China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

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chola
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 30 May 2019 17:02

Here is a fun exercise. The Japanese Defense tweets chini incursions as a matter of fact.

On May 29th:

Image
Image
Image

I don't know what those Y-8/Y-9 variants are since they are legion and I don't know Japanese.

So I went to a trusty blog of a chini watcher:
http://errymath.blogspot.com/2015/04/y-8-y-9-aircraft-have-19-different.html

Looked up which of the 19 or so variants most match the picture taken by the Japanese scrambling fighters above.

Image

So it seems, the top picture is of the "GX-8 (Y-9JB) - air complex electronic warfare for the Navy" and the bottom is the "jammer GX-3 (Y-8G)."

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 31 May 2019 16:32

https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1134343511103422464

@Rupprecht_A
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After only a short trip, the 002 carrier is back a Dalian. However, there are black tyre markings on the runway, so touch and go tests were done.

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby NRao » 03 Jun 2019 19:56

Australian helicopters targeted by lasers in South China Sea

Australian military helicopters were targeted with lasers during operations in the South China Sea this month.

"Some helicopter pilots had lasers pointed at them from passing fishing vessels," Euan Graham of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute wrote on The Strategist blog, who was aboard the warship from which the aircraft were operating.

...........

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 04 Jun 2019 13:54

They are pumping out Y-20s in large volumes at Xian. There had been no (known) new contracts for D-30Ks from Russia. The WS-20 is not in mass production yet so the speculation has it that the air frames are powered by the WS-18 which is either a rip-off or more likely a local licensed version of the D-30.

https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1135818635581251584
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Y-20A production seems to continue at a high level ... allegedly recent images taken at Xi'an/XAC (16 Y-20As), Chengdu-Qionglai (7 aircraft - 4th Transport Division) and at Kaifeng (1 aircraft - home of the 13th TD/37th AR ... but also Airborne Forces).
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby kit » 05 Jun 2019 00:05

https://www.janes.com/article/89036/jordan-puts-chinese-uavs-on-sale


The Royal Jordanian Air Force (RJAF) has put its Chinese-made armed unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) up for sale, indicating its disappointment with their performance.

the RJAF said it was looking to sell six CH-4B UAVs, a type made by the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC). The RJAF acquired the type in 2016 along with AR-1 laser-guided missiles and FT-9 guided bombs. The Jordanian aircraft are capable of operating beyond line of sight as they are fitted with satellite communications equipment.


maybe we can buy one and study how not to build a drone :mrgreen:

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 05 Jun 2019 05:15

^^^ Should be pretty cheap if they suck. Imagine the chaos if we patrol the borders with Pakiland or even Cheen with them. lol

Be interesting to see who buys them. Iraq, Saudi Arabia, UAE or Unkil -- if we don't?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Khalsa » 05 Jun 2019 07:07

chola wrote:Image


That is a gorgeous bird.
Well done to them for reverse engineering or whatever they did.

They now own a platform.

A decent sized story that has increased their confidence enough to build a C17 IL76 hybrid.

We will need to head down to the path ourself now that MRTA had failed with Russians

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 05 Jun 2019 08:08

Khalsa wrote:
That is a gorgeous bird.
Well done to them for reverse engineering or whatever they did.

They now own a platform.

A decent sized story that has increased their confidence enough to build a C17 IL76 hybrid.

We will need to head down to the path ourself now that MRTA had failed with Russians


We flew the original way back in 1961. In fact, we actually used the AN-12s of Sqd. 44 to supply positions in the 1962 war against Cheen.

Image

Cheen got their first AN-12s in the early 1960s as well but the Sino-Soviet split forced them into reverse-engineering the examples they had and it took them until the 1970s to introduce a test squadron. From what I read, in the 1980s before the Tiannemen Massacre, Lockheed (producer of the C-130) fixed a slew of problems for the Y-8.

But circumstance which gave them this platform today was the Sino-Soviet split. We both got this plane in the 1960s. We were able to operationalize it then because we had access to the OEM while they couldn't. But in the long run they ended up with their own platform because they were forced into making it on their own.

Western help in the pre-Massacre days boosted the Y-8 and a lot of other chini projects.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby kit » 05 Jun 2019 13:43

chola wrote:
Khalsa wrote:
That is a gorgeous bird.
Well done to them for reverse engineering or whatever they did.

They now own a platform.

A decent sized story that has increased their confidence enough to build a C17 IL76 hybrid.

