Indian Interests_2

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Varoon Shekhar
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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 25 Jan 2018 06:46

^

Really nice to hear about merchant guilds, and merchants in general. Too much of history, including Indian history of course, is consumed by writing about battles between one kingdom and another, and between one dynasty and another. This can get very dreary, considering the number of such conflicts spanning more than 2000 years!

Through all this, India must have had a robust economic life, with lots of merchants and trade going on all over the subcontinent. And some merchants venturing out to West, Central and East Asia, as well as parts of Africa and Europe.

It would be refreshing to read a concentrated history of this trade, and the beneficial effect on India. Right from say, 550 BCE( the time of the Buddha) to the arrival of the British. When was this trade at its highest, lowest, did merchants at any time enjoy power and prestige.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Jan 2018 17:58

Ram Madhav at Raisina Dialogue:
https://youtu.be/Cy0evZ56CPE?t=27m10s

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 26 Jan 2018 00:56

Varoon, Fernad Braudel wrote a few pages in is third volume of Civilization and Capitalism, "The Perspective of the world".

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ShauryaT » 26 Jan 2018 20:09

A_Gupta wrote:Ram Madhav at Raisina Dialogue:
https://youtu.be/Cy0evZ56CPE?t=27m10s
I was so wrong in my comments based on the initial reports of this Dialog. I have not seen any major Indian leader articulate a new vision for India, that sounds real, ambitious and absolutely correct for where we are and should be.

Ram Madhav says, we need to be an influential and willing to be a participative global leader. India will lead to its east, participate to our west. American model will not work. Was not comfortable with the words indo-pacific, new global frameworks that are Asian centric are needed. Strategic Autonomy remains an anchor, de-hyphenation ends. He was more comfortable with the words IOR - not INDO-PACIFIC!!!

Beautiful!!!!! Thanks - made my republic day.

The only downside, the forum was western-led Carnegie, US Dep. Sec, Aus DM and ORF (Ambani funded group) and moderated by someone, I do not think highly of.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby manju » 28 Jan 2018 20:16

ramana wrote:Ok the following links describe what Pullekesi was referring to:

1) Manigramam
Kerala coastal merchant guild
: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manigramam

2) Aihole/ Ayaavolu
Aihole merchant guild during Chalukyas of Badami

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Hund ... f_Ayyavolu

3)Ainnurruvar
Merchant guild from 8th to 13th century. Mainly Choal time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainnurruvar

4) Bonus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_gui ... outh_India


5)Archaeology of sea faring in South Asia] Cambridge History series

6)

[url=https://books.google.com/booksid=tjXdDYChdGsC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=Ayyavole&source=bl&ots=-3MUcZ8TLC&sig=jdoOwMqU00OHu-ofwlZbdwJq7Uo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-quH22fHYAhVJRqwKHfARDUUQ6AEIQzAE#v=onepage&q=Ayyavole&f=false]Trading world of the Tamil merchant


This one has nice cover.


I read this book (referred to by a BR member here).. enjoyed it.. a good read..

Caravans: Punjabi Khatri Merchants on the Silk Road

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby manju » 28 Jan 2018 20:25

Varoon Shekhar wrote:^

Really nice to hear about merchant guilds, and merchants in general. Too much of history, including Indian history of course, is consumed by writing about battles between one kingdom and another, and between one dynasty and another. This can get very dreary, considering the number of such conflicts spanning more than 2000 years!

Through all this, India must have had a robust economic life, with lots of merchants and trade going on all over the subcontinent. And some merchants venturing out to West, Central and East Asia, as well as parts of Africa and Europe.

It would be refreshing to read a concentrated history of this trade, and the beneficial effect on India. Right from say, 550 BCE( the time of the Buddha) to the arrival of the British. When was this trade at its highest, lowest, did merchants at any time enjoy power and prestige.


Need to research these more. May offer some lessons for the present day world.. some new models for financing, etc.

In our village

- Every year about 100 people walk to Mantralayam (about 100 km). The whole trip last for 5 days. 2.5 days walking, 2 days at Mantralayam (http://www.mantralayam.com) and return is by bust, etc.. I walked this year (first time) and it was good experience

The onward travel (including food, water, etc.. the people walking are serviced better than in professional long distance races!!) and the stay at Mantralayam is mostly funded by the well to do people who contribute money to a pool. Every year (on some set day), the accounts are settled. People can borrow from the corpus fund but MUST return it at the end of year with interest- which is used for expenses to fund the YATRA and the rest is added to the corpus fund.

- Similarly, a small fund is set up for a temple.. the corpus fund is loaned out..

so far no defaulter... I doubt there will be becuase

- social pressure if default.
- also money belongs to the temple for for a holy purpose... etc

I have read similar things that some of the guilds must have operated similarly in temples.. etc

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 29 Jan 2018 08:30

Minhaz Merchant has very good article

https://twitter.com/MinhazMerchant/stat ... 7845565442

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 07 Feb 2018 11:16


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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby rsingh » 08 Feb 2018 22:15

I do not like to post on B Ganarajya. May I request admins to add a GD dhaga here? I am sure there are other posters like me.
Anyway , I was hospitalised for 3 days and had plenty of time to kill. was surfing news channels and checked Al -zajeera. Harami bandars were 100% anti india and trying to show atrocities upon minorities (as if barberians are very seculars). Would like to request PMO to start international news channel on the lines of RT (it is giving real hard time to established media gundas).

