Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 10 Aug 2018 14:25

x posted from the OBOR thread

Financial Times: Chinese Officials “Awed” by Trump’s “Skill as a Strategist and Tactician”

Posted on July 26, 2018 by Yves Smith

A Financial Times article, The Chinese are wary of Donald Trump’s creative destruction, by Mark Leonard, director of the European Council on Foreign Relations, is so provocative, in terms of the contrast with Western perceptions of Trump, that I am quoting from it at some length.

According to Leonard, quite a few key players in China see Trump as having a coherent geopolitical agenda, with reducing China’s influence as a key objective, and that he is doing an effective job of implementation. From his Financial Times piece:

I have just spent a week in Beijing talking to officials and intellectuals, many of whom are awed by his [Trump’s] skill as a strategist and tactician…..

Few Chinese think that Mr Trump’s primary concern is to rebalance the bilateral trade deficit….They think the US president’s goal is nothing less than remaking the global order.

They think Mr Trump feels he is presiding over the relative decline of his great nation. It is not that the current order does not benefit the US. The problem is that it benefits others more in relative terms. To make things worse the US is investing billions of dollars and a fair amount of blood in supporting the very alliances and international institutions that are constraining America and facilitating China’s rise.

In Chinese eyes, Mr Trump’s response is a form of “creative destruction”. He is systematically destroying the existing institutions….as a first step towards renegotiating the world order on terms more favourable to Washington.

Once the order is destroyed, the Chinese elite believes, Mr Trump will move to stage two: renegotiating America’s relationship with other powers. Because the US is still the most powerful country in the world, it will be able to negotiate with other countries from a position of strength if it deals with them one at a time rather than through multilateral institutions that empower the weak at the expense of the strong.

My interlocutors….describe him as a master tactician, focusing on one issue at a time, and extracting as many concessions as he can. They speak of the skilful way Mr Trump has treated President Xi Jinping. “Look at how he handled North Korea,” one says. “He got Xi Jinping to agree to UN sanctions [half a dozen] times, creating an economic stranglehold on the country. China almost turned North Korea into a sworn enemy of the country.” But they also see him as a strategist, willing to declare a truce in each area when there are no more concessions to be had, and then start again with a new front.

For the Chinese, even Mr Trump’s sycophantic press conference with Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, in Helsinki had a strategic purpose. They see it as Henry Kissinger in reverse. In 1972, the US nudged China off the Soviet axis in order to put pressure on its real rival, the Soviet Union. Today Mr Trump is reaching out to Russia in order to isolate China.

In fact, Trump made clear on the campaign trail that he wanted to normalize relations with Russia because he saw China as the much bigger threat to US interests, and that the US could not afford to be taking them both on at the same time. He also regarded Russia as having more in common culturally with the US than China, and thus a more natural ally. Given the emphasis that Trump has placed on US trade deficits as a symbol of the US making deals that are to America’s disadvantage, by exporting US jobs,

However, even if the Chinese are right, and there is more method to Trump’s madness than his apparent erraticness would have you believe, there are still fatal flaws in his throwing bombs at international institutions.

As anyone who has done a renovation knows, the teardown in the easy part. Building is hard. And while the young Trump that pulled off the Grand Hyatt deal had a great deal of creativity and acumen, early successes appear to have gone to Trump’s head. He did manage to get out of the early 1990s real estate downturn in far better shape than most New York City developers by persuading lenders that his name was so critical to the value of his holdings that creditors needed to cut him some slack. But the older Trump has left a lot of money on the table, such as with The Apprentice, by not even knowing what norma were to press for greatly improved terms.

The fact that the half-life of membership on Trump’s senior team seems to be under a year does not bode well for establishing new frameworks, since they require consistency of thought and action. And the fact that Trump has foreign policy thugs operatives like John Bolton and Nikki Haley in important roles works against setting new foundations.

So even if the Chinese are right and Trump has been executing well on his master geopolitical plan, Trump is at best capable of delivering only on the easy, destructive part, and will leave his successors to clean up his mess.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Trikaal » 10 Aug 2018 15:00

All these articles of discontent and Trump awe seem to be a part of psyops from either side. It could be to placate Trump by praising him in media(less likely) or part of American strategy to sow discontent(more likely).

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 10 Aug 2018 17:32

Trikaal wrote:All these articles of discontent and Trump awe seem to be a part of psyops from either side. It could be to placate Trump by praising him in media(less likely) or part of American strategy to sow discontent(more likely).


why would US govt honchos take inputs from the press when they have access to the real deal??.

Try and see this as a part of Trump's overall disruption in many other markets as well and not something specifically confined to china.

The chinese are not risk takers in the same sense that the amerikis are.

The chinese cover their bases as well as their arses before making any move. There is a long time frame, long gestation period as well as a largely consensual approach to their ventures.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Trikaal » 10 Aug 2018 20:58

chetak wrote:
Trikaal wrote:All these articles of discontent and Trump awe seem to be a part of psyops from either side. It could be to placate Trump by praising him in media(less likely) or part of American strategy to sow discontent(more likely).


why would US govt honchos take inputs from the press when they have access to the real deal??.

Try and see this as a part of Trump's overall disruption in many other markets as well and not something specifically confined to china.

The chinese are not risk takers in the same sense that the amerikis are.

The chinese cover their bases as well as their arses before making any move. There is a long time frame, long gestation period as well as a largely consensual approach to their ventures.


Trump is well known to be influenced by talk shows like Fox and Friends. It has been ridiculed a lot in their media, so much so that Jon Oliver even bought ad segment on Fox and Friends to advise Trump on policy matters as a gag. So it is not completely implausible for the chinese to use media outlets to placate Trump without losing face.

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 11 Aug 2018 05:57

X Posted on the Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis Thread

Chinese Muslims protest against plan to demolish mosque

BEIJING: Hundreds of ethnic Hui Muslims are staging a sit-in protest in China’s western region of Ningxia against government plans to demolish a huge new mosque, amid tightening curbs on Islam to pull its practice in line with the Chinese mainstream. The Worm Has Turned!

China officially guarantees freedom of religion, but in recent years officials nervous about the possibility of radicalisation and violence have tightened controls in heavily Muslim areas.

