Indian Interests_2

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Varoon Shekhar
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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 25 Jan 2018 06:46

^

Really nice to hear about merchant guilds, and merchants in general. Too much of history, including Indian history of course, is consumed by writing about battles between one kingdom and another, and between one dynasty and another. This can get very dreary, considering the number of such conflicts spanning more than 2000 years!

Through all this, India must have had a robust economic life, with lots of merchants and trade going on all over the subcontinent. And some merchants venturing out to West, Central and East Asia, as well as parts of Africa and Europe.

It would be refreshing to read a concentrated history of this trade, and the beneficial effect on India. Right from say, 550 BCE( the time of the Buddha) to the arrival of the British. When was this trade at its highest, lowest, did merchants at any time enjoy power and prestige.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Jan 2018 17:58

Ram Madhav at Raisina Dialogue:
https://youtu.be/Cy0evZ56CPE?t=27m10s

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 26 Jan 2018 00:56

Varoon, Fernad Braudel wrote a few pages in is third volume of Civilization and Capitalism, "The Perspective of the world".

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ShauryaT » 26 Jan 2018 20:09

A_Gupta wrote:Ram Madhav at Raisina Dialogue:
https://youtu.be/Cy0evZ56CPE?t=27m10s
I was so wrong in my comments based on the initial reports of this Dialog. I have not seen any major Indian leader articulate a new vision for India, that sounds real, ambitious and absolutely correct for where we are and should be.

Ram Madhav says, we need to be an influential and willing to be a participative global leader. India will lead to its east, participate to our west. American model will not work. Was not comfortable with the words indo-pacific, new global frameworks that are Asian centric are needed. Strategic Autonomy remains an anchor, de-hyphenation ends. He was more comfortable with the words IOR - not INDO-PACIFIC!!!

Beautiful!!!!! Thanks - made my republic day.

The only downside, the forum was western-led Carnegie, US Dep. Sec, Aus DM and ORF (Ambani funded group) and moderated by someone, I do not think highly of.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby manju » 28 Jan 2018 20:16

ramana wrote:Ok the following links describe what Pullekesi was referring to:

1) Manigramam
Kerala coastal merchant guild
: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manigramam

2) Aihole/ Ayaavolu
Aihole merchant guild during Chalukyas of Badami

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Hund ... f_Ayyavolu

3)Ainnurruvar
Merchant guild from 8th to 13th century. Mainly Choal time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainnurruvar

4) Bonus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_gui ... outh_India


5)Archaeology of sea faring in South Asia] Cambridge History series

6)

[url=https://books.google.com/booksid=tjXdDYChdGsC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=Ayyavole&source=bl&ots=-3MUcZ8TLC&sig=jdoOwMqU00OHu-ofwlZbdwJq7Uo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-quH22fHYAhVJRqwKHfARDUUQ6AEIQzAE#v=onepage&q=Ayyavole&f=false]Trading world of the Tamil merchant


This one has nice cover.


I read this book (referred to by a BR member here).. enjoyed it.. a good read..

Caravans: Punjabi Khatri Merchants on the Silk Road

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby manju » 28 Jan 2018 20:25

Varoon Shekhar wrote:^

Really nice to hear about merchant guilds, and merchants in general. Too much of history, including Indian history of course, is consumed by writing about battles between one kingdom and another, and between one dynasty and another. This can get very dreary, considering the number of such conflicts spanning more than 2000 years!

Through all this, India must have had a robust economic life, with lots of merchants and trade going on all over the subcontinent. And some merchants venturing out to West, Central and East Asia, as well as parts of Africa and Europe.

It would be refreshing to read a concentrated history of this trade, and the beneficial effect on India. Right from say, 550 BCE( the time of the Buddha) to the arrival of the British. When was this trade at its highest, lowest, did merchants at any time enjoy power and prestige.


Need to research these more. May offer some lessons for the present day world.. some new models for financing, etc.