We will need to head down to the path ourself now that MRTA had failed with Russians


We flew the original way back in 1961. In fact, we actually used the AN-12s of Sqd. 44 to supply positions in the 1962 war against Cheen.

Image

Cheen got their first AN-12s in the early 1960s as well but the Sino-Soviet split forced them into reverse-engineering the examples they had and it took them until the 1970s to introduce a test squadron. From what I read, in the 1980s before the Tiannemen Massacre, Lockheed (producer of the C-130) fixed a slew of problems for the Y-8.

But circumstance which gave them this platform today was the Sino-Soviet split. We both got this plane in the 1960s. We were able to operationalize it then because we had access to the OEM while they couldn't. But in the long run they ended up with their own platform because they were forced into making it on their own.

Western help in the pre-Massacre days boosted the Y-8 and a lot of other chini projects.


This "making on their own " is actually BS if you look at their levels of tech at that time. It had to do with the hundreds of ex Soviet scientists who came to work for them and quite a few settled in. The Chinese backbone of capability for reverse engineering is mainly due to them

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 05 Jun 2019 13:51

sri lankan airlines and some CAR states use them in a cargo hauler role. a SL an12 was often seen nightly at old HAL airport.
recently a kazakh an12 that crossed from TSP to India at wrong place was pounced upon by iaf fighters and landed.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Khalsa » 05 Jun 2019 14:02

@chola
I am very familiar with the An-12s. the IAF An-32 officers were elated when the An-12s retired because the engines were used as a big repository for spares with the 32s. Hence why they soldiered on so well.

I think its a good time to discuss transport options for the future IAF. Might move to another thread.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 05 Jun 2019 14:13

kit wrote:
This "making on their own " is actually BS if you look at their levels of tech at that time. It had to do with the hundreds of ex Soviet scientists who came to work for them and quite a few settled in. The Chinese backbone of capability for reverse engineering is mainly due to them


Saar, no one would have wanted to settle in Mao's hellhole in the 1960's and '70's. That was when the base of their industry was built giving them their core programs in the J-6, J-7, Y-7, Y-8 (rip-offs of MiG-19, -21, AN-24 and -12.)

They were forced to make and rely on chitty local products because they had no choice. The West came in after Nixon, jump started their JH-7 and J-10 programs and also improved their derelict clone programs including the Y-8 above.

The ex-Soviet scientists, the Russian licensed ToT (Flanker) and the Ukrainian (Antonov) connections came in the 1990's and 2000's. The chini aviation base was already well established then.

We tend to forget they had already cloned and shat out literally thousands of MiG-19 and MiG-21 ripoffs (along with many more thousands of their turbojet engines) during the Sino-Soviet split. When the Americans came with their "Peace Pearl" program (which begat the JF-17) and the Israelis with their Lavi, Chengdu, Shenyang, Xian, Shaanxi (Y-8) and the rest of chini industry were already in place.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby kancha » 05 Jun 2019 21:37

Shared some thoughts about the war fighting experiences of the PLA
Twitter Link
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People’s Liberation Army – A History of ‘Valour’
Huge parades, shiny ‘toys’, rows and rows of it. The President, or as he would like to be addressed – The Chairman, inspecting the troops in an open jeep with FOUR mikes, exhorting them to be loyal to him (Yes, apparently the PLA needs to be reminded of it’s obligation to be loyal to the CPC over and over again!). A shiny new aircraft carrier with beautiful introductory videos that would put Top Gun to shame. Or was it the other way round (LINK : China copied not only the music, but also the choreography of Top Gun)?

Then there was the ‘small’ issue of an officially released video of their BESTEST fighter jet, which ‘unfortunately’ was found to be a video from the same ‘Top Gun’ instead! (LINK: China red-faced after footage of new fighter ‘was from Top Gun’)

But one thing that we CAN, and in fact MUST analyse is how the PLA has measured up when time has come to live up to their bombast. And there is plenty to talk about, given their ‘rich’ history of ‘valour’ too. Let us start with the PLA before the establishment of the PRC. They were actually raised as the armed wing of the Chinese Communist Party, and continue to be so even today. Yes, China, the country doesn’t have an army. What they have is the ARMED WING OF THE CPC, enabling the CPC in ruling over China.

