India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[vimal]

I’m disappointed by the lack of freedom of speech and shrinking space for dissent. I hope all the parties involved come to amiable agreement without resorting to violence or threats thereof.

[Amber G.]

US gets hints from India how to let a democracy work ..
The US today rebuked a Pakistani reporter's questions on allegations of an Australian journalist's claims not allowed to cover Indian general elections and said that the country determines which non-citizens it allows to enter, either as short-term travellers or international journalists.

Responding to a question by a Pakistani reporter on allegations of denial of visa renewal to Australian journalist, Avani Dias, US State Department Principal Deputy Spokesperson Vedant Patel said,

"The Government of India can speak to its own visa policy. That's not something I'm going to opine on from here."

Patel further emphasised the role of the free press in the fabric of democracy...
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-on-a ... ia-5524644
..During the press briefing, Mr Patel also denied making any remark on the internal investigation report by the Indian Government on the alleged assassination plot of Khalistani terrorist Gurpatwant Singh Pannun.

He said, "I'm not aware of the report that you're referencing. This is ultimately a Department of Justice matter and I will defer to them and let them speak to this."

[Amber G.]

Meanwhile: No freedom of expression for Hasan Sayed & Achinthya Sivalingam in USA,,
Reported to have been arrested, evicted & permanently banned from Princeton campus.
US crackdown from Coast to Coast with riot police & mounted police on campus in several universities..

Hassan Sayed, a fifth year PhD candidate in economics, and Achinthya Sivalingan, a SPIA MPA second year, have been arrested, evicted, and permanently banned from the
@Princeton campus, thereby preventing them from finishing their degrees..

[Tanaji]

How do people find time for these demonstrations etc.? When I was a graduate student, I was so rushed and busy between part time job and studies that there was barely any time to even relax let alone join demonstrations…

[vcsekhar]

How do people find time for these demonstrations etc.? When I was a graduate student, I was so rushed and busy between part time job and studies that there was barely any time to even relax let alone join demonstrations…

I don't think these two are doing the type of STEM courses that the majority of Indian students do in the US, the rest of the grad students seem to always have a lot of time available for other things

[Manish_P]

India's Advice to US Over Gaza Protest in Colleges

[sanman]

Trump to Punish India & Others Who Want "De-Dollarisation"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTLHlAZnAis

[A_Gupta]

https://paw.princeton.edu/article/two-s ... -princeton

Princeton story.

[KL Dubey]

How do people find time for these demonstrations etc.? When I was a graduate student, I was so rushed and busy between part time job and studies that there was barely any time to even relax let alone join demonstrations…

I don't think these two are doing the type of STEM courses that the majority of Indian students do in the US, the rest of the grad students seem to always have a lot of time available for other things

These are not Indian students, they are Indian-Americans. Indian students on F-1 visa will think hard and long before showing up at such protests, since they can be deported for even a minor criminal offense, or I-20 form invalidated if suspended from the university.

[A_Gupta]

^^^ Yes, Indian-American.

After being born in Tamil Nadu's Coimbatore, Achinthya Sivalingam was raised in Columbus, Ohio, according to the university's official website.

Before enrolling into Masters in Public Affairs in International Development at Princeton, she studied international politics and economics at Ohio State University.

In the past, she has worked on a variety of policy issues in India and the United States with civil society organisations, politics, legal system and private philanthropy.

She most recently worked with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, supporting policy and advocacy efforts for the portfolios of nutrition, agricultural development, and climate adaption.

She has supported congressional campaign in Ohio's third district and even worked on India's land rights and policy at the Centre for Policy Research. Her areas of expertise include communications and narratives about climate change.

The "Centre for Policy Research" is an Indian spelling. The American Center for Policy Research is a Denver-based organization founded in 1981, and as far as I can tell, is US-domestic only; I'm reasonably sure it has no research about India.

The Indian "Centre for Policy Research" : https://cprindia.org
"Dharma Marg, Chanakyapuri New Delhi-110021 India"

https://centerforpolicyresearch.org/about-us/

The Centre for Policy Research (CPR) is recognised as a not-for-profit society by the Government of India, and contributions to the Centre are tax exempt. CPR receives grants from the Indian Council for Social Science Research (ICSSR), and is a Department of Science and Technology (DST) recognised institution.

