INS Arihant: News & Discussion

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Sid
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Sid » 13 Feb 2019 08:50

It may also be the first Indian SSBN pic with a open missile silo hatch. That white blip is a silo hatch.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Cybaru » 13 Feb 2019 10:40

I keep repeating myself!

I really wonder if S1 was really a land based reactor. There is another nuke boat out there for sure..

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2019 10:53

Image

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2019 10:56

my intent of posting this photo is the 4 tubes shown on the arihant hump are really too far apart than needed and same form factor can accomodate more closely spaced tubes as in the ohio or any other SSBN
that section may not exactly need to 2X the length, maybe 1.5X will fit 8 tubes in one line.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 13 Feb 2019 11:08

Singha wrote:I dont think thats the Arihant but a 120m sub with 8 tubes (akula is 113m and this one is longer at both ends of pic). you can even vaguely make out the outline of 4 more tubes after of the open tube. 2 door outlines clearly visible on our side and 2 would on other side being a inline single row design

gentlemen of the regiment, I present the ARIGHAT !! :twisted:

which means it either arihant inside the half open shed or S3.

Agreed! The midsection seems too elongated to have only 4 hatches. It's worth using the other pic of the Arihant to establish whether the length of the conning tower and the proportionate length of the hull section up to the tailfin correspond to the ratio between them in previous pics of the Arihant. My guess it that this one is much too long in the midsection, which means this is indeed INS Arighat with 8 hatches, and the third boomer is the one that's currently sitting half obscured in the water, and Arihant is nowhere in sight.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 13 Feb 2019 11:13

INS Arihant: Length of raised hull section behind conning tower = 1-1.5 is as long as the conning tower.
Image
NOT the INS Arihant: Length of raised hull section behind conning tower = 3x the length of the conning tower
Image

The first pic is clearly a sub with space for just 4 hatches. The second pic is not the same sub, but a 120 meter long sub with at least 8 hatches.

Also not INS Arihant: The hull section behind the conning tower is way longer than the tower. Same proportions as the second picture and nothing like the first picture.
Image

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby disha » 13 Feb 2019 11:52

disha wrote:It could be that Arighat is berthing lazily and both Arihant and Aridaman is out there and the one under the veil is an altogether 4th SSBN being kitted out.


^Plug'ing in my own post. :D

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 13 Feb 2019 12:22

I don't understand wasn't the second boat Aridaman?

Or that's already in the water and out of sight and the we are discussing the third boat which is Arigat.

Or the Aridaman itself had its missile firing compartment elongated. And we're seeing her and not the Arigat.

Very konfusing I tell you. This last set of burka reveal.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 13 Feb 2019 12:36

Boat #2 and #3 are in a single pic on google earth. Neither seem to be the INS Arihant. Both are about the same length (~120m) and much longer than Arihant. Conclusion: there are two more SSBNs in the water, at least one of which (pic #2) is fully kitted out and the other (pic #3) is in harbour trials.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby suryag » 13 Feb 2019 12:38

sir these could be rubber inflatables in the port

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2019 13:34

^ :rotfl:

but yes a great day today, a character building day, a dhoti distribution day @ nathu la pass bazaar.

2nd & 3rd sub can be confirmed in the water.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 13 Feb 2019 13:46

Suraj wrote:Boat #2 and #3 are in a single pic on google earth. Neither seem to be the INS Arihant. Both are about the same length (~120m) and much longer than Arihant. Conclusion: there are two more SSBNs in the water, at least one of which (pic #2) is fully kitted out and the other (pic #3) is in harbour trials.

Cybaru-ji questioned S1 being the static reactor, who knows onlee. These boats in the pic could very well be boats #3 and #4 :D

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2019 16:34

apple maps - only arihant is there, and clearly shorter than sub in above pic. shed is almost closed.
bing maps - nothing on the pier, one sub visible inside shed but around around conning tower covered by some construction jig so no hull visible.
another one - just arihant - https://satellites.pro/#17.709088,83.269553,19

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby salaam » 13 Feb 2019 16:37

So in sum total. Both Aridaman class are in picture 2 and 3, while both Arihant class are not to be found.

Arihant and Arighat on prowl. And as usual no news of TD. ;)

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 13 Feb 2019 17:02

Comrades, that 13,000 Tonne wala kab ready hoga? I think construction would have started.

Edited:

The sub in the above pic is indeed 13,000 T shark.