The PLA was raised in 1928 to help the CPC ‘struggle’ in its endeavour to establish a communist regime in China. Since almost its very inception, it found itself fighting Chiang Kai Shek’s Koumintang for the right to rule over China. This fight was, however interrupted when the Japanese showed up from across the East China Sea. This is where Mao played a masterstroke – he withdrew from the fight, preferring to let the Koumintang fight the Japanese instead. The same template carried on during the second world war too. So basically, the PLA did NOTHING for the freedom of China when occupied by the Japanese. On the contrary, as soon as the Japanese were defeated with the combined efforts of the Allies and the Koumintang, the PLA attacked a weakened Chiang Kai Shek and drove him to Taiwan.

PRC established, the PLA soon marched into Tibet. There was NO resistance worth the name. Tick first ‘victory’ for the PLA. Fast forward three more years. Gen Eisenhower marched into North Korea, threatening to reach the very doorstep of the PRC on the Yalu River. Mao committed the PLA to ensure the survival of the commie regime. The Americans were ultimately driven back to the 32nd Parallel, where they continue to be even today. This campaign was touted as a stunning victory for the PLA. But was is really a victory? Dig a bit deeper and what does one find? Waves after waves of PLA soldiers sent in to simply overwhelm the Americans by sheer numbers. No tactics. No manoeuvres. Nothing. Just keep sending them till the Americans run out of bullets to shoot them. Very smart, Mr Mao! I will let you google for the fatalities that the PLA as compared to those suffered by the Americans. It was a ‘victory’ indeed, or was it? Total lack of ingenuity. Just one resource that Mao had at his disposal aplenty – scores and scores of poor Chinese soldiers.


Less than a decade later came the 1962 war. Enough has been written about it. But still, I’ll add my own bit. As the Time Magazine wrote – ill armed, ill clad, ill trained, the only thing that the Indian Army didn’t lack was guts. The Indian army was thrust in a battle it was not prepared for. Couple that with questionable leadership and the result did NOT come as a surprise. BUT, one fact that is often left out is that wherever the local commanders did not panic, and actually LED their troops, the Indian soldier stood like a rock on his land. Till his very last breath. Names like Dhan Singh Thapa, Shaitan Singh, Jaswant Singh, Joginder Singh, Yog Raj Palta, Brahmanand Awasthi and the hundreds more became folklore. A beautiful tribute to the Indian warriors who held on to Kibithu / Walong to their last breath appeared in the Pune Newsline on 07 Nov 1999. I still retain the original paper cutting. A must read piece.


The Chinese admit to fewer than 750 casualties in that war. Let us analyse that a bit. 750 casualties. Let that sink in for a moment! Here is how the Chinese fought. They got a peasants’ army to march from the plains of East / South China into the high Himalayas in September / October. That done, they told them to attack. Uphill, against a stubborn enemy. At altitudes ranging from 12 to 18,000 feet. Across a theatre ranging from Ladakh to Kibithu. And then, with the plains of Assam in sight, they called for a ceasefire and withdrew!. Back up the hills from where they’d just climbed down. Back into the icy Tibet. In the peak of winters. And less than 750 casualties? The souls of Maj Shaitan Singh and his Ahirs would be laughing their heads off .. they would have accounted for a tad more than that figure at Rezang La itself! Another ‘victory’, but at what cost once again? And what did they achieve? No new lands came their way. On the contrary, they made an eternal enemy of a large neighbour. One that has given them considerable grief on the battlefield subsequently.


Talking of grief on the LAC, the first instance came soon after 1962, at NathuLa in 1967 when Brigadier Sagat Singh ensured that his Grenadiers killed 300+ Chinese in response to they wounding their commanding officer. Soon thereafter came the incident at Chola, again in Sikkim, less than a month later wherein the Gorkhas of 7/11 GR did a repeat of that. And guess what, Sikkim has been so peaceful since then!