CPR receives grants from a variety of domestic and international sources, including foundations, corporate philanthropy, governments, and multilateral agencies. A full accounting of annual finances and grants is available below. For further information, please see our annual reports.

Per Wiki:
Notable academicians in CPR's core faculty from various fields of public policy include:
Brahma Chellaney
Bharat Karnad
Pratap Bhanu Mehta
G. Parthasarathy
Lavanya Rajamani
Shyam Saran

---
How did this young woman get caught up in this Israel-Palestine mess? A real pity.

[Manish_P]

...

She most recently worked with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation

---
How did this young woman get caught up in this Israel-Palestine mess? A real pity.

Probably met a Paki/s there and was 'influenced'

[vcsekhar]

Probably met a Paki/s there and was 'influenced'

The pull of virtue signalling is very strong in the younger college kids in the US. My good friends cousin (born and brought up in the US) has swallowed all the anti India propaganda popular in the "progressive" uni's. Its the same for the Anti Israel propaganda.
She has absolutely no idea about the ground realities in the country and also has no desire to learn, she only reads the NYT/WaPo and such papers and has made up her mind.

[Manish_P]

Probably met a Paki/s there and was 'influenced'

The pull of virtue signalling is very strong in the younger college kids in the US. ...

Yes, there is that too.. sometimes it starts with a desire just to blend in.

[Rakesh]

Where is the Yeh-Dosti-Hum-Nahi-Todenge crowd on BRF?

Bhai Log, Kya Hua? No more shamelessly peddling the mythical Indo-US bonhomie on BRF?

US state department points ‘antisemitic’ finger at Narendra Modi government
https://www.telegraphindia.com/world/us ... id/2015332
24 April 2024

'There were reports the government engaged in transnational repression against journalists, members of diaspora populations, civil society activists, and human rights defenders'.

[vera_k]

An assassination plot on American soil

More details about the Pannun case. At the very least, this indicates there's substantial distrust between USA and India after the two Americans Rana and Headley collaborated in the attack on Mumbai.

[chetak]

Probably met a Paki/s there and was 'influenced'

The pull of virtue signalling is very strong in the younger college kids in the US. My good friends cousin (born and brought up in the US) has swallowed all the anti India propaganda popular in the "progressive" uni's. Its the same for the Anti Israel propaganda.
She has absolutely no idea about the ground realities in the country and also has no desire to learn, she only reads the NYT/WaPo and such papers and has made up her mind.

vcsekhar ji,

while I understand the point that you have made, there are extremely few, if any at all, cheeni kids involved in these protests.... how come ...

Are they brainier or are Indian kids just plain dumb to get caught up in such meaningless and inane protests which basically have nothing to do with them and some will, doubtless, end up pissing their careers away

I guess that food stamps or flipping burgers may be one way to go ...

[sanjaykumar]

The CCP has an extensive surveillance network in the west.

I would like to see Trudeau at least acknowledge it. Democracy is dear to him, rightly.

[Rakesh]

An assassination plot on American soil

More details about the Pannun case. At the very least, this indicates there's substantial distrust between USA and India after the two Americans Rana and Headley collaborated in the attack on Mumbai.

https://x.com/Z_DauletSingh/status/1784982488236147186 ---> There is now overwhelming evidence uncovered by Americans themselves that the CIA was involved in the brazen assassination of a sitting US President in 1963.

Anything with “The CIA believes…” is a joke.

[Amber G.]

Meanwhile - pro Palestine slogan was met with a 'firewall' of Jai Shri Ram slogan!!


In US, countered mob chanting Pro Palestine slogans. He started chanting "Jai Shri Ram" slogans"
Jai Shri Ram

[vcsekhar]

vcsekhar ji,
while I understand the point that you have made, there are extremely few, if any at all, cheeni kids involved in these protests.... how come ...
Are they brainier or are Indian kids just plain dumb to get caught up in such meaningless and inane protests which basically have nothing to do with them and some will, doubtless, end up pissing their careers away
I guess that food stamps or flipping burgers may be one way to go ...

