Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby mmasand » 27 May 2019 01:20

I can vouch, I live in a country where a non-immigrant visa has been issued for 99 years to Indians in particular for their contribution to society and trade. I believe there was a reciprocal arrangement prior to the 70's where several Indians moved to the UK under the previous Commonwealth resettlement scheme, a fair few Anglo-Indians and those who held British Overseas Territory passports moved to India.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby g.sarkar » 27 May 2019 03:35

Suraj wrote:Which major economy allows an endlessly renewable non immigrant work visa status ?


Germany, which is a major economy, issues endlessly renewable work visa, with no automatic path to citizenship. I lived there for 8 years, though I do not claim to be a specialist on immigration there. There are two catagories (for non-EEC citizens, including Indians): Unbefristetaufenthaltserlaubnis and Aufenthaltsberechtigung. The first can be cancelled at will, the second gives some rights of appeal. Germans did not believe in granting citizenship unless you are racially German. Fifth generation born German speaking Turks are not granted citizenship, but non-German speaking ethnic Volga Germans are granted citizenship automatically. This situation has improved somewhat currently, but they still talk of Blut und Boden (race/blood and soil) for granting citizenship.
I also lived in UK for two years, but I am not going to bring that up. In UK, the Indian community is strong economically and they know it. And "we are there because they were here."
Gautam

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Suraj » 27 May 2019 11:17

Those are both settlement permits similar to a US green card, and not a work visa tied to an employer as such. Even the US green card can be revoked under several conditions. India does not have any settlement or permanent residence statuses.

The UK subject is much more different. They used to have no such thing as a citizenship, and everyone born in the whole 'empire' was a British subject. Then in the late 1940s the implemented the BNA1948 whereupon those who had right to citizenship of newly independent countries gained that citizenship and lost British subject status. Therefore, everyone born in India before 1947 was a British subject. Those who did not automatically acquire Indian nationality this way, e.g. Indians born in Uganda or Kenya where they did not give local citizenship to ethnic Indians - got Citizen of the UK and Colonies (CUKC) British status. Those people could freely move to and live in UK (which is what they did when Idi Amin kicked them out).

Later in 1971, the UK realized all those people born in the ex colonies could inundate the UK, and following hardline anti immigrant sentiment (led by Enoch Powell, who is most famous for his Rivers of Blood speech. However, Powell is less known for the fact that he had since his childhood desired to become Viceroy of India, and Clement Attlee's actions traumatized him and made him fiercely anti-colonial as a reaction. He's on record stating that he spent August 15 1947 traumatized, walking around London all night filled with anger that his 'dream' was shattered.

Regardless, until 1983, anyone born in UK was British by birth, and several combinations of circumstances, their children too became British by descent. This causes complications when people are unaware and later find out and leads to immigration related complications - something I know firsthand. The laws changed many times over.

However, the bottomline is, no major country has an endlessly renewable non-settlement status visa. It's not clear how some agents of influence have been able to continuously reside in India and even acquire property while being UK nationals.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby g.sarkar » 27 May 2019 14:44

Surajji,
I am afraid I can not agree with your conclusion. Germany does not have a green card for non-EEC citizens. Germany may give you a visa for one year or two years. These are renewed year after year, I know a lot of people with this situation. In my own case, I had a visa for 1 year, that was changed to a two year visa and then extended every two years. If I had stayed there, I would still get a visa for two years, till I was able to get a visa that was limitless (Unbefristet). But I was not given a right to this visa. After you have been there for a "long" time, and your profession is in need, they may or may not give you a "permanent" visa. Totally up to the civil servant's decision, or the current guidelines of the government. Rules are often not transparent as in UK, India or US, which are coming from the the legal system developed by the British. Germany follows the Napoleonic system which is significantly different. After giving visa, they may cancel at any time. With the second option there is some legal recourse of appeals. But Germany believes in keeping foreigners in tight control in this way. Jews were living in Germany for thousands of years, but they lost their citizenship quite legally. An extreme example, but it did happen not too long ago. Against this, the USA has the green card system, a permanent residency that is ultimately meant to lead to citizenship. Once you have a green card, you are eligible for citizenship after 5 or 3 years, depending. There is a presumption that a green card holder will be come a citizen. He is not allowed to leave the country for long periods of time presumably to grow roots in the country, and help in the economy. Germany on the other hand believes that citizenship is based on German ancestry not birth or stay. They say clearly that Germany is not a immigration country (Einwanderungsland). Non-EEC foreigners working in Germany are called "Gastarbeiter" or "guest" workers. The meaning behind "guest" is someone who is will go home after his time is done in Germany. In the meantime they are on an endlessly renewable non-settlement status visa. This system of Guest workers is not new. Germany had a need of foreign workers after the industrial revolution. They have been importing labor ever since. It reached a peak during WWII, when slave labor powered the armament industry. This continued after the end of WWII. For example, young men from Turkey, whose grand parents or great grand parents who came over are still not citizen.They no longer speak proper Turkish and speak German only, they are not expected to leave Germany at all . Yet they continue to be without German citizenship and remain on visas. The last point I would like to make is that Germans in general do not accept someone foreign with a German citizenship as "German". That is the reason most Indians living in Germany for a long time continue with a renewable visa. They do not want to loose Indian citizenship for a piece of paper. In this respect US, Canada and the UK are very different.
This is my last contribution on this topic.
Gautam

