:11

5 to more than 15 kms shoreline is available [in terms of free space]. BTW, we could even construct floating runways too. [may be cheaper and shorter time to implement, comparing to haggle with #ShariahCollegium and JNU/NGOs fighting for sea turtles].

like this:
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/im ... 9a7jpg.jpg

of course may not be realistic to build floating for such a long runway

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Rishi_Tri » 15 Aug 2018 08:20

The Prime Minister just announced Manned space Mission by either 2022 or earlier. It shall be called GaganYaan. Watershed moment for Indian Space Programs.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Rishi_Tri » 15 Aug 2018 08:21

Time to create Indian Manned Space Mission - Gagan Yaan Thread.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 15 Aug 2018 09:10

Source?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 15 Aug 2018 09:20

Katare wrote:Source?

PM's speech :D

Awesome decision!
The timeline might be a little too optimistic, considering ISRO has said that it will take 5-7 years to undertake manned space flight once funds are approved.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Rishi_Tri » 15 Aug 2018 09:24

Katare wrote:Source?


Narendra Damodardas Modi :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Karthik S » 15 Aug 2018 09:26

8)

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby dinesha » 15 Aug 2018 09:35

India Set for Manned Space Mission After 34 Years, Ganganyan to Blast Off by 2022
https://www.news18.com/news/india/indep ... 45011.html

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 15 Aug 2018 09:39

Great news

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby naruto » 15 Aug 2018 09:58

Great news. Announcing a deadline also shows confidence of leadership on our program. Now to ISRO to accomplish this. Hope the govt. gives all required budget to ISRO.
Though I wish we accomplish this, can this be achieved given the short time and the amount of various techlogies to be proven and man-rated?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 15 Aug 2018 10:05

The human space flight program has been going on in ISRO for many years. The training of the flight crew ( is it vyomanauts?) has been going on for quite some time. Also quite a lot of eork on space suits and crew capsule has been done. I think the drop test and crew escape module were issues tgat have been resolved. After pad abort test tgey will have to do a crew abort test ,3 succesive GSLV flights before human rating can be done

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 15 Aug 2018 10:06

Any way giving a goal and direction is a good thing as it will spur development.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 15 Aug 2018 10:53

Jai Ho!

2022 will be a watershed moment for India. India's own Gaganaviharins in our own GaganaYaan !

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby la.khan » 15 Aug 2018 10:58

prasannasimha wrote:The training of the flight crew ( is it vyomanauts?) has been going on for quite some time.

Awesome decision by PM/GoI to set a target date for a manned mission. I prefer to call our space travellers as vyomagami 8)

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby abhijitm » 15 Aug 2018 11:42

Why Gagan? Gagan means sky, isn't it? Should be Avkash or Antriksha... space equivalent.

Anyway, great great news!

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby dinesha » 15 Aug 2018 13:46

India will put man in space for seven days: ISRO Chairman
https://wap.business-standard.com/artic ... 485_1.html
For the first time, India's space agency is planning to put an Indian astronaut for seven days in space at a cost less than Rs 10,000 crore as part of its manned mission by 2022, ISRO Chairman K. Sivan said on Wednesday.

With Prime Minister Narendra Modi giving the Indian Space Research Organisation the target to be achieved in the next four years, Sivan told IANS: "Our plan is to have a human being in space for seven days and not less than that.

"He will be in a spacecraft, 300-400 km above earth," Sivan said, as he explained that the rocket to be used for the manned mission would be a Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mark III (GSLV-Mk III).

He said the first unmanned flight as part of a manned space mission will happen two years from now.

"There will be two unmanned space missions before the actual manned space mission," Sivan added.


In his Independence Day address to the nation, Modi said: "In space technology, we have dreamt something; our scientists have dreamt something. And I am happy to announce that by 2022, the 75th Independence year, we are planning a manned space mission.

"We will put an Indian in space by 2022 or earlier," Modi said.

Asked about the first animal flight before the actual manned mission, Sivan said those things have to be discussed.

Queried about the target date set by Modi and the steps to be taken by ISRO, Sivan said: "We will have to get a formal approval for the project. The manned mission project cost will be less than Rs 10,000 crore.

"We are in the process of developing some of the technologies and already have some. Our idea is to develop everything within India," he added.

According to him, ISRO has already tested the crew module and crew escape systems.

The space agency on July 5 carried out a successful maiden pad abort test at its spaceport Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh for the safe escape of the crew in an emergency.

"The technology is very essential for our manned missions in the future," Sivan had said at an event on July 7.

The critical technology is designed to quickly pull the crew module along with the astronauts to a safe distance from the launch vehicle in the event of a launch abort.

"We are in the process of developing the life support system for the astronaut, space suit and other things. ISRO is doing this with the support of industries," Sivan had said.

The ISRO Chairman had then said that the space agency was "not close" to a human spaceflight yet.

"We are not close to that. We need to work a lot towards achieving the dream of putting a man in space."

According to him, the selection of astronaut to fly the spacecraft would be done by the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the spaceflight training would be given overseas.

Sivan said ISRO has to set up necessary infrastructural facilities like the control centres for the proposed manned mission.

He said Modi's announcement was a big kickstart and as a whole the nation's science and technology sector would benefit.

So far, only the US, Russia and China have launched human space flights.

(Venkatachari Jagannathan can be contacted at v.jagannathan@ians.in)

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 15 Aug 2018 21:17

Rishi_Tri wrote:
Katare wrote:Source?


Narendra Damodardas Modi :rotfl:

:mrgreen:

Funny wit aside, It is general courtesy to write a line or two about your source if it is from a TV speech that you saw or learned through a personal contact.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Mort Walker » 15 Aug 2018 22:17

For seven days. That’s amazing! I hope to see that this initiative inspires the best and brightest kids to pursue aeronautics and aerospace engineering.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby nam » 15 Aug 2018 22:23

I hope other important projects are not de-prioritized for the space flight. It would be really sad if TSTO & scram-jet projects are delayed for lack of funds.

The scram-jet project is super crucial.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 15 Aug 2018 23:14

Chandrayaan project is the one most likely to be delayed.


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