International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

[pravula]

South Korea and Turkey may have flying 4.5+/5G fighters but we will have better specs.

And we will win all wars as long as it’s gonna be a spec comparison on forums.

[Rakesh]

Turkey’s Kaan Next-Generation Fighter Has Flown
https://www.twz.com/air/turkeys-kaan-ne ... -has-flown
21 Feb 2024

[Manish_P]

Turkey’s Kaan Next-Generation Fighter Has Flown
https://www.twz.com/air/turkeys-kaan-ne ... -has-flown
21 Feb 2024

Shaping looks like the F22 form, hi res pics will reveal the finish.

Engine is from Rolls Royce (Achilles heel like us)?

[srai]

^^^
PAF getting multiple options for 4.5/5th Gen fighters with Chinese and Turkish designs.

[Rakesh]

Turkey’s Kaan Next-Generation Fighter Has Flown
https://www.twz.com/air/turkeys-kaan-ne ... -has-flown
21 Feb 2024

Shaping looks like the F22 form, hi res pics will reveal the finish.

Engine is from Rolls Royce (Achilles heel like us)?

The prototype Kaan flew with a pair of GE F110-GE-129 turbofans, which also power F-15s and F-16s. She is a proven turbofan. Whether the production variants will feature the EJ200 remains to be seen, but the proposal has been made by Rolls Royce. Being a 5th generation fighter, the US would like to exert control on the bird to prevent dampening sale of the F-35 among other reasons. Unlike the F-35, the Turks will sell to any friendly (Islamic) country and that will not be palatable to the US.

Being America's poodle, the US can exert influence over Rolls Royce as well. But Kaan having a GE-powered turbofan, will make the process a lot smoother.

Don't forget this ---> viewtopic.php?p=2612486#p2612486
Turkey's proposed new-build F-16s will operate the GE F110-GE-129 turbofan.

And this as well ---> https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/turkey-seek ... -1.2016002

[drnayar]

Turkey’s Kaan Next-Generation Fighter Has Flown
https://www.twz.com/air/turkeys-kaan-ne ... -has-flown
21 Feb 2024

looking at media as to ..India is late etc ..Soko and turkey faster etc, it's worth pointing out turkeys' effort at a 5th gen fighter started much earlier and SoKo benefits from off the shelf components from the US , as they are much comfortable with that unlike India that needs to be atmanirbhar.

[Rakesh]

Dr Saab, one can empathize and understand all those viewpoints. What is perplexing are the delays that it takes to get funds sanctioned to get projects moving. See below. But there is no dearth of talk on MRFA from Air HQ and the MoD.

AMCA ‘PPP’ Proposal Stalled For 3.5 Yrs & Counting
https://www.livefistdefence.com/amca-pp ... -counting/
21 January 2024

=====================================

Tejas Mk2 is another sordid story. See below. What was happening from 2009 to 2022? It takes 13 years from PDR stage to CDR stage? Who will take responsibility for wasting time for more than a decade?

• On 31 August 2022, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) cleared the project to develop the Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter. This project - which is expected to cost Rs. 6,500 crore - is for the design, development, testing and certification of the aircraft. An earlier Rs 2,500 crore was sanctioned in November 2009 for design and development to get to the CDR stage.
Source: https://tinyurl.com/3vabften

[Aldonkar]

The prototype Kaan flew with a pair of GE F110-GE-129 turbofans, which also power F-15s and F-16s. She is a proven turbofan. Whether the production variants will feature the EJ200 remains to be seen, but the proposal has been made by Rolls Royce. Being a 5th generation fighter, the US would like to exert control on the bird to prevent dampening sale of the F-35 among other reasons. Unlike the F-35, the Turks will sell to any friendly (Islamic) country and that will not be palatable to the US.

Being America's poodle, the US can exert influence over Rolls Royce as well. But Kaan having a GE-powered turbofan, will make the process a lot smoother.

Don't forget this ---> viewtopic.php?p=2612486#p2612486
Turkey's proposed new-build F-16s will operate the GE F110-GE-129 turbofan.

And this as well ---> https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/turkey-seek ... -1.2016002

For the last year or so, the CEO of RR is a gentleman named Tufan E----bic (cannot remember his name correctly). He is Turkish by birth and spent much of his career at BP where he had achieved a board level position in a technical role. I don't know if he has adopted British citizenship, but when he became CEO of RR there was an article in the British press that some of the details of the RR compact nuclear plant would have to be witheld from him as he would not have the appropriate Security Clearance as a foreign citizen. This would apply here too.