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 14 Feb 2018 17:55

Yagnasri:
For all the Gurus of Mumbai and elsewhere- We have a meeting on the 17th Feb on Rakhine Hindus and the Genocide on them by Rohingya Muslims. Venue D G Khaithan Auditorium Sundar Nagar, Malad West Mumbai at 5 PM. It is a three hour program. Please do attend. In case you are not a local of Mumbai, please do inform the program to any like minded person/s in Mumbai and request them to attend. While efforts are on toe make MSM coverage, we have also engaged professional video person and the program will be upload on Youtube. We can make it reach wider sections of the societyby Social media. Jai Hind.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby IndraD » 15 Feb 2018 00:23

rsingh wrote:I do not like to post on B Ganarajya. May I request admins to add a GD dhaga here? I am sure there are other posters like me.
Anyway , I was hospitalised for 3 days and had plenty of time to kill. was surfing news channels and checked Al -zajeera. Harami bandars were 100% anti india and trying to show atrocities upon minorities (as if barberians are very seculars). Would like to request PMO to start international news channel on the lines of RT (it is giving real hard time to established media gundas).

at least allow one thread for elections please....pretty please... :(( :((

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby IndraD » 15 Feb 2018 17:24

Indian bank hit by $1.8bn fraud case http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43068039

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ShauryaT » 19 Feb 2018 21:58

"The state is the diseased part of our society." Put this guy on a pedestal and worship this nationalist should what a sane government should do as ABV did. How one needs to demarcate the role of the state, choose their leaders and the crisis of democracy. All I will say, traditional Indian systems have some answers if we can get off the western kool-aid.


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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 19 Feb 2018 23:01

IndraD wrote:
rsingh wrote:I do not like to post on B Ganarajya. May I request admins to add a GD dhaga here? I am sure there are other posters like me.
Anyway , I was hospitalised for 3 days and had plenty of time to kill. was surfing news channels and checked Al -zajeera. Harami bandars were 100% anti india and trying to show atrocities upon minorities (as if barberians are very seculars). Would like to request PMO to start international news channel on the lines of RT (it is giving real hard time to established media gundas).

at least allow one thread for elections please....pretty please... :(( :((


We need one after Karnataka state elections.

Not having such a thread would take us back to ostrich days of UPA.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby krishna_krishna » 22 May 2018 03:30

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 263864.cms

"In a letter written to all parish priests in the capital, the Archbishop of Delhi, Anil Couto, asked for a prayer campaign to be launched and also appealed for fasting on Fridays ahead of the 2019 general elections.
Citing the “turbulent political atmosphere which poses a threat to the democratic principles enshrined in the Constitution and the secular fabric of our nation”, the letter says, “It is our hallowed practice to pray for our country and its political leaders all the time but all the more so when we approach the general elections.” “As we look forward towards 2019 when we will have new government let us begin a prayer campaign for our country,” states the letter."

So this has been happening before as well, like in massa country where in missionary schools before trump elections had sent advises to parents of the kids in their schools :

"The call for prayer for peace and free and fair elections happens before every election. It happened in 2014 and before that too.
Only this time a political colour is being deliberately given to the whole exercise by some people,” Father Rodrigues said."

"He also calls for an hour of special prayers -- “eucharistic adoration” -- every Friday at a convenient time in "all our parishes, religious houses and institutions specifically praying for our nation". The letter was accompanied with a special “prayer for our nation”, which says, “Let the dreams of our founding fathers and the values of our Constitution – equality, liberty and fraternity – be always held in highest esteem. Let the people of all castes and creeds, all denominations and persuasions live in harmony and peace steering far away from hatred and violence."

"The prayer further says, "Protect our legislature as a place of discerning minds. Raise our judiciary as the hallmark of integrity, prudence and justice. Keep our print, visual and social media as the channels of truth for edifying discourses. Protect our institutions from the infiltration of the evil forces.” The prayer also focuses on the poor and the marginalised, saying, “Let the poor of our country be provided with the means of livelihood. Let the dalits, tribals and the marginalised be brought into the mainstream of nation building. Let justice and integrity prevail in every sphere of our life.”"

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 24 May 2018 21:58

X-poting....
krishna_krishna wrote:I do not want to comment on character/ caliber of (anti Indian) Dulat and anti-india hatred of Durrani as any other chief who hold that position( one just needs to see his Oxford interview on how typical paki he is) . Irrespective of what fiction they wrote, two important things came out from the interviews that was thrown open :

1) Ladden was served on a platter to massa by eye - ass - eye , once they found out he was hiding in where. But it would be interesting to investigate what porkis got in return. See url below at the end :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWMuaTW ... e=youtu.be

2) Massa and Britishtan have revived their interest in valley again as they see opportunities in this (will obvious have porkis in the mix with them on this operation) at 20:00 onwards

3) This is idea from track thoo (which dulat is also part of) is from a chap named Peter Jones of Univ. of Ottawa seems to be a big conduit of western player to influence events, especially coming 2019 elections. Here is a brief what was on the net on this guy :

At 1:44 onwards this was proposed at meeting in Istanbul :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4_mwCyEOiI

Associate Professor Peter Jones, published Track Two Diplomacy in Theory and Practice, distributed by Stanford University Press.

Description

Track Two diplomacy consists of informal dialogues among actors such as academics, religious leaders, retired senior officials, and NGO officials that can bring new ideas and new relationships to the official process of diplomacy.

Sadly, those involved in official diplomacy often have little understanding of and appreciation for the complex and nuanced role that Track Two can play, or for its limitations. And many Track Two practitioners are often unaware of the realities and pressures of the policy and diplomatic worlds, and not particularly adept at framing their efforts to make them accessible to hard-pressed officials. At the same time, those interested in the academic study of Track Two sometimes fail to understand the realities faced by either set of practitioners.