Muslims in China’s Linxia region fear eradication of Islam

The Weizhou grand mosque, with numerous domes and minaretsin a Middle Eastern style, had not received proper permits before construction, officials in the town of Weizhou said in a notice on August 3. The mosque would be forcibly demolished on Friday, they added in the notice, widely circulated among Chinese Muslims on social media. Most Mosque Built in India are without Proper Planning Permission!

The order provoked anger among villagers, but talks between mosque representatives and officials have failed to reach agreement, as worshippers rejected a government plan to spare the mosque if its domes were replaced with pagodas more in keeping with Chinese style, one source in the area told Reuters.

Hundreds of villagers were gathering at the mosque on Friday morning, and the town’s mayor was expected to hold discussions in the afternoon, added the source, who requested anonymity.

“If we sign, we are selling out our religious faith,” a Weizhou mosque supporter said in a note on messaging app WeChat that was seen by Reuters, urging villagers not to sign on to the mosque rebuilding plan. “I can’t talk about this issue,” said Ding Xuexiao, the mosque’s director, when reached by telephone. Mosque imam Ma Liguo said the situation was “currently being coordinated”. Neither of the men would elaborate. There was a protest at the mosque on Friday, a man at a government religious office in the county, the Islamic Association, confirmed, adding that the government only wanted the structure “renovated to reduce its scale”.

“The work with the public is ongoing. There has not been a specific consensus reached on the rectification plan,” said the man, who declined to be identified. Reuters could not immediately reach the Weizhou government to seek comment and officials in the surrounding county of Tongxin declined to comment.

Videos on social media on Thursday, which Reuters could not independently verify, showed large crowds gathered outside the mosque and police vans parked nearby. The protest appeared to be peaceful.

Arrests skyrocketed in China’s Muslim far west in 2017

Senior Chinese officials have urged Muslims to guard against creeping extremism, such as foreign styles copied on mosques, and strive to practice their faith in a more ‘Chinese’ way. Well-integrated in society with decades of smooth ties with the government, many Hui have watched with detachment as authorities have subjected the far western region of Xinjiang and its Uighur Muslims to near-martial law, with armed police checkpoints, reeducation centres, and mass DNA collection.

The treatment of Uighurs has spurred an international outcry, with US officials saying tens of thousands of people have been detained in Xinjiang’s detention centres.

But Beijing’s policy of ‘Sinification’ of religion has increasingly alarmed many Hui, who fear it is widening its strict measures in Xinjiang to additional Muslim areas, such as Ningxia and neighbouring Gansu province.

In the crackdown, the government has banned religious education for young people in mosques, ordered that the call to prayer over loudspeakers be silenced, and sought to stamp out what it sees as Arab elements in mosques.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 11 Aug 2018 14:35

India watching China’s measures to ease drug-import norms - Amiti Sen, Business Line
Keen to seize the opportunity to export pharmaceuticals to China, the Commerce Ministry is following up with Beijing the steps being taken to ease imports of pharmaceuticals from India after a recent meeting between the Chinese regulator and Indian industry on the issue.

“In June, pharmaceutical exporters from India had meetings with representatives from the China Food & Drugs Administration (CFDA) on the problems being faced by them in the Chinese market. China has now agreed to another visit by an Indian pharmaceutical delegation to Shanghai later this month. The Commerce Ministry is trying to follow up on the matter to expedite action on easing of regulations,” a government official told BusinessLine.


At the joint economic group meeting, chaired by the Trade Ministers of India and China, earlier this year in New Delhi, pharmaceuticals was one of the sectors, in addition to rice and IT, which were highlighted by India as the areas where China could increase its imports {We have been saying this for a decade now and China has been sonewalling} in order to address the growing trade deficit which has crossed $60 billion. Indian generic exporters have been finding it difficult to enter the Chinese market as the clearance process can taken up to five years and there are also problems related to commercialisation of a drug.

“In the June meeting, the CFDA showed its willingness to take steps to speed up clearances. It needs to be seen what steps have been taken to achieve that,” the official said. The Commerce Ministry is in touch with the CFDA on the issue, he added.

Meagre exports

Because of the non-tariff barriers, Indian companies exported pharmaceuticals worth just $27 million to China in 2017-18, which was less than 2 per cent of its total exports of drugs worth $17 billion. On the other hand, India annually imports intermediates and APIs (active pharmaceutical ingredients) from China worth $2 billion.

Anti-cancer drugs

China recently exempted 28 anti-cancer drugs from import duties, but India can take advantage only when the regulatory hurdles are removed.

“The pharmaceutical delegation visit to China later in August is to focus on anti-cancer drugs and antibiotics, among others. We certainly hope that changes are made in Chinese regulations so that exports can start soon. The Indian Embassy in Beijing is also keeping tab on the developments,” the official said.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 11 Aug 2018 14:42

Eastern Army Commander heads for China, defence minister to visit Delhi - Economic Times
India and China will be engaged in a series of military related confidence building measures (CBMs) over the next two weeks, including visit by Chinese defence minister to Delhi in the backdrop of the Wuhan Summit that gave strategic guidance to the two militaries.

A four-member Indian Army delegation headed by Eastern Army Commander Lt Gen Abhay Krishna will be going on a “goodwill visit” to China from August 13 to 19. Incidentally, Dokalam falls under the Eastern Command.

It will be the first such visit after the 2017 Dokalam (standoff) which is under India's eastern army command. The delegation will be visiting four cities in China- Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu and Lhasa.

ET has learnt that during Chinese defence minister Wei Fenghe's visit, both sides will attempt to resolve differences in setting up of a hotline between the armies of the two countries.

The initiative hit a roadblock over differences between the two sides on issues relating to protocol and technical aspect of the hotline.
This is the first high level visit from China since Wuhan Summit and subsequent Modi-Xi meetings aimed at stabilising ties in backdrop of Dokalam episode.

The Indian Army has been maintaining that the hotline should be between its Director General of Military Operations (DGMO) and his equivalent official in People’s Liberation Army (PLA), while Beijing proposed that deputy commander of its Chengdu-based Western Theatre Command would engage with the Indian DGMO, persons familiar with the process indicated.