Most first or second gen Desi/Cheeni kids in college are hyper focussed on graduation with high grades and getting good jobs, however, the number of desi kids who are on the other side of the mean is higher than Cheeni kids. I would hardly every see Cheeni kids doing retail jobs, but on my last visit, I noticed a significant number of desi kids who were in retail jobs (best buy, apple store, malls) whereas I would hardly ever see cheeni kids of the same age in those positions. This is very different from 20 years ago. Anyways these are just my anecdotal observations.
There are far too many Desi kids who get caught up in "wanting to be more american than americans" than Cheeni kids. During my time in the US, I knew many desi kids who could not speak the their language and almost zero cheeni kids who did not. My personal theory was that Desi kids were not proud of their heritage whereas most other immigrants were. I think a lot of people here will know what I am talking about.

[ricky_v]

There are far too many Desi kids who get caught up in "wanting to be more american than americans" than Cheeni kids. During my time in the US, I knew many desi kids who could not speak the their language and almost zero cheeni kids who did not. My personal theory was that Desi kids were not proud of their heritage whereas most other immigrants were. I think a lot of people here will know what I am talking about.

way ot, but let me also put my 2cents into this matter:

1. chinis will mostly use "english" names in gora lands, james, alice whatever, desis following suit is very very less, they go by their given names

2. chinis are more adept at playing piano, cello, violin than their ancestral equipment, not due to skill familiarity but with practising religiously on these instruments

3. chinis undeclared national game is basketball, second would be soccer, where are the local sports? maybe the peacock like kungfu can be considered one now that it has proven to be useless in actual martial sports such as the mma; individually on an olympics level, would be gymnastics and swimming

4. chinis are way into marble sculpture now, internet is lit with numerous examples, though they mostly make replicas of western relics

5. chinis are also heavily into ballet, not their ancestral dance

6. chinis communicate in their language, yes, it is heartwarming... but on the flipside they also bring this more into academics, as students, making every conversation tedious; it is an openly acknowledged fact that gora unis accumulate a lot of chini money by teaching them english as a separate course, they get a different visa than indians, and it is compulsory for them to enroll and pass conversational english, at least in oz

7. lastly, in gora campuses, chini girls migrate towards any gora lads in a manner reminiscent of the serengeti

so are desis not proud of their heritage or are the chinis too acclimatised, who can say?

i can only say that the above tendencies are not of peoples who consider their manner superior to others

[Mukesh.Kumar]

Meanwhile - pro Palestine slogan was met with a 'firewall' of Jai Shri Ram slogan!!


In US, countered mob chanting Pro Palestine slogans. He started chanting "Jai Shri Ram" slogans"
Jai Shri Ram

This makes me deeply uncomfortable. No way is "Jai Shri Ram" in any way associated with Palestine, the guy speaking out loudly isn't Indian, and to boot is wearing an Israeli flag.

1. Force fitting and associating an Indian cultural/ religious symbol with Israel and pitting it against the 'popular' pro-Palestine demonstration.
2. Who is this guy? Where did he learn this? Does he understand what he is speaking?

IMO- This looks like a redux of associating the swastika with the NAZI movement in Germany.

[vcsekhar]

way ot, but let me also put my 2cents into this matter:
1. chinis will mostly use "english" names in gora lands, james, alice whatever, desis following suit is very very less, they go by their given names
2. chinis are more adept at playing piano, cello, violin than their ancestral equipment, not due to skill familiarity but with practising religiously on these instruments
3. chinis undeclared national game is basketball, second would be soccer, where are the local sports? maybe the peacock like kungfu can be considered one now that it has proven to be useless in actual martial sports such as the mma; individually on an olympics level, would be gymnastics and swimming
4. chinis are way into marble sculpture now, internet is lit with numerous examples, though they mostly make replicas of western relics
5. chinis are also heavily into ballet, not their ancestral dance
6. chinis communicate in their language, yes, it is heartwarming... but on the flipside they also bring this more into academics, as students, making every conversation tedious; it is an openly acknowledged fact that gora unis accumulate a lot of chini money by teaching them english as a separate course, they get a different visa than indians, and it is compulsory for them to enroll and pass conversational english, at least in oz
7. lastly, in gora campuses, chini girls migrate towards any gora lads in a manner reminiscent of the serengeti
so are desis not proud of their heritage or are the chinis too acclimatised, who can say?
i can only say that the above tendencies are not of peoples who consider their manner superior to others

