CAATSA...An Oxymoron?

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2629
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby kit » 07 Jul 2018 03:29

Rule of force never works, America is behaving like someone who is losing it but is increasingly showing signs of rage ( the 5 signs of acceptance of another hegemon ) and forcing the world to carve itself out into 2 camps .. quite the opposite of globalization. interesting times ahead. India cant and won't accept this kind of polarisation of 2 camps. Should it make another one.. time for a Non aligned redux?

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5570
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 07 Jul 2018 06:52

Increased Interoperability with America = Increased Dependence upon America

Who on this forum wants this? It is a simple black and white question!

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/101 ... 38400?s=21 —> The gradual strategic emasculation of Britain in the post-World War 2 period should be studied by every chap who trots around terms like 'natural partnership' , 'alliance of democracies', etc.

Does the term "strategic partnership" sound familiar? :) Who wants India to be Amreeka’s poodle, just like the UK?

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5570
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 07 Jul 2018 07:53

I am not advocating alienating the United States. On the contrary embrace the relationship, but on mutually agreeable terms. Buy what is needed, but not everything in the name of interoperability and in the bargain, losing our independence. And while armed drones are a wonderful thing, we do not need to sign COMCASA for that. If this is their attitude over armed drones, pray tell what will they ask for if we have to buy armed fighter aircraft.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17279
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby chetak » 07 Jul 2018 11:26

Rakesh wrote:I am not advocating alienating the United States. On the contrary embrace the relationship, but on mutually agreeable terms. Buy what is needed, but not everything in the name of interoperability and in the bargain, losing our independence. And while armed drones are a wonderful thing, we do not need to sign COMCASA for that. If this is their attitude over armed drones, pray tell what will they ask for if we have to buy armed fighter aircraft.


Isn't it the very same dilema that the pakis have always faced with the amerikis??

"on mutually agreeable terms", "losing our independence", "treat us with respect", weren't these also the eternal talking points of the pakis?? and finally look at where exactly it has got them??

Until the next cycle of ameriki tough love begins and the pakis are back once again and spreadeagled on the marital bed??

Why can't we simply learn from the misadventures of another??

dinesha
BRFite
Posts: 1049
Joined: 01 Aug 2004 11:42
Location: Delhi

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby dinesha » 07 Jul 2018 13:50

Mattis writes to Nirmala Sitharaman to clear the air on 2+2
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 891711.cms
Instead, Mattis confirmed his plans to travel to India in early September, which is now likely to be the occasion when the Indo-US 2+2 dialogue will be held.

ET has reliably gathered that soon after Mattis’s letter, the US formally moved a proposal to hold the 2+2 dialogue in India in early September. The necessary coordination between the State Department and Pentagon on this count has already begun, added sources.

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 1222
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby ArjunPandit » 07 Jul 2018 15:59

it is interesting to postpone it before October when Modi-Putin meet to finalize the S400 purchase

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17279
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby chetak » 07 Jul 2018 22:30

ArjunPandit wrote:it is interesting to postpone it before October when Modi-Putin meet to finalize the S400 purchase



May be it can be preponed and finalized??

WE need the S400.

Even the amerikis crap at it's mention.

Image
Current and future S-400 Operators

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 1222
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Jul 2018 02:14

Will there be any sanction against Saudis?

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5570
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 08 Jul 2018 03:34

^^^ Nice. I like that. Not when oil is at stake :) Guaranteed waiver!

Katare
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2197
Joined: 02 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Katare » 08 Jul 2018 09:30

Rakesh wrote:Increased Interoperability with America = Increased Dependence upon America

Who on this forum wants this? It is a simple black and white question!

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/101 ... 38400?s=21 —> The gradual strategic emasculation of Britain in the post-World War 2 period should be studied by every chap who trots around terms like 'natural partnership' , 'alliance of democracies', etc.

Does the term "strategic partnership" sound familiar? :) Who wants India to be Amreeka’s poodle, just like the UK?


UK was and is a small country, once it lost its colonies it was relegated to the mid size power along with the rest of the EU empire countries. India with its 1.4 billion population and a subcontinent size can not be compared with a tiny island.

Although fully agree about this inter operability bait to sucker us into dependence.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19531
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Philip » 08 Jul 2018 09:55

The improved version of the S-400 far superior to what was supplied to the Chins.Yes, all our potential and avowed enemies will crap when it arrives the sooner the better.The US has this wretched " dog in the manger" attitude towards India.The sealing of the S- 400 deal should be announced before the 2+2 dialogue ( of the deaf), with only the formal signing when Pres.Put-it-in arrives.