It is learnt that Chinese PLA has also conveyed to Indian Army that they do not have any DGMO in its headquarters and that it was favouring engaging the Western Theatre Command in charge of the Sino-India border.

However, the Indian side feels that the protocol must be maintained and equating the Indian Army headquarters to PLA's Western Theatre Command in Chengdu was not proper. There were also certain issues relating to engaging translators for Mandarin and English by the two sides. India and Pakistan have a hotline between their DGMOs.

The hotline between India and China was first mooted by the two countries in 2013. A slew of other issues like ways to improve coordination between the two militaries along the border will also figure in talks Wei will have with his counterpart Nirmala Sitharaman.

Earlier an eight-member Chinese military delegation led by Lt Gen Liu Xiaowu, Deputy Commander of Western Theatre Command, visited India in June as a follow-up to the Wuhan summit between Modi and Xi. The delegation also went to Kolkata, where the headquarters of the Eastern Army Command is located.

While South Korean Defence Minister is currently visiting India, Japanese Defence Minister will be here ahead of his Chinese counterpart.

With Japan India is exploring defence purchases and technology transfer based on similar geo-political approaches. India and Japan are seeking to expand joint defence exercises besides partnership in the seas to monitor underwater activities.

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 11 Aug 2018 17:13

UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

GENEVA: A United Nations human rights panel said on Friday that it had received many credible reports that 1 million ethnic Uighurs in China are held in what resembles a “massive internment camp that is shrouded in secrecy.”

Gay McDougall, a member of the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, cited estimates that 2 million Uighurs and Muslim minorities were forced into “political camps for indoctrination” in the western Xinjiang autonomous region.

“We are deeply concerned at the many numerous and credible reports that we have received that in the name of combating religious extremism and maintaining social stability (China) has changed the Uighur autonomous region into something that resembles a massive internship camp that is shrouded in secrecy, a sort of ‘no rights zone’,” she told the start of a two-day regular review of China’s record, including Hong Kong and Macao.

China has said that Xinjiang faces a serious threat from militants and separatists who plot attacks and stir up tensions between the mostly Muslim Uighur minority who call the region home and the ethnic Han Chinese majority.

‘Eradicate the tumours’: Chinese civilians drive Xinjiang brutal crackdown

A Chinese delegation of some 50 officials made no comment on her remarks at the Geneva session that is scheduled to continue on Monday.

The US mission to the United Nations said on Twitter that it was “deeply troubled by reports of an ongoing crackdown on Uighurs and other Muslims in China.”

“We call on China to end their counterproductive policies and free all of those who have been arbitrarily detained,” the US mission said.

The allegations came from multiple sources, including activist group Chinese Human Rights Defenders, which said in a report last month that 21 per cent of all arrests recorded in China in 2017 were in Xinjiang.

Earlier, Yu Jianhua, China’s ambassador to the United Nations in Geneva, said it was working toward equality and solidarity among all ethnic groups.

But McDougall said that members of the Uighur community and other Muslims were being treated as “enemies of the state” solely on the basis of their ethno-religious identity.

More than 100 Uighur students who returned to China from countries including Egypt and Turkey had been detained, with some dying in custody, she said.

Fatima-Binta Dah, a panel member, referred to “arbitrary and mass detention of almost 1 million Uighurs” and asked the Chinese delegation, “What is the level of religious freedom available now to Uighurs in China, what legal protection exists for them to practice their religion?”

Panelists also raised reports of mistreatment of Tibetans in the autonomous region, including inadequate use of the Tibetan language in the classroom and at court proceedings.

“The UN body maintained its integrity, the government got a very clear message,” Golok Jigme, a Tibetan monk and former prisoner living in exile, told Reuters at the meeting.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 12 Aug 2018 10:45

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy ... as-project
China’s CNPC ‘takes over Total’s share in big Iran gas project’

Total signed a contract in 2017 to develop Phase II of South Pars field with an initial investment of US$1 billion, marking the first major Western energy investment in the country after sanctions were lifted in 2016. South Pars has the world’s biggest natural gas reserves ever found in one place.

But the French company had said it would pull out unless it secured a US sanctions waiver, and Gholamreza Manouchehri, deputy head of the National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC), said in June that if Total were to walk away, then CNPC would take over.

“China National Petroleum Corp (CNPC) has replaced Total of France with an 80.1 per cent stake in the phase 11 of the South Pars (gas field),” IRNA quoted Mohammad Mostafavi, director of investment of Iran’s state oil firm NIOC, as saying.

<snip>

There was no immediate confirmation of the IRNA report by CNPC, which earlier held a 30 per cent stake in the project and has now taken over Total’s 50.1 per cent share, according to IRNA. The remainder is held by Iran’s Petropars.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 12 Aug 2018 15:48

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/ ... bUNIQID%5d
Xi Jinping's Path for China
There seems to be trouble on the horizon for China and President Xi Jinping. A year ago, when I visited my country, I sensed an upbeat attitude about the future, with public and media discourse dominated by discussions of China's meteoric international rise. When I returned this year, however, I sensed uncertainty.

<snip>

This is not a huge surprise. Escalating U.S. trade attacks have exposed to the Chinese public the gap between China's real and perceived levels of development, and they have also coincided with the country's slowing economy.

<snip>

Xi's campaign for a more proactive and expansionist foreign policy also faces criticism. Some have accused the Communist Party's propaganda system of overemphasizing China's strength abroad, thus inviting pushback from global powers wary of China's intentions. Those within the country who worry China has gone too far in its global expansion efforts have suggested that it might benefit from a return to Deng Xiaoping's dictum of hiding China's strength and biding its time.

<snip>

So how did China get here, and why? Since the beginning of his rule, Xi sought a very different path than his predecessors for shaping China. Internally, he has taken bold steps to rebuild his country's trade- and debt-driven economy and reshape the elite political system from a communal structure to one ruled by a strongman. Internationally, he aspires to shift the country from a passive global player into a strong and assertive power. Each of these changes, however, come with the risk of miscalculations and unintended consequences that could eventually endanger Xi's own position of power.

