Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

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Singha
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 06 Sep 2018 08:58

lack of working capital, lack of easy loans with govt backing and lack of speedy commercially paid work.
they must get commercial work or else function as a govt run yard. its chicken egg problem - they are small in size and cannot compete with the speed and scale of the far east shipyards.

in contrast air india continues to fly high on our tax payer annual bailouts.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby tsarkar » 06 Sep 2018 09:37

Both Pipavav (private) and Alcock (State Govt) didnt get institutional support from Indian Navy. Design help from DND would have greatly helped them. Instead they were treated as a vendor.

L&T has invested heavily and built up a strong bench strength of architects. They recruit a lot of ex Naval engineers and this has enabled them to successfully deliver.

MDL, GRSE, GSL, CSL, HSL and L&T recruit a lot of ex-naval engineers and ex-MoD IAS officers. Most of these ex-Rear Admirals/Commodores/Captains/Commanders are able to either influence their juniors occupying their former positions or atleast get insight into what the Navy wants. This enables them to avoid change requests and quicker acceptance.

The older shipyards are also able to politically stall IN support to the newer shipyards.

I know for a fact that MDL from Managing Director to Worker's Union actively trying to sabotage L&T & Pipavav. L&T is too well entrenched and builds nuclear submarine hulls that MDL doesnt have technology, so are insulated. Pipavav isnt and hence suffers. All the other yards are suffering as well.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 06 Sep 2018 10:02

tsarkar wrote:Both Pipavav (private) and Alcock (State Govt) didnt get institutional support from Indian Navy. Design help from DND would have greatly helped them. Instead they were treated as a vendor.

L&T has invested heavily and built up a strong bench strength of architects. They recruit a lot of ex Naval engineers and this has enabled them to successfully deliver.

MDL, GRSE, GSL, CSL, HSL and L&T recruit a lot of ex-naval engineers and ex-MoD IAS officers. Most of these ex-Rear Admirals/Commodores/Captains/Commanders are able to either influence their juniors occupying their former positions or atleast get insight into what the Navy wants. This enables them to avoid change requests and quicker acceptance.

The older shipyards are also able to politically stall IN support to the newer shipyards.

I know for a fact that MDL from Managing Director to Worker's Union actively trying to sabotage L&T & Pipavav. L&T is too well entrenched and builds nuclear submarine hulls that MDL doesnt have technology, so are insulated. Pipavav isnt and hence suffers. All the other yards are suffering as well.


That is horrible, Tsarkar ji. And I worry for L&T if that is the case. They are safe currently with the nuclear subs but now they seem vulnerable too if the DPSU docks like MDL and their connections are out for them. A single misstep seems threatening now.

Sometimes, for a Rakshak’s peace of mind, it is better not to know this stuff.

tsarkar
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby tsarkar » 06 Sep 2018 10:23

^^ We Indians are a very myopic and insecure people and whether services, R&D or Industry, job security and benefits underlie decisions rather than the greater good for the nation. Occasionally we get a APJ Abdul Kalam or a Sunderji or Maneckshaw but overall myopia remains. Indeed sad and depressing. Happens across all sectors. I can give examples in Automobile, Banking, Airline & IT sectors. Like all airlines ganging up to prevent Air Asia from setting up Air Asia India.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby rajsunder » 07 Sep 2018 02:45

nam wrote:
Gagan wrote:
These two ships are fitting out and are scheduled to be commissioned this year, rest by 2020.
The latest news is that Chota Bhai has resigned as the head of this company - so maybe another round of delays


Yeah, the last I read when the first two ships were floated, that the remaining ones would be floated this year.Also the first two were promised delivery by mid this year. Nothing happened.

The company has a large NPA as well. When they have orders they cannot deliver. Just L&T doing good does not help, as MoD will never get in to single vendor situation.

GoI should alteast share some of our ship designs with L&T, so that they can try for export orders. PSU shipyard should be asked to sub-contractor some parts from private shipyard.

The whole mess is killing our only hope of speeding up ship building.

PSU shipyards are playing dirty. I read that they are quoting ridiculous rates(about 120% of the cost of material and private ones quoting at 170% of cost of material) for building Navy ships which cannot be done by a private yeard. These PSU's do not worry about profit or loss. They know that the govt will provide them money if they make a loss.

So government should bring in a level playing field before they can dream of a private ship yard building a capital ship for Indian Navy.

nam
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby nam » 07 Sep 2018 17:02

rajsunder wrote:PSU shipyards are playing dirty. I read that they are quoting ridiculous rates(about 120% of the cost of material and private ones quoting at 170% of cost of material) for building Navy ships which cannot be done by a private yeard. These PSU's do not worry about profit or loss. They know that the govt will provide them money if they make a loss.

So government should bring in a level playing field before they can dream of a private ship yard building a capital ship for Indian Navy.


:D Ofcourse they are playing dirty. They will quote zero for building a destroyer, if that was allowed.

If the client is my underwriter of my risk... Even i will do it for free.

Why would GoI bring a level playing field?

chetak
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chetak » 07 Sep 2018 22:57

things seem to be looking up for vice adms in the IN, especially after the very recent SC ruling on art 377

The hoary old adage :

The rear of the rear admiral is not merely the vice of the vice admiral anymore, it is now his legal right. :wink:

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby rajsunder » 08 Sep 2018 00:43

nam wrote:
rajsunder wrote:PSU shipyards are playing dirty. I read that they are quoting ridiculous rates(about 120% of the cost of material and private ones quoting at 170% of cost of material) for building Navy ships which cannot be done by a private yeard. These PSU's do not worry about profit or loss. They know that the govt will provide them money if they make a loss.

So government should bring in a level playing field before they can dream of a private ship yard building a capital ship for Indian Navy.


:D Ofcourse they are playing dirty. They will quote zero for building a destroyer, if that was allowed.

If the client is my underwriter of my risk... Even i will do it for free.

Why would GoI bring a level playing field?


Because In deserves better, if japan can do a build of 1 ton of displacement with about 70-80 an hours, we should not take 10 times that amount of man hours to do the same work.
If we have to cut it down and bring it to the level of japaneese ship building, we need private shipyards.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby SaiK » 12 Sep 2018 22:43

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/scien ... 929012.ece
how vulnerable this would be to sub-surface weapons?

Singha
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 16 Sep 2018 09:12

ins sahyadri at ex kakadu off australia
Image

ks_sachin
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby ks_sachin » 16 Sep 2018 12:27

Singha wrote:ins sahyadri at ex kakadu off australia
Image

I would love the number of your personal ophthalmologist Singha!!!!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Philip » 16 Sep 2018 17:21

P-75I getting kick-started by the MOD with a Sept..
meeting due to expedite the process.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby AdityaM » 17 Sep 2018 00:55

Indian Navy's Information management and analysis centre (IMAC) at Gurgaon.

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 52672?s=21

Image

Image


How do they track all those ships. Major Ships are tracked internationally like airplanes?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rahul M » 17 Sep 2018 08:34

^^^ AIS.


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