Terroristan - October 8, 2018

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menon s
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby menon s » 07 Jan 2019 12:38

The Pakistani military, despite a parliamentary vote blocking its participation, has quietly dispatched 1,000 soldiers to bolster Saudi forces inside the kingdom.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/28/worl ... &smtyp=cur

menon s
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby menon s » 07 Jan 2019 13:06

For the record, our net international reserves are now at negative $11 billion. What that means is that our liquidity has already dried up (read: no dollars left). As of November 30, international reserves with the SBP were $7,265 million;


Alarmingly, we are gulping down around $2 billion a month. China’s loan of $1 billion that came in July is long gone. The $1 billion received from Saudi Arabia in November is gone. Saudi Arabia’s billion that came in December is also gone. Do we have a policy other than the so-called ‘packages from friendly countries’?


:rotfl:

Farukk Saleem....ire of dr...scorned!
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/415189-alarm-bells

arun
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby arun » 07 Jan 2019 18:13

In the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Green on Green sub-sectarian violence between members of the belief of Peace pitting Mohammaddens of the Sunni Sect and Barelvi Sub-Sect and Mohammaddens of the Sunni Sect and Deobandi Sub-Sect over procession of a masjid, results in a death:

Man shot dead, three injured as religious groups fight over 'possession' of mosque in Karachi

chetak
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby chetak » 07 Jan 2019 22:54

watch video


GAURAV C SAWANT Verified account @gauravcsawant 13h13 hours ago

Pak has hardly 6 days of fuel.pak faces a shortage of food, electricity, fuel. Pak must stop terror, punish terrorists & avoid global scrutiny. Can't go on denying facts known to all like Ajmal Amir Kasab was a Pakistani from Faridkot (Interesting conversation on Pak television)





https://twitter.com/gauravcsawant/status/1082120946637406210

arun
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby arun » 10 Jan 2019 13:04

‘Black Magic’ Caused My Early Return from South Africa: Haris Sohail:

Clicky

Not the first time that Haris Sohail, cricketer playing for the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan, has claimed to have had an encounter with supernatural type events :D . He claimed the same during a New Zealand tour in 2015.

Pakistan cricket player Haris Sohail 'traumatised' by supernatural presence in Christchurch hotel room:

Clicky

Rather than tweeting congratulations to the Indian Cricket Team for being “first ever win by a :wink: subcontinent team :wink: in a test series in Australia” despite pointedly not congratulating South Africa for thrashing the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan at the Newlands Test Match to seal Test Match series victory; Imran Khan Niazi should get his Biwi Mark III, Pinki Peerni Bushra Bibi, to do some Islamic Peerni type mumbo jumbo to exorcise whatever Djinn aka Genie is harassing Haris Sohail :lol: .

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby arun » 10 Jan 2019 13:41

Message to credulous Indians who in a wholly misplaced sense of brotherhood claim shared culture :roll: , among other supposedly shared traits, with the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan :shock: like the joker Nehru Gandhi Family Dynasty Led Congress Party Minister of Punjab State, Navjot Singh Sidhu :x ( Sidhu’s remark on greater cultural affinity with Pak than south India draws flak). Head of the Judicial Jihadi’s of the Mohammdden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Mian Saqib Nisar, a Punjabi to boot just like Navjot Singh Sidhu albeit a Mohammadden, declares Indian Culture is antithetical to the Culture of the Islamic Republic :P :

Will not allow Indian content as 'it damages our culture': CJP

Chief Justice of Pakistan Mian Saqib Nisar on Wednesday made it clear that the Supreme Court will not allow Indian content to be shown on Pakistani TV channels as it "damages our culture". ......................

Bart S
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Bart S » 10 Jan 2019 17:38

arun wrote:‘Black Magic’ Caused My Early Return from South Africa: Haris Sohail:

Clicky

Not the first time that Haris Sohail, cricketer playing for the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan, has claimed to have had an encounter with supernatural type events :D . He claimed the same during a New Zealand tour in 2015.

Pakistan cricket player Haris Sohail 'traumatised' by supernatural presence in Christchurch hotel room:

Clicky

Rather than tweeting congratulations to the Indian Cricket Team for being “first ever win by a :wink: subcontinent team :wink: in a test series in Australia” despite pointedly not congratulating South Africa for thrashing the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan at the Newlands Test Match to seal Test Match series victory; Imran Khan Niazi should get his Biwi Mark III, Pinki Peerni Bushra Bibi, to do some Islamic Peerni type mumbo jumbo to exorcise whatever Djinn aka Genie is harassing Haris Sohail :lol: .



Hang on a second there. The link you pasted has the below Youtube video in it, and the thumbnail of said video seems to indicate that it might be Peerni herself who is haunting Haris Sohail! :lol:


shravan
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby shravan » 10 Jan 2019 17:51

Bakistan is getting more Islam.

https://twitter.com/sabina_ahmad/status ... 9773851648
Went to Bank Alfalah for cancelling a Pay Order. Was told to produce two witnesses for cancellation. Asked my mother to sign for a witness only to be told that only male admissible as witnesses... beyond appalled.


Went to get a stamp paper for an official declaration and asked for the process. He explained the process and told me to bring two witnesses and to ensure that they are both males!

shravan
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby shravan » 10 Jan 2019 18:14

After a dramatic attack in Loralai Cantt, 300 civilian families, living close to the cantonment, are forced to vacate their homes on a 48 hour notice and their houses demolished.

They are repeating the history of swat and Fata in 2019 tht will again make pashtun to chant the slogans ye jo dehshat gardi hai esky pechy wardi hai..
https://www.facebook.com/10000052707774 ... 586578787/

dinesh_kimar
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby dinesh_kimar » 10 Jan 2019 18:20

^ We must be quietly supportive of Haris Sohail, and not mock him, for the greater good of the sport.

We must encourage him to seek the services of a good Witchdoctor.

I understand that certain specialists possessing a powerful juju have done wonders for African football.

anupmisra
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby anupmisra » 11 Jan 2019 03:15

Pakis should spin this "bad" news as "something to respect".

Paki passport fifth least likely to be stolen!
Actual title: "Pakistani passport ranked fifth-worst in the world"

Pakistani passport has moved up two spots :P on the 2019 Henley Passport Index but continues to remain the fifth-worst passport globally, offering its holders visa-free access to just 33 countries, according to the newly unveiled Henley Passport Index.
the Pakistani passport is better than only four other countries: Somalia, Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq


https://dailytimes.com.pk/342596/pakist ... the-world/

So, just which are the 33 countries that provide visa-free access on arrival to a paki momeen?

Cambodia *
Maldives *
Nepal *
Timor-Leste *
Benin *
Cape Verde Islands *
Comores Islands *

Djibouti *
Guinea-Bissau *
Kenya *
Madagascar *
Mauritania *
Mozambique *
Rwanda *
Seychelles *
Somalia *
Tanzania *
Togo *
Uganda *
Cook Islands
Niue
Palau Islands *
Samoa *
Tuvalu *
Vanuatu
Dominica
Haiti
Montserrat
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Trinidad and Tobago
Bolivia *
Qatar

https://www.henleypassportindex.com/passport

anupmisra
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby anupmisra » 11 Jan 2019 03:19

23 Pakistanis living illegally in UK sent packing by authorities

The United Kingdom (UK) deported 23 Pakistanis from the country on Thursday. The persons deported from the UK were living illegally in the country.
In October last year, Thai authorities had convicted at least 70 Pakistani asylum seekers of staying illegally in Thailand, as police intensify a crackdown on illegal immigration.


https://dailytimes.com.pk/342869/23-pak ... thorities/

Bart S
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Bart S » 11 Jan 2019 04:23

anupmisra wrote:So, just which are the 33 countries that provide visa-free access on arrival to a paki momeen?