<snip>

On the economic front, massive debt risk and industrial overcapacity loom over China, in large part a result of the credit and infrastructure boom that the country experienced after the 2008 financial crisis. And after six years of relatively stable growth of around 7 percent, the economy is finally taking a hit, because of its own battle against debt and the trade war with the United States. Moreover, domestic consumption has yet to live up to expectations, and Beijing's dream of a nation with cutting-edge technological capabilities remains at least a decade off.

My estimate was between 10-20 years as noted on last page of this thread in one of my previous cross post. 10 Years if there is no further progress in the Western block while China moves to close the gap. 20 years more reasonably for China to come to par with the Western block with the understanding that the West will try it utmost to maintain its lead.

Further, being at par with the western block technologically will not garuntee a Global dominance or even a lead but China will get the edge for further/future advancement given its economic lead/muscle as compared to any other country in the world at that time i.e in 20 years.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ramana » 13 Aug 2018 07:20

OBOR failure can.lead to PRC collapse

https://twitter.com/YusufDFI/status/102 ... 59840?s=19

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby TKiran » 13 Aug 2018 09:12

ramana wrote:OBOR failure can.lead to PRC collapse

https://twitter.com/YusufDFI/status/102 ... 59840?s=19

What is missing in the article is that there's no investment in OBOR.

Investment means, you spend your resources, such as money, or materials or something similar to some other entity other than you, and hope that all the ducks would line up and you make tons of profits in the end. If for any reason, you don't get anything in return, you loose all your investment, and you are broke.

But China doesn't invest anything in OBOR. It simply says that the project is worth $10bilions, but not a single penny is invested. They use their prisoners as labour, they charge the local governments for the labour. They take raw material from from a country (for free), convert into finished goods sell them back a small fraction of finished goods, the remaining 90% they use it elsewhere and charge for that. All companies are party companies, all profits are for party, all losses are for the creditors ( don't think that Chinese banks are creditors, they just print currency and manipulate, there's no loss there)

It's such a fraud that the CEO s of other companies from West know very well about in China, but they encouraged such behaviour in the hope that one day things would become more like in West. That's wrong.

There's different meaning for everything finance in China. Investment means creative "loot". Trade means "selling something they have in excess" to other people (non Han). Infrastructure development means "keeping Han people busy (you can call it employment for Han)"

When you don't understand all the meanings of Chinese vocabulary, people like yousufDFI occassionally appear with articles like these and the people who want China to collapse on it's own without engineering such a collapse (believe me there are tons of such people in this very forum), they hear what they want to hear and cheer with chilled beer.

Simply put, OBOR is intended for other sovereign countries to fail and default and loose their sovereignty to China.

If at all PRC has to collapse on it's own, only possibility is an unintended war with some other country initiated by China.

Doklam was such an opportunity, if we stayed put at the site for another year or so, China would have initiated military action, and that could have been the end of PRC. Another opportunity was when ICJ awarded the coral reefs to Philippines, they could have sent the army to occupy those.

There will be such opportunities in near future too, it all depends on how the Chinese diplomacy defuses such situations without going to war.

But if they choose war, everyone will gangup against China, and PRC would collapse as it exists today.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 13 Aug 2018 13:21

TKiran wrote:
ramana wrote:OBOR failure can.lead to PRC collapse

https://twitter.com/YusufDFI/status/102 ... 59840?s=19

What is missing in the article is that there's no investment in OBOR.

Investment means, you spend your resources, such as money, or materials or something similar to some other entity other than you, and hope that all the ducks would line up and you make tons of profits in the end. If for any reason, you don't get anything in return, you loose all your investment, and you are broke.

But China doesn't invest anything in OBOR. It simply says that the project is worth $10bilions, but not a single penny is invested. They use their prisoners as labour, they charge the local governments for the labour. They take raw material from from a country (for free), convert into finished goods sell them back a small fraction of finished goods, the remaining 90% they use it elsewhere and charge for that. All companies are party companies, all profits are for party, all losses are for the creditors ( don't think that Chinese banks are creditors, they just print currency and manipulate, there's no loss there)

Only someone high on ideology driven propaganda can make such a statement and be so categorical.

The bill or the benefits may be inflated but the Chinese are investing their own money. I myself have speculated that the Chinese projects in Bakistan are gold plated and my *guess* is that a project billed at $10 Billion is worth only $5 billion but that $5 Billion is Chinese money.

If the other party doesn't pay back a dime, guess what is the Chinese loss? Whether it is $10Billion or $5 Billion in Chinese money, the loss is 100% to the Chinese.

When you don't understand all the meanings of Chinese vocabulary, people like yousufDFI occassionally appear with articles like these and the people who want China to collapse on it's own without engineering such a collapse (believe me there are tons of such people in this very forum), they hear what they want to hear and cheer with chilled beer.

Saaru, which Chinese channel you have at home? I too will want to watch it and further my understanding of the "Chinese vocabulary" with chilled beer. I am guessing you wouldn't have got this deep understanding of the "Chinese vocabulary" without a source.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Trikaal » 13 Aug 2018 15:54

pankajs wrote:Only someone high on ideology driven propaganda can make such a statement and be so categorical.

The bill or the benefits may be inflated but the Chinese are investing their own money. I myself have speculated that the Chinese projects in Bakistan are gold plated and my *guess* is that a project billed at $10 Billion is worth only $5 billion but that $5 Billion is Chinese money.

If the other party doesn't pay back a dime, guess what is the Chinese loss? Whether it is $10Billion or $5 Billion in Chinese money, the loss is 100% to the Chinese.

Agree with the rest except the bold part. OBOR is designed in such a way that the Chinese don't end up with a loss.

Chinese have the debt swap option like Hambantota which makes sure that there is no way the Chinese come out of this with a loss. Any country would jump at the chance to acquire ports/cities 1000s of kms away from their mainland.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 13 Aug 2018 17:26

Assumptions are important and this example was to amplify the logical fallacy by taking an extreme case.
pankajs wrote:If the other party doesn't pay back a dime, guess what is the Chinese loss? Whether it is $10Billion or $5 Billion in Chinese money, the loss is 100% to the Chinese.