A need therefore exists for a work to bridge the divides between these constituencies and between the different types of Track Two practice—and this book crosses disciplines and traditions in order to do just that. It explores the various dimensions and guises of Track Two, the theory and practice of how they work, and how both practitioners and academics could more profitably assess Track Two. Overall, it provides a comprehensive picture of the range of activities pursued under this title, to provoke new thinking about how these activities relate to each other, to official diplomacy, and to academe.

Author

Peter Jones is Associate Professor in the Graduate School of Public and International Affairs at the University of Ottawa, and an Annenberg Distinguished Visiting Fellow at the Hoover Institution.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 06 Jun 2018 21:20

X-posted...
kit wrote:
habal wrote:China is more insular, it has limits and has borders to its reach. India is theoritically without limits and can connect to europe as well as to east asians and to continental africa at same time. With South Americans we can get along like we are on fire. So India has a reach and aura that belies its size. This threatens USA and its narrative and the construct of artificiality that it builds to seek status of a global leader, whereas this comes all too easily and naturally to India. Thus it is India that is a civilizational competitor and not China.

Also 2025 is an important year for Pakistan where there is going to be partition of balochistan and USA feels like India should not be in a position of great advantage at that time so as to absorb balochistan into its fold and thus link up with middle east and India bordering Iran will put paid to their war plans in mid-east.

USA is a war economy which will find itself in major conflicts every few years. And their paranoia about India getting independent means a war is coming to our shores in a decade or two.

Anglo-saxons and judeo-christian whites are known to plan in advance by atleast a decade before venturing into major conflicts. This is derivedbfrom judaic cunning and fear of loss of face coupled with the frequent defeats that the templars had sufferes during crusades where they lost even from commanding positions. The british had spent 60 years getting to know the lay of the land in India before they would militarize the east india company.

net net we should go for full ToT of S500 and seek serial production of both pantsyr and S500. Almaz Antey should set up second line in India so that we flood the world with the S500


Beautifully articulated . India was at one time literally the centre of world commerce, industry and thought. If history repeats would it be naive to not believe that ? .

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 06 Jun 2018 21:22

The last line needs some reflection to bring about.
1) What were the factors that allowed India to be the center of world commerce, industry, and thought over the millennium from 200 AD to 1200 AD?

2) What made the factors null and void?
3) What do we need to bring them back?

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby RoyG » 07 Jun 2018 09:26

Russia and China are challenging the US technologically, militarily, and economically.

India is challenging the US philosophically.

Russia, China, and the US don't want India as a future competitor.

What to do?

Play all three.

In the meantime provide:

1) Political Stability
2) Production-Consumption model (Swadeshi)
3) National integration through common standards, philosophy, language, infra, and technology
4) Research and reviving gurukul system
5) Health (Yoga and Meditation should be mandatory for all students)
6) Environmental Protection
7) Military

Presently, gov is doing some of this however political stability needs to be sorted out before we can complete any of the rest.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby Misra » 11 Jun 2018 08:10

ramana wrote:The last line needs some reflection to bring about.
1) What were the factors that allowed India to be the center of world commerce, industry, and thought over the millennium from 200 AD to 1200 AD?

2) What made the factors null and void?
3) What do we need to bring them back?


1) stretches of time, spanning centuries at a time, where the quotidian survival of indians was more or less assured. with survival out of the way indians chose to turn inward to explore consciousness and the result was fantastic innovation in all spheres of life

2) stretches of time, spanning centuries at a time, where survival was threatened and became the primary concern for indians. they became insular (not by choice) and lost the ability to first sustain and then initiate innovation

over the next few decades, prosperity and technology may enable more and more indians to think beyond survival once again. indians need to avoid the experience of the west given similar conditions. individuals in the west—once freed from the shackles of the church and allowed some latitude of thought—mistook freedom of thought to be the greatest human condition. so intellect was eulogized. to the detriment of all life. however, indians realized that the intellect was but one small aspect of the mind—a survival tool—and developed elaborate methods to harness the mind beyond the intellect. so:
3) need to invest widely in infrastructure to develop conscious human beings. need to begin as soon as possible so as to be in sync with rising prosperity—before (like in the west) prosperous but unbalanced people turn to chemicals to make sense of their existence (in one recent study, in the US 1 in 8 of all adults and 1 in 4 adults below 30 years of age could be diagnosed as alcoholic). that would be the greatest disaster for a rapidly developing india (and, therefore, for the planet)

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby krishna_krishna » 11 Jun 2018 08:36

I am posting this, sorry to divert into another direction but I believe it is in Indian interest to know which insiders are hell bend on selling Indian interests. Mods please move to another one if inappropriate here or we need another thread on track 2 conspiracy :

Guys remember "Adarsh" scam for the kargil widows, a general who was kingpin in that scam see what he is into and how this ties to MMS , luteyans goons and VKS:

"The IPSI is represented by retired defence personnel of India and Pakistan, who are gunning for peace, disengagement and rapprochement through meetings, events and talks with influential leaders of both nations. Asking them to get over the trust deficit and end the animosity. The organization strives to keep both countries engaged in a progressive dialogue and initiate people-to-people contacts.

These military stalwarts who once roared commands at the warfront are today crusaders of peace, strongly condemning war and chanting the mantra for peace. Trying to evince the rich dividends that lie in a peaceful coexistence, which hold the promise of progress and prosperity.

Post Retirement, Gen Tej Kaul has been the lead functionary for various initiatives of the IPSI. Mani Shankar Aiyar, former Minister and MP, is its current Chairperson. Lt Gen Moti Dar, the former Vice Chief of Army, is the ongoing President of the IPSI India Chapter, while Lt General Mohd Nasir Akhtar is the ongoing President of the IPSI Pakistan Chapter. Maj Gen T Kaul is the current Executive President of the IPSI India Chapter.