Nepal *


Extremely serious security threat for us as we have an open border with Nepal. :evil:

jash_p
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby jash_p » 11 Jan 2019 05:58

In social media it is discused that Asad Umar said that Pakis are in good condition and not taking IMF package.

Vivasvat
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Vivasvat » 11 Jan 2019 06:05

The Scots could look into the future long back!

Pawky
Pronunciation: [paw-kee]

Meaning
adjective, pawk·i·er, pawk·i·est. Chiefly British.
cunning; sly.

Origin of pawky
1670–80; Scots pawk trick + -y

Related forms
pawk·i·ly , adverb
pawk·i·ness , noun

May I suggest Pawkystan for the BRF dictionary?
:rotfl:

yensoy
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby yensoy » 11 Jan 2019 06:45

Bart S wrote:
anupmisra wrote:So, just which are the 33 countries that provide visa-free access on arrival to a paki momeen?
Nepal *

Extremely serious security threat for us as we have an open border with Nepal. :evil:


Ok say Nepal institutes visa requirements for Pakis tomorrow. Then what? ISI plant will get a Nepali visa and still make his way into India.

We have a problem as long as border is open. Either that, or Nepal provides us a list of all Pakis entering and exiting its territory.

sum
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby sum » 11 Jan 2019 07:55

Either that, or Nepal provides us a list of all Pakis entering and exiting its territory.

Something tells me this might already be happening

SSridhar
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby SSridhar » 11 Jan 2019 09:04

India raises 5 points to prove Imran govt is trying to mainstream terror - Sachin Parashar, ToI
With Pakistan PM Imran Khan stating that it is India which has blocked engagement between the two countries, the government has hit out at Pakistan saying Islamabad has done nothing to create an atmosphere conducive to dialogue.

Top official sources told TOI that despite Islamabad's claims that action was being taken against terrorism, there was no sign of movement on this front. On the contrary, they insisted, Pakistan's actions under Khan showed that Islamabad was not only providing support to terrorists but also seeking to mainstream terrorist groups.

This, according to the Indian government, was evidenced by 5 specific instances as per information compiled by it.

First, Pakistan Minister of State for Interior Shehryar Afridi is said to have met JuD leader and UN proscribed terrorist Hafiz Saeed’s representatives in Islamabad on December 16-17, 2018, and "openly extended" Pakistan government’s support to Saeed and his organisation. The minister reportedly said that nobody was going to target Saeed as long as the ruling PTI party was in power.

Second, JuD opened rescue centres in November, 2018, POK which were inaugurated by a local PTI leader. This, according to Indian authorities, shows open support for JuD which is on the UNSC sanctions list.

Third is the fact that JuD and its NGO Falah-i-Insaniyat Foundation (FIF) ceased to be in the list of banned organisations in Pakistan after the presidential ordinance that proscribed them as banned entities lapsed late last year.
This was made possible with the Pakistan government, sources here said, confirming in Islamabad High Court that the ordinance had lapsed and that Pakistan government neither extended the ordinance nor tabled it in Parliament to convert it into a law. Saeed had challenged the ordinance placing ban on JuD and FIF in court.

Fourth, banned terror outfit Hizbul Mujahideen leader and United Jehad Council (UJC) chairman Syed Salahuddin in October, 2018, called for Pakistan military support to terrorists active in J&K. This was from a press conference organised by the UJC in Muzaffarabad in the presence of Mohamed Asghar of Jaish-e-Mohammed, Masood Amir of Hizb-e-Islami and LeT commander Dr Manzoor.

Fifth, in September 2018, Pakistan religious minister Noor-ul-Haq Qadri shared a public platform with Saeed on September 30, 2018, where both of them made "vitriolic" anti-India statements. Qadri was quoted as having said that he attended the conference by Difa-e-Pakistan Council on Khan’s instructions.


India’s position on terrorism, as spelt out here, effectively means curtains for any hope of a substantive engagement between the two countries before general elections in India. Khan had told a group of Indian journalists in November this year that Pakistan would not allow its soil to be used for terrorism outside. According to the Indian government though, steps taken by Pakistan were only cosmetic in nature.

"JuD and FIF are not banned in Pakistan. They are only under the watch list of NACTA (National Counter Terrorism Authority) of the interior ministry. They can continue legally with their so called welfare activities which they use for anti-India activities across Indo-Pak border," said an official familiar with the issue.

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Vikas » 11 Jan 2019 14:13

SSridhar Ji, Sometimes it feels like that India too has not interest in sorting out JuD and Hafiz except for use them as PR stunt against Pakistan in wider world forums.

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby souravB » 11 Jan 2019 18:43

Sir, there is definite advantage for India to keep the fire burning. As you rightly said these are PR stunts and we have been quite successful with it in North America and Europe. Certainly Pawkystan has lost some TFTA allies.
Also the thing is JuD or Saeed is under some degree of control of ISI, outing them might just replace it with some more fundamental elements which will be in direct control of IS.
To be fair, Pawkies do and will act as a buffer between India and all the other cr*p going on in middle east taking the brunt of it. Also they really set the bar low, so we look like a golden child in the region.

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Bart S » 11 Jan 2019 20:52

Vikas wrote:SSridhar Ji, Sometimes it feels like that India too has not interest in sorting out JuD and Hafiz except for use them as PR stunt against Pakistan in wider world forums.


The 2008 Mumbai terror attacks have basically led to Pakistan's isolation and downhill spiral, in a sense. They also saved India from that useless Musharraf-MMS deal. So, tragic as it was for India, the consequences for Pakistan have been and will be much more destructive.

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Vips » 12 Jan 2019 21:31

Why SAARC is still relevant.

Imran Khan earned a lot of popular support in Pakistan by opening up the Kartarpur Sahib gurudwara to Sikh yatris from across the border with India. He talked of “peace and trade” and was hailed by the man in the street. In fact, Prime Minister Khan was so sure of “real” public support that he began toying with the idea of mid-term polls to bag a two-thirds majority in parliament that would enable him to change the laws which obstruct his political agenda.

His foreign minister, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, however, stabbed Khan in the back by calling the Kartarpur overture a “googly”. Instead of commending him for his anti-India bluster, Pakistan’s powerful media unanimously condemned him for his gaffe. Khan was silent before the media but reportedly showed his annoyance at what Qureshi had done. That the whole of Pakistan — including the army — didn’t like Qureshi’s googly means the time for such antics is over(On the contrary a majority of the talk show participants and anchors in pakistan were complimenting Qureshi on putting India on the defensive by this remark and only shows it was designed with ulterior motive of stroking separatists feelings amongst the Sikhs).