Assuming Hambantota is a fair deal, what will China get in return for $30 Billion, half of the sticker price of around $60 billion, in Bakistan? Obviously, Gwadar port isn't worth 20x to 30x of Hambantota port.

Now do the same math all over the world. Also remember there is something called a sovereign default and China does not have a Navy to enforce its claims beyond the South China sea and will not have it for quite sometime.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Trikaal » 13 Aug 2018 18:04

Most of chinese investment is in strategic projects so the primary benefit isn't always monetary for them. In Hambantota, Chinese get a refueling and resupplying station in the middle of Indian Ocean for the 30 billion. Something they have to pay 100 million dollars for annually in Djibouti. So that's 10 billion dollars of straight recovery if you assume constant cost for 100 years. Account for inflation and this will start looking like a sweet deal. Not to mention the strategic advantages they can gain by having a listening port along one of the bussiest sea routes and one just a couple hundred miles away from India.

If Myanmar defaults, they can take over the oil hub, route all their oil requirements from there and recover the cost.

If Pakistan defaults, well they are already taking over Pakistan.

If Nepal defaults, they take over dams and sell electricity to India(India countered this by refusing to buy chinese electricity so now they are trying to develop Bangladesh as the customer).

Everywhere, the costs can be recovered because of the nature of projects. They are not building malls and shopping complexes or ghost cities. The chinese are smarter than that.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby TKiran » 13 Aug 2018 18:26

Hambantota is $30 billion? I would not have paid more than $30 million.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 13 Aug 2018 19:09

Trikaal wrote:Most of chinese investment is in strategic projects so the primary benefit isn't always monetary for them. In Hambantota, Chinese get a refueling and resupplying station in the middle of Indian Ocean for the 30 billion. Something they have to pay 100 million dollars for annually in Djibouti. So that's 10 billion dollars of straight recovery if you assume constant cost for 100 years. Account for inflation and this will start looking like a sweet deal. Not to mention the strategic advantages they can gain by having a listening port along one of the bussiest sea routes and one just a couple hundred miles away from India.

If Myanmar defaults, they can take over the oil hub, route all their oil requirements from there and recover the cost.

If Pakistan defaults, well they are already taking over Pakistan.

If Nepal defaults, they take over dams and sell electricity to India(India countered this by refusing to buy chinese electricity so now they are trying to develop Bangladesh as the customer).

Everywhere, the costs can be recovered because of the nature of projects. They are not building malls and shopping complexes or ghost cities. The chinese are smarter than that.

1. I thought you were concerned about my loss calculation as it related to Chinese investments. If finance/viability does not matter then please ignore my last 2 posts.
2. Djibouti and Hambantota aren't in the same league, at least not now. China has only paid about $1 Billion for Hanbantota for commercial use.

I could point out other assumption that you have made above which does not sound logical.

As fare as strategic plans go >> No Plan Survives Contact with the Enemy - Popular paraphrasing of something Field Marshal Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke had said.
Last edited by pankajs on 13 Aug 2018 19:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby TKiran » 13 Aug 2018 19:18

Brahma Chellaney
@Chellaney
Among the several unpopulated islands China has acquired in Maldives is Feydhoo Finolhu, for which it paid $4 million, which is what a luxury apartment in Hong Kong sells for. It paid even less for the 7-km-long Kalhufahalufushi, with a magnificent reef.

China ensnares vulnerable states in a debt trap
asia.nikkei.com

https://mobile.twitter.com/chellaney/st ... 8975633408

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 13 Aug 2018 19:25

pankajs wrote:1. I thought you were concerned about my loss calculation as it related to Chinese investments. If finance/viability does not matter then please ignore my last 2 posts.
2. Djibouti and Hambantota aren't in the same league, at least not now. China has only paid about $1 Billion for Hanbantota for commercial use.

I could point out other assumption that you have made above which does not sound logical.

As fare as strategic plans go >> No Plan Survives Contact with the Enemy - Popular paraphrasing of something Field Marshal Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke had said.

Note to self: Invert, Always Invert [Learning from a very rich and famous person .. definitely NOT Brahma Chellaney]

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby RKumar » 13 Aug 2018 19:50

Trikaal wrote:Most of chinese investment is in strategic projects so the primary benefit isn't always monetary for them. In Hambantota, Chinese get a refueling and resupplying station in the middle of Indian Ocean for the 30 billion. Something they have to pay 100 million dollars for annually in Djibouti. So that's 10 billion dollars of straight recovery if you assume constant cost for 100 years. Account for inflation and this will start looking like a sweet deal. Not to mention the strategic advantages they can gain by having a listening port along one of the bussiest sea routes and one just a couple hundred miles away from India.


There are many errors in your statements. e.g.

1) 100 million x 100 years = 10 billion ... who is losing on interest or loss of purchasing value? In simple terms, 10 billion will not be equal to 10 billion of future (100 years). We can argue that China has a huge surplus of money, so it may not matter much for them.

2) Please keep in mind 30 billion in SR and 60 billion in Napak almost eats 100 billion - for what benefit? - Two ports n few roads in Napaki land. Who is going to pay for securing day out day in these assets as well as for maintaining these? If you ask me they are burning their money faster than they can print err earn.

3) One (SR) of 2 ports can't be used primarily for military operations as per public information. In case of war, these will be sitting ducks - as a matter of fact, any fixed asset in IoR. The more they try to defend such assets - the more they are going to lose.

4) Everything is gain for them during peacetime... SR, Pak, Maldives, Nepal or Burma. A Pearl nackles is beautiful n worthful as long as the string is fine. Once it is broken, it is worthless n difficult to put together.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Trikaal » 13 Aug 2018 22:57

RKumar wrote:
There are many errors in your statements. e.g.

1) 100 million x 100 years = 10 billion ... who is losing on interest or loss of purchasing value? In simple terms, 10 billion will not be equal to 10 billion of future (100 years). We can argue that China has a huge surplus of money, so it may not matter much for them.

2) Please keep in mind 30 billion in SR and 60 billion in Napak almost eats 100 billion - for what benefit? - Two ports n few roads in Napaki land. Who is going to pay for securing day out day in these assets as well as for maintaining these? If you ask me they are burning their money faster than they can print err earn.