I agree with a lot of these things and that this is becoming OT.
1. Chini kids and adults know how to play the game very well, Christian names are the first then they choose as soon as they come to the US, sometimes even before they land. Desis certainly do not do that.
2. Musical instrument skills are driven into them by parents and research has shown that there is a correlation between musical ability/practice with intelligence and math skills.
3. I do not know about their national sport but you can hardly say any sport is this country or that, even cricket and football (the actual one) are becoming popular in the US these days.
4. Chinis and sculpture seems to be a tik tok thing, is the janta in the US doing it now?
5. Ballet or any performing arts is a big thing for Chini culture, its the same in Taiwan or Sg or Mainland China, again correlation with intelligence and math.
6. Indians also do a lot of communication in local langs even in tech companies. During my time in Austin, there were times in which I used to hear more Hindi and Telugu in the office than English. Used to irritate the hell out of goras. I am referring to gen1 adults not abcd kids. I am not aware of a separate visa for chini kids in the US, I don't know anything about Oz colleges.
7. Totally agree that Chini girls gravitated to gora boys, even chini boys used to complain a lot about this. But, then again, I have 2 cousins in the US who are married to gora boys. They refused to date even abcd boys forget about desi boys.
Again, this is OT to this thread and just my anecdotal experience.
During my time in Uni and Work in the US, i had the pleasure of working with really smart people from all across the world (In, Ch, Eastern Europe, Latin America etc). One thing that always stood out was that the first people to try and put on an American accent were the Indians. None of the others even tried. Take it as my anecdote and nothing more.

[ricky_v]

2. Musical instrument skills are driven into them by parents and research has shown that there is a correlation between musical ability/practice with intelligence and math skills.

but why only classical western instruments such as cello, violin, lyre, piano? is there also a correlation between type of instrument and mathematical genius? what about tanpura? dhol? cymbal? banjo? pipa? xanxian? foghorn?

my point is that chinis are poseurs par exemplar, they aspire to more whiteness than whites themselves

3. I do not know about their national sport but you can hardly say any sport is this country or that, even cricket and football (the actual one) are becoming popular in the US these days.

sports becoming popular in any country is not analogous with sports becoming popular in that country, but rather becoming popular with certain communities and the burgeoning population of said communities in that country, look at us, canada cricket teams, they are without fail indian teams, maybe one hispanic here or there.

the gulf countries are also very successful in athletics and cricket, but curiously not the arabs as an ethnic group themselves.

surely the chinis had some form of gaming leisure before the advent of the barbarians, yet they do not display, practice or promote them; in india, we have the traditional kushti, kabaddi, kho-kho, the first 2 are heavily promoted internationally as well and are extremely popular nationally with numerous akharas.

5. Ballet or any performing arts is a big thing for Chini culture, its the same in Taiwan or Sg or Mainland China, again correlation with intelligence and math.

but again, why is only ballet correlated with intelligence? does not salsa, flamenco, contemporary breakdance, ancient chinese dance require coordination as well?

all of these might seem trivial, but these make a lot of difference to the host populace, the chinis ingratiate themselves to the white population to no end, aping their best traditions, forgoing their own culture, but only leaving language and propensity for watching shtty kdramas

the desis speak their own language, they play cricket, they go watch indian movies in western halls, and at the end of the day, the host population is far more comfortable and in tune with desis than chinis (and adjacent), i have always found that curious

[RaviB]

One thing that always stood out was that the first people to try and put on an American accent were the Indians. None of the others even tried. Take it as my anecdote and nothing more.