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 1222
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Jul 2018 10:05

Rakesh wrote:^^^ Nice. I like that. Not when oil is at stake :) Guaranteed waiver!

that is called a well oiled mechanism ;)

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 08 Jul 2018 10:57

Saudis remain untouchable and it’s its extension the Sunni opec alliance members , even when most of the 9/11 terrorist were Saudi citizen they were not touched at all and some one filed a law suite against Iran for 9/11

You can’t expect any country to get more hipocrat than US does should be the bench mark others are measured by , so let’s protect our own national interest and give any pressure on CAATSA and Oil deal with Iran a middle finger

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 10 Jul 2018 11:13

India must resist diktats from US on Iran, Russia
What is wrong with the United States? Why is it issuing “sanction threats” to all and sundry? Why is it pressuring India against buying crude oil from Iran and the S-400 missile defence system from Russia? Such crude “gunboat diplomacy” by this superpower is saddening. Indeed, it is time for India to stand up and tell the US to keep away from meddling in the affairs of sovereign India, which is neither a part of the Western bloc nor a colony of any foreign power. India must tell the US that it comprises 1.3 billion heads, and is not an island state of 60,000 or even six million that can be easily bullied. India reserves the right to purchase its crude oil from wherever it gets the best price in the open market, and has every right to take care of its economic and security system in accordance with its needs.

These threats by Washington only shows the acute sense of insecurity that it seems to be suffering from. Does it feel threatened by those who may not be in tune with its diktats? If that happens to be the case, then New Delhi must advise Washington to not become a victim of an avoidable, self-created and self-inflicted state of tension, that could easily lead to costly mistakes. Indeed, India should take its cue from Bruce Riedel, a former senior adviser to four US Presidents on the Middle East and South Asia, and show that Washington should take note of India’s concerns and not aimlessly fire in the air. It’s time to prove the US wrong to establish a favourable counter-point of diplomacy vis-a-vis the US attempts to thwart India’s sovereign state power.

Bruce Riedel wrote in his book Avoiding Armageddon (2013): “In 1991, Robert Gates, US deputy national security adviser, was meeting Indian Army chief Gen. S.F. Rodrigues, during his visit to Washington... Gates urged India to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT)... Rodrigues interrupted Gates almost immediately, asking: ‘Why are you reading me these talking points?... You speak about the importance of the NPT and want us to give up the nuclear option. America is the only country ever to use the bomb on an enemy, and you have built thousands of them. Yet you tell us not to do what you have done! And you give Pakistan F-16s to deliver its nuclear attack on our cities’.”

Hats off to Gen. Rodrigues! He did what most Indian diplomats couldn’t or wouldn’t do, and had the guts and the gumption to tell the truth and show the US deputy NSA the mirror. Riedel’s final words, however, counter-mirrored the Indian government’s perennially inexplicable “softness” towards the US: “The general was simply more passionate in his denunciation and showed the new world order than the mostly soft-spoken Indian diplomats.”

In 1991, the US message was clear. First, it’s the “new world order” of the monopolistic US player. Second, the general was “passionate” in professing his — and India’s — views. He took his job too seriously as he didn’t realise that the US was the boss and all the others pygmies. And third, the general was not the “competent” person to speak about India-US bilateral relations — for, after all, it is the “mostly soft-spoken Indian diplomats” who are authorised to do the serious business of diplomacy. Whether their softness is effective or not is another matter altogether.

Riedel also clearly demonstrated the reality of the Indian establishment — how India has always acted in a weak-kneed manner before the US, except during the 1970s when then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi showed the Richard Nixon-Henry Kissinger duo their place in matters relating to South Asia in general and India’s looming 1971 East Pakistan-Bangladesh crisis in particular. In reality, the US still gives the impression that it lives by the old adage — “once the boss, always the boss, come what may”. That’s fine in a structured government hierarchy and in the military, but not in international relations and human behaviour. Should every nation follow each and every command coming from the United States? Is it even possible for an independent, sovereign country of 1.3 billion people like India to do so repeatedly?

It’s time for India to firmly question the US and seek answers from it. What does India do if Russia, the sole supplier of almost 70 per cent of our military hardware, threatens or disrupts the India-Russia joint venture and other supply chains, and switches over to a Sino-Pakistani-Iranian axis and takes to Dhaka, Kabul, Kathmandu, Colombo and Male by storm? To snatch them away from the South Asian ambience to that of anti-India hardliners?

It is really surprising that leaders and decision-makers in the United States, that is regarded as the best place to study and understand geopolitics-economics-strategy and international relations owing to its many quality institutions and erudite scholars, speak and act in a childish, unprofessional, undiplomatic and threatening manner. No country should bend to such unethical posturing of a so-called global superpower.