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Suraj » 27 May 2019 20:36

You claim to disagree with me and then state largely in agreement with what I stated :) India, like Germany, is a jus sanguinis country and has entirely eliminated jus solis basis of citizenship acquisition. India does not provide a path to naturalization from a work visa at all. As such, an infinitely renewable work visa that some foreign journalists use, is incompatible with Indian immigration law. India, unlike Germany, has no sustained skills shortage requiring such a visa system for workers, particularly when such a visa is monopolized by journalists (NOT a skilled visa category).

The entire line of original inquiry is about what visa does Indian immigration law offer, that can be infinitely renewed, and why India needs to eliminate it.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby g.sarkar » 11 Jun 2019 15:30

https://www.spiegel.de/international/eu ... 69597.html
British Austerity
One Family's Struggle to Escape Poverty in the UK

Although the United Kingdom is the fifth-richest country in the world, 14 million people in the country live below the poverty line. The problem has grown dramatically since the financial crisis -- as shown by the family of Kris Thomas.
By Raphael Thelen und Thomas Victor (Photos)
Kris Thomas is hungry. It's the kind of hunger that can make people weak and ill -- and ultimately destroy them. The 27-year old is looking for work. He has to provide for two children, and although he has the right to state benefits, that's currently not enough to keep his family fed and clothed in the United Kingdom -- the fifth richest country in the world.
So Thomas heads to the Bridgeway Hall Methodist Church in Nottingham. He walks into the low-ceilinged foyer with an empty sports bag in his hand and sits down at a table with his head down, surrounded by men in tattered clothes.
A woman in a green apron sits down with Thomas and asks, "What's the reason for your visit?" She's a volunteer at Nottingham food bank, a non-profit organization that distributes donated groceries to the needy for free.
As Thomas glances up to give her his pink voucher, a tattoo becomes visible on his neck: Stacy, his girlfriend's name. She and their children -- Cleo, 10, and Kaydn, 8 -- are also here. They're the ones Thomas is most worried about.
He says, "The Job Center sanctioned us and cut our payments, even though we had two job interviews." The woman in the green apron shakes her head. "That's a nightmare," she says, adding, "I start ranting when I hear this. Don't get me there."
Thomas nods and says that it makes his blood boil when he thinks about it. Many others are in a similar predicament: Millions of Britons struggle to make ends meet and hunger has become rampant in the country. Over 14 million people -- including workers, the unemployed and children -- live below the poverty line, and more than half of them are food insecure. For them, it's a daily struggle to put food on the table. More than 4 million children are affected.
Since 2008, the number of food banks has soared from 29 to 2,000. Hundreds of thousands of people use them. Because of widespread malnutrition, children have trouble focusing in school. Parents are more likely to get sick. The old are dying earlier.
It all began a decade ago, amid the 2008 financial crisis. The British government provided 500 billion pounds to bail out the financial sector, and by April 2009, Time magazine ran an article entitled "More Quickly Than It Began, The Banking Crisis Is Over." Profits started rolling in again for financial institutions. Stock prices recovered. Shortly after that, the newly elected Conservative-Lib Dem coalition government pushed through an austerity program and made cuts to the welfare system. The specter of hunger returned.
.....
Gautam

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 11 Jun 2019 15:33

^^dont look in isolation sir, UK has imported a lot of refugees in this period from Syria and where not...

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Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Peregrine » 11 Jun 2019 15:51

X Posted on the Terroristan Thread

MQM founder Altaf Hussain arrested in London: Metropolitan Police - News Desk
Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) founder Altaf Hussain was arrested in a raid by the Scotland Yard on Tuesday.
The arrest was confirmed in a statement released by the London Metropolitan Police.
The MQM founder was reportedly arrested in relation to the 2016 hate speech case in which he urged his followers to “take the law in their hands”.
Cheers Image

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby g.sarkar » 11 Jun 2019 16:09