In our village

- Every year about 100 people walk to Mantralayam (about 100 km). The whole trip last for 5 days. 2.5 days walking, 2 days at Mantralayam (http://www.mantralayam.com) and return is by bust, etc.. I walked this year (first time) and it was good experience

The onward travel (including food, water, etc.. the people walking are serviced better than in professional long distance races!!) and the stay at Mantralayam is mostly funded by the well to do people who contribute money to a pool. Every year (on some set day), the accounts are settled. People can borrow from the corpus fund but MUST return it at the end of year with interest- which is used for expenses to fund the YATRA and the rest is added to the corpus fund.

- Similarly, a small fund is set up for a temple.. the corpus fund is loaned out..

so far no defaulter... I doubt there will be becuase

- social pressure if default.
- also money belongs to the temple for for a holy purpose... etc

I have read similar things that some of the guilds must have operated similarly in temples.. etc

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 29 Jan 2018 08:30

Minhaz Merchant has very good article

https://twitter.com/MinhazMerchant/stat ... 7845565442

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 07 Feb 2018 11:16


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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby rsingh » 08 Feb 2018 22:15

I do not like to post on B Ganarajya. May I request admins to add a GD dhaga here? I am sure there are other posters like me.
Anyway , I was hospitalised for 3 days and had plenty of time to kill. was surfing news channels and checked Al -zajeera. Harami bandars were 100% anti india and trying to show atrocities upon minorities (as if barberians are very seculars). Would like to request PMO to start international news channel on the lines of RT (it is giving real hard time to established media gundas).

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 14 Feb 2018 17:55

Yagnasri:
For all the Gurus of Mumbai and elsewhere- We have a meeting on the 17th Feb on Rakhine Hindus and the Genocide on them by Rohingya Muslims. Venue D G Khaithan Auditorium Sundar Nagar, Malad West Mumbai at 5 PM. It is a three hour program. Please do attend. In case you are not a local of Mumbai, please do inform the program to any like minded person/s in Mumbai and request them to attend. While efforts are on toe make MSM coverage, we have also engaged professional video person and the program will be upload on Youtube. We can make it reach wider sections of the societyby Social media. Jai Hind.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby IndraD » 15 Feb 2018 00:23

rsingh wrote:I do not like to post on B Ganarajya. May I request admins to add a GD dhaga here? I am sure there are other posters like me.
Anyway , I was hospitalised for 3 days and had plenty of time to kill. was surfing news channels and checked Al -zajeera. Harami bandars were 100% anti india and trying to show atrocities upon minorities (as if barberians are very seculars). Would like to request PMO to start international news channel on the lines of RT (it is giving real hard time to established media gundas).

at least allow one thread for elections please....pretty please... :(( :((

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby IndraD » 15 Feb 2018 17:24

Indian bank hit by $1.8bn fraud case http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43068039

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ShauryaT » 19 Feb 2018 21:58

"The state is the diseased part of our society." Put this guy on a pedestal and worship this nationalist should what a sane government should do as ABV did. How one needs to demarcate the role of the state, choose their leaders and the crisis of democracy. All I will say, traditional Indian systems have some answers if we can get off the western kool-aid.


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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 19 Feb 2018 23:01

IndraD wrote:
rsingh wrote:I do not like to post on B Ganarajya. May I request admins to add a GD dhaga here? I am sure there are other posters like me.
Anyway , I was hospitalised for 3 days and had plenty of time to kill. was surfing news channels and checked Al -zajeera. Harami bandars were 100% anti india and trying to show atrocities upon minorities (as if barberians are very seculars). Would like to request PMO to start international news channel on the lines of RT (it is giving real hard time to established media gundas).

at least allow one thread for elections please....pretty please... :(( :((


We need one after Karnataka state elections.

Not having such a thread would take us back to ostrich days of UPA.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby krishna_krishna » 22 May 2018 03:30

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 263864.cms

"In a letter written to all parish priests in the capital, the Archbishop of Delhi, Anil Couto, asked for a prayer campaign to be launched and also appealed for fasting on Fridays ahead of the 2019 general elections.
Citing the “turbulent political atmosphere which poses a threat to the democratic principles enshrined in the Constitution and the secular fabric of our nation”, the letter says, “It is our hallowed practice to pray for our country and its political leaders all the time but all the more so when we approach the general elections.” “As we look forward towards 2019 when we will have new government let us begin a prayer campaign for our country,” states the letter."

