Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

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Aditya_V
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 27 May 2019 10:33

Lets also not forget Pakis are not talking of casualties in March and what was hit by IAF in Chakothi and Muzaffarabad on 26 Feb morning. They now know H-4 bombs dont work, Amraam's are no silver bullet with 2 fired at Mig 21's and 5 at SU-30's, F-16's need to get really up close while the JF-17's could do diddly squat when the time came for them to be used. Thats why Pakis want to deescalate.

Prem
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Prem » 27 May 2019 10:39


Aditya_V
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 27 May 2019 10:41

Hopefully some aircraft are shaheed.

Karan M
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 27 May 2019 10:51

Their problem is their only competitive fighter which can take on our Su-30s, MiG-29s and Mirage 2000s is the F-16.

They have ~84 F-16s vs our 250 Su-30s, 60 odd MiG-29s, 50 odd Mirage 2000s. That's a 4:1 disadvantage.

We can afford the run rate on our serviceability, spares etc. Can they?

Their JF-17s are tier 2 equivalents to our Bisons or slightly superior in A2A, and better for strike + Mirage 3/5, around 100 JF-17s and 270 Mirages which seem to be.

Even there we have 120 Bisons and 110 Jaguars.

Why is the JF-17 so inferior?

Its radar missile combination is barely superior to that on the upgraded MiG-21 Bison. At the recent Zhuhai, we got to know the new AESAs on offer to replace the existing radar which has a range of ~70km. The Bison has a radar with a range of ~60km.

Consider whether that radar + missile combination is sufficient to take on the above IAF fleet.

Now will the upgraded JF-17 work out. All depends on its ECCM, not just raw range and ability to discriminate against clutter. So far, chinese AWACS have not been able to do the job. Will a fighter radar with much less processing be able to pull off the task?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 27 May 2019 11:06

Things will really get more interesting as following things happen in NDA 2.0

+83x LCA Mk1As are ordered, Mk1s are upgraded to standard and deployed to frontline (get SPJ)
+7 Akash Mk1s are ordered, probably with Mk1S missiles
+9 MRSAM squadron deliveries commence (already ordered)
+ Oct 2020 onwards, S-400s start arriving (already ordered)
+ 2x more Phalcons are delivered
+ Rafale deliveries complete, another set of Rafales are ordered or MMRCA is.
+ Su-30 upgrade begins and fixits are implemented (new RWR, EW, more A2A/A2G weapons, SDR)
+ Indigenous PGM pipeline gets active + QRSAM + more Brahmos NG/Nirbhay etc
+ Phase-1 BMD network is active across 5 Indian cities - Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Calcutta, Chennai (+ Hyd most likely)

I suspect at end of 2024, IAF vs PAF overmatch will be so substantial they will actively seek to avoid conflict.

darshhan
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby darshhan » 27 May 2019 13:45

Karan M wrote:Things will really get more interesting as following things happen in NDA 2.0

+83x LCA Mk1As are ordered, Mk1s are upgraded to standard and deployed to frontline (get SPJ)
+7 Akash Mk1s are ordered, probably with Mk1S missiles
+9 MRSAM squadron deliveries commence (already ordered)
+ Oct 2020 onwards, S-400s start arriving (already ordered)
+ 2x more Phalcons are delivered
+ Rafale deliveries complete, another set of Rafales are ordered or MMRCA is.
+ Su-30 upgrade begins and fixits are implemented (new RWR, EW, more A2A/A2G weapons, SDR)
+ Indigenous PGM pipeline gets active + QRSAM + more Brahmos NG/Nirbhay etc
+ Phase-1 BMD network is active across 5 Indian cities - Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Calcutta, Chennai (+ Hyd most likely)

I suspect at end of 2024, IAF vs PAF overmatch will be so substantial they will actively seek to avoid conflict.


Karan, The main issue is the date mentioned above. October 2020 is the period when US presidential elections will be held and Trump's first term will come to close. And I can't recall a president who has been so detached from Indian subcontinent geopolitical affairs, thereby giving us freer hand than ever before. While Trump might get elected again, you cannot count on it. The next president might get back to pro pakistan mode including reinstating aid money, rearmament and help in IMF loans, thereby giving them a new lease of life.

