https://mobile.twitter.com/NaveedAliHer ... 3620139009
Azerbaijan to buy JF-17 Blok II combat aircraft from Pakistan | Jf17 Thunder | Urdu Hindi Tv: (link: http://youtu.be/57KE0fJhn4k?a) youtu.be/57KE0fJhn4k?a via
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Azerbaijan to buy JF-17 Blok II combat aircraft from Pakistan | Jf17 Thunder | Urdu Hindi Tv: (link: http://youtu.be/57KE0fJhn4k?a) youtu.be/57KE0fJhn4k?a via
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anupmisra wrote: I love this bit. Just love it.
ingeniouslydevelopingpainting [the] A-100 Rocket.
There! Corrected it.
lolManish_P wrote:anupmisra wrote: I love this bit. Just love it.
ingeniouslydevelopingpainting [the] A-100 Rocket.
There! Corrected it.
There are reports that couple of these are in unkil labs being dissected I do wonder who might have provided them...Austin wrote:PA testing its newly acquired LY 80 SAM from China , Video
https://twitter.com/Ali_answers/status/ ... 1465395202
One of the unknown in the comments among them is from yours truly.
Most of the Chinese achievement be it JF-17 or J20/31 has to do with extensive Spying operation of both Military and Civilian nature in the US that happened during the period of Obama Administration , Being Leftist in Ideology and Deeds the Dems have a very soft corner for the Chinese and they literally gave away all the top tech to chinese either in commercial deals or operation which were just labeled as Spying but no action was taken against any Chinese individual other then lecturing them on acting Good and conveniently hiding such Spying on enmass scale at Military and Commercial level to we need to train the Chinese to act good , they are next great power and lets not rock the boat we have great commercial relation with them........You will be hard pressed to find any single Dems even mildly comdeming Chinese action much less taking any strict action , The Dems favored focusing all their efforts on Russians and making them No 1 enemy of US while belittling every Chinese advancesKaran M wrote:. It is altogether a more potent aircraft, reminiscent of the Northrop F 20 Tigershark. Though Yang Wei, the Chief Designer, did not have access to the F 20 he may have had opportunity to examine ex Vietnam Air Force F 5A aircraft or airframes and why not-only an arrogant fool will not “flatter” a good piece of engineering by imitating? ")...ah, the great Yang Wei, the great Chinese..and the manner in which MiG was involved in hand holding the PRC to develop this aircraft is given a nice go by.
Nothing like that is going to happen. Dems will be silent about shafting the Chinese. eg: Prez Trump talks loudly about immigration crackdowns, while Prez Obama actually did massive crackdowns, quietly. Same for overseas action - a huge spike in furtive drone action replaced the PR issues around airstrikes.Austin wrote:If you noitce the pace of advancement Chinese made in last 10 years prior to 2015 that is the major time when they caught up economically and militarily..........if DT looses next time expect the chinese to make a great comeback
The very obvious possibility hat the original intake design sucked totally with the russian engines is lost on Prof. It is not like DSI was something not known since 80s. How come the chinese did not design theirs from ground up with that approach? His answer would be "because they developed in parallel" followed by the customary "unlike us"The second of his “coups de Main” was the introduction of the DSI after seven years of parallel preliminary work. DSI reduced weight and drag. Summing up: a very competent airframe has been designed on the lines of the Northrop F 20 but as with the F22/F31 resemblance the Chinese design somehow manages to look more elegant and dainty!
This paragraph takes the cake His article, shorn off its lingo-dropping, is one long raspberry at LCA program and nothing else, because other than dissing LCA, he is not shining any new light on Bunder's design that is not already known. And then this paragraph. Till then, he was gloating about LCA's various failures and delays. But by this para, he gets really angry and is advising at Indians chuckling about chino-paki hyperbole to stop laughing. He is claiming "You fail, you go" kind of harsh achievement-reward cycles happens only outside India, yet Marut provides an example in India of the exact same thing that happened in India. Similar things happened with first AEW team, Project Devil, RTA etc. And would have happened if the LCA had even a single hiccough, as this forum has constantly prophesied, biting our collective nails.There has been some gloating references on the Indian Net circles to the fact that Yang Wei has been recently severely criticized for the shortcomings of the J 20 ( AMCA team beware!).The Gloaters have missed the significant point. Weapons development Programmes are of National Importance and there is no room for fellowship if things are not delivered. “You fail; you go” is the grim rule for running successful programmes-outside of India.
A pilot of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) was martyred in an air crash near Balochistan's Mastung area on Wednesday.