So this has been happening before as well, like in massa country where in missionary schools before trump elections had sent advises to parents of the kids in their schools :

"The call for prayer for peace and free and fair elections happens before every election. It happened in 2014 and before that too.
Only this time a political colour is being deliberately given to the whole exercise by some people,” Father Rodrigues said."

"He also calls for an hour of special prayers -- “eucharistic adoration” -- every Friday at a convenient time in "all our parishes, religious houses and institutions specifically praying for our nation". The letter was accompanied with a special “prayer for our nation”, which says, “Let the dreams of our founding fathers and the values of our Constitution – equality, liberty and fraternity – be always held in highest esteem. Let the people of all castes and creeds, all denominations and persuasions live in harmony and peace steering far away from hatred and violence."

"The prayer further says, "Protect our legislature as a place of discerning minds. Raise our judiciary as the hallmark of integrity, prudence and justice. Keep our print, visual and social media as the channels of truth for edifying discourses. Protect our institutions from the infiltration of the evil forces.” The prayer also focuses on the poor and the marginalised, saying, “Let the poor of our country be provided with the means of livelihood. Let the dalits, tribals and the marginalised be brought into the mainstream of nation building. Let justice and integrity prevail in every sphere of our life.”"

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 24 May 2018 21:58

X-poting....
krishna_krishna wrote:I do not want to comment on character/ caliber of (anti Indian) Dulat and anti-india hatred of Durrani as any other chief who hold that position( one just needs to see his Oxford interview on how typical paki he is) . Irrespective of what fiction they wrote, two important things came out from the interviews that was thrown open :

1) Ladden was served on a platter to massa by eye - ass - eye , once they found out he was hiding in where. But it would be interesting to investigate what porkis got in return. See url below at the end :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWMuaTW ... e=youtu.be

2) Massa and Britishtan have revived their interest in valley again as they see opportunities in this (will obvious have porkis in the mix with them on this operation) at 20:00 onwards

3) This is idea from track thoo (which dulat is also part of) is from a chap named Peter Jones of Univ. of Ottawa seems to be a big conduit of western player to influence events, especially coming 2019 elections. Here is a brief what was on the net on this guy :

At 1:44 onwards this was proposed at meeting in Istanbul :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4_mwCyEOiI

Associate Professor Peter Jones, published Track Two Diplomacy in Theory and Practice, distributed by Stanford University Press.

Description

Track Two diplomacy consists of informal dialogues among actors such as academics, religious leaders, retired senior officials, and NGO officials that can bring new ideas and new relationships to the official process of diplomacy.

Sadly, those involved in official diplomacy often have little understanding of and appreciation for the complex and nuanced role that Track Two can play, or for its limitations. And many Track Two practitioners are often unaware of the realities and pressures of the policy and diplomatic worlds, and not particularly adept at framing their efforts to make them accessible to hard-pressed officials. At the same time, those interested in the academic study of Track Two sometimes fail to understand the realities faced by either set of practitioners.

A need therefore exists for a work to bridge the divides between these constituencies and between the different types of Track Two practice—and this book crosses disciplines and traditions in order to do just that. It explores the various dimensions and guises of Track Two, the theory and practice of how they work, and how both practitioners and academics could more profitably assess Track Two. Overall, it provides a comprehensive picture of the range of activities pursued under this title, to provoke new thinking about how these activities relate to each other, to official diplomacy, and to academe.

Author

Peter Jones is Associate Professor in the Graduate School of Public and International Affairs at the University of Ottawa, and an Annenberg Distinguished Visiting Fellow at the Hoover Institution.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 06 Jun 2018 21:20

X-posted...
kit wrote:
habal wrote:China is more insular, it has limits and has borders to its reach. India is theoritically without limits and can connect to europe as well as to east asians and to continental africa at same time. With South Americans we can get along like we are on fire. So India has a reach and aura that belies its size. This threatens USA and its narrative and the construct of artificiality that it builds to seek status of a global leader, whereas this comes all too easily and naturally to India. Thus it is India that is a civilizational competitor and not China.