[arvin]

https://www.space.com/intuitive-machine ... r-payloads

IM's Odysseus has landed on rhe moon.
Signal received is weak, could be antenna orientation issu.e .
First US landing after apollo and first private lander on moon.

[Manish_P]

..
Being America's poodle, the US can exert influence over Rolls Royce as well. But Kaan having a GE-powered turbofan, will make the process a lot smoother.
..

Did (are) they explore Russian (or chinese) engines?

[Rakesh]

..
Being America's poodle, the US can exert influence over Rolls Royce as well. But Kaan having a GE-powered turbofan, will make the process a lot smoother.
..

Did (are) they explore Russian (or chinese) engines?

It can be safely assumed that Turkey is not looking at Russian or Chinese engines. With the level of Western involvement in the Kaan program, inviting either or both parties would result in the West pulling out.

[srai]

Turkey’s Kaan Next-Generation Fighter Has Flown
https://www.twz.com/air/turkeys-kaan-ne ... -has-flown
21 Feb 2024

looking at media as to ..India is late etc ..Soko and turkey faster etc, it's worth pointing out turkeys' effort at a 5th gen fighter started much earlier and SoKo benefits from off the shelf components from the US , as they are much comfortable with that unlike India that needs to be atmanirbhar.

Things happen in India but slowly. Many hurdles in the way system is setup and its own belief in its capabilities and its own products.

[Aditya_V]

I think the Turkish Kaan is more of a Western Aircraft , not officially sell the F-35 but to sell a variant that can be sold to Pakistan and other interests, just like the JF-17. I don't even think the Flight control software will be from Turkey. For all their Shennigans, Turkey is very much part of Nato and US keeps its Nukes there.

SO no point Banging ourselves over this and rush to import S-75 Checkmate. Rather fund Tejas Mk2, AMCA along with 97 more Tejas. This will be far more wiser move.

[Manish_P]

I think the Turkish Kaan is more of a Western Aircraft , not officially sell the F-35 but to sell a variant that can be sold to Pakistan and other interests...

That, sir, is a deep statement!

[Lisa]

I think the Turkish Kaan is more of a Western Aircraft , not officially sell the F-35 but to sell a variant that can be sold to Pakistan and other interests, just like the JF-17. I don't even think the Flight control software will be from Turkey. For all their Shennigans, Turkey is very much part of Nato and US keeps its Nukes there.

SO no point Banging ourselves over this and rush to import S-75 Checkmate. Rather fund Tejas Mk2, AMCA along with 97 more Tejas. This will be far more wiser move.

IMHO, Unlikely for onward sale to pukistan. Helicopter, ie, TAI/AgustaWestland T129 ATAK sale was prevented by US. If helicopter sale is a no, no then jet fighter has no hope at all.

[Manish_P]

..
Did (are) they explore Russian (or chinese) engines?

It can be safely assumed that Turkey is not looking at Russian or Chinese engines. With the level of Western involvement in the Kaan program, inviting either or both parties would result in the West pulling out.

I am inclined to think so but then they chose to get kicked out of the F35 program due to their going ahead with the S400 acquisition..

[sanman]

American company Intuitive Machines has landed its Odysseus lunar lander on the Moon - but it appears to have landed on its side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9L6TanFeWE

Oh well, they're in good company - Japan's JAXA also recently landed on the Moon, and its lander also landed on its side.

Space is Hard.

[ashthor]

*Some one is pushing them over as they land* Conspiracy theory

[sanman]

Su-57's New Engine Lets it Cruise at Mach 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4CRgF4eadg

Google summary

This video talks about the upgraded Su-57 which is equipped with the new AL-51F1 engine. This engine brings significant improvements to the aircraft's performance, including increased thrust, improved fuel efficiency, and reduced maintenance costs. The Su-57 can now cruise at Mach 2, making it less detectable in the infrared range. The upgraded engine also enables the Su-57 to engage targets from greater distances and respond to threats more quickly.

