Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

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nam
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby nam » 13 Apr 2019 18:00

John wrote:
nam wrote:Finally from the horse's mouth, the correct design with proper radar for P17A

Has it been confirmed both SYs are building the same design?


Nope. We will only when if the shipyards release their offical model or when the ships are going for sea testing!

However given DND has shown it's design.. hope it is the same across the two shipyard.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby jaysimha » 13 Apr 2019 18:09

Indian Navy Future Tracking Ship VC-11184 Nearly Completed
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... completed/

Rare photos of the Indian Navy’s future tracking ship VC-11184 “Ocean Surveillance Ship”, currently being built at Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) in Vishakhapatnam have emerged.

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby sahay » 13 Apr 2019 19:02

MeshaVishwas wrote:Has the Exhaust moved further towards the back?
The Kolkata class, as I have observed, had one face of the MF STAR completely covered in soot.

Kolkata class is derived from Delhi class and inherits its propulsion package and funnel placement. P17A is derived from Shivalik class, uses a very similar propulsion package, and its funnel design looks like a slight modification of Shivalik's.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Manish_P » 15 Apr 2019 12:30

A very good article highlighted by Retd. Vice Admiral Arun Kumar Singh. Although the article is about the Royal navy, i felt some of the points being pertinent to the IN as well.

(Moderators if this is not the right thread, will remove from here and post in the Intl. Naval Thread)

Why The Royal Navy Does Not Need New ASW Corvettes

Is the answer to the Royal Navy’s challenges more, less capable, ships, or fewer but more capable ships? A simple question but one that has been at the centre of naval policy making agenda for decades now.


It is tempting to see this as a strong argument for the Royal Navy – build lots of little ships, individually cheap, but which when brought together provide a level of coherent defensive capability against threats that would potentially deter a submarine captain. The problem though is that ASW today is a very different beast from WW2 and the early Cold War. Today though the threat is utterly different – a credibly handled submarine will not need to surface to attack, and it possesses longer endurance, longer ranged weapon systems and better means of identifying its pursuers. Modern submarines are also significantly quieter than their predecessors, making detection difficult and the certainty of getting a kill limited.


The reality is that modern ASW is not something that can be done cheaply or via a simple platform. A credible and effective ASW frigate requires three key assets, firstly the sonar processing power to identify, track and prosecute an attack against an extremely quiet target that does not want to be found. Secondly, it needs the means to deliver this attack as far away from the escort ship as possible – which calls for a platform capable of operating a long range helicopter capable of prosecuting an attack. Finally to prevent detection and attack, the frigate is required to be as quiet as possible to avoid notifying submarines of its presence – this requires extensive silencing and mounting of machinery to prevent it giving away a ships presence.


In the same vein while some of the designs on the market may have a flight deck or hangar for a small aircraft, what they are not cleared for is operating large Merlin scale helicopters. These are an essential part of the ASW battle – intended to travel quickly to successfully prosecute any contacts, the Merlin is at the heart of the modern Royal Navy frigates ASW weaponry. The problem though is Merlin is a very big helicopter – when you stand alongside one you realise it is, literally, as tall as a house. This immediately imposes constraints on the design of the ship you want to operate it from – the hangar and support facilities need to be big enough to maintain it. Additionally, to make full use of the phenomenal capability of the Merlin, you need to have invested fully in the sensors and systems required to make it effective. A failure to do so means the value and utility of the helicopter and the ships is massively reduced.


A cheap frigate design like a corvette may sound useful, but if it makes more noise than a party of 30 toddlers who’ve all been fed Haribo and espressos then let loose with a puppy, then it is no use. It will struggle to detect hostile submarines, and the enemy will hear it coming a long time in advance, providing enough time to stop laughing and either evade without being detected, or sink the ship and continue on their mission. Additionally, a cheap corvette without a decent capability to engage the opponent at distance will in wartime soon be a cheap ‘ex corvette’. Unless you are properly silenced and able to sneak up on an opponent, then the reality is that if you do not possess effective long range weaponry, then by the time you are close enough to attack a submarine, that same submarine could easily have sunk you.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Apr 2019 12:41

Manish_P wrote:A very good article highlighted by Retd. Vice Admiral Arun Kumar Singh. Although the article is about the Royal navy, i felt some of the points being pertinent to the IN as well.