Also 2025 is an important year for Pakistan where there is going to be partition of balochistan and USA feels like India should not be in a position of great advantage at that time so as to absorb balochistan into its fold and thus link up with middle east and India bordering Iran will put paid to their war plans in mid-east.

USA is a war economy which will find itself in major conflicts every few years. And their paranoia about India getting independent means a war is coming to our shores in a decade or two.

Anglo-saxons and judeo-christian whites are known to plan in advance by atleast a decade before venturing into major conflicts. This is derivedbfrom judaic cunning and fear of loss of face coupled with the frequent defeats that the templars had sufferes during crusades where they lost even from commanding positions. The british had spent 60 years getting to know the lay of the land in India before they would militarize the east india company.

net net we should go for full ToT of S500 and seek serial production of both pantsyr and S500. Almaz Antey should set up second line in India so that we flood the world with the S500


Beautifully articulated . India was at one time literally the centre of world commerce, industry and thought. If history repeats would it be naive to not believe that ? .

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 06 Jun 2018 21:22

The last line needs some reflection to bring about.
1) What were the factors that allowed India to be the center of world commerce, industry, and thought over the millennium from 200 AD to 1200 AD?

2) What made the factors null and void?
3) What do we need to bring them back?

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby RoyG » 07 Jun 2018 09:26

Russia and China are challenging the US technologically, militarily, and economically.

India is challenging the US philosophically.

Russia, China, and the US don't want India as a future competitor.

What to do?

Play all three.

In the meantime provide:

1) Political Stability
2) Production-Consumption model (Swadeshi)
3) National integration through common standards, philosophy, language, infra, and technology
4) Research and reviving gurukul system
5) Health (Yoga and Meditation should be mandatory for all students)
6) Environmental Protection
7) Military

Presently, gov is doing some of this however political stability needs to be sorted out before we can complete any of the rest.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby Misra » 11 Jun 2018 08:10

ramana wrote:The last line needs some reflection to bring about.
1) What were the factors that allowed India to be the center of world commerce, industry, and thought over the millennium from 200 AD to 1200 AD?

2) What made the factors null and void?
3) What do we need to bring them back?


1) stretches of time, spanning centuries at a time, where the quotidian survival of indians was more or less assured. with survival out of the way indians chose to turn inward to explore consciousness and the result was fantastic innovation in all spheres of life

2) stretches of time, spanning centuries at a time, where survival was threatened and became the primary concern for indians. they became insular (not by choice) and lost the ability to first sustain and then initiate innovation

over the next few decades, prosperity and technology may enable more and more indians to think beyond survival once again. indians need to avoid the experience of the west given similar conditions. individuals in the west—once freed from the shackles of the church and allowed some latitude of thought—mistook freedom of thought to be the greatest human condition. so intellect was eulogized. to the detriment of all life. however, indians realized that the intellect was but one small aspect of the mind—a survival tool—and developed elaborate methods to harness the mind beyond the intellect. so:
3) need to invest widely in infrastructure to develop conscious human beings. need to begin as soon as possible so as to be in sync with rising prosperity—before (like in the west) prosperous but unbalanced people turn to chemicals to make sense of their existence (in one recent study, in the US 1 in 8 of all adults and 1 in 4 adults below 30 years of age could be diagnosed as alcoholic). that would be the greatest disaster for a rapidly developing india (and, therefore, for the planet)

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby krishna_krishna » 11 Jun 2018 08:36

I am posting this, sorry to divert into another direction but I believe it is in Indian interest to know which insiders are hell bend on selling Indian interests. Mods please move to another one if inappropriate here or we need another thread on track 2 conspiracy :

Guys remember "Adarsh" scam for the kargil widows, a general who was kingpin in that scam see what he is into and how this ties to MMS , luteyans goons and VKS:

"The IPSI is represented by retired defence personnel of India and Pakistan, who are gunning for peace, disengagement and rapprochement through meetings, events and talks with influential leaders of both nations. Asking them to get over the trust deficit and end the animosity. The organization strives to keep both countries engaged in a progressive dialogue and initiate people-to-people contacts.