Here are some key points from the video:

The Su-57 is a fifth-generation fighter jet developed by Russia.
The new AL-51F1 engine is a significant upgrade over the previous engine, the AL-41F1.
The AL-51F1 engine provides a thrust of 11,000 kg and an afterburner capability of up to 18,000 kg.
The Su-57 can now cruise at Mach 2, which is equivalent to around 1,530 mph.
The upgraded engine also improves the Su-57's fuel efficiency and reduces maintenance costs.
The Su-57 is not the only fighter jet that will benefit from the AL-51F1 engine. The Su-75, another Russian fighter jet, is also scheduled to receive this engine.
The Su-57 has been criticized for its lack of s-shaped air intakes, which are a common feature of fifth-generation fighter jets. However, the Su-57 uses a different technical approach to address this issue.
The upgraded Su-57 is expected to be released in 2024 and will feature a number of other improvements, including new flat nozzles and ceramic turbines.
Overall, the new AL-51F1 engine is a significant upgrade for the Su-57 and will make it a more formidable combat aircraft.

[Rakesh]

It can be safely assumed that Turkey is not looking at Russian or Chinese engines. With the level of Western involvement in the Kaan program, inviting either or both parties would result in the West pulling out.

I am inclined to think so but then they chose to get kicked out of the F35 program due to their going ahead with the S400 acquisition..

They came right back to America after getting kicked out of the F-35 program. But still no F-35, because Erdogan wants his way.

Regardless, their entire fixed wing combat fleet is American in origin. They inducted nearly 250 F-16C/Ds and have ordered another 40 F-16V Block 70/72s. They are upgrading close to 80 F-16C/Ds to the F-16V standard. Their A2A and A2G weaponry is also from the US, although they are (trying to) diversifying that. They are fully invested in the US military ecosystem. It will not be financially easy for Turkey to switch to another system i.e. Russian.

Same situation in India. Most of our fleet is Russian in origin, sprinkled with Euro kit (Mirage 2000, Jaguar, Rafale). So when the Americans try to sell their hardware, the same financial situation arises. The American hubris does not help their situation either.

[Rakesh]

Chinese visitors allegedly barred from Airbus German military plane
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68400121
26 Feb 2024

[sanman]

Varda Space Industries, a microgravity manufacturing company, shows their capsule re-entering the atmosphere and descending back to Earth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWxl921rMgM

[drnayar]

I am inclined to think so but then they chose to get kicked out of the F35 program due to their going ahead with the S400 acquisition..

They came right back to America after getting kicked out of the F-35 program. But still no F-35, because Erdogan wants his way.

Regardless, their entire fixed wing combat fleet is American in origin. They inducted nearly 250 F-16C/Ds and have ordered another 40 F-16V Block 70/72s. They are upgrading close to 80 F-16C/Ds to the F-16V standard. Their A2A and A2G weaponry is also from the US, although they are (trying to) diversifying that. They are fully invested in the US military ecosystem. It will not be financially easy for Turkey to switch to another system i.e. Russian.

Same situation in India. Most of our fleet is Russian in origin, sprinkled with Euro kit (Mirage 2000, Jaguar, Rafale). So when the Americans try to sell their hardware, the same financial situation arises. The American hubris does not help their situation either.

Well not exactly that. Americans sold Greece F35s to create an arms imbalance and force Turkey to consider the F35s. But the rider was to transfer the S400s to some European country ! Turkey refused. Beside the point , but their Kaan though stealthy shaped , in no way matches the F35s fusion sensors and weapons capability.

[Rakesh]

Turkey will not take the F-35 and abandon the S-400. That bait would not have worked. Erdogan is a stubborn old man.

[sanman]

Interesting video on Hermeus, an attempt to build a private hypersonic aircraft

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyKtxsdI0z8

Google summary

This video talks about a company called Hermeus, which is developing a hypersonic plane that could potentially be the next Air Force One. The video starts by introducing the skepticism surrounding the company's claims and then goes on to explore the challenges and progress Hermeus has made in developing this technology.

Here are the key points from the video:

Hermeus is a company founded by four people who are passionate about building a hypersonic passenger plane.
Their plan is to first solve problems in the National Security space and generate revenue there before entering the commercial market.
One of the major challenges in developing Hypersonic technology is testing. Hermeus has developed a functional subscale turbo ramjet engine using a precooler to push an off-the-shelf jet engine to extreme conditions.
They are currently working on building their first vehicle, Quarter Horse, which will go through three stages of development, each focusing on different aspects of hypersonic flight.
Even if successful, the technology is unlikely to be used in commercial airlines soon due to the high cost and challenges associated with hypersonic flight.
The video also talks about the company culture at Hermeus, which is designed to encourage creativity and collaboration among its employees.
I hope this is helpful!