3) One (SR) of 2 ports can't be used primarily for military operations as per public information. In case of war, these will be sitting ducks - as a matter of fact, any fixed asset in IoR. The more they try to defend such assets - the more they are going to lose.

4) Everything is gain for them during peacetime... SR, Pak, Maldives, Nepal or Burma. A Pearl nackles is beautiful n worthful as long as the string is fine. Once it is broken, it is worthless n difficult to put together.

Answering pointwise:
1.) If you pay 100 million year 1, then next year you pay 105 million considering 5 % inflation. If you think China has a huge trunk full of cash, then it is more beneficial for them to pay it all right now to avoid paying for inflation. China has the money right now, every year that money becomes less valuable. So if it is invested, then it is safe from value erosion(or in this case, the entire value has been obtained by paying for the facility in entirety on day 1)

2.) Benefits- Interest if the countries pay back and jobs for thousands of chinese workers. If not, then jobs, a port for resupply and refueling overlooking the bussiest sea routes. All pakistani investments are such that it is possible to recover the investment by beggaring the nation. Roads can be tolled, power plants can be used to sell electricity to pakistanis, gwadar can be used as a port for xinjiang. Sure, in the end, pakistan loses money but chinese will walk home with interest and profits. Not to mention getting a loyal colony for 60 billion dollars is a bargain.

3.) i ama not talking about war. All the benefits of port I mentioned are peacetime benefits. India is trying to get assumption island and we might get sabang port in indonesia but that doesn't mean we will have that in case of war with china. Still India is also establishing bases, aren't we? That's because of the peacetime benefits of bases to project power and to keep an ear to the ground in enemy's backyard.

4.) No relation to my post. OBOR is a peacetime project.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Trikaal » 13 Aug 2018 23:08

pankajs wrote:
1. I thought you were concerned about my loss calculation as it related to Chinese investments. If finance/viability does not matter then please ignore my last 2 posts.
2. Djibouti and Hambantota aren't in the same league, at least not now. China has only paid about $1 Billion for Hanbantota for commercial use.

I could point out other assumption that you have made above which does not sound logical.

As fare as strategic plans go >> No Plan Survives Contact with the Enemy - Popular paraphrasing of something Field Marshal Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke had said.


1.) All I am saying is 100% cost recovery is not necessary for strategic projects. In any case Chinese will recover most of their value on most of these projects which is good enough for them.

2.) Not officially, but if you think Chinese naval assets won't dock there or that Chinese won't use it as a listening post/resupply point for their naval ships then you are deluding yourself. Already the number of chinese 'visitors' in sri lanka is increasing manifold.

3.) No need to survive enemy, OBOR projects are all peacetime strategic projects. I am not talking about using these places to launch direct attacks on India/USA.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby JohnTitor » 13 Aug 2018 23:27

Actually, when I visited Sri Lanka last year, the area was teeming with Chinese. I was a little taken aback at the sheer numbers. They even have Chinese shops and stuff. Many SL we're annoyed by the sudden influx

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 13 Aug 2018 23:37

Trikaal wrote:
pankajs wrote:
1. I thought you were concerned about my loss calculation as it related to Chinese investments. If finance/viability does not matter then please ignore my last 2 posts.
2. Djibouti and Hambantota aren't in the same league, at least not now. China has only paid about $1 Billion for Hanbantota for commercial use.

I could point out other assumption that you have made above which does not sound logical.

As fare as strategic plans go >> No Plan Survives Contact with the Enemy - Popular paraphrasing of something Field Marshal Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke had said.


1.) All I am saying is 100% cost recovery is not necessary for strategic projects. In any case Chinese will recover most of their value on most of these projects which is good enough for them.

2.) Not officially, but if you think Chinese naval assets won't dock there or that Chinese won't use it as a listening post/resupply point for their naval ships then you are deluding yourself. Already the number of chinese 'visitors' in sri lanka is increasing manifold.

3.) No need to survive enemy, OBOR projects are all peacetime strategic projects. I am not talking about using these places to launch direct attacks on India/USA.

If OBOR projects are not going to be used during war time then the Chinese are most welcome to spread their money around. Why should it bother India? Why should India object to economic ventures?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby RKumar » 14 Aug 2018 00:39

Trikaal wrote:Answering pointwise:
1.) If you pay 100 million year 1, then next year you pay 105 million considering 5 % inflation. If you think China has a huge trunk full of cash, then it is more beneficial for them to pay it all right now to avoid paying for inflation. China has the money right now, every year that money becomes less valuable. So if it is invested, then it is safe from value erosion(or in this case, the entire value has been obtained by paying for the facility in entirety on day 1)

2.) Benefits- Interest if the countries pay back and jobs for thousands of chinese workers. If not, then jobs, a port for resupply and refueling overlooking the bussiest sea routes. All pakistani investments are such that it is possible to recover the investment by beggaring the nation. Roads can be tolled, power plants can be used to sell electricity to pakistanis, gwadar can be used as a port for xinjiang. Sure, in the end, pakistan loses money but chinese will walk home with interest and profits. Not to mention getting a loyal colony for 60 billion dollars is a bargain.

3.) i ama not talking about war. All the benefits of port I mentioned are peacetime benefits. India is trying to get assumption island and we might get sabang port in indonesia but that doesn't mean we will have that in case of war with china. Still India is also establishing bases, aren't we? That's because of the peacetime benefits of bases to project power and to keep an ear to the ground in enemy's backyard.

4.) No relation to my post. OBOR is a peacetime project.


1) You save inflation of 100 million but you lose the interest on 9900 million. Normally inflation and interests are interlinked. So your logic does not make sense to me at least.

2) You are missing the security implications and costs of enforcing it. Additionally, NaPaki's are going to default in near future, they are living on monthly rescues from SA, China, IMF n ADB n Massaland. It is not if but a matter of when they are going to bust. The cherry topping is water troubles, which will cause big time internal conflicts. So Chinese are shooting in their foot with having close relations with purest nation.