This logic could very well aplly to Type 56 corvette's of the PLAN as well

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Manish_P » 15 Apr 2019 12:55

^ Exactly :wink:

The old 'quality vs quantity' and 'quantity having a quality of it's own' arguments have been there for ages.

Emphasizes the Importance for adversaries with unequal economical/spending power (say China vs US and India vs China) to adopt the proper approach as per their own doctrine, needs & long term industrial capabilities
Last edited by Manish_P on 15 Apr 2019 14:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Apr 2019 13:12

Regarding Minesweepers can we use Helicopters/ Ships to fire RBS 60 or Lightweight torpedos to blow detected mines? Would it be cost effective?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 15 Apr 2019 16:25

Too costly and can sweep only floating mines not smart mines and captor mines ie lwt that lie on bottom sniffing

Minehunter is the new game

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby abhik » 15 Apr 2019 18:51

^^^
USV/UUVs will probably make the greatest difference in this field, hope we are investing in this field.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 15 Apr 2019 19:04

Manish_P wrote:^ Exactly :wink:

The old 'quality vs quantity' and 'quantity having a quality of it's own' arguments have been there for ages.

Emphasizes the Importance for adversaries with unequal economical/spending power (say China vs US and India vs China) to adopt the proper approach as per their own doctrine, needs & long term industrial capabilities


India is more like the US in regards to spending power in its neighborhood and that includes Cheen. The economic balance is on our side. Even the PRC cannot put more than a half dozen ships in the IOR at any given time.

So we should and must give better thought to long term industrial capabilities. The numbers of what we have now shows Indian domination over any adversary in South Asia and the IOR (barring a fight with the USN.)

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 16 Apr 2019 13:23

The INS Kolkata and INS Shakti in Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam, before invading Cheen later.

What a mighty TFTA looker the Kolkata is!

Image
Image
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Karthik S » 16 Apr 2019 13:45

chola wrote:The INS Kolkata and INS Shakti in Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam, before invading Cheen later.


:rotfl: saar is still at it.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby arshyam » 16 Apr 2019 16:50

He is trying to live up to his handle onlee... :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Austin » 16 Apr 2019 17:34

Manu Pubby

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Tragedy averted:

Navy says a Chetak chopper from an operationally deployed warship in the Arabian sea developed technical failure last week. Air crew managed to ditch it in the water and egressed safely. Inquiry ordered.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 17 Apr 2019 04:50

arshyam wrote:He is trying to live up to his handle onlee... :mrgreen:


Would have been more appropriate had it been the INS Chennai!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby arshyam » 17 Apr 2019 10:00

chola wrote:
arshyam wrote:He is trying to live up to his handle onlee... :mrgreen:


Would have been more appropriate had it been the INS Chennai!

OT, but I meant the king that commanded and wielded one of the largest naval forces in history, Rajendra Chola.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby MeshaVishwas » 17 Apr 2019 12:07


chola
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 17 Apr 2019 15:26

arshyam wrote:
chola wrote:
Would have been more appropriate had it been the INS Chennai!

OT, but I meant the king that commanded and wielded one of the largest naval forces in history, Rajendra Chola.


Yes, I know. All Tamils do. The greatest maritime empire Bharat ever had. At its height we were as far east as Indonesia, encompassing all of ASEAN today.

And a mighty trading power then like Cheen is nowadays.

It would have been proper for the INS Chennai -- named after the leading city of the Cholas' descendants -- to stake our first claim on the Middle Kingdom!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby nam » 17 Apr 2019 20:44

All right people, get down to work. What is the new circular thingi next to Barak8 on Ins Kolkatta? :D

Before someone says it is a Russian SAM, remember.. there is only MF Star, which does not speak Russia.