Below article is dated Nov 2018.

https://www.businesstoday.in/top-story/ ... 92710.html


A second SSBN has reportedly completed sea trials. Named INS Arighat, the boat is due to be delivered next year and is expected to be double the Arihant's displacement at 12,000-13,000 tonnes, with a complement of eight K-4 missiles. Another two boats after Arighat are planned to be commissioned by 2023. "Following from these first four Arihant-class boats, another batch of even larger SSBNs is expected," says the Maryland, US, based institute. These new vessels will be equipped with brand new SLBMs having ranges up to 7000 km, allowing them to strike Chinese and Pakistani targets from well outside the Indian Ocean.


Only 8 SLBMs for a 13k Tonne SSBN sounds under-armed. Should be atleast 12 SLBMs. For instance, the Triomphant class that has similar displacement carries 16 SLBMs.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2019 17:15

i believe the boat alongside the akula would be around 8000-9000t empty, not the 12-13k tons.

perhaps second class of SSBN will be that size. the troimphant is 138m, 13000t and 13m beam(which permits 2 rows of silos) - its a far larger submarine.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby sahay » 13 Feb 2019 17:18

Seems to be a misreporting. A 13,000 tonne sub can't run on a 83 MWth reactor. S5 and following will be 13,000 tonne class and they need a bigger reactor.

Karthik S
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 13 Feb 2019 17:25

Singha wrote:i believe the boat alongside the akula would be around 8000-9000t empty, not the 12-13k tons.

perhaps second class of SSBN will be that size. the troimphant is 138m, 13000t and 13m beam(which permits 2 rows of silos) - its a far larger submarine.


Indeed, then the sub in the pic should be the one that's in between Arihant and 13k Tonne sub. I hope we build one with wide enough beam for 2 silos for 16 SLMBS and not waste real estate space as we have done on our P-15s.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby JTull » 13 Feb 2019 20:39

Singha wrote:I dont think thats the Arihant but a 120m sub with 8 tubes (akula is 113m and this one is longer at both ends of pic). you can even vaguely make out the outline of 4 more tubes after of the open tube. 2 door outlines clearly visible on our side and 2 would on other side being a inline single row design

gentlemen of the regiment, I present the ARIGHAT !! :twisted:

which means it either arihant inside the half open shed or 3rd sub.


Agreed.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2019 21:28

2nd sub was launched by Defmin in Nov2017 per news archives. so its 14 months in the water and surely reactor is critical and harbour trials done, it must be periodically foraying out for sea trials. we can surely expect 2020 induction, preceded by K4 firing unless some major issue emerges.

its hard to say if 3rd sub in the shed is ready to roll or not. I assume that shed is not construction shed, more like a fitting out thing after floating out from drydock construction shed?

so unless any new regime comes to power and starves of funds the momentum is there to
- induct 2nd , 3rd, 4th sub
- follow on classes of SSBN and SSN building
- K4, K5 (mirv and non mirv variants) with our current heavy FBF warheads

what we really need to optimize our SLBM tubes is lighter TN warhead to pack in 4-5 in each MIRV bus.
for this
- we need to engineer (or have the luck to enjoy) a world situation where P5 fall out of consensus on test ban and begin testing brand new ultra light next gen warheads, which we can use a shadow to test our own series of designs
- build a laser ignition facility -
- does it need data from older tests to work?
- do we have internal ability to build one? (i heard back in day US shared tech with uk and france for this to get them onboard CTBT, russia built its own and china was building its own too)

Shenguang Laser Project for Inertial Confinement Fusion:

The Shenguang (Divine Light) laser project explores the inertial confinement fusion (ICF) as an alternative approach to attain inertial fusion energy (IFE) – a controllable, sustained nuclear fusion reaction aided by an array of high-powered lasers. The lasers essentially heat and compress pellet-sized targets typically containing two hydrogen isotopes deuterium and tritium, sending shock waves into the centre and releasing energy that heats the surrounding fuel, which may also undergo fusion. Shenguang aims to achieve such “burn” – fusion ignition and plasma burning by 2020, while advancing research in solving the complex technological challenges associated with controlling the nuclear reaction.