3 & 4) We are not planning to permanently host the hardware but its more soft power. Second, we never completely take over our host's territory.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby jpremnath » 14 Aug 2018 00:58

JohnTitor wrote:Actually, when I visited Sri Lanka last year, the area was teeming with Chinese. I was a little taken aback at the sheer numbers. They even have Chinese shops and stuff. Many SL we're annoyed by the sudden influx


Well, serves them right..The average Lankan had so much hate for India till recently , that I am sure they were thrilled at the sight of Chinese who came to 'liberate' them from the 'arrogant and dominating' Indians... Now they will know what a real sleazy country can do...If we wait for a few more years, we can see them crawling up to us to be the benign neighbour and save their ass.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Prem » 14 Aug 2018 01:31

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/08/13/ ... esert.html
Has China's 'Area 51' been found in the Gobi Desert?
While it may be nothing more than just an odd arrangement of buildings or rocks, that has not stopped conspiracy theorists from claiming that it is "China's Area 51," with some going so far as to think it is a landing pad for ships."It looks like a landing pad for a huge ship of sorts," one commenter wrote. "Runway? I don't think so, but landing pad yes. Especially because of the concave circles. Looks like something rests there."Another commenter suggested that it is for reconnaissance aircraft: "Stop with the hype, it’s a test rang for reconnaissance aircraft, their cameras and targeting equipment. Every country that puts satellites up, has ballistic missiles or a fleet of ISR aircraft has a range like this."One commenter even likened it to the famous Phoenix Lights phenomena in 1997. "Wasn't the huge craft behind the 'Phoenix Lights' the same kind of chevron?" user Marc Conyard wrote.The formation seen in the image above has been hotly debated before, with some believing it could be the Chinese Stonehenge, used by nomads to worship the Sun, according to a 2015 report in the Daily Mail.Other reports, including one in 2011 from CBS, have suggested they are used to calibrate China's spy satellites, but the Chinese government has never confirmed this.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Prem » 14 Aug 2018 02:03

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-pr ... 41398.html
China is printing money for countries like Poland and Brazil at 'full steam' as it tries to expand its influence on the global economy

Until recently China did not print foreign currency at all, but in 2013 Beijing launched the Belt and Road Initiative, a plan seeking to stimulate economic growth in about 60 countries in Europe, Africa, and Asia through investment and infrastructure projects.Two years later China began printing money for Nepal, and today foreign customers of China's industry now also reportedly include Thailand, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, India, Brazil, and Poland as well as possibly others that have not been disclosed, a source in the corporation said.The state-owned China Banknote Printing and Minting Corporation, which is headquartered in Beijing's Xicheng district, describes itself as the world's largest money printer by scale with 18,000 employees and 10 plants for printing paper notes and coins.Its US counterpart, the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, employs fewer than 2,000 people.China's attitude toward printing currency marks a change from previous low demand for printing, as Chinese citizens have turned to using their phones rather than cash.Hu Xingdou, a professor of economics at the Beijing Institute of Technology, told the South China Morning Post that a nation must have considerable trust in the Chinese government to allow it to print its banknotes."The world economic landscape is undergoing some profound changes," he said. "As China becomes bigger and more powerful, it will challenge the value system established by the West. Printing money for other countries is an important step."He added: "Currency is a symbol of a country's sovereignty. This business helps build trust and even monetary alliances."Leverage over currency can also be a powerful weapon. During the fall of the Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi seven years ago, the British government seized $1.5 billion worth of Libyan dinars originally produced for the dictator by the British currency printer De La Rue, which sparked shortages in the country and put pressure on the state.Beijing has been concerned that its enemies could use fake notes to disrupt its economy and has viewed the money-printing capability as being as important as its atomic bomb program.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 14 Aug 2018 07:43

‘Xiaomi emerges top smartphone brand in India with 30% market share at end of Q2’ - Business Line
Chinese phonemaker Xiaomi emerged the top smartphone brand in India in terms of units shipped, with a 29.7 per cent market share at the end of the second quarter of 2018, according to IDC India. Korean major Samsung is at the second spot with 24 per cent market share. . . The premium end of the market ($500+) grew almost two times year-over-year (YoY) due mainly to continued strong shipments of the Samsung Galaxy S9 series and the OnePlus 6, with OnePlus{another Chinese company} surpassing Apple to emerge the second biggest player in the $500+ segment with a 21 per cent share in 2Q18.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 14 Aug 2018 08:22

1 yr after Doklam, China intrudes 400m into Ladakh - Rajat Pandit, ToI
China continues to needle India at different stretches along the 4,057-km Line of Actual Control (LAC), with People’s Liberation Army troops intruding around 300-400 metres inside the Demchok sector of eastern Ladakh and pitching five tents there in the latest such incident last month.

Security establishment sources on Monday said the PLA subsequently removed three of their tents in the Cherdong-Nerlong Nallan area after brigadier-level talks between the two armies, but the remaining two tents with “some Chinese troops in civvies” are still present in the area. The Army, on being contacted, refused to say anything about the incident.

Sources said the PLA soldiers, in the garb of nomads with cattle in tow, had intruded into Indian territory in the first week of July and did not retreat despite Indian troops repeatedly conducting “banner drills” (showing flags to ask them to go back to their own territory) in accordance with laid down protocol to diffuse faceoffs along the LAC.

“The PLA removed three of the tents only after India pushed for talks between the rival brigade commanders,” said a source, adding that the Chinese troops apparently complained against the Ladakh administration’s attempt to construct a path in the Nerlong area.


Demchok is one of the 23 “disputed and sensitive areas” identified on the LAC, stretching from eastern Ladakh to Arunachal Pradesh, which witnesses frequent “transgressions and troop faceoffs” between the two armies due to “differing perceptions” of the unresolved boundary. The other disputed areas in Ladakh include Trig Heights, Dumchele, Chumar, Spanggur Gap and Pangong Tso.

The number of transgressions, which is military euphemism for incursions, by Chinese troops along the LAC has crossed 170 this year. If 273 transgressions were recorded in 2016, the number touched 426 last year in wake of the 73-day troop face-off at the Bhutanese territory of Doklam near the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction.