However, Najam Sethi wrote in The Friday Times of November 30: “Now Pakistan’s reopening of the Kartarpur…is being billed as some sort of peace breakthrough in Indo-Pak relations. It is nothing of the sort. Like the IMF, China and Saudi Arabia openings, this initiative comes courtesy General Bajwa whose bear-hug of Indian cricketer Navjot Singh Siddhu at Imran Khan’s oath-taking ceremony in Islamabad put Indian PM Narendra Modi and Punjab state CM Amarinder Singh in a tight corner.” But what if the Pakistani army chief wants to turn over a new leaf? Bajwa belongs to the post-Musharraf and post-Kargil dispensation and is thoroughly disenchanted with Pakistan’s past “trans-oceanic” friends. He could also be sick of the subversive reflex of the army against civilian governments seeking “normalisation” with India. The pattern is so repetitive you can no longer fix the history books without being laughed at. Bharat Karnad in his recent study, Staggering forward: Narendra Modi and India’s Global Ambition notes that soon after he assumed office, General Bajwa asked his officers to read about the ways in which the Indian Army adjusted to the democratic Indian polity. (How did Karnad privy to what Bajwa said to his officers? If this was let out by the army chief or the ISPR then it is clear that this was a PR exercise to show Bajwa as a different army chief to the largely international audience)

Karnad also favours going back to the initiative of General Pervez Musharraf — now ironically facing a trial for treason in Pakistan. Musharraf offered a “compromise on Kashmir which would have formalised the LoC as international border, and afforded Pakistan the fig-leaf of the omission to ‘oversee’ along with India the affairs of the erstwhile princely state of Kashmir (It was not just a fig-leaf.Pakistan would have essentially got a say on everything that could or could not be done in J&K. If India did not agree with Pakistan's pervasive role and an essential veto it would be breaking its agreement and would give Pakistan the convenient option of not agreeing to LOC as the border and harp back on its claim to entire J&K. Also it gave Pakistani kashmiris the right to enter J&K without any restrictions. What would have prevented pakistani punjabis from entering india under the garb of a kashmiri and then moving to rest of India?) Had that agreement been approved by Manmohan Singh, India could in the present day have exercised a veto over the CPEC passing through Gilgit and Baltistan.” (Not neccassary Pakistan dos not honor any agreement and Simla agreement is proof of that)

Imran Khan is talking of trade and investment with India. Everybody knows it means free trade, free movement and Indian investments in Pakistan. Who else but post-Nehruvian capitalist Narendra Modi would comprehend the significance of this kind of thinking? Khan is religious like Modi but is hounded by the mullahs (Nope he is himself a rabid Mullah when it comes to anything with india and is dependent on the Mullah/army to cling to power). Modi too is letting the BJP-RSS combine spread Hindutva that frightens non-Hindus and secularists in India and delays his economic agenda.(Equal-Equalitis, economically India has outgrown pakistan ability to be an hindrance and nuisance and its GDP is growing at 7.5% , thank you)

For Pakistan, “talks” should aim at “normalisation” rather than “Kashmir” if it wants to avoid a deadlock while its economy is belly-up and India can afford to sit pretty. Khan will respond to an opening-up of the Lahore border, where the two armies currently indulge in a farcical pantomime of attacking each other. All this boils down to the initiation of “connectivity” that Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh introduced as a theme at SAARC. India’s inability to live normally with its neighbours is frequently acknowledged (What nonsense India shares an open border with Nepal and Bhutan and its relations with Bangladesh, Afghanistan and Srilanka is strong), but now an economically powerful India needs to return to SAARC instead of scuttling it (So India is scuttling SAARC - Really?). According to Karnad: “The Modi government may not acknowledge this, but crafting good relations with Pakistan is the fundamental building block of a truly peaceful and economically integrated extended sub-region, one that is slugged into the Indian economy which, thus enlarged, can become the driver of economic prosperity and the kernel around which a loose collective security arrangement can over time grow to protect it.” (Again quotes Karnad - How does Karnad propose India builds good relations with pakistan? Does Karnad even know that building relations with pakistan means agreeing to everything that it wants?)

Khaled Ahmed is considered as a reasonable and sane pakistani journalist. But this veener comes of easily when it comes to India-pak equations and everything is fair game - from selectively quoting anti modi authors to propounding falsehoods and trying to find needless equal-equal equivalent in India for anything negative that pakistan has.

chetak
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby chetak » 12 Jan 2019 22:31

the chenab plan of the pakis give the clearest indication of their true intentions.

no paki overture towards India is ever done without the unsavory lurking of the hans in the background and the amerikis slyly skulking about in the very same neighborhood. both have vital interests to protect and both are puppet masters.

the gwadar strategy of the hans HAS TO SUCCEED.

Without gwadar, their growth plans are stifled because they are unable to truly project the power required in areas vital to them. the long term presence of the amerikis, europeans and the britshits in the gulf region is no mere happenstance and nor is russia's hold on syria.


The Neelam Plan

June 20, 2003

You've started hearing this constant nag of something called the Chenab plan to solve the Kashmir imbroglio.

In its essence, it is a plan being sponsored by Islamist extremists from Pakistan and some of their friends in the US. This generous 'Pakistan keeps whatever it has, but let's negotiate over what India keeps' plan aims to give all of the Indian Kashmir valley independence, while letting Pakistan keep all the territories it now illegally and forcefully occupies.

In other words, this is the same kind of odious thinking that has led to the ethnic cleansing of all minorities from Pakistan -- Kashmiri Muslims cannot live with the infidels, hence they have to cleanse their territory and must make it a different country. You might prefer the more politically correct rendition -- division along ethnic lines -- but make no mistake about its intent.

Unfortunately, it would seem this jihadi Islamist plan has gathered support within some US circles. Saleem Shehzad seems to confirm this report in Asia Times. 'Sources in the Foreign Office familiar with the agenda say that key decisions likely to be agreed on by Musharraf and Bush at Camp David include the following: A clear road map for resolution of the Kashmir conflict in which the "Chanab" formula, which envisages the division of Kashmir along religious lines, is likely to be adopted. Thus, the Muslim-majority areas would be allowed to join Pakistan, while the areas where Hindus and Buddhists are in the majority would remain with India.'

The reason for such an obnoxious plan seeing the light of day?

Simple. India has never bothered to propose anything better. Pakistan, you see, has consistently defined the Kashmir imbroglio over the last 57 years, they have defined the problem, they have defined the issues, they have taken a lead in actions and they now are defining the solution.

Starting with canards like 800,000 Indian soldiers deployed in Kashmir, to the rancid 'indigenous freedom fighters' -- they have always defined the issues; not us. The Chenab formula is just another step in this direction.

While we Indians have excelled at criticizing anything and everything, and even made grandiose empty statements like 'let the talks begin with PoK' or 'let's take over Lahore,' we've never bothered to propose any rational plan that would work in India's interests.

Where are the superior ideas, the better solutions and focused strategic actions?

They don't exist -- only the vacuous flatulence of the extreme right and whimpering connivance of the anarchists accentuate this void.

So, here's a potential starting point -- I'll call it the Neelam plan, as suggested by some friends at Bharat-Rakshak.

Background

First, what is the Neelam valley? It is a 144 km long bow-shaped deeply forested region that makes up much of what Pakistanis call Azad Kashmir. The Neelam River enters Pakistan from India in the Gurais sector of the Line of Control, and then runs west till it meets the Jhelum north of Muzzafarabad.

The mighty Neelam River cuts a breathtakingly beautiful furrow in the land -- the Neelam valley; the valley of death and the valley of hatred. This valley and the region around it are infested with every kind of terrorist vermin that Pakistanis have been able to rustle up, with the buying power of their extortion, drug-running and charity money.

So, when you think Neelam valley, think about 4-year-old Suraj from Nadimarg, who was shot and killed in his mother's arms; think of Sharifa Bi of Mandi, who was first set on fire and subsequently had these flames extinguished, forcing her to die in slow agonizing pain. If there's ever a terrorist brutality in Kashmir, you can bet that the perpetrators were trained, launched or passed through this valley of death.

Second, some description of what's happening in the region called Northern Areas. Simply put, what we call PoK, they call 'Azad Kashmir' and Northern Areas. The Northern Areas consist of the Gilgit and Baltistan districts of Jammu and Kashmir. The natives of Gilgit Baltistan are the most oppressed people in the entire Indian sub-continent. They have no economic development, have been occupied by Pakistani Punjabis who ill-treat them, no constitution and few, if any human rights. Unlike the people of J&K, who we have treated with special privileges like Article 370, extreme government charity and now even reservations in colleges, the people of Gilgit and Baltistan are truly under brutal occupation.