These military stalwarts who once roared commands at the warfront are today crusaders of peace, strongly condemning war and chanting the mantra for peace. Trying to evince the rich dividends that lie in a peaceful coexistence, which hold the promise of progress and prosperity.

Post Retirement, Gen Tej Kaul has been the lead functionary for various initiatives of the IPSI. Mani Shankar Aiyar, former Minister and MP, is its current Chairperson. Lt Gen Moti Dar, the former Vice Chief of Army, is the ongoing President of the IPSI India Chapter, while Lt General Mohd Nasir Akhtar is the ongoing President of the IPSI Pakistan Chapter. Maj Gen T Kaul is the current Executive President of the IPSI India Chapter.

The IPSI suffered a blow with the demise of Nirmala Deshpande, but lumbered on in its mission despite facing setbacks. With able leaders such as Maj Gen Tej Kaul being the linchpins.

Maj Gen Kaul, along with the IPSI chapters in India and Pakistan has always been vociferous in their condemnations of acts of violence that thwart the peace process between both countries.

A peace march, which was organized by the Executive President of the IPSI India chapter, Maj Gen TK Kaul, saw representation from the IPSI Pakistan chapter. This march started at Nariman Point in Mumbai and ended at Mani Bhavan, the historic residence of India’s greatest freedom fighter.

With its members growing in numbers, the IPSI is one, well-knit family consisting of citizens of both countries, demonstrating the love and bonding that they share despite their cultural and political diversities. They also go across the border to attend the marriages of the children of their counterparts."

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 12 Jun 2018 05:10

I pointed out to an expatriate Indian that The Hindu, India's national paper was neither Hindu nor nationalist.
Its a far cry from its image in the 80s when he was familiar with it.

He said he to noticed a change but couldn't put his finger and agreed with me that description fits them very well.
He is a doctor and reads Indian media occasionally. Hence his not being in touch.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby Rudradev » 21 Jun 2018 04:40

Excellent talk by Abhinav Prakash Singh for the Srijan Foundation.

He lays out a roadmap for the future course of Indian Conservatism. In so doing, he challenges quite a few of the notions that have characterized large segments of RW thought in the past and present... pointing out why they could be ultimately self-defeating.


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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 24 Jul 2018 03:49

Around 2013 time frame we had a series of sketches that showed the Mughal dynasty and had Nehru, Indira and Rajiv on it.
If anyone has a copy please posts here.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby krishna_krishna » 24 Jul 2018 04:52

ramana wrote:Around 2013 time frame we had a series of sketches that showed the Mughal dynasty and had Nehru, Indira and Rajiv on it.
If anyone has a copy please posts here.


R garu, here you go :

https://radhikaranjan.blogspot.com/2014 ... -1931.html

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 27 Jul 2018 21:53

Thanks for the link. However it does not have the sketches of the Mughals but has that flowchart only. Unless I need to dig deep.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 11 Aug 2018 02:07

A reprisal of PVNR by Sunanda Datta Ray

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... southerner

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 11 Aug 2018 08:21

My tweet on Partition.

Correct. They feared the Mackinder World Island being formed under Soviet Union and created a buffer beholden to them. After Cold War ended Pak was abandoned but weak Indian leadership could not take advantage. Put the 1990s in this context. All those Front govts, weak Congress.

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby ramana » 13 Aug 2018 06:53

Recent WAVES 2018 Conference in Dallas, Texas.

https://twitter.com/ramana_brf/status/1 ... 74113?s=19

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Re: Indian Interests_2

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 13 Aug 2018 09:34

https://indianexpress.com/article/lifes ... 5-5302687/

A titan of literature. V.S Naipaul, passes away.


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