The accident occurred during a training mission being carried out in a multi-role aircraft, said a statement issued by the Directorate of Media Affairs of PAF.
"The PAF reports with regret that an F-7PG aircraft, while on a routine operational training mission, crashed near Mastung," it said.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1459302/pilot ... ar-mastungF-7PGs were first inducted into the PAF in 2002 as a replacement for the F-6, which were then decommissioned. Later the force inducted the trainer FT-7PGs. The PAF had previously operated F-7Ps.
At least 13 F-7PGs/FT-7PGs have been lost during their 17 years in service. The PAF has more than 50 of the Chinese-made aircraft in its fleet.
Mollick.R wrote:Pilot martyred as PAF aircraft crashes near Mastung
A pilot of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) was martyred in an air crash near Balochistan's Mastung area on Wednesday.
The accident occurred during a training mission being carried out in a multi-role aircraft, said a statement issued by the Directorate of Media Affairs of PAF.
"The PAF reports with regret that an F-7PG aircraft, while on a routine operational training mission, crashed near Mastung," it said.https://www.dawn.com/news/1459302/pilot ... ar-mastungF-7PGs were first inducted into the PAF in 2002 as a replacement for the F-6, which were then decommissioned. Later the force inducted the trainer FT-7PGs. The PAF had previously operated F-7Ps.
At least 13 F-7PGs/FT-7PGs have been lost during their 17 years in service. The PAF has more than 50 of the Chinese-made aircraft in its fleet.
Obama didnt do any thing , Zilch Nada is the right word.hnair wrote:Nothing like that is going to happen. Dems will be silent about shafting the Chinese. eg: Prez Trump talks loudly about immigration crackdowns, while Prez Obama actually did massive crackdowns, quietly. Same for overseas action - a huge spike in furtive drone action replaced the PR issues around airstrikes.
When it comes to saving their "way of life" bacon, there is none better than DC establishment. Pakis truly believed Republicans will help them out, without realizing the transnational nature of DC
Qamar Bajwa's 'outreach' to Bipin Rawat likely to be stymied by bureaucracy, but keeping channel open a good idea
Tara Kartha
Jan 24, 2019
The Indian Army chief General Bipin Rawat’s statements often come thick and fast, but they’re usually newsworthy. Recently however, General Rawat was less focussed on hurling threats at Pakistan, and instead sought to clarify that a report in The New York Times which alleged he had been quietly approached by the Pakistani Army chief General Qamar Bajwa for talks, was completely incorrect. The media house then reported that General Bajwa reached out to his counterpart well before the general elections that brought Prime Minister Imran Khan to power. It then went to state rather curiously that “a key objective for Pakistan in reaching out to India is to open barriers to trade between the countries, which would give Pakistan more access to regional markets. Any eventual peace talks over Kashmir are likely to involve an increase in bilateral trade as a confidence-building measure”.
Now that’s curious. While the military in Pakistan is all-encompassing in its “interests” at a national level, it is hardly General Rawat’s brief to talk trade with his counterpart. It is undoubtedly true that Pakistan’s chief is now showing a healthy interest in trade and investment issues, since he is fast realising that the key to getting a better deal for his institution lies in reviving the lagging Pakistani economy.
His speech to the Pakistan Chambers of Commerce and Industry in October 2017 underlined his concern at Pakistan’s “sky-high debt”, warning that “the region will sink or sail together. I want to convey to our neighbours to the east and to the west that our destinies are inextricably linked”. At the end of his speech, Bajwa added that the springboard for this shared development was the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC). In other words, the chief seemed to be not only opting for opening up trade with neighbours, he was also selling the CPEC as a vehicle to do so.
That’s a lot for any army chief to say. Certainly, General Rawat, for all his eloquence and all too frequent chats with the press, can hardly draw such grand designs without clearance from half a dozen ministries. So the question is: What was the objective of the Pakistani Army chief in reaching out to his counterpart, when he would know full well that the Indian Army is very properly (and rigorously) bounded about by the civilian bureaucracy and the political leadership as befits a democracy? Military to military” talks — or ‘mil to mil” as they are called — are hardly ever precursors to a formal political dialogue.
It’s usually the politicos who sit together first, and then later — much later — the militaries sit down and talk to each other, usually on subjects linked to their domains. None of this is to say that militaries don’t talk to each other at all. But these issues are usually single subject meetings: like flag meetings to discuss border violations. For instance, a flag meeting at the Brigade-level was held in Poonch just two months ago, to discuss “how to strengthen the ceasefire”. That’s politesse. The reality is that the one probably inflicted one too many losses on the other, and there was a decision to fend off any possible escalation. That’s fairly standard stuff, and hardly the kind of reaching out that the Pakistani chief has in mind.