Now there is still 1.5 yrs approx before 2020 ends. We got to destroy and dismantle Pakistan before the next year ends, with whatever tools we got instead of waiting for the perfect situation. After that depending on the results of US presidential elections, this objective will get much more difficult.

YashG
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby YashG » 05 Jun 2019 08:37

https://www.dawn.com/news/1486603

Pakistan's defence budget is being reduced. The bowl gets smaller.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Khalsa » 05 Jun 2019 09:25

Voluntary!!
I laughed first then I realised it is the truth. Military realised this shit is unsustainable

Atmavik
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Atmavik » 05 Jun 2019 09:33

^^ i think this military cut is to please IMF. it will be business as usual

Rahul M
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Rahul M » 05 Jun 2019 10:05

Khalsa wrote:Voluntary!!
I laughed first then I realised it is the truth. Military realised this shit is unsustainable

any cuts woulds be made up by transferring costs to non-military budget items.

Kashi
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Kashi » 05 Jun 2019 10:30

Rahul M wrote:any cuts woulds be made up by transferring costs to non-military budget items.


..is right. Expect some Sialkoti stats to demonstrate that def budget is being trimmed, while a lot of expenses are taken off the books or assigned elsewhere.

Also expect the Baki "budget" to make increased allowances for "infrastructural and developmental programmes" that will absorb these "cuts". Also sure that IMF will "concur" with these changes.

rkhanna
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby rkhanna » 05 Jun 2019 10:39

Kashi wrote:
Rahul M wrote:any cuts woulds be made up by transferring costs to non-military budget items.


..is right. Expect some Sialkoti stats to demonstrate that def budget is being trimmed, while a lot of expenses are taken off the books or assigned elsewhere.

Also expect the Baki "budget" to make increased allowances for "infrastructural and developmental programmes" that will absorb these "cuts". Also sure that IMF will "concur" with these changes.


Don't forget that the Foundation is the single largest real estate and business owner in Pakistan

Khalsa
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Khalsa » 05 Jun 2019 13:59

The domestic economy is on the verge of collapse.
The IMF fund was requested because the Chinese and the Arabian loans/ baksheeshs were not enough or just covered the military funding which the domestic could not make up.

Now on top of that the country is spiralling towards the proverbial shit hole in terms of defence spending as the previous govts have worked hard Both NDA and UPA to get US to remove the extra discount when giving F-16 to fight TAF (Talib Air Force). That has been the actual killer why the relationship soured as well.

Now things become really unaffordable and guess where the annoyed teenager is back with once the parents cut off the weekend funding. They are back with the parents and asking for more money well this time they are asking IMF (mother).

This gives or provides the current US administration excellent opportunity to dictate the IMF terms and rumour mill has it inside Pakistan and India that US dictated to the Pakis that not only will you drag the taliban ass to the negotiating table, you will also tell them to agree to the condition dicatated by Afghanistan and US.

Never did US realise that by cutting off the discounts on hardware they will get a double win of getting Pak and ISI and Army on the negotiating table before the tabliban even walks into the room.

Honestly I am over the moon with the current situ in Pak.
Long live Pakistan Army and Long live the Lame Cricket Captain till the end of Pakistan.

ArjunPandit
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Jun 2019 16:45

Let me ask a ultra stupid action, what if some non-state actor one night blows 5-10 fizzleyas by a b'mos salvo or some loitering Nirbhays forget their way to pokharan and ends in sargodha at night ..where are are they gonna bring those shiny toys...

nam
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 05 Jun 2019 17:29

This PR about reducing defence budget means it is getting filled up other means.

The IMF deal is also in the pipeline, so US & Pak must have come up with a deal in Afghanistan.

Soon the Coalition "Support" fund will be restored. The defence budget must be getting filled up using CSF.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby yensoy » 05 Jun 2019 20:47

I think elephant in the room is understood by all, especially IK and his cronies, the IMF and a lot of the paki janta, so it was sort of inevitable for the pakfauj to make some conciliatory gestures.

But I am sure that in the greater scheme of things, this will only be yet another "short term loan" for Pakistan, this time from its military - whatever the budget reduction is will be compensated at a later stage with a much larger increase, a nice bonus payout to the top commanders, hundreds of kanals of land being allocated to them, shiny medals and recognition that "boys played well".


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