The IPSI suffered a blow with the demise of Nirmala Deshpande, but lumbered on in its mission despite facing setbacks. With able leaders such as Maj Gen Tej Kaul being the linchpins.

Maj Gen Kaul, along with the IPSI chapters in India and Pakistan has always been vociferous in their condemnations of acts of violence that thwart the peace process between both countries.

A peace march, which was organized by the Executive President of the IPSI India chapter, Maj Gen TK Kaul, saw representation from the IPSI Pakistan chapter. This march started at Nariman Point in Mumbai and ended at Mani Bhavan, the historic residence of India’s greatest freedom fighter.

With its members growing in numbers, the IPSI is one, well-knit family consisting of citizens of both countries, demonstrating the love and bonding that they share despite their cultural and political diversities. They also go across the border to attend the marriages of the children of their counterparts."

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 12 Jun 2018 05:10

I pointed out to an expatriate Indian that The Hindu, India's national paper was neither Hindu nor nationalist.
Its a far cry from its image in the 80s when he was familiar with it.

He said he to noticed a change but couldn't put his finger and agreed with me that description fits them very well.
He is a doctor and reads Indian media occasionally. Hence his not being in touch.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby Rudradev » 21 Jun 2018 04:40

Excellent talk by Abhinav Prakash Singh for the Srijan Foundation.

He lays out a roadmap for the future course of Indian Conservatism. In so doing, he challenges quite a few of the notions that have characterized large segments of RW thought in the past and present... pointing out why they could be ultimately self-defeating.


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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 24 Jul 2018 03:49

Around 2013 time frame we had a series of sketches that showed the Mughal dynasty and had Nehru, Indira and Rajiv on it.
If anyone has a copy please posts here.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby krishna_krishna » 24 Jul 2018 04:52

ramana wrote:Around 2013 time frame we had a series of sketches that showed the Mughal dynasty and had Nehru, Indira and Rajiv on it.
If anyone has a copy please posts here.


R garu, here you go :

https://radhikaranjan.blogspot.com/2014 ... -1931.html

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 27 Jul 2018 21:53

Thanks for the link. However it does not have the sketches of the Mughals but has that flowchart only. Unless I need to dig deep.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 11 Aug 2018 02:07

A reprisal of PVNR by Sunanda Datta Ray

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... southerner

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 11 Aug 2018 08:21

My tweet on Partition.

Correct. They feared the Mackinder World Island being formed under Soviet Union and created a buffer beholden to them. After Cold War ended Pak was abandoned but weak Indian leadership could not take advantage. Put the 1990s in this context. All those Front govts, weak Congress.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 13 Aug 2018 06:53

Recent WAVES 2018 Conference in Dallas, Texas.

https://twitter.com/ramana_brf/status/1 ... 74113?s=19

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 13 Aug 2018 09:34

https://indianexpress.com/article/lifes ... 5-5302687/

A titan of literature. V.S Naipaul, passes away.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 27 Aug 2018 18:24

Former Army Lt. Gen. refutes Rahul Gandhi drivel on Dokhlam.

https://twitter.com/IndiaToday/status/1 ... 01765?s=19

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ArjunPandit » 27 Aug 2018 18:46

I think modi is letting these non-issues (rafale) & dokalam build up just to have these guys an egg on their faces

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby Vips » 05 Sep 2018 04:00

India convinces RCEP members to commit on easing worker movement.

In a significant breakthrough in the ongoing negotiations of the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), India has convinced the 15 partner countries, including the 10-member ASEAN, to agree to binding commitments in the area of easing movement of workers and professionals in the region.

India, however, agreed to take on commitments to reduce or eliminate tariffs on a larger number of goods than what it had earlier proposed. This, however, is subject to the condition that it is given the flexibility to get around its sensitivities (by taking on less onerous commitments to be implemented over a longer period) with countries with which it does not have bilateral free trade pacts, including China, Australia and New Zealand.

“We have said that the RCEP is not a goods partnership alone. It is an economic partnership...(that) envisages that services should be an integral part of trade,” Commerce Minister Suresh Prabhu told a media gathering here on Tuesday.

Once concluded, the RCEP is likely to result in the largest free trade bloc in the world covering about 3.5 billion people and 30 per cent of the world’s GDP.

Last week, Prabhu attended a Trade Ministers’ meeting of RCEP countries in Bangkok, where a number of crucial decisions were taken.

He said that while there will be substantial negotiations in the next couple of months, the talks will not conclude in 2018 but continue in 2019.

The 16 Trade Ministers, however, agreed on reaching a package of deliverables by the end of 2018 which could have a number of elements including goods, services and rules of origin.

“There is no agreement yet on what the package of deliverables will include but there is an overwhelming feeling amongst RCEP members that there should be some sort of an agreement by the RCEP Summit in November in areas where there has been a progress in negotiations,” an official told BusinessLine.

In services, so far, RCEP members have not agreed to taking on binding agreements on Mode 4, which includes rules guiding movement of natural persons or workers. There was, especially, major reluctance from small countries such as Singapore, New Zealand and Brunei. However, with India sticking to its argument that it doesn’t make sense to have an agreement in goods without anything substantial in services, things changed for the better at the Bangkok meeting on August 30-31.

“All RCEP members have agreed to give their binding offers on easing movement of workers by October 10. These will be evaluated and further requests would be made till an agreement is reached,” the official said.

What remains to be seen though is the quality of offers in services made by member countries in the area.

In the area of goods, India agreed to move beyond its offer made at the meeting in Cebu (in 2016) where it had proposed to eliminate tariffs on 86 per cent of items for the ASEAN, Japan and South Korea and 74 per cent for China, New Zealand and Australia.