While considering the Pakistani Army chief's motives, the underlying fact remains that talking to the centre of power in Pakistan is very much in India’s interest. That just about everyone else sees it as in their respective interest is apparent in the fact that every foreign diplomat worth his salt will make his bow to the civilian leadership, and then hasten to army headquarters to get the real lowdown on what’s possible and what’s not with regard to a bilateral relationship on in wheeling and dealing on Afghanistan.
So while agreeing the ‘mil to mil’ talks are desirable, the problem remains how to get it off the ground in a situation where the politicians can't (or won't) talk to each other. In such a scenario, it is possible for the two chiefs to meet quietly at another location in much the same way as the two National Security Advisors of India and Pakistan have met in Bangkok and other such convenient cities. Alternatively, they could meet at a location where both army chiefs are present in an official capacity. There is no shortage of locations. The point is what subject they are to discuss.
NSAs on both sides can and do talk freely. But with all due respect, the Indian Army chief is hardly capable of having dialogue with authority on any other subject other than war-making or its avoidance. Other than that, the only other subject that could possibly be discussed is Kashmir, which the army knows and knows well. And in the final analysis, that is all there is to discuss: not in its substance, but quite literally in its terms of reference.
In other words, is Pakistan willing to go ahead with resolution of Sir Creek for instance, and open up trade while putting aside the issue of Kashmir? It’s a black and white situation, with the Indian Army chief only required to assess his opposite number’s position on this vital question. Other add-ons — like Indian involvement in CPEC — has to await entirely separate dialogues, probably with the Chinese rather than Islamabad.
And finally, while in Pakistan the army decides what it is going to talk about, in India it is the bureaucracy that takes the final call. So the actual question is whether any bureaucrat worth his sacrosanct file will allow this kind of leeway to a rather more than loquacious army chief. That answer is probably a resounding 'no'. That’s regrettable. Talking to the top is always a good idea, even if you have to crane your neck while doing it.
Vips wrote:The increasing Chinese footprint in Islamabad.
tough for Muslims back home, they would prefer to stay on in Pakistan,” says Tong. (Smart chinese might be upto something here under the guise of friendship and fee movement it may be hoping that more and more of its muslim population moves to pakistan!!!)
I am of the view dropping nuke on their own territory is quite smart. It kills two birds. Attack on our forces and the biggest one: Victimhood.Rakesh wrote:They will not launch the missile until the CS force is well within their territory. The foolishness of Nasr with TNW is that Pakistan will be the only nation to drop a TNW on her own territory. The PA have really thought this through!
India's retaliation will be swift and massive. Pakistan existence - at least, as we know it - would be in serious doubt. That would put Chinese investment at great risk as well. Has the PA got permission from their Chinese master for such a foolish adventure?
Well did they think through kargil or any other misadventure they were doing? It is the easiest for them to do. Afterall, India is not going going to give them more water under IWT and apart from china no one is investing there. Get rid of local abduls and get more money in future from Sauds, Americans and Japanese.They will nuke themselves and for next 5000 years claim themselves to be the victim of Indian nuclear attack. I doubt they would just start at TNW and stop there, like cockroaches, their survival instincts are very strong. They will probably go for a full spectrum along with that. IMHO, it will start with a random abdul with command of NASR will unleash it and then the pindi gas inflated guys will realize their time might be up so use it before they lose it all. We need to be prepared to take massive hits. But just make ensure that not even an ameoba grows there for next 100 yearsRakesh wrote: The PA have really thought this through!
They will face serious consequences either way. As you already know, India has a no-first use policy. So if we extrapolate that policy into the scenarios below, this will occur;nam wrote:I am of the view dropping nuke on their own territory is quite smart. It kills two birds. Attack on our forces and the biggest one: Victimhood.
If they drop the nuke on our territory, we get to be the victim. And Pak faces the consequences.
In Point 1, we do not need their nukes really. Terrorist organizations may want them, but our nukes are sufficient enough.nam wrote:I have been trying to think about this nuke dropping business.
Suppose Pak drops nuke on our forces. India has two choices.
1. Flatten entire Pak and get some nukes in return.
2. Not respond with a nuke. This is a interesting scenario. Not responding would give us a carte blanche of doing a "WW2 style Germany" on Pak. India could announce that it does not want "Nuclear holocaust", however it will be expect the world to "de-nuke & disarm Pak" or India will itself hunt down every armed Adbul in Pak, no matter the cost. Please don't blame us, as we are the victim.