However, the US knows well the soft spots of some ruling class members of developing nations rather too well. Their children love to go to the US for studies, professional work and to settle. The “green card” and long-term visas are magnets for the ruling class of developing nations. For many, the US is still the El Dorado, the promised land! From all this emerges the strength of the superpower and the weakness of other nations. So much so that even China, the second-ranking $11,226-trillion economy (after America’s $18,037-trillion economy) in the world had to submit to Washington when Chinese President Xi Jinping personally rang up US President Donald Trump to save the Hans’ pride ZTE company from extinction, that would lead to a huge loss for China’s nascent economics and engineering.

If the United States, that has military forces deployed in at least 65 designated destinations across the globe, ceaselessly resorts to such threats, it shows serious faultlines of decay and disenchantment within. That is not good news for anyone, neither its friends nor foes.

India needs to stand up and be counted; and not look weak, vacillating, compromising and benevolent in a narrow sense like that of Delhi Sultan Firoze Tughlaq (1351-1388), who signalled “after me, the deluge”

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 13 Jul 2018 09:48

Looks like Turkey wont get the F-35 which is now in US :rotfl:

Turkey defiant on purchase of Russian S-400 anti-missile weapon

BRUSSELS ― Turkey’s foreign minister defended his government’s choice Wednesday to buy the Russian S-400 missile defense system, presenting it as the second-best option only because NATO allies declined to sell Western hardware.

Speaking during a panel discussion on the sidelines of the NATO summit in Brussels, Belgium, Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu claimed the Russian-made system poses no threat to the rest of the alliance members, though he offered no argument for his position.

Western issue experts view the purchase from Russia as risky because the system could pose a serious security risk when integrated into allied networks ― if that is possible at all. In addition, Turkey buying from Moscow sends a signal of division among NATO members, the argument goes.

“I tried to buy from my allies,” Çavuşoğlu said. “I wanted to buy from the U.S. for the last 10 years; it didn’t work. I couldn’t buy from NATO allies, so Russia gave me the best proposal. And now I’m buying from Russia.”

Çavuşoğlu used his speech to take stabs at various NATO members: the United States, for attempts to block F-35 fighter jet sales to Turkey over the S-400 kerfuffle; Germany, for ending a deployment of the Patriot anti-missile system protecting Turkey’s southern border; and all of Ankara’s “Western friends” for wanting to keep the country at the in-between stage of “at the doorstep of Europe.”

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 1437
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Manish_P » 13 Jul 2018 11:30

Philip wrote:The improved version of the S-400 far superior to what was supplied to the Chins.


In what ways?

Genuine question

dinesha
BRFite
Posts: 1049
Joined: 01 Aug 2004 11:42
Location: Delhi

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby dinesha » 13 Jul 2018 12:52

India invites Donald Trump to be chief guest at next year’s Republic Day parade
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 13 Jul 2018 17:00

We are in the final stages of negotiations for the S 400 deal with India, Def Min @nsitharaman says. Brushes off Washington protests by saying 'US is not the UN' :lol:

Def Min in a strong statement on ties with Russia, says have told US that we have been talking on S 400 for years, their technical objections are wrong.


Def Min gives enough indications that the much talked about COMCASA agreement unlikely to be inked during the 2+2 dialogue. 'Dont think final position has been decided'.


#S-400 deal with Russia ‘at conclusive stage. Says #CAATSA won’t affect it because it is a ‘US legislation’. Defence Minister @nsitharaman tells media in South Block.


https://twitter.com/manupubby
https://twitter.com/SandeepUnnithan

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 13 Jul 2018 17:05

Very Defining statement from MOD NS that US is not the UN

This gives hope that India wont scumb to US pressure on IRan Oil deal

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19531
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Philip » 13 Jul 2018 18:16

Manish, there was a report outlining the specs and details of the improved version being offered to us,which uses newer improved missiles in the package ,not too long ago.I did not save it.I think in an Ru media report.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2629
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby kit » 13 Jul 2018 18:27

dinesha wrote:India invites Donald Trump to be chief guest at next year’s Republic Day parade
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst


maybe they will parade the S400 in front of him :rotfl:

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 13 Jul 2018 19:16

"We have told the US Congress delegation [that visited India] that this is US law and not a UN law," Sitharaman said, as quoted by The Tribune, adding that the law does not apply to India

The 2+2 dialogue with the US is to happen in the first week of September. The agenda will be to develop and strengthen strategic defense cooperation and to follow-on with what had transpired during the meeting with Secretary of Defence Jim Mattis," Sitharaman was quoted as saying by the Indian ANI news agency.


https://sputniknews.com/military/201807 ... ster-deal/

tushar_m
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 22 Sep 2010 21:07

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby tushar_m » 13 Jul 2018 19:47

kit wrote:
dinesha wrote:India invites Donald Trump to be chief guest at next year’s Republic Day parade
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst


maybe they will parade the S400 in front of him :rotfl:



AGNI ICBM would be better :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Trump understand power & that is what need to be shown.