Next decade came another standoff with India at Sumdorong Chu. Interestingly, Wikipedia has got it in good detail. Bottomline, the PLA tried to pre-emptively occupy some areas on the LAC in Arunachal Pradesh, but got the shock of their lives when the Indian army counter mobilised with an entire brigade! Thing is, the Chinese thought that this time too, the ghost of 1962 would prevent India from responding to them. But I guess they forgot that the ghost of 1962 was more than exorcised in 1967 itself. Something similar, in fact, happened at Doklam a few months ago, a standoff which carries on still. If only the PLA could learn from THEIR OWN FCUKING HISTORY!
.
.
At the end of it, I stand firm in my belief that the PLA is all huff and puff, but no WILL to prove that it is not mere bluster. Despite the shiny toys, the Chinese Emperor’s Army is Naked! I guess they know it too, ‘coz their aim seems to be to somehow win without fighting. And they just might succeed in doing so, atleast in the South – China, nay Indo – China Sea as it has historically been called. But they ran into a stone wall in Doklam, hoping for the same template to get repeated.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby SSridhar » 06 Jun 2019 07:02

China tests missile – but here’s why it wasn’t a next-generation JL-3 - SCMP
A missile test by the People’s Liberation Army on Sunday did not feature the country’s next-generation long-range weapon, but instead involved a mid-range Dongfeng missile refitted with improved guidance systems, according to Beijing military sources.

The test was not publicly announced but coincided with a notice issued by the Liaoning Maritime Safety Administration last week declaring the Bohai Bay area – the innermost gulf of the Yellow Sea in northeast China – off-limits to marine traffic from the early morning until noon on Sunday.

The notice triggered speculation among military observers that China might have test-fired its next generation, submarine-launched, strategic JL-3 missile.

Soon after the test, Chinese social media was flooded with messages from people claiming they had spotted a UFO and images of a flying object with a long white tail of smoke in the sky.

On Monday, the PLA’s Rocket Force, the unit that runs China’s missile programme, posted a photo of a missile on a mobile launcher on Weibo, the Twitter-like microblogging platform, accompanied by the rhetorical question: “Do you believe in UFOs?”

This was soon matched by the Chinese navy which posted a photo of a missile being launched from the sea, and asking the same question, “Do you still believe in UFOs?”

The tacit encouragement fuelled a frenzy of Chinese media reports trumpeting the “success” of the missile test, with some carrying headlines referring to “Big Waves” – the Chinese name for the JL-3 or Julang missile – as the punchline. Some even boasted that the test confirmed that the PLA had real muscle.

But two military sources told the South China Morning Post that the missile tested on Sunday was a land-based, mid-range Dongfeng missile launched from Taian in the eastern province of Shandong, while Bohai Bay was closed for another, routine military exercise.

The test coincided with the last day of the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore, Asia’s biggest security forum, which this year was attended by Chinese Defence Minister General Wei Fenghe.

Wei issued a stern warning at the forum on Sunday to “external forces” fostering the idea of independence for Taiwan. He also said China’s construction of artificial islands in the South China Sea was its “legitimate right”.

“China wouldn’t test a strategic missile like the JL-3 at such a sensitive time, when China and the US are locked in a trade war and Chinese generals are meeting foreign counterparts in Singapore,” one of the sources said.

“According to publicly available video, the object’s flight path was different from and its height much lower than that of the JL-3.”

Collin Koh, a military analyst from the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies at Singapore’s Nanyang Technological University, said the media hype, which was deliberately left uncorrected, had been used to address public concerns and expectations in China.

“Sometimes it’s difficult to conceal military activities and missile launches can be observed by the public, such as the rocket trails and light,” Koh said.

“The Weibo posts left it up to the domestic and external audience to imagine whether it was land or submarine launched. Deterrence may be enhanced through such strategic ambiguity.


The intercontinental JL, or Julang series – meaning “big wave” in Chinese – is designed for China’s nuclear-powered submarines, as part of the PLA’s strategy to extend the country’s nuclear deterrent capabilities from land to sea.

China first launched the JL-3, which could deliver a nuclear strike to any country in the world, from a Type 032 Qing-class auxiliary submarine in Bohai Bay in January.

The third-generation JL-3 has a flight range of about 9,000km (5,600 miles) – a significant advance on the JL-2, which has a 7,000km reach.
But it is still less than the 12,000km range of the American Trident II and Russian Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missiles.

A second source said China conducted more than 100 missile tests every year to assess newly added systems.

“As the DF series missiles are ageing, China has to make improvements and test those improvements,” the source said.

“And the military exercise in Bohai on Sunday was not the launch of a JL-3 – it was another, previously scheduled, live-fire exercise by the Chinese navy.”

China has four nuclear-powered submarines, each outfitted with 16 JL-2 missiles, but the Type 096 next-generation submarines will be able to carry up to 24 JL-3s, according to an annual Pentagon report to the US Congress about China’s military build-up.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 06 Jun 2019 13:11

kancha wrote:Shared some thoughts about the war fighting experiences of the PLA
Twitter Link
Blog Link

Despite the shiny toys, the Chinese Emperor’s Army is Naked! I guess they know it too, ‘coz their aim seems to be to somehow win without fighting. And they just might succeed in doing so, atleast in the South – China, nay Indo – China Sea as it has historically been called.