Every "guardians" of this world like US, French, Brit will be under tremendous pressure to not to let Pak get away with using nuke. From our point of view, using Option 1 would mean loss of lives and resources. However it is the easiest option and both us and Pak be the victim.
Option 2 lets us be the victim, get all the aid for being the victim, disarm Pak and make it our "Gaza strip". We mount regular Israel style air raids to prevent "another holocaust". All of these with potentially less loss of resources compared to 1.
Dropping a nuclear weapon is no joke. And Pakistani nuclear weapons are at the least more powerful than the ones dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And Indian Nuclear weapons are no different. And like I told nam, they will not be alive to play the victim. Forget 5,000 years! They will not be alive for much long - if they already have not been vaporized from the initial blast - to play victim. The Indian response at their population centres will be quite devastating for them, to formulate any response that anyone will listen.ArjunPandit wrote:Well did they think through kargil or any other misadventure they were doing? It is the easiest for them to do. Afterall, India is not going going to give them more water under IWT and apart from china no one is investing there. Get rid of local abduls and get more money in future from Sauds, Americans and Japanese.They will nuke themselves and for next 5000 years claim themselves to be the victim of Indian nuclear attack. I doubt they would just start at TNW and stop there, like cockroaches, their survival instincts are very strong. They will probably go for a full spectrum along with that. IMHO, it will start with a random abdul with command of NASR will unleash it and then the pindi gas inflated guys will realize their time might be up so use it before they lose it all. We need to be prepared to take massive hits. But just make ensure that not even an ameoba grows there for next 100 yearsRakesh wrote: The PA have really thought this through!
No, if India makes it clear that tact nukes on Indian troops in Pakistan means the end of Pakiland then the Pakis will go full nuclear on CS.Rakesh wrote:Dropping a nuclear weapon is no joke. And Pakistani nuclear weapons are at the least more powerful than the ones dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And Indian Nuclear weapons are no different. And like I told nam, they will not be alive to play the victim. Forget 5,000 years! They will not be alive for much long - if they already have not been vaporized from the initial blast - to play victim. The Indian response at their population centres will be quite devastating for them, to formulate any response that anyone will listen.ArjunPandit wrote: Well did they think through kargil or any other misadventure they were doing? It is the easiest for them to do. Afterall, India is not going going to give them more water under IWT and apart from china no one is investing there. Get rid of local abduls and get more money in future from Sauds, Americans and Japanese.They will nuke themselves and for next 5000 years claim themselves to be the victim of Indian nuclear attack. I doubt they would just start at TNW and stop there, like cockroaches, their survival instincts are very strong. They will probably go for a full spectrum along with that. IMHO, it will start with a random abdul with command of NASR will unleash it and then the pindi gas inflated guys will realize their time might be up so use it before they lose it all. We need to be prepared to take massive hits. But just make ensure that not even an ameoba grows there for next 100 years
Yes, TSP cannot come out on top. But that’s not the point. The threat is that it will go nuclear at any invasion of sacred Paki territory. This means it will blunt any kind of decisive conventional action because it will be worth potentially sacrificing millions to annihilate Pakistan.Rakesh wrote:Chola, that is semantics. There is no scenario in which Pakistan will come out on top - even in the afterlife - in the event of a nuclear exchange with India.
Problems with TNW is that they are always considered a strategic threat, not a tactical threat (and will result in MAD if ever used). Their use in saturated fire will have the same effect as any big nuke attack. Hence the deterrence factor.chola wrote:Yes, TSP cannot come out on top. But that’s not the point. The threat is that it will go nuclear at any invasion of sacred Paki territory. This means it will blunt any kind of decisive conventional action because it will be worth potentially sacrificing millions to annihilate Pakistan.Rakesh wrote:Chola, that is semantics. There is no scenario in which Pakistan will come out on top - even in the afterlife - in the event of a nuclear exchange with India.
Unless we are as psycho as Mao’s PRC and willing to accept an exchange of several hundred nukes just because we’ll still have some people standing when its over all then Cold Start can never really be implemented.
The only reason Saddam and Qadafi are dead through regime change while Fatty Kim still holds sway in Noko is because the first two only pursued nooks Kim actually has them. The same protection is accorded the Pig State whether we like it or not. Once there are nooks, there cannot be decisive conventional war IMO.
From here:Govt to pay Rs3.6 trillion on defence, debt servicing
By Shahbaz Rana Published: February 7, 2019
ISLAMABAD: The federal government would pay a whopping Rs3.6 trillion on account of defence and debt servicing that is equal to 68.2% of the current fiscal year’s revised budget, the centre on Wednesday sensitised the provinces about the grave fiscal situation that has thrown the country into a debt trap.