In fact, our friendly neighborhood dictator Musharraf, first rose to fame in 1988 by massacring people in this region to put down a revolt, with the able help of a then unknown fanatic -- Osama Bin Laden. But, that is another story.

Why don't we know all this about Gilgit/Baltistan? Because depending upon who is in power, our foreign ministry has either been hugging the terrorists or making plans to capture Lahore.

The Plan

While the Chenab plan is based on the bigoted principles of 'division along ethnic lines,' the Neelam plan is focused on clamping down on terrorism and prevention of religious clashes in India. Clearly, these principles only apply to India, since terrorism is revered as freedom-fighting in Pakistan and other religions have mysteriously disappeared (from 20% to about 3% in 5 decades) from the land of the pure. Unlike the Chenab plan, which does nobody any good apart from a few hallucinating generals at GHQ at Rawalpindi, the Neelam plan actually has a sound basis, namely:

Artificial countries based on religion alone are a hassle -- Britain has already tried that with the creation of Pakistan -- been there, done that; doesn't quite work.
Any plan that does not explicitly take into account US strategic interests in the area will become road-kill -- so ensure easy US access to the Chinese border.

Water is the biggest strategic issue in the subcontinent -- talk about it, don't hide it, avoid the next war.

Terrorism and not the over-hyped repression of the people of Kashmir will cause the next nuclear war -- so, address it.

There are 5 basic principles and 5 associated actions that constitute the Neelam plan:

First, the absorption of integrated areas. India has demonstrated through its fair elections of last year, the enormous dollars spent in economic development ($5 billion) in Kashmir and the special attempts at integration such as reservation in out-of-state colleges, that J&K is well on its way to full-fledged integration with India.

For better results, arcane constitutional artifacts, such as Article 370 need to be done away with. Improved industrial investment will follow.

Pakistan has never managed to integrate any part of its country, let alone PoK. A vague case may be made that what they call 'Azad' Kashmir has been integrated as an armed camp, but this should be subject to LoC alterations, as described below.

Second, freedom for the oppressed. The brutally oppressed people of Gilgit and Baltistan have faced complete abrogation of their constitutional and human rights, with hardly any economic development for the last 55 years. Their lands have seen murderous occupation and their standard of living makes the sub-Saharan Africans feel mighty privileged.

According to the Neelam plan, the Northern areas (Gilgit and Baltistan) will become a free country and Pakistani garrisons currently encamped there, will have to depart. Naturally, the Pakistani Punjabis currently usurping people's rights in this land, will immediately become illegal aliens and over a period of time, will have to obtain appropriate work visas to remain there.

Both India and Pakistan need to officially obtain transit rights through this land. This will bring about a demilitarization of the Deosai Plain and thus effect a natural stabilization in places like Siachen, Kargil and Drass.

From the perspective of the main interlocutor, the US, direct access to the Deosai plains could be a strategic coup in its oncoming superpower battles with China. There possibly is no better strategic location for US forces in the northern regions of South Asia -- certainly, far better than being located in the Kashmir valley. All this comes with the added benefit of not having to upset relations with a potential strategic partner -- India.

Third, clamping down on terrorism. The only terrorism of consequence in South and Central Asia seems to originate from Pakistan. There are two problems here -- first, the Neelam valley has become the launching pad and terrorism training grounds; second, Pakistan views terrorism as a legitimate instrument of State policy.

For the first problem, the solution is quite clear -- reduce drastically, the scope of the Neelam valley to act as the biggest terrorist training camp in the world. This is achieved by moving the LoC into the Neelam valley and better international mediation. The specific steps are:

1. Move the LoC north of Gurais till it covers the all infiltration routes emerging from the Burzil Pass.

2. Move the LoC in the Kupwara area to enclose the Neelam valley segment north of Muzaffarabad.

3. Move the Haji Pir Pass within India, since it is the entrance point for most terrorists in J&K.

4. Move the LoC South of Poonch closer to New Mirpur, perhaps along the Poonch river, this will drastically reduce terrorist breeding grounds.

5. Have UN troops guard the rest of 'Azad Kashmir.'

6. The independence of Gilgit Baltistan to the north will bring about a closure of terrorist training and coordination camps in Gilgit, Astore, Skardu and the Deosai Plains area.

The second issue of Pakistan using terrorism as State policy is a little more difficult. Here, international lenders in return for monetary aid must ask for intrusive UN monitoring within Pakistan to ensure that the ISI and other groups do not engage in terrorism.

Connecting monetary aid directly to stopping Pakistani terrorism is the only way to ensure that there isn't a terrorism-induced nuclear war in the sub-continent. The IMF has always used this policy to open up markets for the West; so why not use a similar approach to contain the scourge of jihadi terrorism in the country that has been referred to as the 'epicenter of terrorism'?

Fourth, equitable distribution of water. The Indus Water Treaty is inherently inequitable -- it does not take into consideration that India's population is about 8 times that of Pakistan and Pakistan has eliminated or pushed into India almost all of its ethnic minorities since independence. This treaty must be declared invalid and must be renegotiated on the basis of the population balance on either side of the border.

An equitable distribution would imply that India gets around 40% of the waters currently earmarked for Pakistan. Pakistan has so far depended upon India's inability to use its water resources aggressively and as a consequence not developed its water resource infrastructures adequately. Without such re-negotiation, Pakistan may not realize the criticality of doing so on its own -- leading to disaster for Pakistan within this decade.

If this issue is not solved, the Indus Water Treaty, and not Kashmir, will lead to the next nuclear war -- water has already become the most precious resource in India.

Fifth, no one-sided guns to anybody's head. The only hope for the Pakistani economy are transit fees from oil pipelines. These pipelines will remain pipe dreams unless India agrees to be the key destination market for this oil. One of the main reasons for US interest in peace in Kashmir is related to the big dollars that would roll into the pockets into US oil giants if these pipelines do not flow through Iran.

Unfortunately, if these pipelines become reality, Pakistan just obtains a large economic gun to put to India's head. To be fair, any gas pipelines should only be considered if at the same time, India is allowed to build up the infrastructure required to completely stop water to Pakistan. In other words, if Pakistan has the ability to shut off energy supply to India, then India must have the ability to shut off water supply to Pakistan.

No one-way weapons, please.

Plan Summary:

1. Complete and equal integration of J&K into India.
2. Freedom for Northern Areas and removal of all Pakistani garrisons.
3. No international charity for terrorists and permanent clamp down on the valley of death and hatred -- the Neelam valley
a. Incorporate Haji Pir into India;
b. Move the LoC from Gurais to Tithwal northwards until it covers the Neelam valley all the way up to Muzaffarabad
c. Move Naushara LoC to New Mirpur;
d. UN monitoring in 'Azad Kashmir';
4. Renegotiate the Indus Water Treaty according to population distributions.
5. No pipelines through Pakistan without equal water shut off capabilities for India.


Where do we go from here?

Division along ethnic lines is pure bigotry. Even if such a strategy makes some twisted short-term strategic sense for the superpowers of the day, in time such a division will lead to the same kind of problems that Palestine and Pakistan cause today. Thousands and hundreds of thousands will die -- we must therefore learn from the historical mistakes of the British. Why repeat the greatest mistakes of the last century?

Remember, the problem is not Kashmir, it is and has always been terrorism -- just take a look at the hordes of Pakistan-based Talibanis beginning to kill Germans, Afghans and Americans in Afghanistan at regular intervals. Nobody believes that the solution to this problem is to give back Afghanistan to the Taliban. Thus, no problem in Kashmir will be solved by rewarding the jihadi terrorists or the Islamist fanatics. Clamping down on terrorism and preventing it permanently, has to be the basis for any peace in the Indian continent. This is the goal of the Neelam plan and should be the basis of any settlement that is reached.