It, however, impressed upon RCEP members of its need to hold bilateral discussions with China, New Zealand and Australia so that it could protect a larger number of items from tariff cuts and elimination depending on the negotiations.

“RCEP members have now agreed to bilaterals with certain countries. We can have carve-outs to protect sensitive commodities and have longer implementation periods for tariff elimination for certain items from certain countries. This can be as long as twenty years or even more,” the official said. (All credit to the Namo administration if this is achieved. Pappu and the high command following psychophants would have gladly sold us out and damaged India's interests)

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby krishna_krishna » 15 Sep 2018 02:50

Posting Col. Lalit Rai's interview (From kargil fame) he talks few important points regarding Indian interests :

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... i-3069381/

ANOJ MORE: How do you define surgical strikes?

If a body has tumour, how is it removed? It is done so with various surgical methods or radiation. It means whatever be the target-the tumor in the body or in this case the terrorist camps-it has to be removed without causing any damage to the rest of the body or surroundings. Hence, the soldiers are sent to a specific point either by helicopter or by secret routes without causing any damage on the way. The militants are targeted, and you exfiltrate troops without causing any collateral damage. Now, the exfiltration is tricky here, as the element of surprise, which is there at the time of attack, is now lost. So, others in the team divert the attention of the main target by striking the smaller targets while the troops come back.

MANOJ MORE: This involves crossing the border or LoC…

Yes it does. People have gone across even in the past and have hit targets. But in this case, there are differences. First, the very dynamic nature of the targets. They keep moving. If militants have been launched from one camp today, the same will not be used again. Also the size of targets, the level of support, the number of troops, the depth to which the troops have entered is of a different level in this case. We have done it in Myanmar of late. The distance of two to three kilometre is not small when you are in the enemy territory. It is through minefields, barbed wire, obstacles and enemy vigil.

ANURADHA MASCARENHAS: It is being said that political mileage is being taken by the Modi government out of this?

The government said they would do it and they have done it. The due credit must be given. Personally, one may not be happy or agree with so many things the government does, but on this subject, we need to be objective. The government declared it, gave a mandate to the Army and followed through while the Army delivered it. It takes guts for that. Things could have gone wrong.

MANOJ MORE: What do you make of certain parties like Congress to AAP raising questions?

It is stupid. When the announcement has been made, it is at the level of the Director General of Military Operations. He is the most important man as far as the military operations are concerned, the country must trust him. The Army is not a political party. Every army action is an extension of the political will of the country’s democratic leadership. The Army will never take arbitrary or unilateral action. We are an Army of a democratic country.

SUSHANT KULKARNI: Can you give us an outline of the preparations that are required for such strikes?

When the war is not on, we are constantly preparing ourselves through war-gaming exercises. We are constantly studying theories, maps, terrain, weather, enemy tactics, satellite images etc. We rehearse every day. Like they say, sweat during training avoids blood during war. We have hundreds of contingencies for battle scenarios. The strike, like the latest one, needs months of preparation. But because of years of preparation, we could do it in within two-three days, when the nation needed it and the leader gave the mandate for it. When you are entering the enemy territory, even one small mistake, even one of their sentry being aware of your presence can jeopardise the operation. So you can imagine how much was at stake.

SUNANDA MEHTA: Do you think the answer is going to end this? Because the rhetoric and thumping continues. Do you, as an Army man, think this will escalate into something bigger?

We teach our men that when you target the enemy, don’t target his physical form, his posts or position, target his mind. If you kill the enemy’s mind, the war is over. But to kill his mind, we have to do something spectacular. So today, when we are dealing with Pakistan, we are only treating the symptom. We are not treating the disease. The symptom is Pakistan and the disease is China.

GARIMA MISHRA: Some politicians are demanding that the footage of the surgical strike be made public. What’s your opinion?

If you will keep reacting to the propaganda, there’s no end to it. It should be made public but now is not the right time. It should be made public at the right time, in a right way. Don’t react to the propaganda now because if you start reacting to what Kejriwal and others, you will actually give in to the propaganda.

ANURADHA MASCARENHAS: Can you elaborate on China’s role?

The larger interest of China is supremacy in the region. But the real reason is economic. Its large part is landlocked, except the South China Sea. So they came up with the grand idea of CPEC– China Pakistan Economic Corridor. It is from the Xinjiang region in China to the Gwadar port in Pakistan. That gives them access to Arabian Sea. All the oil from Middle East will come in here. And at one-sixth the distance, consider what tremendous economic advantage they will get. China is already exploiting resources from almost half of Africa. All those resources can now come to them at a very low cost. Today, they have to take a long sea route. CPEC is a grand idea but here there are issues. It comes through the mountain ranges through Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir, a region held by Pakistan belonging to India, hence, the dispute. It goes down to Gwadar port, through Balochistan, which is a problem for Pakistan. That is why China is stopping our bid for security council, China is supporting Pakistan. Other big issue is the South China Sea, where they are currently receiving the resources from Africa, and the route passes through the sea choke point. There is theory that the world controlled by the choke points. One of them is the Malacca Strait, which is between Sumatra and Malaysia. China wants to control these routes by expanding its naval influence and the US does not want this to happen.

So the countries in this area, which were earlier peaceful, are now militarising. So it is a geopolitical game, it is about strategy, positioning and control. What we have with Pakistan is one issue that will arise from this geopolitical game. In politics, there are no permanent friends and in diplomacy, no enemies – the only thing permanent remains national interest. It’s the same with the US. Today, we are convenient; we are good friends for them. But sometime ago, it was Pakistan.

SUSHANT KULKARNI: There has been some infrastructure development and military upgrading in the Eastern theatre along the border with China. Where do we stand as compared to China when it comes to military power?