As earlier reported by TOI, though Indian troops in June last year had physically blocked the attempt by Chinese soldiers to extend the existing motorable road there southwards towards the Jampheri Ridge in south Doklam, the fallout has been that the PLA has constructed military infrastructure and helipads as well as permanently stationed around 600-700 troops in north Doklam.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Trikaal » 14 Aug 2018 09:10

RKumar wrote:
1) You save inflation of 100 million but you lose the interest on 9900 million. Normally inflation and interests are interlinked. So your logic does not make sense to me at least.

2) You are missing the security implications and costs of enforcing it. Additionally, NaPaki's are going to default in near future, they are living on monthly rescues from SA, China, IMF n ADB n Massaland. It is not if but a matter of when they are going to bust. The cherry topping is water troubles, which will cause big time internal conflicts. So Chinese are shooting in their foot with having close relations with purest nation.

3 & 4) We are not planning to permanently host the hardware but its more soft power. Second, we never completely take over our host's territory.


1.) Countries cannot earn interest by putting their reserves in a bank. You think we earn interest on government forex reserves stored with RBI? How will China earn interest on the rest 9900 million other than by investing/lending it in more OBOR projects? The only way for the country/bank to earn interest is by investing the amount. Paying rent in advance is a form of investment as it safeguards against devaluation.

2.) Can you please enlighten me on what the security implications and the cost of enforcing are?
Pakis will default, get loans from SA or IMF and eventually pay back. They are not going bust anytime soon. Even if tgey do, Chinese can take over and still milk the country to recover their money. If chija is the only seller of electricity in pakistan, then people have to pay, don't they? Similarly if china operates an important road, people have to pay, what choice do they have? It's called exploitation, happened a lot during colonial times.

3.) what makes you think china's plans are any different? China could also be planning temporary hosting for soft power projection. In peacetime, soft power is more effective than hard power.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby RKumar » 14 Aug 2018 14:03

Trikaal wrote:1.) Countries cannot earn interest by putting their reserves in a bank. You think we earn interest on government forex reserves stored with RBI? How will China earn interest on the rest 9900 million other than by investing/lending it in more OBOR projects? The only way for the country/bank to earn interest is by investing the amount. Paying rent in advance is a form of investment as it safeguards against devaluation.

2.) Can you please enlighten me on what the security implications and the cost of enforcing are?
Pakis will default, get loans from SA or IMF and eventually pay back. They are not going bust anytime soon. Even if tgey do, Chinese can take over and still milk the country to recover their money. If chija is the only seller of electricity in pakistan, then people have to pay, don't they? Similarly if china operates an important road, people have to pay, what choice do they have? It's called exploitation, happened a lot during colonial times.

3.) what makes you think china's plans are any different? China could also be planning temporary hosting for soft power projection. In peacetime, soft power is more effective than hard power.


1) Reserves offer a strategic value and Chinese reserves are going down rapidly. Every cent they invested in these bad deals will be gone.

2) Look at us, how much resources and energy we are spending from our own pocket?

3) You are missing the woods for the tree.

Lets agree that we disagree on all points and time to move on :)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 14 Aug 2018 15:01

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... ns-defence
China ‘strongly dissatisfied’ as Donald Trump signs defence act upping US support for Taiwan and scrutiny of foreign companies

China has condemned US President Donald Trump for signing an act committing to stronger military backup to Taiwan and placing Chinese companies under closer scrutiny, saying that the move will damage the countries’ ties.

In a statement released on its website, the Chinese foreign ministry said Beijing was “strongly dissatisfied” with Trump signing the defence act.

It said the US should “abandon its cold-war mindset and zero-sum philosophy and view China and Sino-US relations in an objective perspective”.

It urged the US not to implement the “negative contents related to China so as not to cause damages in Sino-US relations and bilateral cooperation in key areas”.

Notice how Stlong nations act when faced with Taiwan renaming by airlines on one hand and kind of "Support of Taiwan" legislation on the other hand.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby nam » 14 Aug 2018 19:12



Now we should force them to produce components in India by increasing custom duty on components. Once we have component ecosystem, it does not matter if they are top or bottom. It they stop operation on CPC's command, some other company will take it's place as the ecosystem is already in place.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 14 Aug 2018 20:14

Prem wrote:https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-printing-money-countries-poland-102441398.html
China is printing money for countries like Poland and Brazil at 'full steam' as it tries to expand its influence on the global economy
Two years later China began printing money for Nepal, and today foreign customers of China's industry now also reportedly include Thailand, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, India, Brazil, and Poland as well as possibly others that have not been disclosed, a source in the corporation said.
Prem Ji :

China printing Indian Currency Notes?

Surely Indian "Currency" Printing Presses are capable of meeting India's requirement. Or aren't they?

Cheers Image

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 14 Aug 2018 23:30

Came across this quote in another context but makes so much sense in the context of ebb and flow of geopolitical game/influence.

"In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate." -- Isaac Asimov

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 14 Aug 2018 23:42

Peregrine wrote:
Prem wrote:https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-printing-money-countries-poland-102441398.html
China is printing money for countries like Poland and Brazil at 'full steam' as it tries to expand its influence on the global economy
Two years later China began printing money for Nepal, and today foreign customers of China's industry now also reportedly include Thailand, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, India, Brazil, and Poland as well as possibly others that have not been disclosed, a source in the corporation said.
Prem Ji :

China printing Indian Currency Notes?

Surely Indian "Currency" Printing Presses are capable of meeting India's requirement. Or aren't they?

Cheers Image


Saar, this is the one thing I will give us a pass on. Unlike cellphones or Diwali puja idols, NO ONE will outsource currency printing unless ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. We will not be printing anywhere else in the world for a few rupees in savings. If we could print it and print it securely at home, it would have remained here. There are only a few places in the world that can print hard to counterfeit note. I know, sounds crazy when Cheen is biggest counterfeit rajah globally.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Suraj » 14 Aug 2018 23:54

ALL Indian currency is printed by by the Security Printing and Minting Corporation of India Limited (SPMCIL). No notes were printed abroad even during Demonetization. The last time notes were printed abroad was in ~1998, when the American Banknote Company and the British De La Rue company printed Rs.500 and Rs.1000 notes briefly. Both contracts were terminated after one batch of about Rs.1 lakh crore, all of which is probably out of circulation now that it's been 20 years. No Indian currency has ever been printed by China.


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