That, my friend, is the greatest challenge of a non-military SRE power like Cheen.

They've flipped the script on the TFTA warrior types -- and they face the pinnacle of warrior cultures in the US and Japan -- by turning the struggle into a war of industrial complexes.

We can safely assume that Cheen's forces cannot fight or at least not very well. But it doesn't matter if they never engage in a war.

They intend to win without firing a shot by flooding areas of contention with their ships and planes. This strategy worked for the Indo-China Sea. It can work anywhere where man relies on machines. The rest of the oceans. The moon. The solar system.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 06 Jun 2019 13:40

Khalsa wrote:@chola
I am very familiar with the An-12s. the IAF An-32 officers were elated when the An-12s retired because the engines were used as a big repository for spares with the 32s. Hence why they soldiered on so well.

I think its a good time to discuss transport options for the future IAF. Might move to another thread.


Khalsa ji, I've always been disappointed in how we as early and prolific operators of the AN-12 and AN-32 never went into production of them. Technology-wise, those planes and the AL-20 turboprop should have been within our capability.

The history of the chini AN-12 has intrigued me recently because of all the Japanese Defense Force intercepts. I am most surprised by the amount of Amreeki help.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaanxi_Y-8
In the 1960s, China purchased several An-12 aircraft from the Soviet Union, along with license to assemble the aircraft locally. However, due to the Sino-Soviet split, the Soviet Union withdrew its technical assistance. The Xi'an Aircraft Company and Xi'an Aircraft Design Institute worked to reverse engineer the An-12 for local production.

Design of the aircraft was completed by February 1972.
...

In 1986, two engineers from Beijing's Ministry of Aviation visited Lockheed. They could not speak very much English, and the Lockheed-Georgia sales person who met them could not speak Chinese. So for half a day, they did a point-and-grunt tour until they were lucky enough to find a Lockheed employee who could speak Chinese. The Chinese wanted to purchase Lockheed wind tunnel testing on the Y-8 in order to address the stall problem.

As a result of these wind tunnel tests, conducted in 1986, Lockheed was given a contract to do a flight test series on the Y-8. Lockheed was told that flight test data was not provided by the Soviets when they helped China build the Y-8 factory. The flight test series was flown by Lockheed test pilot Hank Dees. Hank had flown the test flight series for the Lockheed L-1011 and later for China's Y-12 in Harbin.

During this flight test series, Hank Dees flew the aircraft to stall speed and taught Chinese pilots how to anticipate a stall in order to prevent letting the aircraft go inverted. As a result of this test flight series, Chinese pilots started to use the 45 degree flap position.

Lockheed's motive for doing flight tests was to demonstrate that China would be better off buying the C-130 rather than trying to improve the Y-8. China did buy C-130's, but the flight test series actually demonstrated that the Y-8 was a more capable aircraft than previously believed.

In the late 1980s, Lockheed Martin, the American manufacturer of the C-130 Hercules, helped China to develop a pressurized cabin for the passenger version of Y-8, resulting in two versions: the first had half of the cabin pressurized and later, the second version in which the complete cabin was pressurized.


Later on, they took full advantage of the availability of Antonov driven by Ukraine's fiscal problems. Shaanxi, the Y-8's maker, has created an entire town for Ukrainian engineers starting in 2010.

All this led to the endless varieties of Y-8a and Y-9s we see today. This holds true also for their AN-24/26/32 Y-7s too.

Their persistence and long term planning in developing their industry is seriously impressive.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 06 Jun 2019 15:27

the goal of winning without fighting seems to be a old chinese dna thing.
if historical films or atleast the producers vision of historical films be true, the cheen armies of old were vast massed synchonized gymnastics and flag drill type hordes with drums, trumpets, huge flags of all types, colourful dress, smoke, fire, mass movements from left to right and right to left. a kind of 'shock n awe' to demoralize a wavering enemy with sheer spectable and scale.

onlee issue the mongol horse armies uncivilized steppe barbarians shrugged and tore them to pieces.

japan was more the individual contributor type with scarce iron being rationed to make steel for the highly trained samurai class, who challenged foes to 1:1 combat while rest of the line troops used bows, sticks and spears.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby NRao » 06 Jun 2019 18:10