Their defence spending is three times ours. Their force much larger but so is their area. Another important issue with China is the Aksai Chin. It constitutes about eight per cent of the total area of Jammu and Kashmir on the east side. Back in 1949-50 China attacked and occupied the peaceful country Tibet, which shared boundaries with India. Hardly, anyone made a noise. But now, to reach Tibet they have made a road through Aksai Chin, which is considered to be an engineering marvel, can reach Tibet by road and railroad.

CHANDAN HAYGUNDE: Now after the surgical strike and India having given a message to Pakistan, do you think Pakistan will stop the terror activities or escalate them? Are we prepared for such terror strikes?

I would like to point one thing out. Internal security is not just the duty of military, paramilitary forces or police. It is also the responsibility of people. A terrorist striking within our country, cannot survive without local support. Every citizen has to be responsible enough to make sure that they do not get local support. So it’s not just the Army or police, it’s every person’s duty to make sure that terrorists do not get local support in terms of money, logistics or even people actually helping them.

SUNANDA MEHTA: How can we tackle the issue of terrorists getting local support from local villagers along the border?

That support is not very big but a small proportion of the population keeps making noise. There are other people who do not want to support the terrorists or separatists. Some people do it because of threats to their life. Terrorists come with guns, torture women in front of family members. And why are separatist leaders supported by our own politicians?

CHANDAN HAYGUNDE: There is a debate on whether to allow Pakistani artistes in India. What is your take on it?

Why just art, humanity too has no boundaries. But there are sentiments which are running high. There are people who are dying at the border. I believe, our fundamental rights have limits and that is the sovereignty of the nation. Sometimes, I feel our nation has been too much of a
soft state. This softness is at times misunderstood as weakness. So this surgical strike has proved to some extent that we are not weak.

GARIMA MISHRA: Is it the first time that the Army has got such strong support from the Central government?

To a large extent, yes. Though I have not witnessed what support they have got but from whatever I have seen and observed, I feel yes, they have got a strong support from the Central government. However, I feel that in circumstances such as these, Army officials are made ‘in-charge’. But once the work is done, his presence is questioned. There’s an old poem which says, ‘In times of war and not before/God and the soldier we adore/But in times of peace and all things righted/God is forgotten and the soldier slighted.’

MANOJ MORE: There is also a threat of nuclear arms? How do you look at it?

Have you heard about the air defence systems like Pradyumna and Ashwin. These are anti-missile systems. When a missile fired from an enemy country, there are radars which detect them, command and control is activated and then these air defence systems are launched to destroy the missile midair. India has signed the no-first-use treaty, Pakistan has not.

MANOJ MORE: Tell us your Kargil story.

They had captured a mountain in the Batalik sector and we had to get back the centre point of it. We were being fired upon every day.

Advancing even an inch was not possible. That was the time when I volunteered on behalf of my battalion. I did not know, whether I would come back alive. I took 600 people with me and decided to attack from behind. We passed through intense fire, -32 degrees temperature, heavy snowfall, extreme altitude. Every time a soldier was hit, I would put him on my lap and say sorry, and that I have to move ahead. By the time we reached there, there were eight of us and the rest were left behind or died. No sleep, no water no food. We fought for three nights and four days. My general officer asked me to return, because even I had a bullet injury. But I refused to do so. We finally managed to capture the point and others back. After this, people ask why does one join the Army, it saddens me

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 26 Sep 2018 10:12

Long ago our members pointed this out about #Bollywood is really #Brothelwood. Here an actress saying same thing.

https://twitter.com/ZoomTV/status/10445 ... 06624?s=19

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby krishna_krishna » 21 Oct 2018 07:07

Posting this video from AB Vajapee, some context to India- afghan relations, India's muslim/central asian invaders and Martial race theory peddeled by birtsh@t to divide Indian society and weaken the dharmics :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQf4ZwE2Itc

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 30 Oct 2018 07:01

Old Dated post from GDF quite relevant as judiciary is being discussed.

A few background reading materials:

1) Treaty of Westphalia (TOW)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_of_Westphalia



The main tenets of the Peace of Westphalia were:
All parties would recognize the Peace of Augsburg of 1555, in which each prince would have the right to determine the religion of his own state, the options being Catholicism, Lutheranism, and now Calvinism (the principle of cuius regio, eius religio).[11][12]
Christians living in principalities where their denomination was not the established church were guaranteed the right to practice their faith in public during allotted hours and in private at their will.[15]
General recognition of the exclusive sovereignty of each party over its lands, people, and agents abroad, and responsibility for the warlike acts of any of its citizens or agents. Issuance of unrestricted letters of marque and reprisal to privateers was forbidden.
....
The treaty did not entirely end conflicts arising out of the Thirty Years' War. Fighting continued between France and Spain until the Treaty of the Pyrenees in 1659. Nevertheless, it did settle many outstanding European issues of the time. Some of the principles developed at Westphalia, especially those relating to respecting the boundaries of sovereign states and non-interference in their domestic affairs, became central to the world order that developed over the following centuries, and remain in effect today.


It ended the Thirty years War in 1648

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War
The Thirty Years' War was a series of wars in Central Europe between 1618 and 1648. It was one of the longest and most destructive conflicts in European history,[16] and the deadliest European religious war, resulting in eight million casualties.

Initially a war between various Protestant and Catholic states in the fragmented Holy Roman Empire, it gradually developed into a more general conflict involving most of the great powers.
These states employed relatively large mercenary armies, and the war became less about religion and more of a continuation of the France–Habsburg rivalry for European political pre-eminence. In the 17th century, religious beliefs and practices were a much larger influence on an average European than they are today. During that era, almost everyone was vested on one side of the dispute or another.