Ricky ji, I have been living in Germany for a long time and it was pointed out to me (by an American, of all things) that I speak English with a German accent. There was no point at which I even considered speaking English with a German accent. Maybe us Indians are simply more comfortable picking up languages and somehow the accent leaks in.

It is quite embarrassing for me to speak weird German-English, so I either shut my mouth or speak only Hindi when back home.

OT but just wanted to share my personal experience because it's probably quite weird.

[ricky_v]

Ricky ji, I have been living in Germany for a long time and it was pointed out to me (by an American, of all things) that I speak English with a German accent. There was no point at which I even considered speaking English with a German accent. Maybe us Indians are simply more comfortable picking up languages and somehow the accent leaks in.

It is quite embarrassing for me to speak weird German-English, so I either shut my mouth or speak only Hindi when back home.

OT but just wanted to share my personal experience because it's probably quite weird.

RaviB ji, your point of

Maybe us Indians are simply more comfortable picking up languages and somehow the accent leaks in.

is most pertinent. I would put it down to the enunciation of our languages which are quite vast, i believe that speakers of indian languages can properly get the tone right of any language and that is quite a strong head start as the words can start "making sense" in other languages and the logical tonal consistencies can assert themselves and bleed over into other languages

as an aside, the quoted para in your post is relayed by vcsekhar and not by me..

[A_Gupta]

^^^
Puzzling.

White House officials warned the Modi government this month that The Post was close to publishing an investigation that would reveal new details about the case. It did so without notifying The Post.

The claims:

"In reports that have been closely held within the American government, U.S. intelligence agencies have assessed that the operation targeting Pannun was approved by the RAW chief at the time, Samant Goel."

"The assassination is a “priority now,” wrote Vikram Yadav, an officer in India’s spy agency, the Research and Analysis Wing, or RAW, according to current and former U.S. and Indian security officials."

---
Just who are these "former Indian security officials", one wonders. I also check via Google translate for news of Nikhil Gupta who is awaiting extradition from the Czech Republic, I don't know what is taking them so long.

My guess is that if all this was an attempt to influence the election one way or another, it will come to a boil again, soon.

[putnanja]

On the issue of languages, I have my own theory. Many immigrant chinese are very poor english speakers . So they speak to their kids in their own tongue at home, and kids speak in English outside. Among Indians, majority speak English well. I have seen many parents speak english to their young ones even before joining school/day care so that they will be prepared. And they continue speaking in English to their kids instead of their native tongue, or a mix of both. In many families, I have seen parents speak in their mother tongue and kids replying in English. Kids can understand but are more comfortable with English, and they know their parents can speak english well and understand. That's why chinese kids speak their language well compared to Indian kids in my view.

[morem]

On the issue of languages, I have my own theory. Many immigrant chinese are very poor english speakers . So they speak to their kids in their own tongue at home, and kids speak in English outside. Among Indians, majority speak English well. I have seen many parents speak english to their young ones even before joining school/day care so that they will be prepared. And they continue speaking in English to their kids instead of their native tongue, or a mix of both. In many families, I have seen parents speak in their mother tongue and kids replying in English. Kids can understand but are more comfortable with English, and they know their parents can speak english well and understand. That's why chinese kids speak their language well compared to Indian kids in my view.

This is precisely my situation. Son understands the mother tongue but answers in English.
And this "I have seen many parents speak english to their young ones even before joining school/day care so that they will be prepared." - is a 100% spot on.

[Amber G.]

Meanwhile - pro Palestine slogan was met with a 'firewall' of Jai Shri Ram slogan!!


In US, countered mob chanting Pro Palestine slogans. He started chanting "Jai Shri Ram" slogans"
Jai Shri Ram

This makes me deeply uncomfortable. No way is "Jai Shri Ram" in any way associated with Palestine, the guy speaking out loudly isn't Indian, and to boot is wearing an Israeli flag.

1. Force fitting and associating an Indian cultural/ religious symbol with Israel and pitting it against the 'popular' pro-Palestine demonstration.
2. Who is this guy? Where did he learn this? Does he understand what he is speaking?

