INS Arihant: News & Discussion

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 27 Jul 2020 21:09

https://twitter.com/SandeepUnnithan/sta ... 92704?s=20 ---> Happy Kargil Vijay Divas. On this day remembering another milestone this year 11 years ago, the launch of our 1st SSBN INS Arihant (S2) at the Ship Building Centre (SBC), Vizag. Copy of the India Today graphic initialed by legends who made it happen - incl Vice Admiral MK Roy, first DG-ATV.

https://twitter.com/SandeepUnnithan/sta ... 72704?s=20 ---> And this comment wall from our defence reporting corps - the only occasion media were allowed into the SBC.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Aug 2020 19:18

https://twitter.com/cvkrishnan/status/1 ... 83904?s=20 ---> When an Ohio Class SSBN is deployed no one questions it’s deployment, intent or capability. But lo, news comes that India has deployed sea based nuke deterrent and every analyst jumps in to discount the entire deployment as a farce! Objectivity too is home quarantined I guess!

wig · Post by **wig** » 26 Aug 2020 19:34

The ATV project was Atmanirbhar since its inception: Vice Admiral PC Bhasin (retd)

https://www.indiatoday.in/india-today-i ... 2020-08-24

very informative. worth reading in full
extracts

There were two very mature decisions taken under the guidance of the Prime Minister.

One was that we did not want to reinvent the wheel, so we decided that we would buy the design from an international agency and proceed with that. Here, we primarily wanted the ‘know how’ and the ‘know why’ of the design. We were also fortunate that we were able to get the normatives from the suppliers—the norms around which the design of a particular item, like a car, a motorcycle, a ship or a submarine is established. Companies [generally] never tell you anything of the normatives—this is their [intellectual property]. Our supplier was very kind—though we paid a very tidy sum for it, we got the normatives. The advantage was that with these, we could alter the design to our requirements or update it. For example, [suppose] we had designed a submarine with a maximum diving depth of 100 metres, but [later] wanted to increase that to 150 or 200 metres. To do that, we do not have to reinvent the wheel—we already have the normatives, so we update the design and change it as required. With this we had made designs for an SSBN. We have also been quite successful in [modifying] the design for an SSN (non-ballistic nuclear submarine). Though we didn’t have the build parameters for this, we are quite happy with [our design].

The second key decision was that the Navy wanted the private sector to enter the field. We were married to the concept of atmanirbharta, and we could achieve that only if the private sector came in to the project and worked with us, because the Navy cannot continuously provide the necessary manpower the way the private sector can. This being a special project, all the private sector firms and MSMEs [we brought in] were very keen to join.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 26 Aug 2020 21:46

wig wrote:The ATV project was Atmanirbhar since its inception: Vice Admiral PC Bhasin (retd)

https://www.indiatoday.in/india-today-i ... 2020-08-24

very informative. worth reading in full
extracts

Also, the ATV programme was not only about building the submarine—it was also about building nuclear weapons. Those nuclear weapons are 100 per cent indigenous. We take credit for that—we did it ourselves.

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 26 Aug 2020 23:28

The Admiral hints (i feel) that we can make Submarines locally, the foreign tech is not very critical, certain items can be integrated with our local design.

The lack of official push and interest in this line of thought is appalling.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 28 Aug 2020 05:16

Take a look at the photograph on the wall

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Aug 2020 13:01

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/cvkrishnan/status/1 ... 83904?s=20 ---> When an Ohio Class SSBN is deployed no one questions it’s deployment, intent or capability. But lo, news comes that India has deployed sea based nuke deterrent and every analyst jumps in to discount the entire deployment as a farce! Objectivity too is home quarantined I guess!

late response.

The Indian media will only accept that an Indian submarine is on patrol if the wife / GF of the CO is seen dancing on top of the Missile tubes of a deployed sub.

Or it didn't happen.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Aug 2020 19:11

Rishirishi wrote:Take a look at the photograph on the wall

Why is this post in this thread?

How does it relate to the Arihant Class?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 29 Aug 2020 08:11

Rakesh wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:Take a look at the photograph on the wall
Why is this post in this thread?

How does it relate to the Arihant Class?

Because they're waiting for you to distribute the displacement in ladoos since SSBN is now deployed.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 06 Sep 2020 11:22

After INS Arihant, India’s Second Indigenous Nuclear Submarine INS Arighat Set To Enter Into Service By 2020 End - Swarajya

In a major fillip for the Indian Navy's capabilities and arsenal, its second nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine after INS Arihant, the INS Arighat is set to be deployed into service by the end of 2020, reports Naval News.

Developed under the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project, INS Arighat has been built at the shipbuilding centre located in Andhra Pradesh's Visakhapatnam. It is set to complete three years of sea trials and will thereafter enter service with the Indian Navy.