From 2016 Nov.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 06 Jun 2019 21:22

cnn

On Tuesday, China's Culture and Tourism Ministry warned its citizens of the risks of traveling to the US in an alert, citing frequent recent cases of "shooting, robbery and theft."
On the same day, the country's Foreign Ministry -- along with China's embassy and consulates in the US -- issued a security alert for Chinese citizens, alleging "repeated harassment" of Chinese nationals in the US by local law enforcement officials.
Both notices advise Chinese citizens to "raise safety awareness" in the US, and came shortly after an Education Ministry alert on Monday that warned Chinese students and scholars of the perils of studying in the US due to growing visa issues.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Jun 2019 16:53

^^^ Lol. A warning? Pretty weak. For a commie state, wouldn't it be easier to simply block all travel to the US and create massive issues in the Amreeki industries of tourism (chinis are largest overseas spenders) and education (chinis are largest overseas student body)?

No because that would clobber their own travel and aviation industries.

This is what you get for mixing communism and capitalism. Interlocking shackles.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karthik S » 07 Jun 2019 16:56

Saar, other side comes up with communism, tibet etc etc. It's just mud slinging match going on.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Jun 2019 16:57

Cheen launching their 8th LPD. And here comes their LHD.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RickJoe_PLART/status/1136817262503968769

Rick Joe
@RickJoe_PLART
Image of HDZH, showing flooded dry dock in process of launching 071 no. 8

Note the half complete 075 hull next to it.

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Prasad » 09 Jun 2019 19:37

If you're eating, just ate or going to eat, caution.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 10 Jun 2019 12:00

^^^ I don't why we find the cuisine of Cheen that strange. They are a rice eating race like us after all. After you get past the dog and cat parts of the menu, they are just a little different onlee.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 10 Jun 2019 12:27

other than being tolerant to pig meat in everything incl pig lard trace ingredient in delicious almond biskoots, I did not see any issue in cheen cheen cuisine .... and generally forks are not given in restaurants - one has to adapt to using 2 chopsticks and a soup spoon. we starving yindu can adapt to that easily. the speed and scale how even small eating joints can serve up food is amazing. its like their factories - can deliver @ web scale.
tables and stools in restaurants tend to be small & cramped by well fed indian stds and tiny for gaijin but bearable. keeps rents low.

they have a massive ecosystem of baked goods (cakes, biskoots) and cosmetics different from the indo-western one. all very well packaged.
also theirs and japanese books have a superb quality of illustrations, paper, binding and general aesthetic feel.

its a parallel ecosystem of huge mandarin apps also for mobiles.

one has to respect them creating their own versions of everything and not fawning and defeatist over anything western like our elites tend to do.

scale of investment in top50 cities dwarfs anything in EU/USA most of whose civic infra is old and crumbling - kept alive by high taxes and tourism.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 10 Jun 2019 13:05

^^^ Good observations, Singha ji. They plan things out long term and on massive scale.

Plan and build.

In the chini watchers community, the building and preparation parts are even more fascinating than the hardware themselves.

So a while back, satellites first picked up likely modules for their 003 CATOBAR carrier in an area away from the sea. People debated how they are going get those blocks out. It seems their solution is to simply bring the sea to the modules. It remains to be seen if they will float out superblocks to another dry dock or simply finish assembling here.

Image

Below is one of the big discussions recently: the ship to the left of the newly discovered Type 075 LHD was launched just last week -- the 8th Type 071 LPD. But what interest folks more are the stacked up modules on the far left. Way more than what is needed to finish up the 075. The speculation is that after the launch of the of the LPD another ship will begin building alongside the 075 and the gantry cranes will simply pick and plop the modules into the space opened up.
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 13 Jun 2019 09:08

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/12/opin ... e=Homepage

xinhua criticizes the sissy pants new era mens culture. asks all to be real men.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 14 Jun 2019 15:49

Singha wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/12/opinion/little-fresh-meat-china.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

xinhua criticizes the sissy pants new era mens culture. asks all to be real men.



LOL. Shrieking and makeup. Velly gay.

An article posted on the WeChat account of a major Communist Party committee last fall argued that at a time when China is bedeviled by nuclear threats at its border and a trade war from across the Pacific, the country does not want to see its men “shrieking while refreshing their makeup.”