As I finish this article, there are reports on India being pushed towards the Chenab plan. The main protagonists seem to be Pakistani-Americans with only Pakistani strategic interests at heart. For the sake of India and the rest of the world, I hope that the editors of Kashmir Telegraph are wrong when they say:

'Kashmir Telegraph has reasons to believe -- beyond any shadow of doubt -- that United States is 'arm-twisting' Pakistan -- more specifically, India, in accepting the 'Chenab Plan.' A 'sinister plot', which if America has its way, brings about the division of the Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir on religious lines -- with Muslim-majority areas accorded a quasi-sovereign status. BJP -- the ruling party -- it seems, has all along been clandestinely involved in this sinister plot, which undermines the basis principle -- rejection of the two-nation theory -- on the basis of which India was founded. It is in this context that one must examine the remarks of General Jay Garner, setting December 2004 as the American deadline for resolving the Kashmir issue.'

In the past, India has happily given away precious water of the Indus, the Coco islands, the Tibetan buffer, control of the Haji Pir pass, 90,000 Pakistani PoWs and other strategic advantages without any payback at all. This time, the hope is that our leaders will not give away strategic strangleholds, for minor personal or political gains.

The Neelam plan represents the beginnings of a proposal that represents Indian interests as opposed to placing India in a position of constantly fighting off Pakistani expeditions. Let us at least start here.

Arindam Banerji (arindam_banerji@yahoo.com) took the usual route of going from the IITs, through a PhD in the US, to finally working at sundry research labs. He describes himself as a scientist, entrepreneur, and political thinker on South Asian geo-political issues.

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby chetak » 13 Jan 2019 00:05

@Vips ji

a further clarification to my post above.

An old article but it shows which way the wind was supposed to flow and noble thoughts would flow in the opposite direction, a veritable promise of immortality.

this is the first slice of the salami that the paki army actually and desperately wants from India and India well knows this ploy.

and, as always, the untrustworthy amerikis and the sly, oily hans are lurking in the background.

Does President Musharraf simply want contiguous Muslim areas to fall to Pakistan or is he thinking in military terms, based on a General's view of terrain? Then again, is his mind focussed on the future of India-Pakistan relations when river waters become scarce and water treaties come under pressure? Does he want a line drawn along the Chenab river, making Pakistan safe against any future Indian trespass into waters that belong to Pakistan under the 1960 Indus Waters Treaty? It may not be accidental that the five "parts" or "regions" he has presumably specified are located along the Chenab. But the famous Chenab Formula was the subject of discussion at the "track-two" level talks between the governments of Nawaz Sharif and Atal Bihari Vajpayee in 1999.



many paki (and Indian!!) testimonials are still on fire and they actively seek Modi's ouster and that is also why the jehadis are desperately resettling in many jammu and ladakh districts so just like when India was partitioned, a very considerable number was deliberately left behind which was actively encouraged by our own great brown father..

The Musharraf formula

INDIA AND PAKISTAN

The Musharraf formula

B. MURALIDHAR REDDY
in Islamabad

President Pervez Musharraf's new proposal on Kashmir is a clever one. But apparently it is a logical consequence of the pressures that Pakistan has come under in the aftermath of 9/11.

ON October 29, four days after Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf aired his `radical' plan for the resolution of the Kashmir issue at an Iftar party in Islamabad, the Pakistan Foreign Ministry put out a statement that Gen. Musharraf had not given any proposal for resolving the Kashmir issue but had merely asked the media to conduct a debate on the issue to elicit public opinion. The Foreign Ministry's decision to `clarify' the matter is intriguing on several counts. Who said it was a proposal? India did not even react. The only response it made was that it would not be prudent to hold talks on Kashmir through the media. The international community had merely taken note of the willingness of Musharraf to engage India on Kashmir.

Of course, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) made some noises about the "proposals of Gen. Musharraf" being "totally unacceptable". But very few took note of them. The entire furore was actually in Pakistan. Most of the political parties, religious groups, jehadis and right-wing intellectuals accused Musharraf of doing a U-turn on Kashmir.

Obviously, the Foreign Ministry statement was essentially aimed at the ruffled feathers within Pakistan. But why the Foreign Office spoke on behalf of the President is difficult to comprehend. Well, one explanation could be that Kashmir is an international dispute and therefore it is very much within the jurisdiction of the Foreign Ministry.

Significantly, the statement said that Musharraf had asked the media to carry out a debate to elicit public opinion, which, if conducted in the broad parameters spelt out by him, would bring out "dozens of options, reflecting various shades of public opinion". Are there no better ways of stirring a debate, particularly when in theory there is an elected government, Parliament and other public forums in Pakistan?

Musharraf could not have been unaware of the reaction his comments would generate within the country. Like a commando, he was taking a calculated risk and testing waters. That Musharraf and his managers had gone by a carefully worked-out script was evident from what followed the morning after he aired his comments.

Pakistan Observer, the Islamabad-based pro-Musharraf daily, published on October 27 a front-page regret on the report it carried on the `new' Kashmir proposal of the President. The two-paragraph report gave an insight into the thinking of the managers of Musharraf on the latest Kashmir `formula'. The regret said:

"Secretary to the President, Maj. Gen. Shafaat Ullah, pointed out yesterday some discrepancies in the lead story of Pakistan Observer published on Tuesday about Gen. Musharraf's address at the Iftar dinner.

"The Editor-in-Chief of Pakistan Observer was present at the reception as a guest but as no correspondent of the paper was invited for coverage, the story was woven from the versions of four different news agencies and therefore it got jumbled up. Some expressions conveyed the impression as if [the] President has deviated from the national stand of Pakistan on [the] Kashmir issue. We regret this misrepresentation of the President's views on such a sensitive subject."

The very fact that a military officer of the rank of Major General should call up the management of a friendly news daily and seek a clarification that Musharraf had not deviated from the "national stand of Pakistan on Kashmir" is amazing, to say the least. It is Musharraf who has been voicing, for almost a year now, the need for India and Pakistan to move away from their "maximalist and rigid" postures on Kashmir. He presented his new formula as a "food for thought" to the editors of major dailies as a demonstration of Pakistan's willingness to show flexibility.

Barring the ruling combine propped up by the military, political parties of all hues and civil society see the new formula as a U-turn on the traditional Kashmir policy. A small minority has actually hailed it as a response to the changed ground realities. A mere glance at the proposal is enough to label it as completely new thinking on the part of the Pakistani establishment vis-�-vis its Kashmir policy since 1947. The stated position of Pakistan has been that United Nations' resolutions on Kashmir should be implemented and that Kashmiris should be given an opportunity to decide whether they would like to be part of India or Pakistan.

In contrast, the plan unveiled by Musharraf envisages the treatment of Jammu and Kashmir as seven distinct regions. According to him, two of these are under the control of Pakistan (the Northern Areas and Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir (POK), which is referred to as Azad Kashmir in Pakistan) while the remaining five are with India.

The so-called proposal of Musharraf is full of holes and contradictions. The widely held view is that the Jammu and Kashmir territory held by India has three provinces: Jammu, the Kashmir Valley and Ladakh. But Musharraf seems to base his calculation on religious, ethnic and geographical terms - Ladakh (the Islamic part between the Himalayas and the Indus), Kargil/Dras (Muslim), Poonch (Muslim, contiguous with Azad Kashmir), Jammu (Muslim-majority districts) and the Valley (Muslim).