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 896
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby yensoy » 13 Jul 2018 19:57

tushar_m wrote:Trump understand power & that is what need to be shown.


No. Trump's aide will remind him that total US firepower is about 1000x of what we have, and Trump will call us names on twitter.

The way forward with Trump is to massage his huge ego. Every Agni or S-400 missile must be adorned with an overlength red tie and this must be pointed out to him by the officer in charge.

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2625
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby chola » 13 Jul 2018 20:07

tushar_m wrote:
kit wrote:
maybe they will parade the S400 in front of him :rotfl:



AGNI ICBM would be better :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Trump understand power & that is what need to be shown.


And he responds to it with more power of his own.

He says he likes and respects Eleven because “he’s the King” but that doesn’t stop him from hitting Cheen with the biggest trade war in our generation and squeezing Xi’s balls until he cries.

So you show Trump the Agni and he might convene the US Sixth and Seventh Fleets off Chennai for R&R to show people who is really the boss in the IOR.

This is a man who REALLY understands power and wields it too.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16410
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: woh log gawad hai, unpad hai !
Contact:

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rahul M » 13 Jul 2018 21:52

:roll:

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4134
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Karthik S » 13 Jul 2018 21:58

:rotfl:

arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2909
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby arshyam » 13 Jul 2018 22:44

chola wrote:
tushar_m wrote:

AGNI ICBM would be better :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Trump understand power & that is what need to be shown.


And he responds to it with more power of his own.

He says he likes and respects Eleven because “he’s the King” but that doesn’t stop him from hitting Cheen with the biggest trade war in our generation and squeezing Xi’s balls until he cries.

So you show Trump the Agni and he might convene the US Sixth and Seventh Fleets off Chennai for R&R to show people who is really the boss in the IOR.

This is a man who REALLY understands power and wields it too.

Sure. We'll send Rajini to show a thing or two from our side as well :lol:


chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2625
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby chola » 14 Jul 2018 00:14

arshyam wrote:
chola wrote:
And he responds to it with more power of his own.

He says he likes and respects Eleven because “he’s the King” but that doesn’t stop him from hitting Cheen with the biggest trade war in our generation and squeezing Xi’s balls until he cries.

So you show Trump the Agni and he might convene the US Sixth and Seventh Fleets off Chennai for R&R to show people who is really the boss in the IOR.

This is a man who REALLY understands power and wields it too.

Sure. We'll send Rajini to show a thing or two from our side as well :lol:


LOL. Rajini would be my choice too as a Tamil and all!

But showing someone like Trump the “big stick” is meaningless when he has an infinitely bigger stick and is power crazy to boot.

To strike awe into him, you need more than Rajini, you need this — The Tuffest Tamil Lady! Shot in the head but can still make very long — and coherent — death speech!

souravB
BRFite
Posts: 173
Joined: 07 Jun 2018 13:52

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby souravB » 14 Jul 2018 00:44

We are Indians, we believe in Ahimsa. so let Didi talk with him for an hour. He might just resign after that.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2629
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby kit » 14 Jul 2018 01:32

chola wrote:
tushar_m wrote:

AGNI ICBM would be better :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Trump understand power & that is what need to be shown.


And he responds to it with more power of his own.

He says he likes and respects Eleven because “he’s the King” but that doesn’t stop him from hitting Cheen with the biggest trade war in our generation and squeezing Xi’s balls until he cries.

So you show Trump the Agni and he might convene the US Sixth and Seventh Fleets off Chennai for R&R to show people who is really the boss in the IOR.

This is a man who REALLY understands power and wields it too.


seriously ? .. what happened to NoKo... no war ? scared ? .. what about Iran ? .. no war ? .. China is still building and arming its islands all around the South China Sea ..wheres the mighty USN? , shows up and run away ? .. does America really have any "allies" .. any moral standing? ..talk about keeping its word? ..wheres the deal with Iran ? .. all it "does" is trying to show is that it "still calls the shots" ..for how long ? ..its scared that even its tech dominance is getting over with .. so the "trade war" .. let Trump wield whatever is left ..successive US presidents will find far less to "wield"

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19531
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Philip » 14 Jul 2018 07:51

NS."India will go ahead with Triumf deal".
Pact with Russia was much before sanctions law.Deal in its " conclusive stages".
Relations with Russia "have endured for years".
CAASTA is a "US law is not a UN law".
COMCASA." Final positions are yet to be arrived ".