I wrote about this for some time now. People think this is irrelevant but it totally is relevant when Cheen already has issues recruiting from a soft self-indulgent Little Emperor generation of single children. Now pile on effeminate sissy men more into makeup than martial arts and you have a poor pool of military recruits getting even poorer.

There are discussions in the watchers community that Cheen's pre-occupation with drones and AI is an acknowledgement that they cannot rely on their men on the battlefield. They need a way to fight from afar with joysticks and autonomous vehicles.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby tandav » 14 Jun 2019 16:03

chola wrote:
Singha wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/12/opinion/little-fresh-meat-china.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

xinhua criticizes the sissy pants new era mens culture. asks all to be real men.



LOL. Shrieking and makeup. Velly gay.

An article posted on the WeChat account of a major Communist Party committee last fall argued that at a time when China is bedeviled by nuclear threats at its border and a trade war from across the Pacific, the country does not want to see its men “shrieking while refreshing their makeup.”


I wrote about this for some time now. People think this is irrelevant but it totally is relevant when Cheen already has issues recruiting from a soft self-indulgent Little Emperor generation of single children. Now pile effeminate sissy men more into makeup than martial arts and you have a poor pool of military recruits getting even poorer.

There are discussions in the watchers community that Cheen's pre-occupation with drones and AI is an acknowledgement that they cannot rely on their men on the battlefield. They need a way to fight from afar with joysticks and autonomous vehicles.


The problem I am having is that the probability is high that PRC will be successful in this effort. Having an army of drones with AI and 1000s of gamers playing war on their borders will play right into their strengths... PRC will use its massive industrial machine to win the war... whereas we will lose our soldiers in the battlefield. We must have a counter drone counter AI strategy which will deny them any advantage

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 14 Jun 2019 16:24

^^^ Yes, maybe in two or three decades from now. But that pales to the gray zone/no war policy Cheen is pursuing NOW. They basically took over a sea larger than the size of India without firing a shot by flooding it with ships and aircraft from their MIC.

But if someone is able to maneuver them into a war the next 20 years or so, they'll still need to use those sissies. Their current naval buildup with up to six carrier battle groups and many more LPDs and LHDs will need to be manned by many many pilots, sailors and marines that can't be trained properly for the amount of equipment being pumped out by their MIC. That build up trajectory is already locked in place for the coming decades.

The AI and drone dominant buildup will need to come after this one. That is a future threat. The current creeping threat during peacetime can actually be countered by war with pretty good results considering poor chini manpower -- if anyone is willing to start one with them.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Manu » 15 Jun 2019 02:52

chola wrote:
Singha wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/12/opinion/little-fresh-meat-china.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

xinhua criticizes the sissy pants new era mens culture. asks all to be real men.



LOL. Shrieking and makeup. Velly gay.

An article posted on the WeChat account of a major Communist Party committee last fall argued that at a time when China is bedeviled by nuclear threats at its border and a trade war from across the Pacific, the country does not want to see its men “shrieking while refreshing their makeup.”


I wrote about this for some time now. People think this is irrelevant but it totally is relevant when Cheen already has issues recruiting from a soft self-indulgent Little Emperor generation of single children. Now pile on effeminate sissy men more into makeup than martial arts and you have a poor pool of military recruits getting even poorer.

There are discussions in the watchers community that Cheen's pre-occupation with drones and AI is an acknowledgement that they cannot rely on their men on the battlefield. They need a way to fight from afar with joysticks and autonomous vehicles.


What you are attributing to China is simply the sexual Pareto principle at work, and it applies to *all countries*, including India (except the Islamic World). We are simply reverting to a historical time where 20% of Men had access to 80% of the women (and majority of men opt out of the mating pool). This will come to India too, once our GDP is close to $10 T.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 15 Jun 2019 06:58

^^^ Manu ji, all I can say is I thank Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva that I live in a time where most men are expected to mate. Yikes!

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 15 Jun 2019 13:54

Their shipbuilding techniques are simply superb. At times more interesting than the ships themselves.

This is a Dalian dry dock on May 9th with two Type 052Ds ready for launch near the mouth and a Type 055 and another Type 052D behind a retaining wall. Four destroyers in one dock. Mixed types too.
Image

This is the same dry dock in June. The retaining wall is gone and the Type 055 and Type 052D had been moved (floated?) to their new positions at the mouth and spaces opened up for new ships whose modules are being assembled next to the dock.
Image


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