Does President Musharraf simply want contiguous Muslim areas to fall to Pakistan or is he thinking in military terms, based on a General's view of terrain? [b]Then again, is his mind focussed on the future of India-Pakistan relations when river waters become scarce and water treaties come under pressure? Does he want a line drawn along the Chenab river, making Pakistan safe against any future Indian trespass into waters that belong to Pakistan under the 1960 Indus Waters Treaty? It may not be accidental that the five "parts" or "regions" he has presumably specified are located along the Chenab. But the famous Chenab Formula was the subject of discussion at the "track-two" level talks between the governments of Nawaz Sharif and Atal Bihari Vajpayee in 1999.

The Chenab Formula seeks to divide Kashmir along the river Chenab, which flows down from Kashmir into Punjab, separating the Muslim-majority areas from the Hindu and Buddhist-dominated ones. The river flows through the mountainous areas of Doda, Ramban, Surukot, Salat, Reasi and Akhnoor and enters Punjab (Pakistan) at Head Marala. India has built the Salal dam on it under the Indus Water Treaty. The Kashmir Valley has a 98 per cent Muslim population; out of the six districts of Jammu province almost three Muslim-majority districts fall on the right bank of the Chenab and will fall to Pakistan if the river is made the new boundary. According to some Pakistani experts, if the Chenab Formula is accepted, 80 per cent of the territory of the original State, including POK and the Northern Areas, will become part of Pakistan.

The formula falls flat on just one fundamental count. The division of Jammu and Kashmir is anathema to the people of the State on either side. No Kashmiri group - within or outside the pale of parliamentary politics - has ever advocated the concept. In fact, various groups have called for the re-unification of the erstwhile princely state.

Musharraf did make it a point to mention that India was not ready to accept a religion-based solution and sought to sell his formula "in geographical terms". However, as he himself said, it all amounted to the same. "The beauty of these regions is such that they are still religion-based even if we consider them geographically," he maintained.

Curiously, there was no reference by Musharraf to the huge part of Kashmir conceded by Pakistan to China. In the run-up to the Agra Summit, Musharraf had said that as and when the Kashmir issue was to be settled, the territory under the control of China would also be considered a part of the deal.

Musharraf's contention that India has refused to hold a plebiscite in Kashmir as per U.N. resolutions and that Pakistan was not ready to accept the Line of Control (LoC) as a permanent border are not entirely correct. The Indian position has been that Pakistan did not fulfil the terms specified in the U.N. resolutions to create conditions for ascertaining the wishes of the people of Jammu and Kashmir, and that over the years the U.N. resolutions had become irrelevant. Even as he talked about seven "regions" in Jammu and Kashmir, Musharraf listed three specific steps that India and Pakistan should take. First, identify the region at stake. Second, demilitarise it. Third, change its status. The General suggested that there were many options that could then be considered, and legal experts on both sides could then look at the pros and cons of ideas for joint control, U.N. mandates, condominiums, and so on.

Musharraf said Pakistan had proposed the `demilitarisation' of Kashmir and if India asked Pakistan to do likewise in POK, it would oblige. However he skipped a fundamental issue raised by former Prime Minister Inder Kumar Gujral during his recent visit to Pakistan. In response to questions on the presence of security forces in Kashmir, Gujral said: "You should ask as to why in the first place India has mobilised forces. The forces in Kashmir are certainly not having a picnic."

What did prompt Musharraf to go public with his proposal at a juncture when dialogue with India was in progress? The new proposal seems to be a logical consequence of the fallout of 9/11. Musharraf was forced to do a U-turn on Afghanistan and abandon the Taliban after the twin towers in New York came down crashing on September 11, 2001. The challenges Pakistan faced from forces opposed to joining the so-called United States-led coalition against terrorism have triggered a debate within Pakistan on the need for a re-think vis-�-vis Kashmir.

Mainstream political forces and a section of civil society are apprehensive of the damage that fundamentalist forces - which were used in Afghanistan in the past and are being used in Kashmir by the state apparatus - can cause to Pakistani society itself. However, it is still not clear if the military has taken note of this. After all, if the Kashmir issue were resolved tomorrow, would the Pakistan Army continue to have monopoly on all matters involving the country?

However, scholars such as Hasan Askar Rizvi say that the Pakistan military has over the years acquired tremendous stakes in the economy of the country. Enmity with India no longer suits its business interests. There is little doubt that the military's grip on all aspects of public and private activity in the country has grown tremendously strong in the last five years that Musharraf has been in charge.[/b]

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby SBajwa » 13 Jan 2019 14:45


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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Vips » 13 Jan 2019 23:29

Cricket:Australia refuse to tour Pakistan.

Cricket Australia have reportedly refused to tour Pakistan in March this year, citing security concerns.

According to Sydney Morning Herald, Australia have decided not to visit Pakistan during the upcoming five-match ODI series and have informed the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) about this decision, in early January.


“At this stage, from an Australia team perspective, we are not contemplating moving our current bilateral-tour arrangements from taking on Pakistan in the UAE, when they host the next series,” a CA spokesperson said. “But we do remain open to the idea of playing in the country again (AOA - Lollipop from Australia). We formally advised the PCB of this position in early January.”

The spokesperson further said that they will continue to monitor the security situation in Pakistan but the safety of their players is their number one priority. (In other words pakisstan is an unsafe country) :rotfl:

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Vips » 14 Jan 2019 19:29

Poliovirus detected in sewage of eight major cities.

Traces of the poliovirus have been found in the sewage water of major cities including Karachi, Peshawar, Bannu, Lahore, Rawalpindi, Qilla Abdullah, Pishin and Quetta.


New commercial for Pakistan: Unbelievable Pakistan - Come have a blast (literally) and if you survive carry our gift for life with you. :lol:

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Kashi » 14 Jan 2019 19:39

^That link directs to completely different content.

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 14 Jan 2019 19:44

Vips wrote:Poliovirus detected in sewage of eight major cities.

Traces of the poliovirus have been found in the sewage water of major cities including Karachi, Peshawar, Bannu, Lahore, Rawalpindi, Qilla Abdullah, Pishin and Quetta.


New commercial for Pakistan: Unbelievable Pakistan - Come have a blast (literally) and if you survive carry our gift for life with you. :lol:

doesnt polio only affect kids? and anyways kids will be given polio vaccination in every other country, except the land of pure

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby souravB » 14 Jan 2019 20:49

Vips wrote:Poliovirus detected in sewage of eight major cities.

Traces of the poliovirus have been found in the sewage water of major cities including Karachi, Peshawar, Bannu, Lahore, Rawalpindi, Qilla Abdullah, Pishin and Quetta.


New commercial for Pakistan: Unbelievable Pakistan - Come have a blast (literally) and if you survive carry our gift for life with you. :lol:

Thij ij vary bad. farst RAA aad kufr rog and than ju laaf. Now gernail saab haj two fayar tha mijjile heemself becauje he drink mineral water onli.

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Vips » 14 Jan 2019 22:15


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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby anupmisra » 15 Jan 2019 02:43

Vips wrote:Traces of the poliovirus have been found in the sewage water of major cities including Karachi, Peshawar, Bannu, Lahore, Rawalpindi, Qilla Abdullah, Pishin and Quetta.


These two "settlements" in NWFP are now "major cities"?

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Peregrine » 15 Jan 2019 06:39

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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Vikas » 15 Jan 2019 13:46

One more prick to puncture paki baloon.