Another interesting article:
https://www.spiegel.de/international/eu ... 70238.html
Oxford Professor on Brexit's Colonial Roots
'The Empire Was Celebrated as A Great Thing'
In the view of Oxford Professor Danny Dorling, a British elite drunk on nationalism is responsible for the Brexit disaster. Raised in the traditions of the British Empire, they continue to glorify the crimes committed during colonialism.
By Jörg Schindler, May 31, 2019
.....
DER SPIEGEL: Are the remnants of the Empire visible in normal places as well?
Dorling: You can see them everywhere. Go to the home counties, this ring of counties around London. Many people who live there are descendants of men who worked for as long as 30 years or more for the colonial offices in India. Then they came back and got a cottage with roses around the door, the one everybody is dreaming of. It was their kind of reward, a way to move up socially. So, our geography of the South of England is a geography based on the empire. And then, of course, there are the cities in the north of England that became rich because they were at the heart of the slave trade or various other trades which only existed and got so large because of unfair terms of trade with the colonies.
DER SPIEGEL: The British historian David Olusoga, whose father is Nigerian, writes in "Black and British: A Forgotten History" that the country is in a state of denial about certain aspects of its past. Why is that?
Dorling: Because it is too painful. We built up the most effective slave trade the world has ever known for 400 years. We depopulated almost the entire continent of Africa. You can see it on world maps. Then we go, oh, you do know that the Spanish and Portuguese started it first. And we teach children about the philanthropist William Wilberforce, who fought that system, as if we're the people who ended slavery in the world. It's remarkable.
DER SPIEGEL: But isn't it always the case that nations glorify their past?
Dorling: Not always. The effect on you if you're English on a visit to Berlin is stunning because it's so alien to be somewhere where violence isn't celebrated. You go into a war memorial, and there's just a woman holding a child crying, no soldiers. Whereas in my city -- I grew up in Oxford -- the highest statue on the public high street is still the statue of Cecil Rhodes. He was one of the most inhuman human beings in the history of mankind. He was probably also a pedophile. The irony is that more people are worried about whether he's a pedophile than the fact that he happily watched thousands of young black children die in his mines.
DER SPIEGEL: You argue in your book that Britain had to join the EU in the early 1970s because it had lost its colonies and was in economic decline as a result.
Dorling: Yeah, things were going badly wrong. We were tanking economically. We were crashing down because, every year, India was buying less woven cotton from Manchester mills because as a free nation it didn't need to anymore. And the assumption of joining was that, by joining the new market of the European community we would do well.
DER SPIEGEL: Which you did.
Dorling: But for many people it felt like a national humiliation.
DER SPIEGEL: Do you have evidence that the longing for the old empire was the biggest driver for Brexit?
Dorling: Not evidence, I think it is largely subconscious. But we do have evidence about the immigration worries. Why do the British hold such a disdain for immigrants and foreigners? Because our Empire textbooks told us we were superior to all these people.
DER SPIEGEL: But Britain has also been a largely successful multicultural nation because of the Empire.
Dorling: It is multicultural. It's a large family, but an extremely patriarchal family in which the domineering and violent and brutal father is white.
DER SPIEGEL: Do you think Theresa May's immigration obsession has its roots in in the Empire myth?
Dorling: Well, yes. She grew up not far from the place where I grew up. From the age of six, I was living in the Oxford suburb Risinghurst. If I had lived 40 meters further east, I'd have gone to her school. In my school there were a lot of black and Asian pupils. Urdu was the second language. Whereas Theresa May's school was an all-white school.
DER SPIEGEL: So?
Dorling: Don't forget that was in a time when black people were seen as dirty and beneath. Black men were not allowed to work in the car factory until the 1950s in Oxford. She grew up in a deeply racist time and deeply racist environment.
.....
DER SPIEGEL: Let's assume there will be a hard Brexit. Is it possible that Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson and the other nationalists are right, that Britain will succeed and maybe head toward an Empire 2.0?
Dorling: Oh, yes. The way you do it is you turn the whole of Britain into a Treasure Island. And we know how to do that because most of the world's Treasure Islands are under the Privy Council, like the Cayman Islands, Guernsey and Jersey and the Isle of Man. We know how to do shadowy Panama-style banking. It would be the death knell for all those islands, by the way, because if you can do it in London, why do it somewhere else?
DER SPIEGEL: You mean transforming Britain into a sort of XXL version of the Cayman Islands?
Dorling: We rapidly move towards that. It is exactly what the elite of the hard exit people want. The plan is that we offer really low tax rates for billionaires. And we can have the great London party season revised again and the May balls in Mayfair return again. The world's super rich would come to their London home for that part of the year. And they can have servants again. We'll have many more servants in the future if the Brexiteers get their way. We will boost our education sector. We will go to American-style fees, £60,000 to come to my university for the children of the very wealthy from China and India. And if you've worked hard enough and you're talented and you've got it in you, you can rise to the top and enjoy part of this and make the wheels of the world work better. We will be great again.
......
Gautam

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby UlanBatori » 12 Jun 2019 05:38