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby VikramA » 17 Apr 2019 20:50

nam wrote:All right people, get down to work. What is the new circular thingi next to Barak8 on Ins Kolkatta? :D

Before someone says it is a Russian SAM, remember.. there is only MF Star, which does not speak Russia.]


I think the old VLS still houses the Barak 1 and the new circular one might add barak 8. But ins Kolkata has not been through a refit so when were these added

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby MeshaVishwas » 17 Apr 2019 21:09

Vishnu NDTV said that they are the lids for the stored BrahMos canisters.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 18 Apr 2019 03:15

MeshaVishwas wrote:Vishnu NDTV said that they are the lids for the stored BrahMos canisters.

Looks to be bigger and different than Brahmos canister lids displayed here. And also Brahmos is stored with the canister in the launchers.

https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfo ... sile17.htm

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby krishna_krishna » 18 Apr 2019 06:48

Its Vicky vs. Charles de gaulle. Eagerly waiting on results of Mig 29k vs Rafale-m

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 930016.cms

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 18 Apr 2019 15:44

krishna_krishna wrote:Its Vicky vs. Charles de gaulle. Eagerly waiting on results of Mig 29k vs Rafale-m

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 930016.cms

Can't wait to see pictures from this! I really like the de Gaulle's design. Compact at 45K tons like the Vikramaditya but so much more efficient.

Packed with AWACS and fighters and still looks like it has plenty of room:

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 19 Apr 2019 00:38

^ One of advantages of catapults, even Vikrant won't be able to match air arm of CDG while having almost a similar dimension.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Karthik S » 19 Apr 2019 16:13

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Naval might - INS Imphal, third of the Project 15 B destroyers to be launched by Navy Chief Admiral Lanba on Saturday at MDL.
9:35 AM - 18 Apr 2019

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vips » 19 Apr 2019 16:40

Been such a long time since we have seen an addition of major war fighting ship.
Last edited by Vips on 19 Apr 2019 16:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Karthik S » 19 Apr 2019 16:44

Just launch, not commissioning.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby navneeet » 20 Apr 2019 16:10

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1119501269289394176

Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba: Indigenous Aircraft Carrier, INS Vikrant is undergoing outfitting at Kochi shipyard Ltd. Its harbour acceptance trials are in progress & sea acceptance trial will commence in the later half of this year; It will be delivered to Navy by 2021.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Karthik S » 20 Apr 2019 22:13


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby AdityaM » 21 Apr 2019 01:28

In this video at 3:21 a Mig29k takes off from VikAditya without using a ski jump
Is it for real or is the plane doing some low fly pass (unlikely)

Would a loaded 29k need a ski jump & empty one manage without one?

hanumadu wrote:Apologies if posted already.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 21 Apr 2019 01:34

AdityaM wrote:In this video at 3:21 a Mig29k takes off from VikAditya without using a ski jump
Is it for real or is the plane doing some low fly pass (unlikely)

Would a loaded 29k need a ski jump & empty one manage without one?

hanumadu wrote:Apologies if posted already.


Aditya ji, that is a "touch and go" exercise where an aircraft already flying comes down and simulate a run on the landing runway by touching down before taking off again.

Here are some examples of this on the VikA by the Russians with both MiG-29Ks and SU-33s:


Three of the four SU-33 had their gear extended but didn't actually touched down unlike the all 29Ks. Scared? The Vikramaditya is too small for them. lol

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rishi_Tri » 21 Apr 2019 04:40

chola wrote:
arshyam wrote:OT, but I meant the king that commanded and wielded one of the largest naval forces in history, Rajendra Chola.


Yes, I know. All Tamils do. The greatest maritime empire Bharat ever had. At its height we were as far east as Indonesia, encompassing all of ASEAN today.