TechJuice.Pk, a leading Pakistani tech publication published a story last week claiming that Pakistani startups raised $341 million in 2018. The article was shared by many in the Pakistani startup ecosystem. It is perhaps being seen as acknowledgment of the fact that the tech ecosystem in Pakistan has come a long way and is finally attracting VC money. That might very well be true. As TechJuice in this piece points out, we are finally seeing a lot of activity.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Pakistani ecosystem may have been showing some positive signs lately but it’s not even close to reaching $300 million in annual VC deals anytime soon.
<snip> <snip>...
If you remove all these big investments that shouldn’t have been included in the first place, you’re left with maybe ~$30 million which seems like the actual amount of investment raised by Pakistani “startups”.


A single mid size startup raises more money than whole of Paki startup ecosystem put together.

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Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Peregrine » 15 Jan 2019 18:31

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Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Peregrine » 15 Jan 2019 19:57

Bill for delisting Pakistan as major ally tabled in US Congress

WASHINGTON: A bill seeking to remove Pakistan from a list of America’s major non-Nato allies has been introduced in the US Congress, even though the Trump administration enhances its contacts with Islamabad in its pursuit of a peaceful end to the Afghan war.

The resolution — introduced by Congressman Andy Biggs who, like the Trump administration, is a Republican — sets new conditions for future re-designation.

Also read: Pak-US ties should not be viewed only through Afghan or Indian lens, says FM Qureshi

If a US president desires to put Pakistan back on the list, he or she will have to certify to Congress that Pakistan continues to conduct military operations that are contributing to significantly disrupting the “safe haven and freedom of movement” of the Haqqani Network in the country.

Trump administration unlikely to support move

The president also has to certify that Pakistan has shown progress in arresting and prosecuting Haqqani Network’s senior leaders and mid-level operatives.

Take a look: Pakistan has given us nothing but lies and deceit, says US President Donald Trump

The re-designation will require another certification from Congress that Pakistan has taken steps to demonstrate its commitment to preventing the Haqqani Network from using any Pakistani territory as a safe haven and that Pakistan actively cooperates with Afghanistan to restrict the movement of militants along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.

Known as Resolution H.R. 73, the bill has been sent to the House Foreign Affairs Committee for necessary action.

Mr Biggs, a second-term legislator, has no cosponsor and his move will need a strong support from the Trump administration and the Democratic Party to pass a House dominated by the Democrats.

In recent statements, President Donald Trump has clearly expressed his desire to withdraw at least half of the 14,000 US still stationed in Afghanistan.

Senior Democrats — both in and outside Congress — have also said that the United States cannot remain involved in these apparently unending wars in Afghanistan and Syria.

But before an ultimate withdrawal from Afghanistan, the Trump administration wants to ensure that the pullout does not lead to the collapse of the US-backed Afghan government in Kabul.

To achieve this target, the US has initiated a series of dialogues with the Taliban leadership, hoping to make them participate in a future set-up in Kabul as partners of the Afghan government.

The fourth round of US-Taliban talks, which was to be held last week either in Riyadh or Doha, had to be postponed after Taliban refused to sit with Kabul’s representatives.

The Trump administration wants Afghanistan’s neighbours, particularly Pakistan, to use their influence to persuade the Taliban to stay engaged and accept the Kabul government. Washington believes that Islamabad can play a key role in making this possible.

Last week, the US once again sent its special envoy for Afghanistan to the region with a task to convince Pakistan, India and China to work together to ensure the success of the Afghan peace initiative.

It is unlikely that the Trump administration would encourage any move to further isolate Pakistan in the present circumstances.

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Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Peregrine » 15 Jan 2019 20:12

Rising xenophobia - Dr Niaz Murtaza

XENOPHOBIA is unfounded fear of foreigners. It often results in actions against them that defy logic. It occurs globally, with both developing and developed countries experiencing it. And that seems like an incomplete list.

But there is a difference between ordinary people and the state exhibiting xenophobia. The former causes much damage too, like attacks on foreigners. But given the huge powers that states enjoy, state xenophobia can cause much greater harm to foreigners as they adopt misplaced policies to eliminate external threats. The US state xenophobia under Trump harms both foreigners and US interests.

Also read: The age of xenophobia

Xenophobia is not new to Pakistani society. But its state institutions have often adopted xenophobic policies, especially in the last few months. Pakistan clearly faces external threats and espionage, like most states globally. But it also faces major opportunities in interacting externally, including with those states from which it experiences threats. Smart states balance the threats and opportunities by basing concerns about foreigners on strong evidence and adopting calibrated responses that minimise the threats but not the opportunities. Unfortunately, such smart analysis seems missing from our responses in many cases.

Only recently, Pakistan expelled 18 INGOs without assigning any specific reasons on a case-by-case basis. The backlash against INGOs originates from the 2011 allegations that one INGO supported Shakeel Afridi in conducting a vaccination campaign to track down Osama bin Laden. No proof was presented of the INGO’s role. The non-calibrated nature of the action against INGOs can be gauged by the fact that this particular INGO has not been expelled but 18 others having nothing to do with that incident have been.

Explore: Pressure on INGOs

The official press release vaguely refers to a failure to meet registration requirements and involvement in unauthorised activities. But apparently, none of the expelled INGOs were given any specific reasons about where they went wrong. Write-ups supporting the expulsion also mention vague ‘reasons’, such as their involvement in surveys and geo-tagging. These are standard development-sector practices followed globally by INGOs and even well-equipped state agencies. Expulsion is an extreme step to be taken only if there is concrete proof that an INGO was involved in illegal practices. So far, there is little proof that such a rule of law-based outlook was employed.

Finally, there is the provision that all expelled INGOs can reapply after six months. Why would the state entertain their applications just after six months if solid proof of wrongdoing by them was found? By expelling them on flimsy grounds, we have unnecessarily lost millions of dollars of funding, thousands of jobs and international repute.

Deeming dual citizens a security risk, a recent court verdict has asked the state to develop laws to restrict their hiring in the bureaucracy. Legal minds ask if it is the job of courts to identify security risks. But even if the executive makes such a review, it should be based on solid proof.

Dual nationality: a conflict of interest for bureaucrats?

Dual citizens have been working in the bureaucracy for several decades. How many incidents have there been of them facilitating foreign states at the expense of Pakistan? Foreign states can easily bribe willing ordinary Pakistani citizens to do so despite the ban. Expat Pakistanis with their wealth, education and goodwill for Pakistan are an asset. Both the executive and courts frequently appeal to them to donate funds in times of financial crunch.

Another verdict has declared Indian content on TV a cultural threat. Again, some legal minds ask whether the judiciary should be analysing cultural threats. And how would even the executive define and measure cultural threat? The frequency of objectionable scenes in Indian movies has increased with time. But that is an issue more with English movies, and simple censorship of specific offensive scenes rather than a blanket ban on all Indian content would seem a more calibrated response.

Rational states recognise that ordinary families and communities are quite capable of shielding impressionable young minds from cultural exposures they deem harmful and that the blunt use of state bans in the cultural arena is unnecessary. There is clearly a high demand for Indian stuff in Pakistan and vice versa. So, similarly, the Indian ban on Pakistani artists is highly deplorable.

State policies are expected to be based on careful analysis and facts. When states also start acting like impulsive citizens, the space for rationality and tolerance reduces fast in the country. While world powers have deplorably contributed to isolating Pakistan, our own ill-conceived reactions are making us even more isolated and paranoid.

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Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Peregrine » 15 Jan 2019 20:21

Aleema says made fortune through inherited property, sewing machines

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Imran Khan’s sister Aleema Khanum appeared in the Supreme Court on Monday in a case concerning the offshore properties owned by Pakistanis. Aleema is named as one of the benamidars of a property in the United Arab Emirates (UAE). The court had ordered her to appear in person.