The war began when the newly elected Holy Roman Emperor, Ferdinand II, tried to impose religious uniformity on his domains, forcing Roman Catholicism on its peoples. The northern Protestant states, angered by the violation of their rights to choose that had been granted in the Peace of Augsburg, banded together to form the Protestant Union. Ferdinand II was a devout Roman Catholic and relatively intolerant when compared to his predecessor, Rudolf II. His policies were considered heavily pro-Catholic.

These events caused widespread fears throughout northern and central Europe, and triggered the Protestant Bohemians living in the dominion of Habsburg Austria to revolt against their nominal ruler, Ferdinand II. They ousted the Habsburgs and instead elected Frederick V, Elector of the Rhenish Palatinate as their monarch. Frederick took the offer without the support of the union. The southern states, mainly Roman Catholic, were angered by this. Led by Bavaria, these states formed the Catholic League to expel Frederick in support of the Emperor. The Empire soon crushed this perceived rebellion in the Battle of White Mountain, but the Protestant world condemned the Emperor's action.

After the atrocities committed in Bohemia, Saxony finally gave its support to the union and decided to fight back. Sweden, at the time a major military power, soon intervened in 1630 under the great general Gustavus Adolphus and started the full-scale great war on the continent. Spain, wishing to finally crush the Dutch rebels in the Netherlands and the Dutch Republic, intervened under the pretext of helping its dynastic Habsburg ally, Austria. No longer able to tolerate the encirclement of two major Habsburg powers on its borders, Catholic France entered the coalition on the side of the Protestants in order to counter the Habsburgs.

The Thirty Years' War devastated entire regions, with famine and disease significantly decreasing the populations of the German and Italian states, the Crown of Bohemia, and the Southern Netherlands. Both mercenaries and soldiers in fighting armies were expected to fund themselves by looting or extorting tribute, which imposed severe hardships on the inhabitants of occupied territories. The war also bankrupted most of the combatant powers. The Dutch Republic enjoyed contrasting fortune; it ended its revolt against Spain in 1648 and subsequently enjoyed a time of great prosperity and development in which it became one of the world's foremost economic and naval powers. The Thirty Years' War ended with the treaties of Osnabrück and Münster, part of the wider Peace of Westphalia. The war altered the previous political order of European powers. The rise of Bourbon France, the curtailing of Habsburg ambition, and the ascendancy of Sweden as a great power created a new balance of power on the continent, with France emerging from the war strengthened and increasingly dominant in the latter part of the 17th century.


In short it limited the power of the Pope and ushered in secular Europe.

But how was the Pope's power curtailed?

Leads us to the Concordat of Worms (COW)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordat_of_Worms

The Concordat of Worms (Latin: Concordatum Wormatiense),[1] sometimes called the Pactum Calixtinum by papal historians,[a] was an agreement between Pope Calixtus II and Holy Roman Emperor Henry V on September 23, 1122 near the city of Worms. It brought to an end the first phase of the power struggle between the Papacy and the Holy Roman Emperors and has been interpreted as containing within itself the germ of nation-based sovereignty that would one day be confirmed in the Treaty of Westphalia (1648); in part this was an unforeseen result of strategic maneuvering between the Church and the European sovereigns over political control within their domains. The King was recognised as having the right to invest bishops with secular authority ("by the lance") in the territories they governed, but not with sacred authority ("by ring and staff"); the result was that bishops owed allegiance in worldly matters both to the pope and to the king, for they were obligated to affirm the right of the sovereign to call upon them for military support, under his oath of fealty. Previous Holy Roman Emperors had thought it their right, granted by God, to name Church officials within their territories (such as bishops) and to confirm the Papal election (and, at times of extraordinary urgency, actually name popes). In fact, the Emperors had been heavily relying on bishops for their secular administration, as they were not hereditary or quasi-hereditary nobility with family interests, thus adding further suspense to the struggle. A more immediate result of the Investiture struggle identified a proprietary right that adhered to sovereign territory, recognising the right of kings to income from the territory of a vacant diocese and a basis for justifiable taxation. These rights lay outside feudalism, which defined authority in a hierarchy of personal relations, with only a loose relation to territory.[4] The pope emerged as a figure above and out of the direct control of the Holy Roman Emperor.

Following efforts by Lamberto Scannabecchi (later Pope Honorius II) and the Diet of Würzburg (1121) in 1122, Pope Calixtus II and Holy Roman Emperor Henry V entered into an agreement that effectively ended the Investiture Controversy. [b]By the terms of the agreement, the election of bishops and abbots in Germany was to take place in the emperor's presence as judge between potentially disputing parties, free of bribes, thus retaining to the emperor a crucial role in choosing these great territorial magnates of the Empire. Beyond the borders of Germany, in Burgundy and Italy, the Emperor was to forward the symbols of authority within six months.
Calixtus' reference to the feudal homage due the emperor on appointment is guarded: "shall do unto thee for these what he rightfully should" was the wording of the privilegium granted by Calixtus. The Emperor's right to a substantial imbursement on the election of a bishop or abbot was specifically denied.

The Emperor renounced the right to invest ecclesiastics with ring and crosier, the symbols of their spiritual power, and guaranteed election by the canons of cathedral or abbey and free consecration. The two ended by granting one another peace.

The Concordat was confirmed by the First Council of the Lateran in 1123.

The Concordat of Worms was a part of the larger reforms put forth by many popes, most notably Pope Gregory VII. These included celibacy of the clergy, end of simony and autonomy of the Church from secular leaders (lack of autonomy was known as lay investiture).
....


In other words the COW gave the Kings and Pope power to appoint bishops. TOW on the other hand by giving the right to freedom of religion thus limiting the right of external powers(Pope) to interfere (appoint bishops) in sovereign states ushered in Secular State.