And a mighty trading power then like Cheen is nowadays.

It would have been proper for the INS Chennai -- named after the leading city of the Cholas' descendants -- to stake our first claim on the Middle Kingdom!


Not only Indonesia, as far east as Philippines definitely and you never know, Raj Rajendra may even have reached Guam.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rishi_Tri » 21 Apr 2019 04:44

Karthik S wrote:


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 972691.cms

Article mentions about naming conventions. Destroyers after state capitals or big cities, Frigates after ranges, rivers or weapons, Corvettes after small arms.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby MeshaVishwas » 21 Apr 2019 08:26

Corvettes also named after Islands.
P-28 Kamorta Class.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vips » 21 Apr 2019 08:42

INS Imphal, the new guided-missile destroyer.

The first warship to be christened after a city in the northeast, the guided-missile destroyer Imphal, was "launched" into water at the Mazagon Docks in Mumbai on Saturday. Though the ship's launch weight was 3,037-tonne, it will go up to a massive 7,300-tonne once it is ready for commissioning with all its weapon systems, including BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles, as well as sensors in another three to four years :roll: .

Once it is commissioned as INS Imphal, after its two earlier underconstruction sister warships Visakhapatnam and Mormugao launched in 2015-2016, it will join the ranks of operational destroyers named INS Delhi, INS Mumbai, INS Mysore, INS Kolkata, INS Kochi and INS Chennai. "The ongoing tradition is to name indigenously-constructed destroyers, which are second only to aircraft carriers in size and combat power, after a state capital or big city," said an officer.

Similarly, the slightly smaller frigates are named after mountain ranges, rivers or weapons like INS Shivalik, INS Sahaydri and INS Trishul. The corvettes, in turn, are named after smaller personal weapons like INS Kirpan and INS Khanjar.

Imphal, which was launched by Navy chief Admiral Sunil Lanba's wife Reena in keeping with maritime traditions, is third of the four Visakhapatnam-class missile destroyers being constructed under "Project-15B" at MDL for around Rs 30,000 crore.

"Project-15B warships feature cutting-edge advanced technology, comparable to the best ships of similar class anywhere in the world. Designed indigenously by the Navy's Directorate of Naval Design, each ship spans 163-metre in length and 17.4-metre at beam, with a displacement of 7,300-tonne," said an officer.

"These ships, which can operate two multi-role helicopters each, are propelled by four gas turbines to achieve speed in excess
of 30 knots. The destroyers incorporate new design concepts for improved survivability, sea keeping, stealth and manoeuvrability," he added. The Navy, which currently has 140 warships and 220 aircraft, has 32 warships under construction in domestic shipyards at a total cost of Rs 1.26 lakh crore to replace its aging fleets and plug operational gaps.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Karthik S » 21 Apr 2019 08:50

Vips wrote:INS Imphal, the new guided-missile destroyer.

The first warship to be christened after a city in the northeast, the guided-missile destroyer Imphal, was "launched" into water at the Mazagon Docks in Mumbai on Saturday. Though the ship's launch weight was 3,037-tonne, it will go up to a massive 7,300-tonne once it is ready for commissioning with all its weapon systems, including BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles, as well as sensors in another three to four years :roll: .


Not surprising, we are very lazy and useless in bringing down construction time. Even paks if they had money would have been faster than us.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 21 Apr 2019 09:10

^ P-15b still uses the same approach as P-15a for build process, P-17a are supposed to be much improved in terms of construction time; 4 years as opposed to 6-7 with P-15b if things out as planned.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby arshyam » 21 Apr 2019 09:38

So this is not following the modular construction process?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby arshyam » 21 Apr 2019 09:40

3rd out of 4 P-15B launched, only one more to go. Time to place an order for P-15C? That will ensure we keep adding destroyers at a regular, albeit slow clip, and not to mention, it will also keep the shop floor busy. Will avoid the rather long gap seen between P-15A and P-15B ships.


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