In short, the US has been told politely "to go take a hike".

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby habal » 14 Jul 2018 09:57

A nation of 1.4 billion is afraid of trump ?? So what next, is one yankee equal to 4 yindoo. 350:1400. What about our desi turncoats in usa, should they be included on yankee side or yindoo side in the census ?

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 14 Jul 2018 11:36

dinesha wrote:India invites Donald Trump to be chief guest at next year’s Republic Day parade
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst


You can bet every penny known DT he will agree to come if India agrees to US terms of Zero Energy Imports from Iran , Tarriff besides other thing , He will put condition down and if we agree he may come.

Why not invite our own neighbours from SAARC nations and rather spend energy time building better relations with them.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby habal » 14 Jul 2018 12:09

better to invite putin or eleven and show them all the russian stuff we have. :P I would prefer inviting somebody who looks up to us and values our friendship rather than a pompous ego-maniac who looks down at everything else. But 2019 is election year and thus visibility will be most important for brand recollection.

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2625
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby chola » 14 Jul 2018 15:40

kit wrote:
chola wrote:
And he responds to it with more power of his own.

He says he likes and respects Eleven because “he’s the King” but that doesn’t stop him from hitting Cheen with the biggest trade war in our generation and squeezing Xi’s balls until he cries.

So you show Trump the Agni and he might convene the US Sixth and Seventh Fleets off Chennai for R&R to show people who is really the boss in the IOR.

This is a man who REALLY understands power and wields it too.


seriously ? .. what happened to NoKo... no war ? scared ? .. what about Iran ? .. no war ? .. China is still building and arming its islands all around the South China Sea ..wheres the mighty USN? , shows up and run away ? .. does America really have any "allies" .. any moral standing? ..talk about keeping its word? ..wheres the deal with Iran ? .. all it "does" is trying to show is that it "still calls the shots" ..for how long ? ..its scared that even its tech dominance is getting over with .. so the "trade war" .. let Trump wield whatever is left ..successive US presidents will find far less to "wield"


Noko was brought to the table after DT armtwisted Cheen into an embargo of its puppet. Iran will be embargoed again. Cheen is under assault by DT’s trade war.

No shooting war? Of course not. NoKo, Iran and the PRC hadn’t attacked the US or its forces. What kind of warmongering maniac you think Trump is? Being powerful doesn’t mean you beat up people willy-nilly.

But the USN is IN the Persian Gulf NEXT to Iran in force. It is IN the Yellow Sea next to NoKo, in force. And it is all AROUND Cheen, not just the South China Sea, and in force.

The United States is camped on THEIR doorsteps. While they are nowhere near America’s.

I’m as proud as the next desi. But showing the Agni to the US President? When the US owns 10K nukes and Diego Garcia and countless cruisers and destroyers in our neighborhood? What is the point?

g.sarkar
BRFite
Posts: 1575
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby g.sarkar » 14 Jul 2018 17:06

Austin wrote:
dinesha wrote:India invites Donald Trump to be chief guest at next year’s Republic Day parade
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

You can bet every penny known DT he will agree to come if India agrees to US terms of Zero Energy Imports from Iran , Tarriff besides other thing , He will put condition down and if we agree he may come.

DT is unpredictable. I think he will come because he loves a parade and also as he is bored in the WH. He liked the French parade too. But this did not make him a friend of the French. This maybe the case with India too.
Gautam

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19531
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Philip » 14 Jul 2018 19:12

I would've preferred Frau Merkel who is a realist.We haven't had German head for aeons.Germany rules the EU and as a commentator recently wrote, the NATO nations are p*ssed off with the US and may want their own Euro-Corps instead which may even include Russia not the UK!.Opportunity for India to leverage the EU after Brexit too.

dinesha
BRFite
Posts: 1049
Joined: 01 Aug 2004 11:42
Location: Delhi

Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby dinesha » 18 Jul 2018 13:35

In Helsinki backlash, Democrats target sanctions loophole for US allies buying Russian arms
https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... sian-arms/
But beyond messaging, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., called on Republicans to take action, to ratchet up sanctions on Russian defense and intelligence services — and to abandon efforts to enact a “special rule,” favored by the Pentagon, that would allow the Trump administration to waive some penalties on U.S. allies for buying Russian weapons.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Rakesh and 38 guests