The submarine is capable of carrying more missiles than INS Arihant, and it comes with the ability to cruise at a maximum speed of 12-15 nautical miles on the surface of water and can achieve a speed of 24 nautical miles while submerged.

The indigenous nuclear submarine will have eight launch tubes and will be armed with 12 K-15 Sagarika missiles which have a range of 750 km. It will also be able to carry up to four K-4 missiles that have a range of 3,500 km.

It had been reported in December 2014 that the work on INS Arighat had begun and it was likely to be launched in 2016. In 2017, the launch took place in a closely guarded fashion since when it had been undergoing sea trials. Originally it had been named INS Arindaman but was later named INS Arighat during the launch event.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Sep 2020 12:43

3 years to complete trials. We have to speed things up. Otherwise we will lose a significant chunk of the reactor life in trials itself.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 06 Sep 2020 14:00

If the construction began in 2014, then the time line is as per the global best practices atleast in this program.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 06 Sep 2020 20:21

^^^
More that the commissioning/trials period, the build timelines don't make sense. Arihant was launched in 2009, and Arighat in 2017 (a gap of 8 years!) - it like we are building them serially one at a time.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 06 Sep 2020 20:27

abhik wrote:^^^
More that the commissioning/trials period, the build timelines don't make sense. Arihant was launched in 2009, and Arighat in 2017 (a gap of 8 years!) - it like we are building them serially one at a time.

To be fair, given that the Arihant was not only the lead submarine in its class, but our very first attempt at a nuclear submarine, its actually a good thing that they built it serially... that way, the lessons learnt from Arihant in deployment could be used to improve the Arighat. Nothing worse than duplicating a mistake on the second attempt by finalizing its design and beginning build when the first attempt hasn't even been put through its paces. I'd expect that the next few subs in class will be faster, with increased design maturity and stability.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 06 Sep 2020 21:04

L&T build Titanium sonar dome, in all probability for Arihant class submarines

More here https://www.lnt-defence.com/our-offerin ... onar-dome/

The Chakra & Type 877EKM have torpedo tubes on top, so definitely not for them. Type 209/1500 has a different hullform

It can also be a ship sonar dome but that would have the bottom part missing here

There is the possibility of it being a fake image to mislead or a representative image. The image shows editing in the top part and behind part.

Titanium indicates deeper diving depth.

Typically Western design submarines have sonar dome on top and torpedo tubes below. Russian submarines have the reverse philosophy

Ofcourse there is the possibility of the image being a representative image or a fake image.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 07 Sep 2020 10:06

On further research and from memory, the Arihant class too has the torpedo tubes on top.

This is a Russian Delta Class submarine and the L&T sonar dome corresponds to the layout

Compared to the height of the man, the scaffolding in the L&T image also corresponds to approximate dimensions. The L&T folks tried to airbrush the scaffolding and give the appearance of a room.

No conventional submarine in Indian service has a titanium sonar dome.

It can be for the Type 877 EKM as well, but that Type too never had a titanium sonar dome.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 07 Sep 2020 10:54

Is the 8 launch tubes for Arighat a typo?

12 K-15 or 4 K-4 means four launch tubes, unless they mean 12 K-15 plus 4 K-4! That'd be great news, but wouldn't it also mean that the loadout can be 12 K-4s potentially?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Sep 2020 12:36

Prem Kumar wrote:Is the 8 launch tubes for Arighat a typo?

No, that's not a typo.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 07 Sep 2020 13:29

The first three submarines were supposed to have 4 "large" tubes.

When P Chidambaram asked for extra tubes, then the second submarine was taken up for modification but the first and third were to be completed to original 4 "large" tube configuration since faster time to service was an important consideration.

An additional fourth submarine was added.

So we should have 2 4 "large" tube submarines and 2 8 "large" tube submarines.

Of course, plans change, and this narrative is anecdotal and maybe submarine 2-4 will have 8 tubes.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 09 Sep 2020 01:49

SSridhar wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:Is the 8 launch tubes for Arighat a typo?
No, that's not a typo.

That Swarajya article does not make complete sense though. They mention Arighat having 8 tubes instead of 4 like the Arihant, but the complement of missiles mentioned is the same as the Arihant (12 K-15 and 4 K-4). It should be double of that if the number of tubes is doubled. Also, if that is really true, wouldn't the submarine be larger, heavier and require a bigger higher power reactor?

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 09 Sep 2020 17:26

nachiket wrote:
SSridhar wrote: No, that's not a typo.
That Swarajya article does not make complete sense though. They mention Arighat having 8 tubes instead of 4 like the Arihant, but the complement of missiles mentioned is the same as the Arihant (12 K-15 and 4 K-4). It should be double of that if the number of tubes is doubled. Also, if that is really true, wouldn't the submarine be larger, heavier and require a bigger higher power reactor?