IMO- This looks like a redux of associating the swastika with the NAZI movement in Germany.

I disagree.. my thoughts are same as Prof Vidyasagar (SERB National Science Chair at IIT Hyderabad & Fellow of The Royal Society, author of SUTRA etc) & others whom I respect.:
(And I think it is important enough for this thread..)..

(It is chant like "USA" or similar ( none-controversial) often done to show solidarity here .. when we wants to shutdown other chants)

If we Hindus had any tactical or strategic sense, we would embrace people like him within our fold. Instead we will start nit-picking that he is not a "real" Hindu and thus has no right to say it. Our stupidity always comes to the fore.

[A_Gupta]

I took that "Jai Shri Ram" to mean solidarity against Islamists.

[Amber G.]

Meanwhile: India should learn:
Incentives drive human behavior. Rewarding protesters who violate codes of conduct & the law only encourages more protests & bad behavior. Case in point: Northwestern's deal with encampment organizers & new full-ride scholarship for Palestinian students:
Link: Northwestern Cuts Deal with Encampment Organizers, Establishes Full-Ride Scholarship for Palestinian Students

Unbelievable!!!

[Amber G.]

And here: "

we want to be revolutionaries, we want to take over this building.. We will wear crop-top and show belly-button all in Gaza's name but ... now would you please bring us some food

'."

https://x.com/TPostMillennial/status/17 ... 755900611

[sanman]

Meanwhile - pro Palestine slogan was met with a 'firewall' of Jai Shri Ram slogan!!


In US, countered mob chanting Pro Palestine slogans. He started chanting "Jai Shri Ram" slogans"
Jai Shri Ram

From the comments section, that kid is supposedly a Pakistani-American kid who converted to Hinduism

(I'm not sure if his conversion, and his holding of Israeli flag in the video, is some kind of act of teenage rebellion?)

[sanman]

Washington Post Claims Ajit Doval and RAW Chief Ordered Assassination of Pannu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zos96cXY1zM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOs-0O4YdEo

Washington says it takes the matter very seriously, and is investigating the matter

I hope Washington will ask the Khalistan navy to help them handle the Houthi attacks on shipping, as well as Chinese expansion in the Indo-Pacific and South China Sea. Perhaps they can take full help from Canada's navy too -- all 3 boats.
Then at least they won't be stuck slumming it with an unworthy "rogue state" like India.

[Tanaji]

Timed suspiciously bang in the middle of elections conveniently

[Amber G.]

Washington Post Claims Ajit Doval and RAW Chief Ordered Assassination of Pannu,,

Washington says it takes the matter very seriously, and is investigating the matter..

So does India (in taking it seriously ) .. but on WP's story and disgusted in their evilness..
Officially:

>> India rejects the Washington Post story. MEA in a statement says,'

The report in question makes unwarranted and unsubstantiated imputations on a serious matter

Meanwhile those Pakis who funded it said in -- In Pakistan Parliament, President of Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam Pakistan, Maulana Fazlur Rahman points out how India & Pakistan got independence together, & while one is trying to be "superpower", another one is on the way to "default".

[sanman]

Meanwhile those Pakis who funded it said in -- In Pakistan Parliament, President of Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam Pakistan, Maulana Fazlur Rahman points out how India & Pakistan got independence together, & while one is trying to be "superpower", another one is on the way to "default".

This article is not Pakistan's handiwork -- it's America's handiwork -- being played during the elections.

Meanwhile, India has to look at how to protect itself from American highhandedness, and should take a serious look at how others are handling it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUkQMZFkHt4

[A_Gupta]

....Maulana Fazlur Rahman points out how India & Pakistan got independence together, & while one is trying to be "superpower", another one is on the way to "default".

It was Allah's wish, why can't they accept it?

[sanman]

"India is trying to murder some of its critics - even on American soil"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQVLUGNbnPY

Here it comes -- India: The New Brown Peril

hey @uddu - do tell us more about all the psyops you've been complaining about from me. I think that Indians are more targets of psyops than perpetrators of it.