After excluding debt servicing and defence related obligations, the net federal revenues for fiscal year 2018-19 are negative Rs632 billion, Federal Secretary Finance Arif Ahmad Khan briefed the four provinces during the first meeting of the ninth National Finance Commission (NFC).
The NFC meeting included a detailed presentation by the federal finance secretary, focusing on the country’s overall current fiscal position.
The federal government’s total gross revenues are estimated at Rs5.5 trillion. Out of this sum, the provinces will get Rs2.581 trillion as their share in the federal divisible pool. This leaves the net federal revenues at Rs3 trillion but the cumulative spending on just two heads – debt and defence – is Rs3.62 trillion.
Since the debt and defence spending are equal to 121% of the net federal revenues, the finance ministry borrows to pay salaries, pensions, run hospitals, schools and build roads. Every penny that the centre spends on development is borrowed from the banks and foreign lenders.
Pakistan’s debt and liabilities surge to Rs31 trillion
Compared with negative Rs632-billion revenue of the federal government, the net revenue, after excluding interest payments of the provinces, is positive Rs583 billion for this fiscal year. Under the existing constitutional arrangement, defence is the responsibility of the centre.
Against the stated defence budget of Rs1.1 trillion, the finance ministry told the NFC that by the end of fiscal year 2019, Rs1.676 trillion would be spent on defence that is equal to 31.5% of the federal budget. This is the second biggest charge on the budget after debt servicing.
The Rs1.676-trillion defence expenditures are inclusive of pensions, strategic nature expenses and special military packages, according to the finance ministry’s presentation.
Similarly, against Rs1.842-trillion budgeted cost of debt servicing, the finance ministry told the provinces that the debt servicing would consume minimum Rs1.95 trillion, or 36.6%, of the total budget. The central bank’s decision to increase interest rates also put additional burden of roughly Rs500 billion on the finance ministry due to high cost of borrowing.
Pakistan to pay China $40b on $26.5b CPEC investments in 20 years
The cumulative spending on these debt and defence has been projected at Rs3.621 trillion, or 68.2%, of the budget by the finance ministry.
Such an alarming situation of the federal fiscal operations showed that the centre was not in a position to surrender any amount out of its 42.5% share in the federal divisible pool. But the provinces want to increase their pie.
The finance ministry has projected the size of the budget at Rs5.38 trillion for this fiscal year and showed the federal fiscal deficit at Rs2.4 trillion or 6.3% of GDP.
“Until resources are increased, neither the provinces nor the centre can achieve its targets,” said Finance Minister Asad Umar after the NFC meeting.
Punjab’s technical member NFC Dr Salman Shah said the overall debt has increased to Rs30 trillion and this carried huge implications for the federal government as someone has to finance it.
The finance ministry took a position in the NFC that the fiscal sustainability was at the heart of the economic and social management. It was of the view that imprudent fiscal management led to worsening external account, unsustainable economic growth and increase in prices and accumulation of debt.
In its presentation, the Ministry of Finance projected the FBR’s revenues at Rs4.417 trillion while the other revenues were shown at Rs1.15 trillion. The gross revenue receipts that were equal to 12.1% of GDP in 2012 have now increased to Rs14.8% of GDP.
But the stick and inelasticity in expenditures, like defence and debt servicing, kept the budget deficit towards the higher end. The total federal expenditures that were Rs3 trillion or equal to 15.2% of GDP in 2012 have now increased to Rs5.4 trillion. The high debt and defence servicing adversely impacted the federal development spending that was Rs317 billion, or 1.6%, of GDP in 2012 will now go down to 1.5% of GDP at the end of this fiscal year. In absolute terms, the finance ministry has projected the federal development spending at Rs575 billion in this fiscal year.
Total gross revenues of the four provinces have been projected at only Rs654 billion in this fiscal year. The four provinces have been projected to pay Rs71 billion in interest payments, leaving their net revenues, excluding interest payments at Rs583 billion.
But Sindh Chief Minister Murad Ali Shah on Wednesday blamed the FBR for this poor fiscal performance. He was of the view that the provinces showed 26% growth in collection of sales tax on services during the past five years, which was double the growth rate in collection of sales tax on goods by the FBR.
Published in The Express Tribune, February 7th, 2019.
The 2018-19 Paki budget had an outlay of ~ $43 billionThakur_B wrote:^ that is a massive amount spent on defence as a percentage of budget. Recently saw a snippet somewhere that Indian Defence budgeted expenditure is more than entire pakistan govt budgeted expenditure.