12 K-15 and 4 K-4
vs
12 K-15 or 4 K-4

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 09 Sep 2020 19:19

Oh Chidambaram!

For some unknown reason, he was selected as a committee member of Parliament defence Commitee. He raised the objection that INS Arihant has only 4 launch tubes , despite having a high cost, as already explained by Tsarkar Saar above.

Standard Delay tactics.

It is a credit to the DRDO team that they developed a solution quickly - an extra plug with 4 tubes , 7000 ton displacement and "acceptable performance". Estimate the top speed is at approx. 17-19 Knots, down from 22, and uses the same 83 MWe / 17 MW propulsion plant.

If he had not raised these objections in 2008-9, there would not have been delay / rework and could have been 1-2 extra submarines today, perhaps.

Having 4 submarines today (16 tubes) is better than having 3 submarines in 2022 (again with 16 tubes). Its not only about equivalent ballistic missile firepower, the extra platform can also do other duties like reconn, fire K-15 / Klub missiles, etc.

However, I credit the Indian Govt. / stakeholders for overcoming all obstacles and inducting 2 submarines till date, quite capable and potent platforms, multirole attack / H-K / Ballistic, can fire torpedos, mines, Klub Missiles, K-15 and the K-4.

Range is only limited by the amount of food and the Captain's mood.

Srutayus · Post by **Srutayus** » 09 Sep 2020 20:41

Borei class submarine. Spot the resemblence

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 09 Sep 2020 23:15

Srutayus wrote:

Borei class submarine. Spot the resemblence

Is my eyes playing the tricks or the L&T specimen has been kept upside down deliberately

Just to confuse the 'Wise ones'

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 10 Sep 2020 10:29

Kept upside down for ease of access.

Fooled me as well initially. I over thought for a minute like a jingo

Typically for a deep diving titanium hulled submarine, the targets will be above. So the sonar is kept above and torpedo tubes below

The Americans go a step further and use the entire bow for a massive spherical sonar and fire torpedoes from the side at a slant angle.

Then I became grounded when memories came back that other than propulsion and missiles, the rest of design is very conventional.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 11 Sep 2020 19:17

By 2005 we should aim at having at least 4 " boomers" active. With one in the docks for maintenance/ refit,3 X 8/12 BMs should give us a min. of 24 X 3 warheads of MIRV/ MARVs totally. Once the full SSBN fleet is available,around 120+ warheads would be available on approx.50 launchers.The first ATV,the Arihant could be used as an SSGN,with 12 K-15s,

idan · Post by **idan** » 25 Sep 2020 01:38

May the departed soul attain moksha ... Dr Sekhar Basu

Nuclear scientist Sekhar Basu dies of Covid-19
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 297285.cms

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Sep 2020 07:56

Truly tragic .His contribution to our N-sub programme was immense. His death at the early age of 68 too has robbed the nation of a great scientific mind who had much more to contribute to the nation.We salute you !

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 01 Mar 2021 09:54

Check out Google Earth - lat - 17.710812°, Long - 83.268017°. Seems a new (fatter?) fish in the water.

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 01 Mar 2021 12:03

This thread and the machines that prowl the oceans are in silent mode when the LAC is/was on tenterhook. Down the line, we may come across the stories about the fishes going and waiting near the Chinese cities and ships just waiting for the code to be delivered and take the surprizes to the next level and convention. Lets see how long it will take for the information to become public..

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 01 Mar 2021 12:44

Vivek K wrote:Check out Google Earth - lat - 17.710812°, Long - 83.268017°. Seems a new (fatter?) fish in the water.

Nice! So, what's this new baby?

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 01 Mar 2021 13:15

gpurewal · Post by **gpurewal** » 01 Mar 2021 15:20

The rudder profile is extremely intriguing. Could this be a SSN?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 01 Mar 2021 17:42

Vivek K wrote:Check out Google Earth - lat - 17.710812°, Long - 83.268017°. Seems a new (fatter?) fish in the water.

Arihant class

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 01 Mar 2021 19:29

Seems same as the other boat on the pier below this one..

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 01 Mar 2021 22:46

Same length but a little fatter.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 02 Mar 2021 01:01

Vivek K wrote:Same length but a little fatter.

Its just not carrying as much weight and hence out of the water

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 03 Mar 2021 00:22

we are now in the 3rd month and no news about INS Arighat which was supposed to be commissioned in 'early 2021'.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 03 Mar 2021 02:25

I don't think they announce induction of strategic assets that way.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Mar 2021 02:59

They do not. Well after induction and when the GOI feels the time is right, it is announced.

Considering the neighbourhood India lives in, it is best to leave her second strike capability ambiguous.