In her very first statement shared with the media after disclosure about her New Jersey property, Aleema Khan maintained that her foreign assets had nothing to do with the charity funding. Her message to the media reads as, “A section of the media has tried to insinuate that the assets owned by me have been obtained unlawfully or siphoned off from charities given to Shaukat Khanum Memorial Trust. This is patently false and rejected. SKMT was established as a charitable hospital in the memory of my late mother and its accounts are audited by internationally well-known firms. As for the properties, they were acquired through known and lawfully earned income arising out of my business and my husband's assets. I have been a successful entrepreneur engaged in the textile export business for over 20 years. My textile export business has represented international buyers and assisted Pakistani textile mills in business development, procuring orders which have averaged over Rs2 billion worth of exports yearly from Pakistan and contributed to the economy.

“The Dubai property was acquired through an investment of Rs3 crore which was sent through banking channels along with a loan obtained from a bank in Dubai.

“The property in New Jersey was acquired through an investment of Rs1.4 crore through banking channels along with a loan obtained from a bank in the United States. This joint property was purchased for business purposes. The property was declared and applicable tax paid under the law.

“It pains me that an entirely false, slanderous and malicious campaign has been launched to suggest any link between my properties and my volunteer work for charities to which I have dedicated my life.”

Meanwhile, a three-member bench of the apex court, headed by Chief Justice of Pakistan Justice Mian Saqib Nisar, heard the case. An audit member of the Federal Bureau of Revenue (FBR) and FIA Director General Basheer Memon were among the officials present in the court.

The chief justice reprimanded the FBR auditor for the eye-wash investigation into the case of 44 politicians and their benamidars having offshore properties. The FBR representative informed the apex court that the FIA had provided data of 895 people and 1,365 properties. He said around 360 people had benefited from the government’s tax amnesty scheme to protect 484 properties. He further submitted that Rs340 million had so far been recovered, while another Rs768 million was expected to be recovered soon.

The CJP remarked that the case progress had not impressed him. "When you have all the data, you should have taken action within hours. Matter would never have been taken up if the court had not taken notice,” he observed. The FBR representative submitted that 157 people had not yet come forward and that the FBR had written to the Dubai authorities for their data.

Another report submitted by the FIA to the court claimed that 1,211 Pakistani citizens owned 2,154 properties in the UAE. It revealed that another 345 people had been served notices. The report further said 61 people remained unidentified, five had died, 10 were uncooperative, while one was absconding.

According to the report, 413 people benefited from the tax amnesty scheme that ended in August last year, while 167 people had declared their properties to the FBR. It further stated that 79 people had declared their properties in the tax returns filed with the FBR, while 97 people had disowned their properties in the UAE. Previously, the FIA had identified 1,115 people owning properties in the UAE.

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ArjunPandit
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Re: Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 15 Jan 2019 20:29

^regarding proof: Paki jurisprudence 101-
Nationality CrimeLocation ProofReqmts (as of Jan 2019)
Paki Pakistan Depends on most recent social/political/mil status
Indian Pakistan Not required
Paki India No proof is enough. Is the person pakistani???
Paki Saudi/3.5 fathers Proof Not required, there are enough pakis
Saud paki Not required, they are not at fault, some undercover payments
US Pakistan $$$$
Chin Pakistani process ASAP

Of course these are dependent on time and money involved

Peregrine
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Terroristan - October 8, 2018

Postby Peregrine » 16 Jan 2019 04:41

Praetorian penury

Pakistan’s army is to blame for the poverty of the country’s 208m citizens

It has fostered the paranoia and extremism that hold the country back

It has for so long been a country of such unmet potential that the scale of Pakistan’s dereliction towards its people is easily forgotten. Yet on every measure of progress, Pakistanis fare atrociously. More than 20m children are deprived of school. Less than 30% of women are employed. Exports have grown at a fifth of the rate in Bangladesh and India over the past 20 years. And now the ambitions of the new government under Imran Khan, who at least acknowledges his country’s problems (see Briefing), are thwarted by a balance-of-payments crisis. If Mr Khan gets an imf bail-out, it will be Pakistan’s 22nd.The persistence of poverty and maladministration, and the instability they foster, is a disaster for the world’s sixth-most-populous country. Thanks to its nuclear weapons and plentiful religious zealots, it poses a danger for the world, too.

Many, including Mr Khan, blame venal politicians for Pakistan’s problems. Others argue that Pakistan sits in a uniquely hostile part of the world, between war-torn Afghanistan and implacable India. Both these woes are used to justify the power of the armed forces. Yet the army’s pre-eminence is precisely what lies at the heart of Pakistan’s troubles. The army lords it over civilian politicians. Last year it helped cast out the previous prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, and engineer Mr Khan’s rise (as it once did Mr Sharif’s).

Since the founding of Pakistan in 1947, the army has not just defended state ideology but defined it, in two destructive ways. The country exists to safeguard Islam, not a tolerant, prosperous citizenry. And the army, believing the country to be surrounded by enemies, promotes a doctrine of persecution and paranoia.

The effects are dire. Religiosity has bred an extremism that at times has looked like tearing Pakistan apart. The state backed those who took up arms in the name of Islam. Although they initially waged war on Pakistan’s perceived enemies, before long they began to wreak havoc at home. Some 60,000 Pakistanis have died at the hands of militants, most of whom come under the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (ttp). The army at last moved against them following an appalling school massacre in 2014. Yet even today it shelters violent groups it finds useful. Some leaders of the Afghan Taliban reside in Quetta. The presumed instigator of a series of attacks in Mumbai in 2008, which killed 174, remains a free man.

Melding religion and state has other costs, including the harsh suppression of local identities—hence long-running insurgencies in Baloch and Pushtun areas. Religious minorities, such as the Ahmadis, are cruelly persecuted. As for the paranoia, the army is no more the state’s glorious guardian than India is the implacable foe. Of the four wars between the two countries, all of which Pakistan lost, India launched only one, in 1971—to put an end to the genocide Pakistan was unleashing in what became Bangladesh. Even if politicking before a coming general election obscures it, development interests India more than picking fights.

The paranoid doctrine helps the armed forces commandeer resources. More money goes to them than on development. Worse, it has bred a habit of geopolitical blackmail: help us financially or we might add to your perils in a very dangerous part of the world. This is at the root of Pakistan’s addiction to aid, despite its prickly nationalism. The latest iteration of this is China’s $60bn investment in roads, railways, power plants and ports, known as the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (cpec). The fantasy that, without other transformations, prosperity can be brought in from outside is underscored by cpec’s transport links. Without an opening to India, they will never fulfil their potential. But the army blocks any rapprochement.

Mr Khan’s government can do much to improve things. It should increase its tax take by clamping down on evasion, give independence to the monetary authority and unify the official and black-market exchange rates. Above all, it should seek to boost competitiveness and integrate Pakistan’s economy with the world’s. All that can raise growth.

Yet the challenge is so much greater. By mid-century, Pakistan’s population will have increased by half. Only sizzling rates of economic growth can guarantee Pakistanis a decent life, and that demands profound change in how the economy works, people are taught and welfare is conceived. Failing so many, in contrast, really will be felt beyond the country’s borders.

Transformation depends on Pakistan doing away with the state’s twin props of religion and paranoia—and with them the army’s power. Mr Khan is not obviously the catalyst for radical change. But he must recognise the problem. He has made a start by standing up to demagogues baying for the death of Asia Bibi, a Christian labourer falsely accused of blasphemy.

However, wholesale reform is beyond the reach of any one individual, including the prime minister. Many politicians, businesspeople, intellectuals, journalists and even whisky-swilling generals would far rather a more secular Pakistan. They should speak out. Yes, for some there are risks, not least to their lives or liberty. But for most—especially if they act together—the elites have nothing to lose but their hypocrisy.

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