So this is how the secular state came about.

Between COW and TOW, the kings ushered in various reforms to reduce the power(economic, judicial, political) of the Clergy in their domains.

In India the new Popes are the CJI.

The power is judicial power. Its now being expanded with leaps and bounds into other areas especially Hindu law.

In other words the Court is becoming non secular with respect to Hindus.

The Kings are the modern day politicians like NaMo who are in pre-COW state.

So how does India come up with its own COW and TOW?


What COW did is it reduced bishop appointments to a game theory. Let me explain.
In every bishopric, the Pope has a choice: 1) appoint a bishop favorable to himself, 2) neutral to him or the King, and 3) favorable to the King.
The King similarly could 1)accept the Pope appointment, 3) reject the appointment. He has two choices vs. three for the Pope. He could stall the choice hoping the Pope or the candidate leaves! But not a real choice all the time.

Mostly it was not the bishops but the bishoprics that decided the appointment.

If the bishopric had low economic value (in end its all about money) the king would accept the Pope's choice. If it was high value, the King would insist on his own choice!!! Pope would insist on is own choice there too. As the Pope was far away the appointments were neutral or favorable to Kings.
At same time the King would work to reduce the power of the most valuable bishopric!

So in India think of Judges as the secular Bishops. Now modern power is judicial power.
The least powerful to most powerful appointments range from State High Courts to Supreme Courts.
The Collegium is the College of Cardinals who are already out of secular or politician power.

So NaMo has to reduce judicial power by getting new laws passed which limit the power of the judges. For this he needs to get more of his own elected that is acquire political power. Same time he needs the Collegium throw up a suitable candidate.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 15 Nov 2018 04:12

X-posted from Economic Forum

Vips wrote:India’s BIMARU states developing but not catching up.

There’s very little evidence of convergence on social indicators among Indian states, new data on health, education and access to basic amenities between 1998-99 and 2015-16 shows. Over nearly two decades, the “BIMARU” states have remained at the bottom, while Kerala, Punjab, Goa and Delhi remain at the top. Bihar has remained India’s poorest state over the period.

The Multidimensional Poverty Index (MPI) is a relatively new composite index that seeks to fix some of the conceptual and statistical problems with United Nations Development Programme’s (UNDP) widely used Human Development Index (HDI). One major criticism of the HDI was that it is too strongly determined by its income component.

The MPI, created by Sabina Alkire and James Foster of the Oxford Poverty and Human Development Initiative, uses 10 indicators to measure poverty in three dimensions: education, health and living standards. If an individual is deprived in a third or more of ten weighted indicators, the index identifies them as poor, and the intensity of their poverty is measured by the number of deprivations they are experiencing.


In its 2018 update, India’s MPI index in 2018 was 0.121, placing it 53rd out of 105 developing countries for which data was available. Poor nutrition was the largest contributor to India’s multidimensional poverty while insufficient access to clean water and child mortality contributed the least. Relatively few people experienced deprivations in school attendance.

The number represented a vast improvement since 2005-06, the last time India made nationally representative health data available; since then, the incidence of multidimensional poverty has nearly halved with the poorest groups making the biggest leaps.

Yet, there are pockets of sub-Saharan poverty in India, and its poorest district (Alirajpur in Madhya Pradesh) has an MPI value worse than all but eight countries. Save for five (two in Gujarat and one each in Maharashtra, Assam and Haryana), all of the poorest 50 districts in the country are in the erstwhile BIMARU states—Bihar, Jharkhand, Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Rajasthan, Odisha and Uttar Pradesh—and 91 of the poorest 100 are concentrated in these seven states.

Prior to state elections these states, political leaders have sought to claim that because of their leadership, their state is no longer “BIMARU”.

While campaigning for Bihar in 2015 against the Janata Dal (United), or JDU, alliance, Prime Minister Narendra Modi declared that Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh were no longer “BIMARU” and Bihar needed the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). Both Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan’s chief ministers are currently campaigning on their states no longer being “BIMARU”.

Coined in the early 1980s by demographer Ashish Bose, the acronym was used for the northern states contributing significantly to India’s population explosion. In 2015, economist Vinita Sharma updated Bose’s analysis and found that while states had made progress individually, they had not converged with the southern states; in fact on half of the 13 indicators used in Bose’s analysis, they had diverged.

From 1998-99 to 2015-16, Bihar remained India’s multidimensionally poorest state. While Odisha was next to Bihar at the bottom in the late 1990s, it has improved significantly over the last two decades. In the same time, Madhya Pradesh (and later Chhattisgarh) and Uttar Pradesh joined Bihar (and later Jharkhand) at the bottom. Between them, Bihar and Uttar Pradesh have over 320 million multidimensionally poor people. Over half the population in Bihar, and over 40% in Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh are multidimensionally poor.

At the other end, just 1% of people in Kerala, and between 4 to 7% in Delhi, Punjab, Goa, Sikkim and Tamil Nadu are multidimensionally poor. The richest Indian states now resemble upper middle income countries like Jordan, Brazil, and Thailand in terms of multidimensional poverty.


Nor is there evidence that states are converging in terms of indicators or outcomes. The states with the highest reductions in their index values were the ones that were already better off, making real convergence that much further off. Kerala reduced its already-low levels of multidimensional poverty by 92%, the highest of any states, while Bihar was again at the bottom at 45%.



Lots of data to think it over.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 15 Nov 2018 04:15


ramana
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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 27 Nov 2018 22:56

Please reflect on this matter:
https://twitter.com/smita1900/status/10 ... 75776?s=19

What are the alternatives?
What are the pitfalls of the alternatives?
Is there a money laundering angle to the current choice?

Etc.Etc...


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