Sorry to gloat but... Month's worth of rain in 1 day and Brishitstan ain't so prepared neither

Month's worth of rain in 1 day triggers flooding, travel chaos in UK
June 11, 2019, 11:52:57 AM EDT
Parts of the East Midlands and South East England were inundated with more than a month's worth of rain in just 24 hours spanning Monday into Monday night, and more downpours are targeting the United Kingdom. ]

But I came to gloat about the WONDERFUL geniuses who scheduled the ICC World Cup in this place at this time. High danger of all teams having same points because they are all getting washed out. Stay tuned for TSP- AUS Matchup Of Champion (crooks) to get washed out todin. All that Reberj Shwing expertise on both sides going waste, so many bottle caps and vaseline wasted.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby g.sarkar » 12 Jun 2019 07:34

UlanBatoriji,
In a match between the white pigs and brown pigs, who to support as a Dharmic? I have been pondering on this for some time and can not come to a conclusion. Can you or others help?
Gautam

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby UlanBatori » 12 Jun 2019 07:54

We at UBCN are very clear on this. Here is the algorithm.
1. Support whoever is playing against Pakistan - UNLESS it is UQ.
2. If it is UQ vs. Pakistan, support Pakistan.
3. Windies vs. AUS/RSA/UQ/NZ: support Windies
4. AUS/RSA: THERE Dharma comes under real stress, but generally I would support RSA, they are poorer and less arrogant (since Nel and Herschel Gibbs left). After all RSA is the team of Hans Cronje the Father of Bookiestan, u gotta respect that.
5. AUS/NZ: support NZ because it is nice to see Roos getting defeated by tiny NZ.
6. BD/SL: I support SL unless they are in danger of getting ahead of desh in points.
7. Afghanistan: Fortunately they have only one player (the guy who plays in IPL), and he gets injured in due course.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 12 Jun 2019 19:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Rahul M » 12 Jun 2019 09:13

KSA is saudi, south africa is RSA.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby g.sarkar » 12 Jun 2019 09:19

OK. So, I must support AUS against PAK. This will burn my my p***c hairs, but a man's got to do what a man's got to do.
Thanks UlanBatoriji.
Gautam

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby sanjaykumar » 12 Jun 2019 10:07

Support Pakistan against Britain? :eek:

Please see professor Dorling’s views above. And this man is at Oxford. Would a Muslim Pakistani ever write an honest appraisal of his nation’s crimes? Could he? Even if 10 % of brits hold such sensible views, that’s a lot more the any analogous Pakistanis.
Would you be subject to Pakistani justice or take your chances with British?


Never support Pakistan in any endeavour.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Kashi » 12 Jun 2019 12:26

sanjaykumar wrote:Never support Pakistan in any endeavour.


What if they endeavour to destroy themselves?

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby UlanBatori » 12 Jun 2019 19:38

Rahul M wrote:KSA is saudi, south africa is RSA.

Now that I think about that, the K was in Three-Star King (whom MouthOffrikans often praise in every sentence). For instance, herschelle gibbs on Pakistanis as caught by Stump Microphone:
I ***King hate these ***King Pakistanis who ***King can't be ***King trusted.
. Also, Hans Kronje, the ***King of Krooks.
Speaking of Crooks, the Pakis seem to have reberj-shwung the 'Roos amazingly in the Death Overs. Bottle caps must be at work, though Amir's 5 seemed to all pace.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Jun 2019 03:07

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019 ... is-johnson
The Empty Promise of Boris Johnson
The man expected to be Britain’s next Prime Minister makes people in power, including himself, appear ridiculous, but that doesn’t mean he’d dream of handing power to anybody else.

European view of Boris Johnson
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... british-pm
'Mini-Trump across the Channel': EU media on Boris Johnson as British PM
The Dutch daily newspaper de Volkskrant said Johnson’s appeal was as a “Brexit-believer, a 21st-century buccaneer, a pirate who surfs the oceans in search of wealth, unconstrained by rules or conventions”. But it said there was good reason to think he “believes rather more in himself than in Brexit”.

It said Johnson’s main strength was that “no scandal seems to stick, be it extramarital affairs, fraudulent statements, offensive utterances or an offer to help an old college friend attack a tabloid journalist.” For the Tories he was “the joker in the card game that Brexit has become”.


An American view of Boris Johnson
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/d ... -minister/
Watch: Don’t Underestimate Boris Johnson, One of Trump’s Picks for Prime Minister

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 15 Jun 2019 03:00

twitter


UK exports in 2017:


(£bn) EU £274.00bn

USA £46.50bn

China £16.91bn

Japan £5.79bn

Canada £4.90bn

Australia £4.59bn

Saudi Arabia £4.26bn

India £4.13bn

South Africa £2.15bn

Brazil £1.83bn

Spot the problem. #Brexit


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