[VinodTK]

France's Rafale fighter jet is so popular its manufacturer can't keep up
https://www.yahoo.com/news/frances-rafa ... 01493.html
04 March 2024

[Rakesh]

^^^ NRao, do you still believe Rafale will be obsolete by 2036?

France's Rafale fighter jet is so popular its manufacturer can't keep up
https://www.yahoo.com/news/frances-rafa ... 01493.html
04 March 2024

You know what that means Saar!

[srai]

^^^
Those who don’t have access to F-35/F-22 and have deep pockets all lining up for Rafale.

[Rakesh]

France's Rafale fighter jet is so popular its manufacturer can't keep up
https://www.yahoo.com/news/frances-rafa ... 01493.html
04 March 2024

https://x.com/ReviewVayu/status/1765622 ... 14736?s=20 ---> Dassault on some of their 2024 Objectives: "Make in India: ramp up the activities transferred to India."

https://x.com/ReviewVayu/status/1765619 ... 70523?s=20 ---> Dassault's backlog stands at EUR 38.5 billion as of 31 Dec 2023 (295 aircraft: 141 Rafale Export, 70 Rafale France & 84 Falcon). Total of 495 Rafales have thus been ordered since the beginning of the program. 13 Rafale and 26 Falcon were delivered versus guidance of 15 and 35.

[sanman]

Chinese company building Stainless Steel Rocket -- seeds of their own SpaceX Starship?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyeEoNd7-qQ

Remember that the tensile properties of steel radically improve at cryogenic temperatures (hence Musk's decision to use that lower-cost material for developing his next generation rocket)

Now that I think about it -- should ISRO consider stainless steel for NGLV?


Goolgle summary

According to a video by Dongfang Hour A Reusable Chinese Stainless Steel Rocket in 2025?, Landspace, a Chinese commercial launch company, is developing a reusable heavy-lift rocket named ZQ-3 with a launch capacity of 21.3 tons to low Earth orbit. The video discusses that the ZQ-3 is planned for launch in late 2025 and will have a unique stainless steel body, which is cheaper and faster to manufacture than traditional rocket body materials. However, it is also denser, making the rocket heavier. Landspace plans to mitigate this by using a thinner shell, but this requires additional research and development.

Another interesting feature of the ZQ-3 is that Landspace plans to land the first stage vertically on land. Because their launch site in Jiuquan is far from any sea, Landspace plans to build inland landing sites in the provinces of Inner Mongolia and Qinghai. The booster will land on one of these sites and then be transported back to Jiuquan by road.

[Rakesh]

First Block 70 F-16s Are Out For Delivery (Updated)
https://www.twz.com/air/first-block-70- ... r-delivery
06 Mar 2024

50 years after its first flight, the delivery is a major milestone for the F-16 program and its production line’s new home in South Carolina.

[drnayar]

^^^
PAF getting multiple options for 4.5/5th Gen fighters with Chinese and Turkish designs.

except the moolah

[srai]

^^^
Karakoram Highway
Gwadar Port
etc

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Justin_Br0nk/status/17697 ... 86246?s=20 ---> I was lucky enough to fly on the mighty Rafale with the Armee de l’Air last Friday. Interesting cockpit design with lots of SA from the central collimated display, plenty of power, slick air-to-ground weapons/sensor integration, and loads of fuel - an impressive combination!

[Manish_P]

^ no mention of uneven panel gaps, rivets ?

[Rakesh]

^ no mention of uneven panel gaps, rivets ?

Such kind of criticism is only for Tejas.

Even JF-17 Fundaar does not suffer that level of criticism.

[AkshaySG]

^^^
PAF getting multiple options for 4.5/5th Gen fighters with Chinese and Turkish designs.

except the moolah

The moolah will automatically come if India starts progressing too much w AMCA. For both Cheen and US there is no better way to keep India in check than have it tied up with Pak related issues.

Both will try to keep Pak asset quality and quantity within 70-80 % percent of what's available on Indian western front

[srai]

^ no mention of uneven panel gaps, rivets ?

Rafale already sold to India. No need for photoshop touch ups anymore

[Manish_P]

Rafale already sold to India. No need for photoshop touch ups anymore

That's true. But I meant from the Brit who wrote the piece.

They are usually disparagingly snide about French stuff. It is clearly visible in automobile programs, even when they don't have a decent automobile industry of their own...

I guess the realization that the future English fighter aircraft will probably be American has dawned on him.

[sanman]

Japan Loosens Export Policy on Next-Generation Fighter Jet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQfJGa_Uecw