Shenguang’s target physics, theory and experimentation, began as early as 1993. By 2012, China completed the Shenguang 3 (Divine Light 3) a high-powered super laser facility based in the Research Centre of Laser Fusion at the China Academy of Engineering Physics – the research and manufacturing centre of China’s nuclear weapons located in Mianyang. In this context, Shenguang has two strategic implications: it may accelerate China’s next-generation thermo-nuclear weapons development, and advance China’s directed-energy laser weapons programs.

its a massive project being done in phases and has both civil and military applications
http://www.sglf.net/AboutUs/History

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 13 Feb 2019 21:28

Another pic of Arihant for proportion reference: Image
It appears clear that Arihant's raised hump section is nowhere as prominent or long as that of the inflatable boats in pics #2 and #3 above. It's possible these inflatable boats accommodate space for a longer flower petal delivery device.

For boat #3, there's a long tube like thing connected to the sub next to the gantry crane, so I'm guessing it's on shore power doing harbour acceptance trials of some kind . Doesn't seem like active construction.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2019 21:42

yes those big white tubes bring power and some cooled air to ventilate the ship in harbour.

hump could be taller by 1m to accomodate known plan for K5/K6.
the M45 SLBM is 11m, the M51 is 12m. trident is 13m.
the K4 is claimed as 12m in wiki which I doubt if arihant diameter is 10m like LA688 sub and 1m of hump. could be 11m.

so 12m and 3 stage would pretty much accomodate the longest range SLBMs around.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Dileep » 14 Feb 2019 10:05

Those who 'lungi flutter' (that is opposite of dhoti shiver) please scan through the historic images of the same area on googal airth.

There are two fish, both very similar to each other. Note that the aspect ratio of the images are often skewed, so rely on the measurement tool.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 14 Feb 2019 11:22

Dileep you are saying something?

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 14 Feb 2019 11:46

ks_sachin wrote:Dileep you are saying something?



That there are only 2 boats and we are imaging the second one to be longer than the first.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 14 Feb 2019 15:02

Thanks. I know but prefer someone of Dileeps stature to tighten the lungi...

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Dileep » 14 Feb 2019 17:42

Yes, the lungi will remain tight till it is time to deploy and celebrate. Fluttering it prematurely is not in my istyle onlee.

To tell the truth, initially I thought Singha was right, but flipping through the number of past images available, and taking some measurements convinced me otherwise.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2019 19:19

:( you could have cut me some slack there, its only 5 hrs short of friday.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby GopiD » 14 Feb 2019 19:49

This might give a better angle to compare the lengths of the subs.


Image

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 14 Feb 2019 21:15

Singha wrote::( you could have cut me some slack there, its only 5 hrs short of friday.

:D the measurement tool indicates a length of ~113m for pic #2 . No way of telling how long inflatable #3 is since it’s half concealed .

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 14 Feb 2019 21:32

There's only ONE sub of Arihant size, that is the Arihant itself. If these 2 boats are larger or/and of same size, then these are indeed S3 and S4. Arihant (S2) is not in this pic.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Gagan » 14 Feb 2019 22:49

Total only 3 N subs
Chakra: Deployed
Arihant: Deployed
Arighat - in Harbour trials

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 14 Feb 2019 23:15

{Slinks back off to tech/eco forum with dhoti between legs}

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby prasannasimha » 14 Feb 2019 23:18

There was an accident in SBC which was reported that spilled the beans that a second sib was very much being built along with Arihant and if Arighat was launched there are definitely more than 2 subs

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby disha » 15 Feb 2019 05:20

Gagan wrote:Total only 3 N subs
Chakra: Deployed
Arihant: Deployed
Arighat - in Harbour trials


What about Aridaman? Where is it?

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby suryag » 15 Feb 2019 07:58

All this s1,2,3 discussion reminds me of Tejas lines1,2,3 :)

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 15 Feb 2019 08:30

My pawam mathemagics says there are 4 nuke subs
1 akula class
1 arihant class
2 aridhaman class as seen Google image.

3 in water, 1 being kitted out.

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Gagan » 15 Feb 2019 08:42

disha wrote:
Gagan wrote:Total only 3 N subs
Chakra: Deployed
Arihant: Deployed
Arighat - in Harbour trials


What about Aridaman? Where is it?

Maybe still inside SBC?
Arighat might be 4 tubed version only.
Aridaman might be the 8 tubed version.

The follow on 13K ton sub was still on the drawing board?

China, for example has SSNs and stretched versions of the same SSNs which are SSBNs.
Now onto 3 different pairs of each

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby Gagan » 16 Feb 2019 03:05

Are Arihant and Chakra deployed as we speak

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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 16 Feb 2019 04:48

Gagan wrote:Are Arihant and Chakra deployed as we speak

Yes I'm tweeting from chakra... Will hoop to akula tomorrow


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